How do I convert videos to DVD without too much quality loss?

[Jonava]

Hello
I have several videos in AVI, MP4 and other formats that want to convert to DVD-5 format. I'm using the software tool ConverXtoDVD version 7 64 bits.

I want the conversions to be a 1 to 1 in terms of quality, without loss, or at least keep it down to a minimum. How do I do it?

DVD-5 have 4,7gb of storage. It can store a maximum of 99 videos. The number of videos on the DVD-5 seem to be irrelevant. It does not affect the the video quality. The maximum bit rate of the video/s is 10Mbps. And the ideal is for the video/s not to have more than 120 minutes / 2 hours long. Correct if I'm wrong, please.

If it's just one video, no matter the file container, AVI, MP4, whatever, with less than 4,7gb and less than 120 minutes, probably the quality of the conversion to DVD-5 will be 1 to 1, right? But what about conversions of one or more videos with a total of more than 120 minutes? What should I do in order to keep the original quality?

Here's an example: I have a history television show of 13 episodes, 30 minutes each episode, 6 hours and 30 minutes total, and in AVI format. What should I take into consideration? The time? What will make the quality decrease? Should I convert only a maximum of 120 minutes per DVD-5 to keep the quality 1 to 1?

[Jonava]

I have several videos in AVI, MP4 and in other formats that I want to convert to DVD-5 format. I want the quality of the conversion to be 1 to 1. No quality loss. Or keep it down to a minimum. What and how should I do it? I'm using the software convertXtoDVD version 7 64 bits.

I've read that the DVD-5 can have a maximum of 99 videos stored in it. The maximum video bitrate is 10Mbps. And the ideal is the video/s should not have more than 120 minutes / 2 hours long total. Please, correct if I'm wrong.


Here's an example of what I want to convert:

If it's just one video with less than 4,7gb, less than 120 minutes and less than 10Mbps, probably the conversion will be perfect, 1 to 1, right? But about several videos? I have an old history show, 13 episodes/videos, each 30 minutes long, 6 hours and 30 minutes total, 720x576 resolution and in AVI format. How should I convert it without quality loss? What should I consider? The time?

[davexnet]

1 to 1 ? Conversion to DVD is never technically that becasue the files are being reencoded to DVD spec mpeg2

It's always the running time that affects the potential quality of the result. The quality will fall off quiet dramatically after about 2 hours.
Your 13 episodes @ 30 minutes, consider stretching across 2, or even 3 DVD's

I put 3 90 minutes documentaries about the Titanic on a single DVD but I used AVStoDVD which has some good adjustments for these edge cases

[cholla]

I would split your file into no more that 2 hour legnths.
FFMPEG should be able to do this.
Maybe even use the Clever GUI for FFMPEG.

Then use AVStoDVD as recommended by davexnet to convert to DVD5.

[Jonava]

It's not one single video with 13 chapters. It's 13 videos each with 30 minutes.

The time of the videos being what I should consider first is what I thought too. Even if the video/s has only 500MB, the time is more important when it comes to the quality. Right?

Thanks.

[jagabo]

If your sources aren't already DVD compatible (MPEG 2 encoded with DVD compatible settings) you will have to reencode them. That means a loss of quality. For the least loss put only one hour on a single layer DVD, encoded at ~9600 kbps.

30 minute TV shows are usually about 23 minutes long. That means you are limited to two episodes per DVD. If you can accept more quality loss you can put three or four episodes on a single layer DVD, encoded at lower bitrates (use 2 pass bitrate based encoding). If your sources are low complexity (that is, low noise, low motion, low resolution, etc.) more per DVD may be acceptable.

[cholla]

There is not a "one size fits all answer".
If the video files you have were high quality then you might want to do as jagabo suggested.
It depends on if they are literally 30 minute episodes or as jagabo suggested 23 minutes long.
Or maybe you are not going to edit out commercials if any.
At 500 MB the quality will just be average so I believe 2 hours per DVD will look about the same as what you now have.
Of course there is a codec difference & the .mp4 etc will be better quality based on size than the .mpg .vob (DVD format.
So load 4 in AVStoDVD set it to DVD5.
Don't use a menu unless you really want one. Even if you do you may want to skip a menu on the first try.
Then view the results. That's the best test.

[Jonava]

If I just copy the video files, AVI, MP4 or other formats, to a DVD, there will be no quality loss, right? They will be exactly the same as they were on the HDD of the PC, right?

And also, if I do the conversion to a folder with the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS files and then put inside that folder the original AVI files, convert to ISO and burn it to a DVD, there will no quality loss either, right?

[davexnet]

If you want to create a standard DVD that works in all players, the files have to be encoded to dvd-spec mpeg-2 and authored
to create the VIDEO_TS structure

What you are proposing can certainly be written to disk. If you set it up to write as data.
You can write anything you want that way
But it will not play in a dvd player
https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

[Jonava]

I just wanted to know if another video file stored on the disc, like an AVI file, will degrade the MPEG-2. Yes, I know DVD players don't read AVI, MP4, and other video file formats. Only MPEG-2. Actually, some players do read those files but that's another question. I just want to preserve the original video file on the disc. I'm using DVD M-DISCs. I want to put all my archive on M-DISCs because I don't trust HDDs and SDDs for archive. I have a 4TB HDD and it's giving me problems already. I have 5 MP4 videos of an important seminar that i've bought a few years ago and now 4 of them cannot be rendered. No media player can read them. THey seem to be damaged and cannot be recovered. Now each of those video files have only 1.00MB. And I paied for that seminar!

I convert the video files, with convertXtoDVD, to a folder first, with the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS files inside. Then I put the original video file inside that folder. Then I use ImgBurn to convert that folder to ISO and then I burn it to a DVD-5. I think the original video file has no effect on the converted files (MPEG-2).

[hello_hello]

I think the 10Mbps maximum includes the audio bitrate, but I've not burned a lot of traditional DVDs so I'm not sure.

4.7GB x 1000 = 4700 MB
4700 x 8 = 37600 Mb
37600 / 10 = 3760 seconds
3760 / 60 = 62.667 minutes.

I think my math is okay, so for the maximum bit rate the most you can burn to a DVD-5 is about an hour.
A decent conversion program should calculate the bitrate according to the length of the video, so anything up to about an hour should use the maximum bitrate, and as the length of the video burned to a disc increases the bitrate would be reduced accordingly. For TV shows you might need to burn them onto several discs for maximum quality. Maybe a couple of episodes per disc, depending on how long they are. Something like that.

Keep in mind though... 10Mb/s might be over-kill. It depends how hard the video is to compress (if it's noisy or grainy etc). There's often a point where increasing the bitrate offers very diminishing returns in respect to the perceived quality, but it'll be different for each video.

[hello_hello]

I just wanted to know if another video file stored on the disc, like an AVI file, will degrade the MPEG-2. Yes, I know DVD players don't read AVI, MP4, and other video file formats. Only MPEG-2.

Do you have a Bluray player? Most of them have a USB input for playing video these days, and they'll usually play all the common formats. Almost all TVs made in at least the last few years have a built in media player and USB input too. Maybe a couple of USB sticks might be a better idea, depending on the size of the files.

Burned DVDs degrade over time, but how long they'll remain readable depends on the quality of the disc, how they're stored, and the quality of the burn itself. To be safe you'd want to burn multiple copies, and unless the original files are too large for it to be practical, I'd burn the original videos to DVD as ordinary data files too, so you have a backup of the originals, just in case. That might be a better strategy. Convert the video to standard DVDs for everyday use without worrying too much about the quality, and burn a copy or two of the originals as well.

The source of the video (AVI or MP4 etc) doesn't effect the quality of the re-encoded version itself as such, as ultimately the encoder just gets fed raw un-compressed video to re-encode, so in that respect, where the video came from is irrelevant to the encoder. And of course if you just burn the files to disc as ordinary data files, there'll be no quality loss. Dependent on the type of video inside those files, most Bluray players will play video from a disc when they're burned as data files.

[Jonava]

I think the 10Mbps maximum includes the audio bitrate, but I've not burned a lot of traditional DVDs so I'm not sure.

4.7GB x 1000 = 4700 MB
4700 x 8 = 37600 Mb
37600 / 10 = 3760 seconds
3760 / 60 = 62.667 minutes.

I think my math is okay, so for the maximum bit rate the most you can burn to a DVD-5 is about an hour.
A decent conversion program should calculate the bitrate according to the length of the video, so anything up to about an hour should use the maximum bitrate, and as the length of the video burned to a disc increases the bitrate would be reduced accordingly. For TV shows you might need to burn them onto several discs for maximum quality. Maybe a couple of episodes per disc, depending on how long they are. Something like that.

Keep in mind though... 10Mb/s might be over-kill. It depends how hard the video is to compress (if it's noisy or grainy etc). There's often a point where increasing the bitrate offers very diminishing returns in respect to the perceived quality, but it'll be different for each video.

Thank you very much for your replay.
I've been searching on the internet for an article about how to convert a video to DVD with the best quality but all I can find is articles about the general process of how to convert a video to DVD using a software tool.

I wish there was a software conversion tool that would have some sort of quality check before the conversion begins that would warn the user about the quality of the conversion. Something like: BAD ; GOOD ; EXCELENT ; OVER KILL or whatever when the high bit rate becomes irrelevant. I'm using convertXtoDVD to make the conversions. ConvertXtoDVD doesn't have a quality check and as far as I know there's no software that has it. Do you know any?

I've just made conversion of 4 videos, 25 minutes each and 687 kb/s of overall bit rate. The result of the overall bit rate of the conversion of each video was 5.000 kb/s. Maybe that's too much. But it's not bad at all.

Burned DVDs degrade over time, but how long they'll remain readable depends on the quality of the disc, how they're stored, and the quality of the burn itself. To be safe you'd want to burn multiple copies, and unless the original files are too large for it to be practical, I'd burn the original videos to DVD as ordinary data files too, so you have a backup of the originals, just in case. That might be a better strategy. Convert the video to standard DVDs for everyday use without worrying too much about the quality, and burn a copy or two of the originals as well.

HDDs, SSDs, pen drives, SD cards and regular recordable DVDs are not for archive. They are for work and short term storage. The experts say that they have an average of 5 years of lifespan. I want to archive all the data I have to a special type of recordable disc: the M-DISC. I don't know if you know about it. The recordable layer of the M-DISC is made of stone, not organic diode like the regular recordable discs. The data is engraved, not burned. They have a lifespan of 1000 years. Yes, it is too much time indeed but the idea is that I don't have to worry about my data anymore. Just like books that we don't worry about their longevity. Also, the M-DISC is highly resistant to moisture, heat, light and scratches. So, they're perfect for archive.

I convert first to a folder with the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS files. I put the original video files inside that folder, convert it to ISO and then engrave it to the M-DISC with ImgBurn.

[davexnet]

I think to a certain extent it's a matter of luck. I've got some Office Depot branded
DVD's written almost 20 years ago that are still error free when read back

[Alwyn]

How long will M disk readers be around for?

[Jonava]

How long will M disk readers be around for?

As long as there are people who want it, there's a market for them. Just like paper books that after 2000 years we still have them today. Like I said above, it's not the time of the M-DISC, it's the reliability of it.

[Sharc]

I've just made conversion of 4 videos, 25 minutes each and 687 kb/s of overall bit rate. The result of the overall bit rate of the conversion of each video was 5.000 kb/s. Maybe that's too much. But it's not bad at all.

Bitrate 687kbps? I guess your .avi are DivX aka Mpeg4 Visual encoded. As has been said re-encoding to mpeg2 incurs a quality loss, even at elevated bitrates, unless you use a reputed mpeg2 encoder like CCE or Canopus Procoder (no longer available/supported) or perhaps HCenc. Many DVD authoring tools use ffmpeg's mpeg2 encoder which isn't the best really. Risk is to produce blocking artefacts for example.
I would consider uploading your important video files to a reputed cloud service. Then the data are not only 1:1 preserved but are also pretty safe against buirglary, fire, mechanical damage etc. Maybe you are already using OneDrive or Google Drive or equivalent? Your 13 episodes of 25' each at 687 kbps will not amount to excessive storage space so it should be affordable.

By the way DVDStyler (using ffmpeg as its mpeg2 encoder) spits out a quality warning message when one wants to squeeze too much on a DVD. What is overkill, good, acceptable, bad etc. is pretty much subjective though.
How long will players/drives be available which can read your Stone-M-Discs? 100 years?

[Jonava]

I would consider uploading your important video files to a reputed cloud service. Then the data are not only 1:1 preserved but are also pretty safe against buirglary, fire, mechanical damage etc. Maybe you are already using OneDrive or Google Drive or equivalent? Your 13 episodes of 25' each at 687 kbps will not amount to excessive storage space so it should be affordable.

I don't need and I don't want cloud servers. And I don't trust them either. They are own by questionable corporations. Both home storage and cloud servers are prompt to burglary, fire, mechanical damage, etc. What do you think a server is? HDDs and SSDs. And they are doom to self-destruct within 10 years. And there's nothing you can do about it. It's their nature. With M-DISCs there's no such problems.

How long will players/drives be available which can read your Stone-M-Discs? 100 years?

That is a stupid question. How long will USB ports be available which can read HDDs and SSDs? 100 years? Do you know that a lot of people like vinyls? The quality of the audio is good. As good as CDs. It should be "out dated technology", right? Guess what? It's not. It's up to date.


Another thing:
Just a few days ago I've read someone on the internet that said that people in forums have a bad habit of going off-topic, telling their personal opinion and telling others what to do. And that is you. I opened this topic to ask about how should I convert videos to DVD without too much quality loss. I did not asked about where should I store my data. That is up to me to decide. I did not asked that. If you don't like discs, that's fine with. Non of my business. I want discs whether you like it or not. I have my reasons. I don't trust HDDs and much less SSDs. They will self destruct in 5 to 10 years. I have a 4TB HDD and some of the videos I have there are corrupt. And I cannot recover them anymore. And I paied for them! Also, I don't trust cloud servers either. I don't want them and I don't need them. Actually, I find quite stupid that people give away their data to strangers. To corporations that don't care about your privacy and are selling your data to others and make profit from it. Ridiculous. Like banks too. People store their money in a bank that then loans your money to others without your permission and even have the nerve to charge intererest and in the end, you get nothing. Actually, your money is at risk there. It's ridiculous.

Please, stick to the topic. I asked about how to convert videos to DVD without too much quality loss.

[Sharc]

... I don't want cloud servers.

Fair enough. I didn't and don't tell anyone what he/she has to do. You could have saved your breath for the rest of your yadayada.

[Alwyn]

Please, stick to the topic. I asked about how to convert videos to DVD without too much quality loss.

@Jonava, you need to stick to the topic. You were the one who raised the alleged poor reliability of HDD backup/storage (based on your unwise idea of placing your valuable files on only ONE HDD).

Your analogy of USB ports is flawed. I've seen (and will continue to see until I kick the bucket, I have no doubt) thousands of USB ports. I've yet to see ONE M-Disk.

And to rip into Sharc, who you accused of asking a stupid question and who politely suggested a cloud service for your valuable files, is pretty arrogant, IMO. All you needed to say was "that is not an option for me" but instead you went into a multi-sentence lecture/rant. Don't be surprised if you get no further responses.

[Jonava]

I opened this topic to ask about how to convert videos to DVD without too much quality loss. I did not asked about storage devices.

If you never saw an M-DISC, then simply buy one. It's that simple. The reason why you don't see them in stores it's simply because they are not popular. That is all. In terms of technology, M-DISCs are up to date and they are by far the best storage media available in the market in terms of longevity and reliability. 1000 years of longevity and high resistance agains moisture, heat, scratches, shock and light. You can even leave an M-DISC in the wilderness for one full year exposed to the elements and it will still work. That is how good they are. Simply, there is nothing better than M-DISCs. I strongly advise them to those who want to archive their data. No more worries.

I've seen many people complaining about their HDDs and SSDs stop working and losing their data. I've seen others spending more money on more HDDs and SSDs to have backup copies and redunt copies. I've yet to see ONE person complaining about M-DISCs. The only complain that people might have about the M-DISC is the small storage space they have.

[hello_hello]

According to Wikipedia you don't need a special drive to burn or read Bluray M-Discs, but DVD M-Discs require a burner that specifically supports them, however it appears most drives can read them. It seems they use some sort of glassy carbon data layer that doesn't oxidize, but they still have a dye layer like regular burnable discs. I'm not sure if it's the same dye or a different type.

[Jonava]

According to Wikipedia you don't need a special drive to burn or read Bluray M-Discs, but DVD M-Discs require a burner that specifically supports them, however it appears most drives can read them. It seems they use some sort of glassy carbon data layer that doesn't oxidize, but they still have a dye layer like regular burnable discs. I'm not sure if it's the same dye or a different type.

DVD M-DISCs are compatible with almost all DVD writers. The exceptions are the DVD writers before 2005. There might be exceptions, as usual.

The data layer of the M-DISC is stone, not organic dye. Here's the oficial website: https://www.mdisc.com/

Here's two interviews with one of it's inventors, Barry Lunt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gsS0_-sjEg
https://www.backupwrapup.com/m-disc-founder-explains-how-it-keeps-data-for-1000-years/

I think you can still find oficial PDF files about the M-DISC in Archive.org.

[hello_hello]

Wikipedia describes the recording layer as an "inorganic recording layer", and it says Verbatim use the same "metal oxide inorganic recording layer" used in many of their regular discs, while the M-Disc site describes it as a "stone-like recording layer", but none of that's terribly specific and I'm not motivated enough to research it more.

[Jonava]

Wikipedia describes...

I susggest you should listen to what one of the inventors of the M-Disc has to say about the disc in the interviews instead of reading bullshit wikipedia. The links are above.

... and I'm not motivated enough to research it more.

Then don't. What you want and not want to do is non of my business. You go your way and I go my way.

[hello_hello]

Like the inventors would never put a positive spin on it.

I might have a look later though, out of curiosity. It might be interesting to learn how the laser in a standard burner burns through "stone".

[cholla]

I do not have ConverXtoDVD.
For the clips below I converted two .mp4s that totaled 1 hour 6 minutes I had to DVD format with AVStoDVD.
This is close to the 1 hour for a DVD5 suggested by jagabo.
I then took a clip from each title(both in one DVD VIDEO_TS folder now).I did clips because the whole DVD is 3.61GB.
The clips were extracted with ffmpeg.
Take a look & see if they are the quality you want.
Also check with MediaInfo the stats.

[Jonava]

I do not have ConverXtoDVD.
For the clips below I converted two .mp4s that totaled 1 hour 6 minutes I had to DVD format with AVStoDVD.
This is close to the 1 hour for a DVD5 suggested by jagabo.
I then took a clip from each title(both in one DVD VIDEO_TS folder now).I did clips because the whole DVD is 3.61GB.
The clips were extracted with ffmpeg.
Take a look & see if they are the quality you want.
Also check with MediaInfo the stats.

Yes, those are pretty good indeed. The videos look pretty good and sharp.
Bit rate mode: Variable
Bit rate: 7 552 kb/s
Maximum bit rate: 9 000 kb/s

I converted 4 videos of around 25 minutes each (1:41:09 total) to DVD. The result of each VOB video was this:
Bit rate mode: Variable
Bit rate: 4 735 kb/s ~ 5 500 kb/s
Maximum bit rate: 9 000 kb/s

I think the result is pretty good. Both technical and to my eyes, when I see the videos on screen. I'm not looking after perfection. I just don't want to quality to be far from the original. The convertion being 75% to 90% similar to the source video is great already. I will take into consideration first the total time of the video/s. Not more than 2 hours. After the conversion to the folder with the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS I intent to copy the original video files as data files to the disc, convert the folder to ISO and then burn/engrave it with ImgBurn.

[jagabo]

When you want to cram a lot of video onto a DVD you can reduce the resolution to half D1 (352x576) or quarter D1 (352x288). That gives up resolution in order to get less blocking from the compression. With some material the resolution loss (especially with half D1) may not be visible.

Another thing one can do is reduce noise (spacially and temporally) before compression. Less noise makes the video more compressible.

[cholla]

@ Jonava,
Which software did you use for the conversion ?

If you include original video files & an .iSO of the DVD folder won't this be too large to write to a DVD5?
I assume all this will be written as a data disc.
While this will usually work on a DVD player or opitcal DVD or BD drive on a computer It won't play like a regular DVD.