Improve Hauppauge USB-Live2 capture quality

[Sharc]

Your file is total crap. Blended fields, lateral (temporal) field shifts, geometric distortions etc. Did it get badly resized at some point?
Upload a short snippet of your .avi. Maybe the problem is already with your capture.

[Aro]

Your file is total crap.

No argument ).
Yes, it has been resized, using those settings:

[Attachment 87771 - Click to enlarge]

I don't have AVI for that particular capture, but it does not look like it. It doens't look like that when those advanced options to keep file interlaced are not in place either, or when I interlace using Yadiff-Bob.
Later today I'll share some other samples so that You could take a look.

[Sharc]

I don't have AVI for that particular capture,

So what is your source then? Upload a snippet of your source.

... or when I interlace using Yadiff-Bob.

Yadif-Bob is a deinterlacer. It does not interlace.

[Aro]

Different footage, but same issue.
Original AVI (Amarec TV, HuffYuv Lossless capture - Hauppauge USB Live-2, Phillips VR1100, S-video connection)
https://mega.nz/file/LRwnCByI#wAgl0CjQO1FF2p0GCpG73C7jc7ia0IdUCrFl-FCjOBs

Deinterlaced (Bob Yadiff) + Resized (Or attempt to fix aspect ratio?) - Handbrake - MP4
https://mega.nz/file/2JJSTR4S#DWi-ZA9L8EoQqwcKKvka8q6ooGrFYYzCY49T0KAYNYc

Not Deinterlaced (":interlaced=1:tff=1") + Resized (Or attempt to fix aspect ratio?) - Handbrake - Problematic - MP4:
https://mega.nz/file/OcpGzKjD#_EyzjyvNnDBZTzMBFBU-bYoXN6zyWUZr4TWnfHe0KzQ

Yadif-Bob is a deinterlacer. It does not interlace.

Yes, my apologies - typo.

[Sharc]

The .avi looks ok. Skip the GUI and try post #106. Life is too short to waste time with some GUIs.

Here the interlaced snippet, for example:

[Aro]

That snippet looks very good. Does that tool fix the aspect ratio automatically as well? I see it's 4:3.
I have some issues getting it to work. Should it be fine on Windows 11?

[Attachment 87788 - Click to enlarge]

[Sharc]

Yes on w11. Seems you didn't follow my instructions.

[Aro]

Yes on w11. Seems you didn't follow my instructions.

I read it couple times and I can't figure out where could I be going wrong.
The compression seems to be starting if I don't unzip it, just "open" it where it is - but then in that folder I just get a copy of the same size AVI file in the Aro folder.

[Attachment 87789 - Click to enlarge]

If I do the same thing after unzipping to Desktop first, I first get anti-virus warning - and then if I click "launch anyway", I get the message that I posted above.

[jagabo]

The video in post #120 was resized without deinterlacing. That has ruined the field structure. It can no longer be deinterlaced properly. The "not deinterlaced" mp4 in post #124 is similar. The deinteraced version is ok-ish. Here's one deinterlaced with QTGMC (default settings) in AviSynth. Note the greatly reduced buzzing of the white ropes in the background.

[Sharc]

If I do the same thing after unzipping to Desktop first, I first get anti-virus warning - and then if I click "launch anyway", I get the message that I posted above.

No idea as to why not. Here the deinterlaced variant using my method of post#106, for example

[Aro]

The video in post #120 was resized without deinterlacing. That has ruined the field structure. It can no longer be deinterlaced properly. The "not deinterlaced" mp4 in post #124 is similar. The deinteraced version is ok-ish. Here's one deinterlaced with QTGMC (default settings) in AviSynth. Note the greatly reduced buzzing of the white ropes in the background.

I see... I tried to put those advanced options in without resizing, but it would not work. Handbrake just reporting error.
If I was to use AviSynth for deinterlacing, could You please let me know what should be my order for action? First deinterlace the AVI file with AviSynth and then resize and compress with other tool, like Handbrake?
Thanks!

Unfortunete about the issue, Sharc - but big thanks for a helpful hand nonetheless. Maybe I'll just try the regular FFMpeg.

[jagabo]

Here's the AviSynth script I used:

LWLibavVideoSource("Sample - Original AVI.avi") 
AssumeTFF()
QTGMC()
Crop(4,0,-12,-0)
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=false)
PreFetch(8) # for AviSynth+ multithreading

Note that you have a standard ITU capture. The 4:3 image is in the inner ~704x576 portion of the frame. Hence the cropping of the borders at the left and right.

[Aro]

Here's the AviSynth script I used:

LWLibavVideoSource("Sample - Original AVI.avi") 
AssumeTFF()
QTGMC()
Crop(4,0,-12,-0)
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=false)
PreFetch(8) # for AviSynth+ multithreading

Note that you have a standard ITU capture. The 4:3 image is in the inner ~704x576 portion of the frame. Hence the cropping of the borders at the left and right.

Thanks a lot, that's going to be very helpful.
Just a question, if my video is 704x576, won't it cause any problems? In terms of compatibility, or the issue of a friend of mine converting it into DVDs? I think Pal should typically be 720x576.

The thing about it all - is I didn't notice the issue while playing the files on my computer with VLC doing it the "old way", but I share those files with other people so I'd like to make sure They won't have any issues with it.
Thanks, yet again!

Ok, one more question.. would it be fine to fix DAR without doing any cropping? I just figured out I can do it on Handbrake without upsizing, then it's "regular" 720x576 4:3. Any downsidest to it? Some black field does not bother me. I had cropping set to Automatic this whole time....

[jagabo]

Just a question, if my video is 704x576, won't it cause any problems? In terms of compatibility, or the issue of a friend of mine converting it into DVDs? I think Pal should typically be 720x576.

There shouldn't be any problems with 704x576. It's fully supported by PAL DVD.

Ok, one more question.. would it be fine to fix DAR without doing any cropping? I just figured out I can do it on Handbrake without upsizing, then it's "regular" 720x576 4:3. Any downsidest to it?

Technically, that gives you the wrong aspect ratio. Since the 720x576 ITU cap has 16 more pixels horizontally than the 704x576 portion that represents the 4:3 picture there will be a slight aspect ratio error if you specify 4:3 DAR for the full frame. But nobody will notice the ~2 percent error. In fact, most DVDs made from analog tapes have that error. And back in the day of analog CRT televisions most TVs had bigger aspect ratio errors than that anyway.

[Aro]

Ok, when I set cropping to noone - seems like now I can keep files interlaced and fix the DAR?
A sample, without the previous issue:
(It should be named Interlaced - Fixed Dar, sorry)
https://mega.nz/file/uFo21ILA#5AdllrypQMSyTa9WCWIo37RKBdBwjLUxjDX1J0uAehY

Then I could perhaps deinterlace it with AviSynth after if I want to? Or is that not a good idea?
(When You'll guys have time, sorry I'm just throwing this stuff out there as I'm experimenting).

There shouldn't be any problems with 704x576. It's fully supported by PAL DVD.

Thanks! Ok, maybe that's the way to do it then.

[Alwyn]

I've had a play with Handbrake and I've concluded that, for "analogue" AVIs such as tape captures, it will not create a correctly-flagged MP4 (h264). If you leave all Interlacing options off, Handbrake produces an Interlaced file but flags it as Progressive (as far as MediaInfo is concerned).

[jagabo]

The video in post #135 has blended chroma -- the colors of the two fields were blended together. The most likely cause is an incorrect conversion from YUV 4:2:2 to YUV 4:2:0 (treating it as progressive, not interlaced). I don't know if there's any way to force Handbrake to do it correctly.

[davexnet]

The video in post #135 has blended chroma -- the colors of the two fields were blended together. The most likely cause is an incorrect conversion from YUV 4:2:2 to YUV 4:2:0 (treating it as progressive, not interlaced). I don't know if there's any way to force Handbrake to do it correctly.

Perhaps Aro can provide a corresponding section of the source for comparison and testing ...

[jagabo]

I think the AVI in post #124 is the source.

[davexnet]

I think the AVI in post #124 is the source.

oops ... thanks jagabo

Is this the thing that's missing?
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/377828-changing-chroma-subsampling-from-4-2-2-to-4...-0#post2439416

[Alwyn]

I just made an Interlaced MP4 (h264) in VDub2. The file is interlaced but the MediaInfo, once again, says it's Progressive.

[davexnet]

I just made an Interlaced MP4 (h264) in VDub2. The file is interlaced but the MediaInfo, once again, says it's Progressive.

Did you add

--tff

in the Extra command line (for advanced users) ?

[jagabo]

I think the AVI in post #124 is the source.

oops ... thanks jagabo

Is this the thing that's missing?
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/377828-changing-chroma-subsampling-from-4-2-2-to-4...-0#post2439416

Yes. In AviSynth it is ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) vs. ConvertToYV12(interlaced=false). If you don't specify true/false it will default to false.

blended chroma:

[Attachment 87797 - Click to enlarge]

normal chroma:

[Attachment 87798 - Click to enlarge]

Note the red glove at the bottom center. The red "shadow" to the left of the glove is blending of the colors from the previous field.

[Alwyn]

Did you add
Code:
--tff
in the Extra command line (for advanced users) ?

Just tried that (on your suggestion).

Handbrake: no change, still reads as Prog but is Interlaced.

VDub2: file now reads as MBAFF, Interleaved, TFF but threw an error message:

[Attachment 87799 - Click to enlarge]
The file seems to play OK.

[davexnet]

IT seems the interlaced 422 > 420 is the problem; causing a merging of the chroma as jagabo mentioned.
I remember there was a thing in the past where Virtualdub didn't deal with interlaced 420 properly.
I forget the details unfortunately

[Sharc]

Unfortunete about the issue, Sharc - but big thanks for a helpful hand nonetheless. Maybe I'll just try the regular FFMpeg.

No idea why it doesn't work for you. Maybe your virus scanner prevents the execution of executables and batchfiles or commandlines unless they are in the standard programs folder. Just guessing.
(Btw. the chroma is handled correctly in my proposals for both cases, interlaced and deinterlaced. It is 4:3 with the ~2% aspect ratio error which jagabo explained. I was just lazy to crop or specify the SAR (aka PAR, Pixel Aspect Ratio) for simplicity's sake).

[Aro]

Maybe your virus scanner prevents the execution of executables and batchfiles or commandlines unless they are in the standard programs folder. Just guessing.

Yes, I suspect that's it indeed. I tried to download it again and now it gave me false (I think false ) trojan flag immediately.

Thanks for the discussion everyone.
So what I gathered is my best option would be using better tools - like FFMpeg and AviSynth and if I continue to use Handbrake, I should deinterlace with something like Yadiff-Bob at least(I know there are better options, just the time requirement might be the issue) - and then the results will at least be, like jagabo called it "ok-ish".
I honestly find those command-tools quite intimidating. As everyone probably guessed by now, I never had much to do with programming.

[Barrythecrab]

I can’t code, can’t do anything like that. But with Selur’s Hybrid I can get things done, and QTGMC is at my fingertips.

[Alwyn]

Here's a comparison, AVISynth QTGMC 50fps and Handbrake BWDIF+Bob 50fps

https://imgsli.com/Mzk3NjMy

[Aro]

Ok, I was able to fix the issue that I made my initial post on the topic about.

In DVD converter AVStoDVD, when the files are added to the project, you can right click on the files in the window,
Edit source title info/Video scan type/Interlaced. This will yield an interlaced DVD (no problem)
An alternative might be attempt a deinterlace at this stage, but some damage has already been done (see below)

This should give an improvement, but see jagabo's reply when I asked about this myseff a number of years ago:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/398436-In-VirtualDub-where-is-the-capture-BITRATE-...ng#post2592253

I'm not sure if that's because AVStoDVD has AviSnynth built in(?), but when I convert those older, problematic MP4 with it, it's fine and there's no noticeable quality loss.
I can also deinterlace through Handbrake and then burn DVD and it's fine also.. I understand it's probably imperfect and "some damage has been done", but it's satisfiable.

Going forwad, You guys inspired me to try to master other tools, like AVISynth and FFMpeg, or perhaps Hybrid which Barrythecrab mentioned - although this could be a longer learning curve.
Big thanks to everyone who contributed. I would not be able to figure it out (to the point to which I actually figured it out ) ) - without You.