EyeTV Hybrid VHS capture has fuzzy signal

[JVRaines]

What are the chances a video stabilizer may correct what I'm getting here?? As you can see the curvy edges are very subtle when you compare them to my friends captures.

You will be using a stabilizer if you pass the signal through one of the recommended DVD recorders and it will work better than most boxes you can buy that say "Video Stabilizer" on them. The wiggling edges are more annoying in motion video than in a still.

[crissrudd4554]

The wiggling edges are more annoying in motion video than in a still.

Tell me about it.

[jagabo]

Some animated ES15 examples:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/306272-Computer-video-capture-vs-vcr-to-dvd-combo#post1882662
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/319420-Who-uses-a-DVD-recorder-as-a-line-TBC-and-w...er#post1983288

[lordsmurf]

You simply need a better VCR, with internal TBC to clean up the image. There's just no way around it. At very best, you can use an ES10 (specific DVD recorder) for passthrough correction.

And I stress this: unplug when not needed.

[crissrudd4554]

You simply need a better VCR, with internal TBC to clean up the image. There's just no way around it. At very best, you can use an ES10 (specific DVD recorder) for passthrough correction.

And I stress this: unplug when not needed.

Sooo I'm better off without the ES15??

And is there any VCRs you recommend?? It it's one of those $200 ones forget it. Truthfully I don't have room for another VCR (a reminder that I have 3) but I figured I'd ask.

[jagabo]

And is there any VCRs you recommend?? It it's one of those $200 ones forget it.

You'll need and S-VHS deck to get a line TBC. They haven't been made in 10 or 15 years. Most are in poor shape. A fully reconditioned one will cost you way more than $200.

[crissrudd4554]

And is there any VCRs you recommend?? It it's one of those $200 ones forget it.

You'll need and S-VHS deck to get a line TBC. They haven't been made in 10 or 15 years. Most are in poor shape. A fully reconditioned one will cost you way more than $200.

Well I'm trying to keep it in the $100 range. That's partly why I've only been gambling on capture devices over the past few years. Do you still suggest I try the DMR-ES15?? That gif in the link you shared looked pretty good but I may only be seeing what I wanna see.

[jagabo]

Do you still suggest I try the DMR-ES15??

Yes. Or one of the similar decks.

That gif in the link you shared looked pretty good but I may only be seeing what I wanna see.

Those threads are full of other samples you can look at.

[lordsmurf]

You'll need and S-VHS deck to get a line TBC. They haven't been made in 10 or 15 years. Most are in poor shape. A fully reconditioned one will cost you way more than $200.

That's not true at all. Many, many decent ones exist for sale out there (mostly JVC, not Panasonic). But eBay isn't the best place to locate those, hence the idea that old VCRs are in bad shape. Remember, it's an online flea market, and flea markets are not really known for quality items.

Truthfully I don't have room for another VCR (a reminder that I have 3) but I figured I'd ask.

You're entirely missing the point. It's not just "another VCR". Your existing VCRs are garbage compared to the types of decks I'm referring to. A plain VHS VCR is worth maybe $50 at most, if anything at all. The decks I'm recommending are in the $250-600 range. Maybe $200 for a steal of a deal, but anything less is almost always trashed out, as bad as (or even worse than) the consumer gear.

Sooo I'm better off without the ES15??

You're better off with the ES15 as a almost-TBC (for non-retail excellent quality sources only), and the S-VHS VCR. Both are needed if you want quality. My "unplug" comment, in fact, was directed at ES15 usage -- a second to the advice above mine, on that point.

The alternative is what you've been seeing in this thread: crap quality. An ES15 alone may not correct that in full. It's still NOT actually a true TBC, though very TBC-like in function.

This is just how it is.

[crissrudd4554]

Well I already purchased the DMR-ES15 off eBay yesterday for $70 including remote so a $200 VCR is out of the question. But even had I not purchased the other I still am not taking that route. Let me remind you that the screen grabs from my friends DVDs I shared in my first post were captured on a 2003 Panasonic VCR, same model in the one pic I shared. I purposely purchased the same model VCR he had for two reasons. 1. The VCR/DVD combo we had at the time started getting faulty so rather than just get another combo deal which at best might last 3-4 years I decided to get separate machines 2. It was the same model VCR my friend had and in none of our discussions about this did he mention anything about TBC or anything else so to my knowledge he doesn't have anything additional working in conjunction with what he did. I hoped maybe this would have fixed the problem I was having but alas it did not.

So yes I understand that just simply because it's the same model it won't necessarily give me the same results but I think it partially discredits the notion that a $50 VCR is 'garbage'. So sorry another VCR is not gonna happen. I was initially reluctant to even buy the ES15 but because it had been brought a few times I figured I'd give it a try. So now I possibly just wasted money?? This is partly why the last 6 years I've mostly been gambling on capture devices. While some can be expensive most of the ones I've tried are in the $100 range. But now it's becoming like a chain link. First I'll be told to get this and have to spend X amount but then someone will tell me 'no to do that you'll need this' so I gotta spend this amount then someone will say 'nope those won't work you need this'. Frankly I just don't want to do that especially when there's not a full guarantee it'll fix the problem anyways. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be smuggish or anything. I appreciate all the suggestions everyone has given. However I've been messing with this for 6 years now and really just wanna be done with it. If DMR-ES15 doesn't give me what I want I'm just gonna stick with my two Dazzles. They may not be perfect but they'll get the job done.

[crissrudd4554]

Sorry that I have been MIA for the past few weeks but anyways I now have the Panasonic ES-15 (with the remote). So my question now is since it was mentioned I'll need the remote for this what are the preferred settings I should set everything to before I proceed with attempting to capture?? Thanks.

[crissrudd4554]

That question from last night is mostly in regards to this.

If I remember correctly, once the unit is set up all you have to do is turn it on. But you'll need the remote to get it set up -- setting the input and output levels, turning off the noise filter, etc. I believe the pass-through line TBC is active all the time.

[jagabo]

Press the Video button on the remote. Set Video -> Line In NR -> Off.

Press the Setup button on the remote. Select Video -> Black Level Control. Set Input Level and Output Level.

There is a thread around here discussing which settings are correct -- that don't introduce posterization. I took a quick look but didn't see it. If you can't find it, find/make a source with a smooth greyscale gradient, then try the different settings until you find which is right. Mine (it's been sitting in the closet, unused, for years) is currently set to Lighter and Darker, respectively. I don't remember if that is right.

[crissrudd4554]

Thank you for the response. I'll mess around with it when i get home!

[crissrudd4554]

Press the Video button on the remote. Set Video -> Line In NR -> Off.

Press the Setup button on the remote. Select Video -> Black Level Control. Set Input Level and Output Level.

There is a thread around here discussing which settings are correct -- that don't introduce posterization. I took a quick look but didn't see it. If you can't find it, find/make a source with a smooth greyscale gradient, then try the different settings until you find which is right. Mine (it's been sitting in the closet, unused, for years) is currently set to Lighter and Darker, respectively. I don't remember if that is right.

I'm not finding a listing for Line in NR. Which for which did you have lighter or darker?? I've tried hooking everything up. Currently testing with WinTV-950q. Video still looks fuzzy in the bottom half as before.

Further more am I hooking everything up right?? I have one of these cables connected to the DVD Recorder (https://www.amazon.com/Wyvern-Triple-Stereo-Audio-Video/dp/B016PY7TTY/ref=redir_mobile...a_1_15&sr=8-15) with one loose end hooked to a composite cable and the VCR and the other loose end hooked to another composite cable and my USB Capture device.

[jagabo]

I'm not finding a listing for Line in NR.

Press the DISPLAY button on the remote. That will take you to a menu with 5 tabs on the left: Disk, Play, Video, Audio, Other. Highlight the Video tab. You should now see Line-in NR to the right.

Which for which did you have lighter or darker??

I found the post where someone experimented with the different black level settings:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/380285-Where-did-I-go-wrong-What-am-I-missing#post2460874
You want the Input Black Level set to Lighter, the output Black Level set to Darker to prevent banding.

I've tried hooking everything up. Currently testing with WinTV-950q. Video still looks fuzzy in the bottom half as before.

Black levels will have no effect on that. NR might.

Further more am I hooking everything up right?? I have one of these cables connected to the DVD Recorder (https://www.amazon.com/Wyvern-Triple-Stereo-Audio-Video/dp/B016PY7TTY/ref=redir_mobile...a_1_15&sr=8-15) with one loose end hooked to a composite cable and the VCR and the other loose end hooked to another composite cable and my USB Capture device.

I don't understand. Why are you using a Y adapter cable? You should avoid using Y adapter cables except as a last resort. Devices that output audio and video are designed to drive a single device. Splitting the signal reduces it's level to half for each device. It might work but it's not optimal. It might be the cause of your "fuzzy" video.

You want to run a regular composite video cable (from the VHS deck to the DVD Recorder's Input. Then another composite cable from the DVD recorder's output to the capture device (do the same for the audio). Even better, use s-video cables when the devices support it.

VHS deck ------> DVD Recorder ------> Capture Device

If you need to split the signal for a separate monitor use an A/B switch (only one output is active at a time). Or, if you can, use one of the other outputs from the DVD recorder (s-video to one device, composite to the other, or component or RF). Or, some capture devices are designed to pass the signal through to monitor (ie, they have an input and an output). If none of those options is available to you, and you really need to use two devices at the same time, you can use an A/V distribution amp (though a cheap amp may reduce the quality of the signal).

[crissrudd4554]

I tried something different. I hooked the composite cable from the VCR to the In portion of the DVD Recorder and the composite cable from my USB device to the Out portion of the DVD Recorder and guess what....SUCCESS!!

[jagabo]

The time base looks pretty good on that.

There's banding (posterization) in the background grey gradient. Do you have the DVD recorder's levels set higher/lower?

The black level at the left border looks right, but the level in the main picture doesn't look dark enough. Maybe it's just that shot. Or maybe you need to adjust the capture devices video proc amp.

[crissrudd4554]

I'll have to check. In is a work in progress after all.

[crissrudd4554]

One problem I noticed Im having now is with the TBC the audio is about a split second ahead of the video.

[jagabo]

Are you passing audio through the ES15 too? In any case, there's no reason to worry about a constant audio skew -- you can easily add an audio delay later.

[crissrudd4554]

Actually I wasn't. Since it was only the video that I was concerned with I only used the ES15 for video pass through while just hooking the composite cable to the VCR as I would normally do. Part of the reason I did this was I was getting a feedback noise when I used the ES15 for audio pass through as well. Perhaps something wasn't connected right. Anyhow what would be my best option for an audio delay?? Further more I found this on another site so it sounds like this could be a common problem.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news/5185-audio-sync-video.html

[jagabo]

Passing audio through the ES15 shouldn't cause any type of feedback problem. You must have had something wired incorrectly. But I'm not sure if the ES15 adds an audio delay to match its video delay.

Most muxers have the ability to add an audio delay. For example, VirtualDub has the Audio -> Interleaving -> Skew option.

[crissrudd4554]

The 'noise' I noted was just the VCR idoling so I think it's supposed to make that noise. It's very subtle though. I burned a few short DVDs and you barely hear it. You'd literally have to crank the volume a bit to hear it. Anyways capturing a tape now. Hope to have it burned to DVD before I have to go back to work.

[Brad]

Expect to have clipped brights, as a result of the DMR-ES15's response to Macrovision. To avoid this, you would add a Macrovision remover in line before the DVD recorder.

[jagabo]

Buzzing can be a ground loop issue. Try things like plugging everything into the same power strip, grounding the cases together, etc.

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/index.html

[crissrudd4554]

Im just gonna post about this in here since i started this thread even though it’s a completely different problem. Anyways I’ve recently upgraded to a refurb Dell Latitutde. I’ve been trying some captures. A few things I wanted to bring up. First a capture I did yesterday I noticed in one of the captures had an extra frame in this one scene. Previous captures I did of this video had 12 frames in this section while this had 13. Is that a software, computer or device problem?? The device is USB2.0 VIDBOX NW03 while the software is Roxio Creator NXT 4.

Lastly I’m having difficulty adjusting volume level. I tried USB2.0 VIDBOX NW07 today and whenever I would adjust the volume in Manage Audio Devices the audio would kick up again when I pushed record. Furthermore I would have to adjust the volume while the video is recording and even if I get it to a level I want it at when I stop recording it just goes back to its default level in spite of what the devices properties say. What’s that all about?? Either this is device or computer related since I tried two programs and it did it both times. And Incase anyone’s wondering yes Im still using the DVD recorder as a TBC.

Again I know this is somewhat off topic but I just thought I’d just post here since this was my topic. Anyways hope to get help on this.

[jagabo]

Regarding the extra frame: you probably are dropping and/or inserting frames here and there and it happened to fall in that particular segment this time.

Regarding the audio volume: Look for an automatic volume control setting (AGC, night mode, etc.) and turn it off.

[crissrudd4554]

Regarding the audio volume: Look for an automatic volume control setting (AGC, night mode, etc.) and turn it off.

In the program or the computer??

[jagabo]

Regarding the audio volume: Look for an automatic volume control setting (AGC, night mode, etc.) and turn it off.

In the program or the computer??

Both.