Improve Hauppauge USB-Live2 capture quality

[tko4]

I'm in the process of digitizing old PAL VHS tapes using a Hauppauge USB-Live2 with AmaRecTv 3.10 on a Windows 10 PC, and I'm not sure if the quality I'm getting is what I should expect. I'm using a JVC HR-S7600 (supports TBC). For comparison, I also captured the same tape using another VCR I own, the Sony SLV-ED1MJ. To be honest, I don't see a huge difference. I used the composite output for the Sony VCR, as it only supports composite, and the S-Video output for the JVC.

JVC HR-S7600:

[Attachment 84538 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 84541 - Click to enlarge]

Sony SLV-ED1MJ:

[Attachment 84537 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 84542 - Click to enlarge]

However, since I’m not sure what quality I should expect from these captures, I was hoping someone with more experience could guide me to improve quality and reduce noise.

For reference:

I set the USB-Live2 to PAL_B.
I'm using the Lagarith codec, although I also tried Huffyuv and noticed minimal difference in quality.

Attached you can find a video sample using the JVC VCR.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback or recommendations based on your experiences. Thanks!

[DB83]

Just my 2 cents since I do not own either vcr and, if I understand correctly, results can vary from tape to tape.

So I assume you had the TBC/DNR on when you captured from the JVC. If so, have you also tried capturing with the TBC/DNR off ? Ferthermore I am not sure what the real benefits of this internal 'TBC' are since a proper TBC is an external device.


Like I said, results can vary from tape to tape. But any noise reduction should really be done post capture where you have more control over the process.

[Barrythecrab]

The reds on the uniforms. Much more bleeding on the Sony.

[godai]

so far in my case one looks better its the camera with firewire port.

looks better detailed image.

i collect soccer games too! have some in vhs. south america and world cup.

[dellsam34]

First you never judge the quality by the menu blue screen, it has nothing to do with playback quality, You want the video playback, Second, stills don't tell the whole story, You need motion to be able to see the defects such as line wiggle in non TBC VCRs, chroma artifacts for composite only VCRs and so on.

[tko4]

First you never judge the quality by the menu blue screen, it has nothing to do with playback quality, You want the video playback, Second, stills don't tell the whole story, You need motion to be able to see the defects such as line wiggle in non TBC VCRs, chroma artifacts for composite only VCRs and so on.

Thanks for the clarification. For reference, I also tried using the Elgato Video Capture, and the blue screen appeared more clear than with the Hauppauge USB-Live2. Does this indicate something I should consider? Could this possibly point to an issue with the Hauppauge USB-Live2 unit or wrong setup?

Elgato:

[Attachment 84559 - Click to enlarge]

[Alwyn]

Does this indicate something I should consider? Could this possibly point to an issue with the Hauppauge USB-Live2 unit or wrong setup?

No. Read Dellsam's first sentence again.

If so, have you also tried capturing with the TBC/DNR off ? Ferthermore I am not sure what the real benefits of this internal 'TBC' are since a proper TBC is an external device.

Misleading info there methinks. A VCR with integrated TBC is the pinnacle of the VCR world. This, after all, JVC. It may need the assistance of an external TBC for bad tapes. And being SVHS, it will have S-Video Out. And, of course, according to readings here, the internal TBC in this type of VCR does different things compared to your "proper TBC".

[lollo]

You capture is generally ok, and the JVC delivers a better image.

I suspect you do not use in edit mode and D3R off, because oversharping halos are present. More over there is evident and bleeding of chroma channel, not constant across frames, and not fixable by a sample chroma shift (at least with my attempt).

In addition you acted on the procamp of the card, probably to enlarge the captured range, but doing so you are creating gaps in histogram (not very important) and crushing some black at Y=16 (marginally).
The procamp should only be used to make the levels staying in the capturable range (16-254 for Hauppauge USB-Live2) and not for expanding the input levels.





A basic restoration with QTGMC, TemporalDegrain2 and LSFmod improves a little bit the overall look: https://imgsli.com/MzM0Nzg5 (unfair comparison, interlaced versus restored)

[tko4]

You capture is generally ok, and the JVC delivers a better image.

I suspect you do not use in edit mode and D3R off, because oversharping halos are present. More over there is evident and bleeding of chroma channel, not constant across frames, and not fixable by a sample chroma shift (at least with my attempt).

In addition you acted on the procamp of the card, probably to enlarge the captured range, but doing so you are creating gaps in histogram (not very important) and crushing some black at Y=16 (marginally).
The procamp should only be used to make the levels staying in the capturable range (16-254 for Hauppauge USB-Live2) and not for expanding the input levels.


[Attachment 84562 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 84563 - Click to enlarge]

A basic restoration with QTGMC, TemporalDegrain2 and LSFmod improves a little bit the overall look: https://imgsli.com/MzM0Nzg5 (unfair comparison, interlaced versus restored)

You are correct D3R was on, I set it to off. I don't see an "Edit Mode" option, but it does have a Picture Control setting with "Edit" as an option, I'm not sure if it's the same thing. I set the procamp to default settings.


[Attachment 84580 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 84593 - Click to enlarge]

[dellsam34]

Yes that's the one, It should be on "Edit" option.

[tko4]

Yes that's the one, It should be on "Edit" option.

Thanks for the clarification. I’ve added two more samples that include motion + "Edit" option.


[Attachment 84592 - Click to enlarge]

[lollo]

Nice capture, but you still suffer of the levels problems as before. Reset the procamp value of the card to the defaults, and restart from there to avoid accumulation at Y=16.





Here a basic attempt to restore and upscale (TemporalDegrain2(degrainTR=1), LSFmod, nnedi3_rpow2): a3_yt.avi

comparison:


with image slider: https://imgsli.com/MzM0OTAz

uploaded on my YT channel, just for fun (not too bad at all!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ryvKiSRLxE


edit: added processed video file; sorry, I left by mistake some of the head switching noise.

[Alwyn]

Reset the procamp value of the card to the defaults

They already have; post #9.

Setting the levels can be tricky when you don't have "the eye" for them. As you get more familiar, you'll probably be able to set them by eye, but to give you some background, and how to set them, before capture, to avoid blowouts, have a read through my notes on the subject here. I use this technique for virtually all of my captures.

[lollo]

No, the procamp is not at default, because the histogram of the USB-Live2 is never like that.

I noticed now that the OP added a screenshot of the setting editing its previous post. It confirms they are not at their default.

[tko4]

Reset the procamp value of the card to the defaults

They already have; post #9.

Setting the levels can be tricky when you don't have "the eye" for them. As you get more familiar, you'll probably be able to set them by eye, but to give you some background, and how to set them, before capture, to avoid blowouts, have a read through my notes on the subject here. I use this technique for virtually all of my captures.

Thank you I will check out the link.

No, the procamp is not at default, because the histogram of the USB-Live2 is never like that.

I noticed now that the OP added a screenshot of the setting editing its previous post. It confirms they are not at their default.

These are indeed the default settings for the procamp when clicking the Default button.

[lollo]

These should be the default settings:



What drivers version are you using? Mine are 6.0.119.36075

[Alwyn]

tk04, it is really a USB-Live2?

[tko4]

These should be the default settings:


[Attachment 84607 - Click to enlarge]

What drivers version are you using?

It seems that you have different tab options.

These are the max values I can pick:

[Attachment 84609 - Click to enlarge]

I used the Hauppauge Capture software to install the drivers, as it offers an option for driver installation.

https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_usblive2.html#main

[tko4]

tk04, it is really a USB-Live2?

I think so

[Attachment 84610 - Click to enlarge]

I bought it from Amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-Live2-Capture-display-record-Laptop/dp/B003Q2ZA36

[lollo]

Do not know what to say, you are using a recent version of the Hauppauge software, probably containing different drivers.

In any case the values are wrong, try a capture with the procamp values at half values and post a sample. We should then recognize the classic USB-Live2 histogram.

edit: for your convenience, here the drivers I am using: driver10_6_0_119_36075.zip

The latest version of the drivers (6_0_119_39299) is here https://hauppauge.s3.amazonaws.com/drivers/driver10_6_0_119_39299-win7-8-36075.exe but I never tried them

[tko4]

Do not know what to say, you are using a recent version of the Hauppauge software, probably containing different drivers.

In any case the values are wrong, try a capture with the procamp values at half values and post a sample. We should then recognize the classic USB-Live2 histogram.

edit: for your convenience, here the drivers I am using:
[Attachment 84611 - Click to enlarge]

The latest version of the drivers (6_0_119_39299) is here https://hauppauge.s3.amazonaws.com/drivers/driver10_6_0_119_39299-win7-8-36075.exe but I never tried them

In the Device Manager, I see a different driver version than the one you mentioned. I’m not sure if these are the same drivers you’re referring to.


[Attachment 84612 - Click to enlarge]

[lollo]

In general, what comes with the generic software Hauppauge Capture or WinTV may contain wrong/old/too new drivers.
What you have is working, so not really an issue here. Just the default values are weird, but you can change them as you like (I suggest start at half value).

If you want to experiment, I edited my previous post to attach the drivers version I am using, together with the last USB-Live2 drivers released (some time ago).

[tko4]

In general, what comes with the generic software Hauppauge Capture or WinTV may contain wrong/old/too new drivers.
What you have is working, so not really an issue here. Just the default values are weird, but you can change them as you like (I suggest start at half value).

If you want to experiment, I edited my previous post to attach the drivers version I am using, together with the last USB-Live2 drivers released (some time ago).

I installed 6.0.119.36075 drivers and after finishing it says: Compatible hardware not found


[Attachment 84613 - Click to enlarge]

[lollo]

Stay with what you have then, it was just an experiment. I see that USB-Live 2 is now model 122020 while it was 122000 before.

[tko4]

Do not know what to say, you are using a recent version of the Hauppauge software, probably containing different drivers.

In any case the values are wrong, try a capture with the procamp values at half values and post a sample. We should then recognize the classic USB-Live2 histogram.

edit: for your convenience, here the drivers I am using:
[Attachment 84611 - Click to enlarge]

The latest version of the drivers (6_0_119_39299) is here https://hauppauge.s3.amazonaws.com/drivers/driver10_6_0_119_39299-win7-8-36075.exe but I never tried them

The same sample as the previous one:

[Attachment 84617 - Click to enlarge]

Procamp values:

[Attachment 84618 - Click to enlarge]

I kept Sharpness to 2 as above 5 is too much.

[Sharc]

The latest version of the drivers (6_0_119_39299) is here https://hauppauge.s3.amazonaws.com/drivers/driver10_6_0_119_39299-win7-8-36075.exe but I never tried them

I am using this latest driver version on W11 with my "old" USB-live 2 and it works perfectly. The default is at 4992 as well.
And despite the OP's contrast slider was shifted slightly to the left in his post#9, his histogram had gaps. Just wondering ....

(For the GV-USB2 I get the 0....256 scale, with defaults around 128)

[lollo]

The same sample as the previous one

Procamp values

Still gaps in the histogram. Not a big issue, but you can play with brigthness and contrast to remove them and avoid accumulation at Y=16.

I kept Sharpness to 2 as above 5 is too much.

Yes correct, set sharpness at low values, even 1 or 0 should be appropriate. (it was ok beeing at middle point in previous drivers version).

I am using this latest driver version on W11 with my "old" USB-live 2 and it works perfectly. The default is at 4992 as well.

Thanks for the info!

And despite the OP's contrast slider was shifted slightly to the left in his post#9, his histogram had gaps. Just wondering ....

Something has definitely changed in the drivers and the management of the levels

[Sharc]

Do not know what to say, you are using a recent version of the Hauppauge software, probably containing different drivers.

In any case the values are wrong, try a capture with the procamp values at half values and post a sample. We should then recognize the classic USB-Live2 histogram.

edit: for your convenience, here the drivers I am using:
[Attachment 84611 - Click to enlarge]

The latest version of the drivers (6_0_119_39299) is here https://hauppauge.s3.amazonaws.com/drivers/driver10_6_0_119_39299-win7-8-36075.exe but I never tried them

The same sample as the previous one:

[Attachment 84617 - Click to enlarge]

Procamp values:

[Attachment 84618 - Click to enlarge]

I kept Sharpness to 2 as above 5 is too much.

Obviously these settings are bad.

Edit:
@tko4: Isn't a utility "hwclear.exe" for a clean deinstallation of old drivers shipped with the package? If so, run it and reinstall the driver.
(This utility can also be downloaded from Hauppauge as far as I remember.)

[lollo]

Obviously these 128 settings are bad.

Yes, defaults were better:



My suggestion based on "half should be ok" was bad!

[tko4]

The latest version of the drivers (6_0_119_39299) is here https://hauppauge.s3.amazonaws.com/drivers/driver10_6_0_119_39299-win7-8-36075.exe but I never tried them

I am using this latest driver version on W11 with my "old" USB-live 2 and it works perfectly. The default is at 4992 as well.
And despite the OP's contrast slider was shifted slightly to the left in his post#9, his histogram had gaps. Just wondering ....

(For the GV-USB2 I get the 0....256 scale, with defaults around 128)

It seems they’ve adjusted the way they handle levels on the new model

Obviously these 128 settings are bad.

Yes, defaults were better:


[Attachment 84620 - Click to enlarge]

My suggestion based on "half should be ok" was bad!

Histogram after playing a bit with the levels:

[Attachment 84621 - Click to enlarge]

Procamp:

[Attachment 84622 - Click to enlarge]

*Used VirtualDub for this sample as my PC crashes (BSOD) with VirtualDub with whatever version I use and AmarecTV gives me an error on my laptop "code: pConfig-> SetFormat(pamt)". I tried to change the decimal symbol to "." and it didn't work