Alternatives for VideoReDo TV Suite with Test Results

[codemaster]

I must try Kdenlive for the Titles/Credits, i thought that it might do Overlay titles like in TMPGEnc Smart Renderer 6, which i don't ever want to do.

It can do titles and credits like in VideoReDo AND like in TMPGEnc Smart Renderer. It can be used as a replacement for the title and credits generator integrated in VideoReDo.

[Marayong]

Just confirming .. Tipard only does intelligent encoding when snipping off video segments and the start and/or end of the video. Any cuts inside of the video result in a full recoding? Since most of the videos I edit have interior cuts, that would make it an unattractive alternative for me. So we're back to the combination of losslesscut & handbrake for a VRD alternative ... with some other software thrown in to handle some of the other VRD features if needed .. like titles, burning to a DVD and the like.

As for apple videos, I've found the best solution is to ask the iphone owners to change the settings on their phone to record videos in mp4 format and not mov "since the apple format has incompatibility issues with non-apple devices". Ditto with photos for that matter. Since they wanted to share the videos in question, they were all happy to make that change.

[Bridgy]

Just confirming .. Tipard only does intelligent encoding when snipping off video segments and the start and/or end of the video. Any cuts inside of the video result in a full recoding? Since most of the videos I edit have interior cuts, that would make it an unattractive alternative for me. So we're back to the combination of losslesscut & handbrake for a VRD alternative ... with some other software thrown in to handle some of the other VRD features if needed .. like titles, burning to a DVD and the like.

Yep you are correct as i found out over the weekend about Tipard only Smart Rendering when a file has been cut at the start, and/or at the end and exported, not when bits are cut between and then merged as a single file.

You can cut the unwanted bits out from a file and export the retained segments as separate files, these are also Smart Rendered too as they are not merged, but they cannot be imported back into Tipard to join them because Tipard fully recodes them.

It is a shame that Handbrake does not do cuts, but a bigger shame that it does not combine/merge multiple files, even if they are identical, such as segments cut from a file in Tippard and exported as separate files (all are smart rendered)

I would rather use Handbrake to join those Tipard files (recoded) because it uses the x264/x265 encoders, but Tipard i think uses something like Mainconcept (as does VRD) to recode multiple files together.

Anyway, Tipard is now back off my Radar because of it's lack of smart rendering files with multiple cuts, and not using x264/x265 encoders.

As for apple videos, I've found the best solution is to ask the iphone owners to change the settings on their phone to record videos in mp4 format and not mov "since the apple format has incompatibility issues with non-apple devices". Ditto with photos for that matter. Since they wanted to share the videos in question, they were all happy to make that change.

I don't know anything about iPhones or their camera system, my wife recently moved to an iPhone 16 (standard one) and the video is crap compared to even my S21, so i would not be bothering with Apple videos, even if recorded on an iPhone 16 Pro Max.

[Bridgy]

It can do titles and credits like in VideoReDo AND like in TMPGEnc Smart Renderer. It can be used as a replacement for the title and credits generator integrated in VideoReDo, when VideoReDo will no longer activate. It has some bugs and crashes, but it's free and for titles and credits it works. It has a manual with tutorials, and there's video tutorials on youtube.

Giving Kdenlive a go today, i need to have more patience with this one after my attempts to trim out a video file last time and hating the strange way that the cutting tool works.

EDIT: here we go again, now i realized another peeve that i have with Kdenlive, it will not detect my 2tb Files Storage drive in my laptop, which happens to be fully Encrypted, and i need to Mount it in Windows using VeraCrypt whenever i turn the laptop on.

Every other software that i use has always detected this mounted drive with it's contents, but not Kdenlive for some strange reason.

Looks like i need to put my working files in my Windows Video Folder to load them into Kdenlive (strange)


[Attachment 84773 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 84774 - Click to enlarge]

[Marayong]

That's downright weird with the encrypted drive. Veracrypt (and other encrypters) are designed to merge seamlessly with the os' file explorer. Once the drive is mounted, software should not be able to tell the difference. I've never run into software that had issues with a mounted encrypted drive. Maybe mention that on the veracrypt forum? If Klenlive has issues with encrypted drives in general (rather than specifically with veracrypt) that's a serious failing since windows comes with it's own encryption software (bitlocker) as part of the os. And Windows (going back many versions) also applies a type of encryption to everything in %/user/% so that someone other that 'user' with user's password can't access what's in %/user/%, even if they plug the drive into another pc (there are ways around that of course). Potentially Klenlive would then have issues accessing anything in %/user/%, which is the default location where all user files are saved, including videos, downloads and so forth. More likely kleinlive has an issue specifically with veracrypt. Do you have the latest version of veracrypt?

And for the record, I've run VRD on video files on a veracrypt drive with no problems.

[Bridgy]

I keep all my Software up to date, and yes all of my software can see the VeraCrypt drive E.

I also use IceDrive as my Cloud storage service, which i use their desktop app to mount my online storage drive in Windows (i use drive letter Z for that) and i have my main storage folder from E Drive inside that IceDrive partition so it can be Sync'd on a regular basis.


[Attachment 84775 - Click to enlarge]

Kdenlive does not recognize IceDrive Z either, but most, if not all of my other Apps do i think, but that is my online storage so i don't need anything to see that except when doing stuff in Windows.

[Bridgy]

Check these screenshots out, i copied my 4k/60p HEVC test file into the Windows Video Folder and then i opened it with Kdenlive, and it would not accept it for editing, wants to change it to an Edit friendly format first, because it has a VFR ?????


[Attachment 84776 - Click to enlarge]

I had no idea what you transcode it to, so i just tried the Lossless option, and you can see the results in the following screenshot (56gb)


[Attachment 84777 - Click to enlarge]

So if i had to do this with other files, which Format do i actually transcode it to ?

[codemaster]

No need to import camera files in Kdenlive, or transcode them to massive lossless files. First you can create only titles and credits in Kdenlive or Shotcut. Then export titles and credits to lossless files. Then encode titles and credits with Handbrake. Then merge titles, credits, and camera files, with LosslessCut. This way, the camera files will not be encoded, only titles and credits will.

[Bridgy]

Damit, i can't get my 4k/60p HEVC or AVC files to open in Shotcut because they are VFR files, so Shotcut wants to convert it just like Kdenlive does, so i would not bother with these 2 programs if i had to use them for anything else.

For me, both are just too complex to bother trying to learn for my own purposes, i will just continue to use LosslessCut to trim out my files, and use VRD for titles until the day comes that VRD may be lost.


[Attachment 84779 - Click to enlarge]

Handbrake will be my go to tool for exports to other formats when needed.

Cheers everyone.

[codemaster]

Shotcut and Kdenlive don't support VFR, but Capcut and Movavi do. Shotcut and Kdenlive just for making titles and credits doesn't require VFR support, they generate CFR title clips, that can be encoded with Handbrake and can be merged with LosslessCut.

[hydra3333]

Ah the joys of VFR ...

IIRC, there may be playing devices that do not support VFR or may have issues with playing.
eg early chromecasts, Windows media player, some TVs.
Some stuff can play sort of OK but may encounter issues, eg sync, stutter, stall, no-load, "performance can vary depending on the specific file and system configuration" (according to chatGPT), etc.

YMMV.

So, perhaps one may need to consider one's audience when deciding what resulting format is wanted from an editor.

Cheers

PS I wonder what youThing does with an uploaded VFR file ?

[Baldrick]

Shotcut and Kdenlive don't support VFR, but Capcut and Movavi do. Shotcut and Kdenlive just for making titles and credits doesn't require VFR support, they generate CFR title clips, that can be encoded with Handbrake and can be merged with LosslessCut. There's no other way to make title and credits clips after VideoReDo becomes permanently locked, and there's no guarantee that a VideoReDo alternative will exist by then.

Capcuts homepage has no price information and no software version information? I would never download anything like that.

edit: And it's owned/developed by bytedance...no thanks.

[Bridgy]

Ah the joys of VFR ...
PS I wonder what youThing does with an uploaded VFR file ?

So if i import one of my 4k/60p HEVC camera files (VFR) into Handbrake to export to 1080/60p HEVC, would i choose Constant Frame Rate, as the Variable option is always set by default.

I have just started this exact export and selected CFR, to see what happens, but this 3 minute file is taking about 24 minutes to run, using CRF 20 as i was suggested to use for HEVC to HEVC at any resolution, really need my new editing computer for this stuff.

As far as Youtube goes, i upload lots of videos into my channel, all are my 4k/60p HEVC files which have been downscaled first to 1080/60p HEVC using VRD Intelligent Recode, but those still retain the VFR, but i am not sure what Youtube does to them after i upload them.

EDIT: I have been meaning to ask what part of this forum should i post a new Thread about getting my Son a new 16" Macbook Pro for his cinematography editing needs, or is there another Forum i should post it in.

He has a 4 year old 16 core AMD rig with 32gb of ram that i had built for him, but he now travels a lot filming Commercials and doco's etc, and he needs the portability.

He films with a Blackmagic PYXIS 6k camera, and also runs an URSA Mini Pro 4.6k G2 Camera as well, and he works a lot with ProRes and RAW, and he does a lot of color grading which is usually done using his color calibrated Dell 4k screen, not sure how he will go using a Macbook Pro for that stuff.

[codemaster]

It's better to export CFR, because that can prevent audio sync issues later. If you import VFR into Handbrake, and select to export CFR, then it will convert from VFR to CFR by adding and removing frames in order to make the video the same length as the audio.

Phone cameras record VFR by default, have no option to switch to CFR, and force you to use only editors that have full support for VFR. And those editors do not transcode to large lossless CFR files, they create small and fast VFR proxy files, and they export only CFR. I edit phone VFR recordings in Movavi. I've seen others edit them in Capcut. If phones had CFR recording, editing would be a lot easier.

[Seeker47]

Given the way some products proliferate under alternative brand names, I wonder whether Tipard could be one of those ? Someone just reminded me of -- for example -- Movavi Video Converter. Movavi also has a slew of products. They mentioned it in the context of one that could re-time the synch on errant subtitles, a feature I would not have guessed.

And here is another one besides Movavi: https://sharewareonsale.com/s/free-videoproc-converter-ai-100-discount

I'm sure I've probably used a "pre-AI" version of this product a few times before, but have no specific recollections I could report. Their WinX converter (which also got "AI-ified", for whatever that may be worth) is one that I've used a lot more, and liked. Digiarty seems to make good products. The VideoProc one I think incorporates some editing and other features. But I doubt it's going to compare with your more heavy duty editors, AI or not.

[hydra3333]

If phones had CFR recording, editing would be a lot easier.

I recall asking the inimitable DG (author of DGDecNV and CUDA Filters) about some VFR phone files and the possibility of GPU assisted conversion to CFR ... sample files provided turned out to be close to, but not actually, CFR and so he indicated something along the lines it wouldn't be a good use of his time (I understood, he's a busy person).

No guarantees what each model of phone will produce now or into the future, especially with the android "Low Light Auto FPS" setting; I use ffmpeg to insert/remove frames to make a CFR re-encode with the fine control ffmpeg provides.

FWIW, chatGPT recommends ffmpeg or HandBrake to convert VFR to CFR.

[Bridgy]

I just received my new S24 Ultra phone and it is in the process of setting it up using Smart Match, so i have not had a chance to try it yet, but i will assume that the 4k/60p HEVC video will be VFR on that too, wish they had an option to do either.

I spent several hours today testing Handbrake again exporting a new VFR Camera File to Various CRF Settings, all done in CFR Mode, just to see what happens.

SOURCE File: 30 Second 4k-60p HEVC VFR @ 41.9Mbps - Main@5.2

4k Test 1: Export to 4k-60p HEVC - CFR @ RF20 = 51.0Mbps - Main@5.1 (9:00 Min)
4k Test 2: Export to 4k-60p HEVC - CFR @ RF21 = 41.5Mbps - Main@5.1 (8:00 Min)
4k Test 3: Export to 4k-60p HEVC - CFR @ RF22 = 33.5Mbps - Main@5.1 (7:30 Min)

1080p Test 1: Export to 1080-60p HEVC - CFR @ RF20 = 14.3Mbps - Main@L4.1 (2:10 Min)
1080p Test 2: Export to 1080-60p HEVC - CFR @ RF21 = 11.6 Mbps - Main@L4.1 (2:00 Min)
1080p Test 3: Export to 1080-60p HEVC - CFR @ RF22 = 9.5Mbps - Main@L4.1 (1:40 Min)

720p Test 1: Export to 720-60p HEVC - CFR @ RF20 =6.7Mbps - Main@L4
720p Test 2: Export to 720-60p HEVC - CFR @ RF21 = 5.5Mbps - Main@ L4
720p Test 3: Export to 720-60p HEVC - CFR @ RF22 = 4.5Mbps - Main@L4

Question 1: Do i leave the Encoder Profile and Levels as they are when i have set my export profile, or do i set them to Auto which is what i set them at for these 9 Test Exports

Question 2: After doing my Cuts with my VFR Source Files and Smart Render them (in LosslessCut) should i Recode them to CFR before i do any Edits that i need (Titles/Credits etc) or is it ok to leave them as VFR Files.

codemaster also advised that for HEVC to HEVC Exports, i should set the CRF @ 20, but i noted that in each of the 3 Export groups below, CRF 20 seemed to be a bit too high given the Source File Bitrate, i would have thought that i could get away with 21, or am i just over thinking it.

[codemaster]

Encoder profile and encoder level can be set by Handbrake, or can be set by the encoder. It's easier to let Handbrake set them, than to set them to auto every time.

It's not necessary to convert VFR to CFR before importing in LosslessCut, or Capcut, or Movavi. It's only necessary when importing in editors that lack support for VFR, such as Shotcut and Kdenlive.

When encoding to HEVC with x265, CRF 20 can result in higher or lower bitrate than the source file, depending on how much motion and complexity the source file contains. CRF 22 is acceptable, because you can't notice a difference between 20 and 22. But with CRF 24, you can notice that it doesn't look like the source.

[Bridgy]

Encoder profile and encoder level can be set by Handbrake, or can be set by the encoder. It's easier to let Handbrake set them, than to set them to auto every time.

Yeah if i set both to Auto for each Export Handbrake seems to export at slightly higher levels than the levels set by default after i lock in the Export format i want, so for a 4k/60p HEVC to 1080/60p HEVC Handbrake sets those levels to Main@4.0 but if i set them to Auto th File comes out at Main@4.1, so it seems like not much difference, i just assumed that setting them both to Auto that Handbrake, or the encoder will calculate the best setting during the recoding.

It's not necessary to convert VFR to CFR before importing in LosslessCut, or Capcut, or Movavi. It's only necessary when importing in editors that lack support for VFR, such as Shotcut and Kdenlive.

Yeah i just import the camera file into LosslessCut as it is only to do my Cuts and Smart Render them, seems pointless recoding to CFR if i am not going to do any further edits.

I was referring to, once i have cut and Smart Rendered the files and i need to do further edits, would it be advisable to recode the LosslessCut file from VFR to CFR first.

For just adding titles to my LosslessCut file using VRD i won't need to convert to CFR because the Titles are created as separate frames at the start of the video, and they are rendered, the rest of the video file is not.

I just wish that VRD had completed their 4K HEVC support for adding Titles and Smart Render them back to HEVC, if i cut my Files and smart render them in VRD, then import the file to the Joiner list to add a title/credit the export fails, but my Files that are Cut (at keyframes) and smart rendered with LosslessCut can be imported to VRD and the Titles will work.

When encoding to HEVC with x265, CRF 20 can result in higher or lower bitrate than the source file, depending on how much motion and complexity the source file contains. CRF 22 is acceptable, because you can't notice a difference between 20 and 22. But with CRF 24, you can notice that it doesn't look like the source.

Yes i noticed that HEVC to HEVC (4k to 1080 or 720) using CRF 20 always seems to have a higher bitrate than i would think is right, 21 seems to give a bitrate very close to 4 times lower than the 4k source for 1080p exports, and 9 times lower for 720p exports, but i know my logic is not necessarily right.

[codemaster]

Handbrake uses a lower preset and level than the encoder, in case old devices are not able to decode fast enough a higher preset and level.

After exporting VFR from LosslessCut, there is no need to convert that output file from VFR to CFR. But when you import a VFR file in Handbrake to encode it for older devices, you can select CFR in case the older device can't handle VFR.

[DVWannaB]

Thanks to @Bridgy for doing this and starting this discussion and also others in this thread. Another vote for here for VideoReDo TV Suite 6. By far my favorite and go-to editor. After reading through this thread I decided to test on my own to see results first hand. I recorded a Over the air 4K broadcast with my ATSC 3.0 tuner to DVR. Then I connected my Avermedia Live Gamer Ultra 2.1 to ATSC tuner via Thunderbolt and recorded the broadcast in 4K. Live Gamer records multichannel audio in AAC and a final multiplexed mp4 file. MP4 file details are H265 / 8 bit / 17.1 Mbps / 3840x2160 59.94 fps. Verified that VRD 6 cannot edit this file. Bummer. Then tried TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer 6, which I also own and found it just chokes on the video and crashes the app. Downloaded LosslessCut and gave it a go. Can confirm that LosslessCut does easily edit this file, cutting beginning, end and multiple commercials inside and outputs edited MP4 file. Success yes, but I dont like the that unlike VRD I could not achieve, as far as I could determine, frame accurate cuts, with unwanted cuts from commercials bleeding over in final file. If my cutting in LosslessCut was flawed, please let me know.

[Bridgy]

After exporting VFR from LosslessCut, there is no need to convert that output file from VFR to CFR. But when you import a VFR file in Handbrake to encode it for older devices, you can select CFR in case the older device can't handle VFR.

Yeah i will definitely be choosing the CFR option when exporting VFR files from Handbrake to other formats.

Also, have just completed 2 new Video Files to compare my older S21-5G phone video to my brand new S24 Ultra video, and they have both been uploaded into my Youtube Channel.

Both videos were Cut and Smart Rendered using LosslessCut, imported into VRD Pro to add the Titles, and Smart Rendered back to their original format without recoding them.

Both were then uploaded to Youtube in their original recorded formats (plus titles) and from there Youtube obviously recode them again to 4k/60p, 1440/60p, 1080/60p, and 720/60p as well, but i don't know what Youtube uses to do the recoding.

S21-5G Phone = 4k/60p HEVC (VFR) @41.7Mbps

https://youtu.be/mbmL2xQ7ycc

S24 Ultra Phone = 4k/60p HEVC (CFR) @ 60.9Mbps (see post below regarding this File being CFR when the S24 source file was VFR)

https://youtu.be/mbmL2xQ7ycc

Now, just to test the CFR and the CRF settings in Handbrake again, i imported both of those Videos into Handbrake and exported both of them using the exact same Fast 1080p60 (modified) profile (as seen below) and the resulting Bitrates were very very different, so i repeated it 2 more times with the exact same result, so i am lost as to why Handbrake could get these kinds of differences.

The S21 4k/60p HEVC @ 41.7 Exported at 29.9Mbps
I would have thought that the S21 export to 1080p would be more like 12Mbps based on the 41.7Mbps of the 4k file.

The S24 Ultra 4k/60p HEVC @ 60.0Mbps Exported at 17.9Mbps
This seems to be about right based on the 60.0Mbps of the 4k file, maybe this could have been RF22 instead.


[Attachment 84832 - Click to enlarge]

[Bridgy]

Deleted because it was a Double Post

[Bridgy]

Can confirm that LosslessCut does easily edit this file, cutting beginning, end and multiple commercials inside and outputs edited MP4 file. Success yes, but I dont like the that unlike VRD I could not achieve, as far as I could determine, frame accurate cuts, with unwanted cuts from commercials bleeding over in final file. If my cutting in LosslessCut was flawed, please let me know.

I don't know why, but i did not even see your Post until just now, i must be blind.

So you basically confirmed what i already knew that VRD will not Smart Cut and Smart Render 4k HEVC files, but LosslessCut will do it, and it does it very well, But for my LosslessCut HEVC files to play properly without glitches, and to work in VRD to add titles to, they must have the start Cut for each segment made on a Keyframe but the cuts at the end of each retained segment can be made anywhere, at least that is the way it worked with my testing.

Just to avoid any possible issues, i just do all of my Cuts in LosslessCut on a Keyframe, and i have never had any issues so far, and from my testing, when Cuts are made at keyframes, they certainly seem to be frame accurate.

My 4k/60p HEVC files are not mission critical for precise cutting, so i am happy to make all of my Cuts on Keyframes to have my files Smart Render without glitches, as well as work in my VRD Pro to add titles etc.

Just play around with it and you will sort it all out eventually.

[Bridgy]

Hey everyone, well i just noticed something rather strange while doing some more testing with the Video files recorded on my new S24 Ultra phone, and it has me very stumped.

The Camera records 4k/60p HEVC @ VFR @ 61.0Mbps @ Main5.1@High

I import to LosslessCut and do my Keyframe Cuts and Smart Render them, they Export to 4k/60p HEVC @ VFR @ 60.0Mbps

I load this into VRD Pro Joiner List, i add my 7 second Title, i Smart Render the file, and it Exports to 4k/60p HEVC @ 57.9Mbps BUT the File is now CFR

This does not happen with the 4k/60p HEVC files from my older S21 phone, those files remain as VFR.

I also need to run some more Handbrake tests as i have noticed something rather strange with that too, so i will post my question up shortly, after my testing has completed.

[codemaster]

VFR being interpreted as CFR, is one of several issues that happens when editing VFR in editors that don't have full support for VFR. Another issue that could happen is audio going out of sync. Another one is lack of proxy editing. To prevent these issues I had to switch to another editor, one that has full support for VFR. One such editor is TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer 6. Another is Movavi Video Editor.

Switching from a real camera to a phone camera, forced me to switch from CFR to VFR. And VFR forced me to switch from Premiere Pro to Movavi. And Movavi forced me to switch from x264 to AVC hardware encoding.

[Bridgy]

VFR being interpreted as CFR, is one of several issues that happens when editing VFR in editors that don't have full support for VFR. Another issue that could happen is audio going out of sync. Another one is lack of proxy editing. To prevent these issues I had to switch to another editor, one that has full support for VFR. One such editor is TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer 6. Another is Movavi Video Editor.

But i don't get why MediaInfo is telling me that the exports from VRD with the title added is now CFR with my S24 Ultra phone files, this was not the case with the S21 camera, so this surely can't be an issue with VRD Pro not handling VFR files very well, maybe there is something different about these 4k/60p HEVC files from the S24 that is causing this to happen.

Also, these files with the titles added were not recoded, only the 420 frames (7 seconds) of the title are rendered, so they should be rendered as VFR the same as the imported source file is, or are they actually being rendered as CFR by VRD and that is why MediaInfo is (mistakenly) showing the whole file as CFR, because if it is, then it is very misleading.

Apart from MediaInfo, what other tool can tell me the actual real attributes of my files.

Switching from a real camera to a phone camera, forced me to switch from CFR to VFR. And VFR forced me to switch from Premiere Pro to Movavi. And Movavi forced me to switch from x264 to AVC hardware encoding.

So you don't record videos in HEVC, or even 4k for that matter ?

[codemaster]

maybe there is something different about these 4k/60p HEVC files from the S24 that is causing this to happen.

Or VideoReDo doesn't interpret properly, fails to detect VFR, and assumes CFR. Because it doesn't have full support for VFR, like TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer 6 has.

Apart from MediaInfo, what other tool can tell me the attributes of my files.

ffprobe, but it detects the same specs as MediaInfo, except it rounds them up.

So you don't record videos in HEVC, or even 4k for that matter ?

I have 1080p AVC and 4K HEVC phone recordings. I edit them in Movavi to upload to streaming platforms, and I export AVC because Movavi doesn't have HEVC exporting like Capcut has. If they were CFR, I could export using x265 and x264, because I could edit them in any editor. This is the problem with VFR, you can't edit in any editor you want, and if you do there will be issues. Like VFR being interpreted as CFR, audio out of sync, missing proxy files, and no x265 x264 integration.

[Bridgy]

Or VideoReDo doesn't interpret properly, fails to detect VFR, and assumes CFR. Because it doesn't have full support for VFR, like TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer 6 has.

I just don't get why all of a sudden VRD with titles export as CFR with my S24 files when it does not do it with my S21, or my previous S23 phone that i recently sold, it just seems odd, so that is why i suspect there is something slightly different with my S24 Ultra files that was not present in the files from the other 2 phone cameras.

Anyway, it doesn't seem to make any difference to the file, they still play ok and Handbrake will import them too.

My next topic at hand. has to do with Handbrake, exporting the 4k/60p HEVC files from the S24 camera to 1080/60p and 720/60p HEVC.

I recall that you advised me to use CRF 20 if i export my 4k/60p HEVC files to any other HEVC resolution, so last week i ran a bunch of Exports using a short 30 second file from the S21 camera using various CRF Factors, so now that i have the new S24 Ultra that records HEVC at a higher bitrate than the S21, and much better quality as well, i decided to repeat those CRF exports just to see what the Bitrates might be, and i got the following results.

I know that i still get all hung up about Bitrates, and i am always thinking that Bitrates for 4k videos should be about 1/4 for 1080p and about 1/9th for 720p, and this is why i thought that the CRF 20 Factors for the 1080p and the 4k exports seemed to be rather low.

Export 4k/60p HEVC (VFR) @ 60.0Mbps to 1080/60p HEVC (CFR)

CRF17 = 17.0Mbps
CRF18 = 14.3Mbps - this would appear to be around the right bitrate
CRF19 = 12.1Mbps
CRF20 = 10.3Mbps
CRF21 = 8.6Mbps
CRF22 = 7.3Mbps

Export 4k/60p HEVC (VFR) @ 60.0Mbps to 720/60p HEVC (CFR)

CRF17 = 10.0Mbps
CRF18 = 8.5Mbps
CRF19 = 7.3Mbps
CRF20 = 6.2Mbps - this was recommended, and it would appear to be around the right bitrate
CRF21 = 5.3Mbps
CRF22 = 4.5Mbps

I also wanted to see what the Bitrates might be if i recoded the 4k/60p HEVC Source File to CFR using the same RF Factors as above.

CRF17 = 61.6Mbps - this matches the Source file.
CRF18 = 51.2Mbps
CRF19 = 42.5Mbps
CRF20 = 35.2Mbps
CRF21 = 28.9Mbps
CRF22 = 23.8Mbps

[codemaster]

For x265, CRF 17 is closer to the bitrate that the camera uses, because CRF 17 is the quality level that requires the maximum bitrate that makes the image look indistinguishable from source. CRF 20 is the quality level that requires the minimum bitrate that makes the image look almost indistinguishable from source, and the first quality level at which you can notice very slight degradation and alteration in some parts of the frame like grass and hair. That's why CRF 20 is good for storing offline, and CRF 17 is good for uploading to youtube.

For the same CRF value, if bitrate varies between different cameras, or between different clips from the same camera, it's because of different amounts of motion, complexity, noise, and anything that needs more bitrate. Cameras use the same bitrate for each clip, and CRF uses different bitrate for each clip. CRF can't use the same bitrate for each clip, otherwise quality wouldn't be constant.