interlace help

[edDV]

And were is the Frame Rate Tab?

If you encode interlace, both input and output will be 29.97 fps (59.94 fields per sec).

If you attempt deinterlace, the goal of the deinterlacer will be 59.94 fps. But because this show is mostly interlace with film effects background (telecine), there will be deinterlace errors. The manual link above describes what happens in the various deinterlace modes.

If you play the interlace file on your computer, select deinterlace-Yadif 1 or 2 in VLC.

What is your TV model? How is the media player connected to the TV? HDMI? Analog component? S-Video?

[edDV]

I would like to convert them to the smallest file size but still have good video picture.
...
Video Bit Rate 500 Bits Per Sec.

Handbreak can encode at a specific bit rate, but for optimal quality you should use constant quality mode (the default). Constant quality mode attempts to allocate bit rate for best quality for a given quality setting (default is 20). Test this first. For that setting, the mp4 file will be half to a third the size of the Mpeg2 original. The actual file size depends on the quality of the source file. Generally, an interlace (or telecine) source, requires more bit rate (larger file) than a progressive source.

[nymph4444]

Well wen I ad one file to it I then have the output box I click brows and pick were the video will go wen doen. But at the bottum I have to give a name.

Then I click ok or save I foget.

Now back at the mail window I can ad another file like you say but don't I have to click brows tab to pick were this file goes and then give it a name as we?

[nymph4444]

Could this be why when I used Format Factory and I set bit rate to 1000 kbps and then picked Interlace to YES
The video played back in two videos on on top of screen and one video at bottum of screen?

The bit rat is to low?

What sould a good bit rate be for mp4 that is converting a VOB file?

[edDV]

1. Find source file in "Source" select "Open".
2. Browse and name destination file.
3. For interlace out, all video filters should be off.
4. Press Start to start the first file encoding.



5. Find second source file in "Source" select "Open"
6. After it is analyized, select "Add to Queue".
7. Repeat for other files.
9. Click "Show Queue" to see the files in the queue.

[edDV]

Could this be why when I used Format Factory and I set bit rate to 1000 kbps and then picked Interlace to YES
The video played back in two videos on on top of screen and one video at bottum of screen?

The bit rat is to low?

What sould a good bit rate be for mp4 that is converting a VOB file?

If you don't select a destination, it will put the encoded file in the same folder as the source.

Bit rate is determined by the program. If you want a smaller file, increase the constant quality number.



Alternately, you could check "Average Bitrate" and enter 500 kbps. This gets you VBR.

Constant Quality will get you a better picture quality encode.

[edDV]

Could this be why when I used Format Factory and I set bit rate to 1000 kbps and then picked Interlace to YES
The video played back in two videos on on top of screen and one video at bottum of screen?

The bit rat is to low?

What sould a good bit rate be for mp4 that is converting a VOB file?

That was a settings problem with Format Factory.

Constant quality mode will find the ideal bitrate. If you want a quality h.264 output, I wouldn't go less than half the MPeg2 bitrate. If you can accept lower quality compress more.

500 kbps is too low for this type of source. Ideal will be between 1500 and 2500 kbps. Maybe more if it is noisy.

The DVD MPeg2 is probably around 4000 kbps.

[jagabo]

With bitrate based encoding you specify the bitrate but you don't know what the final quality will be. With quality based encoding you specify the quality but you don't now what the final file size will be.

They are two sides of the same coin: If you perform a quality based encode and it happens to come out to 1000 kbps, then perform a bitrate based encode with a bitrate at 1000 kbps, the two videos will look about the same.

Use bitrate based encoding when you want a specific file size. Use quality based encoding when you want a specific quality.

[nymph4444]

OK first off it worked.

Now why can't I type in 500 in the Bit Rate Box?
And leave Target File Size box alone?

Why want it let me do what I want or can I?

And the De Interlace slider on the website they say if you have a file that has Interlace video it will auto de interlace it and if it is not Interlaced video you have it will do nothing to it.

And that this can be automaticly doen by Handbrake.
This option sounds good but why is it have slow or fast what does this do why the slider not just ON and OFF??

And if you want all output file to be Interlaced you told me keep filters set to OFF what filters I don't see them?

[edDV]

OK first off it worked.

Now why can't I type in 500 in the Bit Rate Box?
And leave Target File Size box alone?

Why want it let me do what I want or can I?

You can. But 500 kbps will get poor results.



What bitrate did CQ mode give you? Check with Mediainfo.

[edDV]

And the De Interlace slider on the website they say if you have a file that has Interlace video it will auto de interlace it and if it is not Interlaced video you have it will do nothing to it.

And that this can be automaticly doen by Handbrake.
This option sounds good but why is it have slow or fast what does this do why the slider not just ON and OFF?

Read this part of the Handbreak Guide.
https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/DeinterlacingGuide

HandBrake offers several different deinterlacing methods.

HandBrake's traditional deinterlacer, "Fast", is a simple linear filter. It averages together a column of pixels above and below the current one being filtered. In this average, it
weighs down the value of pixels from the "bad" field being filtered away to
practically nothing, while boosting up the value of pixels from the "good" field
being preserved. The end result looks little better than simply line doubling,
with jagged lines along any diagonals or curves. In fact, it can look a little
worse than line doubling. Because the alternate field is suppressed but not
entirely eliminated, it's sometimes possible to see its ghost in the output, as
it subtly changes color and brightness to reveal the outline of an object that
shouldn't be on screen until the next frame.

This is why HandBrake now offers a
better method of deinterlacing, developed for the MPlayer project (the yadif
filter). This new method does not have the problems "Fast" has. There should be
fewer issues with jagged lines and no ghosting.

"Slow" looks to frames before or after to figure out which pixels to base its
guesses on. Then, when it guesses, it tries to follow edges in the current
frame. This means sometimes, instead of guessing based on a vertical column of
pixels the way "Fast" always does, it will follow diagonals, sampling pixels
that are, say, to the lower left and upper right of the current pixel. Most of
the time, this will be good enough, and it should look better than "Fast."

"Slower" goes a bit further, and looks to frames before or after again, to
tweak its guesses based on what it knows of the previous and next moments in
time.

Note that if you set deinterlace to off, then your output video will remain interlace. Then the choice of interlace or deinterlace is done in the player or display.

You never told us the make/model or your TV.

[jagabo]

There are many different methods of deinterlacing.
http://www.100fps.com/

[edDV]

And if you want all output file to be Interlaced you told me keep filters set to OFF what filters I don't see them?

To output interlace you keep all filters set to OFF. To output progressive set deinterlace to "Slow" or another selection.



The slider has nothing to do with deinterlace. It is a deblock filter control.

We still don't know if your "Buck Rogers" DVD is progressive or telecine. Check it with Mediainfo. If interlace (telecine) you would inverse telecine with the "Detelecine" filter in "default" mode or you could leave it interlace.

[nymph4444]

OK I think I have Interlace down?

Every Frame is made up of Two Feilds and eatch Feild by it's self is it's own compleate image.

And they make the second Feild start to be drawn wen the first Feild fads away to slow down Flicker to the eye.

Am I right?

[jagabo]

Every Frame is made up of Two Feilds and eatch Feild by it's self is it's own compleate image.

Yes, except each field is really only half an image. Which is why deinterlacing can be so difficult -- you have to create two full images from two half images.

And they make the second Feild start to be drawn wen the first Feild fads away

Yes, they are meant to be viewed sequentially, not simultaneously.

to slow down Flicker to the eye.

Broadcasters wanted the smooth motion and low flicker of 60 pictures per second but only had enough broadcast bandwidth for 30 pictures per second. So they compromised and came up with the idea of interlacing -- sending 60 half pictures per second. That still flickers noticeably under some circumstances but is acceptable if you avoid lots of sharp, high contrast, horizontal edges.

The case with film is different. If it was projected at 24 fps the picture would flash full off and full on 24 times per second. At that rate the flickering is very annoying. So each film frame is projected two or three times. Having the light flicker off and on 48 or 72 times per second is noticeably less flickery.

[nymph4444]

If you could stop the screen right after it draws the first Field you would see One whole compleat image.
So why do they say it is half an image?

I know it is half a Frame because two whole images make one frame.
So I gess if two whole Images make a Frame then One Image would be half a Fram??

[edDV]

And they make the second Feild start to be drawn wen the first Feild fads away to slow down Flicker to the eye.

Jagabo is right. NTSC CRT displays show a sequence of fields. The following only applies to interlace 59.94i or 50i source, not film.

Ideally one will convert 60 fields per second (480i or 1080i) to 60 frames per second (aka bob deinterlace) for a progressive television. But it isn't that simple. A simple vertical resize of each field causes vertical jumping and "shimmer" obvious during low motion. Instead 60 fps HDTV deinterlacers must adapt to motion. They use a bob for fast action and a weave for low motion. This isn't done for the whole image, the bob/weave or a blend of the two is done separately on any part of the image that is in motion.

HDTV deinterlace processors do all this in hardware in real time. Generally their performance is better than software deinterlacers like Yadif because equivalent processing will vastly increase processing time if done on a computer. This is why it is generally better to keep the file interlaced and let the HDTV display or DVD/Blu-Ray player to do the deinterlace work. For computer playback, software Yadif or display card hardware can be used for deinterlace.

The only times software deinterlace should be used are for extreme compression and/or internet uplink. Interlace video can only be compressed so far. Deinterlace is needed for extreme compression. Many internet viewers either lack a deinterlacing file player or lack user sophistication to deal with interlace. For these reasons, internet video is usually sent deinterlaced.

In other words, for 59.94i or 50i (non-film) source, don't deinterlace unless it is necessary. Let the TV or player do it.

[edDV]

If you could stop the screen right after it draws the first Field you would see One whole compleat image.
So why do they say it is half an image?

I know it is half a Frame because two whole images make one frame.
So I gess if two whole Images make a Frame then One Image would be half a Fram??

You can easily do this on a cheap VHS VCR connected to an SD CRT TV. Press pause and you see one field. You will notice half the lines (odd or even) are missing and the picture will show increased flicker. Diagonal lines will be stepped.

Now a fancy VCR will process the paused image into 480 progressive lines without flicker and many progressive HDTV sets will do the same. You need to use classic equipment.

[jagabo]

If you could stop the screen right after it draws the first Field you would see One whole compleat image.

No you would not. You would only see half an image -- every other scanline. Each field has only half the vertical resolution -- 240 lines. Although most CRTs had a beam width that almost 2 scanlines thick.

I disagree with edDV about what most HDTVs do. I think most of them perform a simple bob. That doesn't look to bad on LCDs because of their low-ish switching rate. It emulates a CRT pretty well.

[nymph4444]

OK I took a video clip into my movie studio 8.0 program by Sony and saw the Interlace.

The video clip is from a Batman movie and if I get the slider in the right place and move it with the hot keys I can get it.

If I get it in the right place I see Two compleat Images togather.
And yes the One image is faded.

So if two whole compleat images make up a Frame why do you say One field is Half an image?

Do you meen one image is half a Frame?

[jagabo]

A full NTSC image would be 720x480. An interlaced NTSC frame consists of two separate 720x240 fields. So each field is half an image.

Here's an example of a crop from a video enlarged 4x with a point resize filter (so each pixel of the original is 2x2 pixels in this sample) and slowed to 1 field per second:



On the left is the "real world" changing at 60 times per second. In the middle is how that would be displayed on an interlaced TV. Notice how each field is only half a picture (every other scanline; the other scanlines are left black). On the right are pairs of fields woven together into frames (30 frames per second) as they would appear in a digital file.

[nymph4444]

OK I get that 240 is One Field and 240 is another Field and Interlaced they are 480 and 480 is one Frame.

But when you look at just one Field it may be Half the Frame but you will see a compleat image.

What I meen is if some one is talking on screen and you could stop it right after the first Field is drawn you will see a compleat image of some one talking and they will look OK????

[edDV]

OK I took a video clip into my movie studio 8.0 program by Sony and saw the Interlace.

The video clip is from a Batman movie and if I get the slider in the right place and move it with the hot keys I can get it.

If I get it in the right place I see Two compleat Images togather.
And yes the One image is faded.

So if two whole compleat images make up a Frame why do you say One field is Half an image?

Do you meen one image is half a Frame?

On a computer monitor you don't see single fields, you see a frame made up of two fields or you see a progressive frame depending on the type of video.

Batman is a movie obviously. You are seeing a telecine pattern. From the telecine diagram above, the first video frame gets both fields from the same film frame 1. Video frame 2 gets the odd lines from film frame 1 and the even lines from film frame 2. Video frame 3 gets odd lines from film frame 2 and even lines from film frame 3. Video frame 4 gets both fields from film frame 3 and video frame 5 gets both fields from film frame 4.

So no you aren't seeing a single field with Sony Vegas. You are seeing two fields.

Also, there is no fading of one field vs the other. They are equal on the timeline.

[edDV]

Here is an example of a telecined movie (Paris Texas) viewed on a 480i Vegas timeline.

Note the Ford is advancing in motion each frame. Look at the motion vs. the trash can.

Video frame 1 gets both fields from the same film frame 1.


Video frame 2 gets the odd lines from film frame 1 and the even lines from film frame 2.
Note the double image. Check the power poles.


Video frame 3 gets odd lines from film frame 2 and even lines from film frame 3.
Also shows double image...


Video frame 4 gets both fields from film frame 3.


Then video frame 5 gets both fields from film frame 4 and the sequence repeats. For telecine video, you will always see two frames with split fields followed by three frames with both fields matched to a film frame (no split).

[nymph4444]

What I ment was this.

If there is a Guy talking on screen I get it 2 Fields make up one Frame.

But if you were to Look at the guy talking and just look at One Field the Guy would look ok right?

It is not till the one field of the guy starts to fade that the next field is drawn.

But if you did look at one field of the guy talking the guy would look ok I meen the picture??

[edDV]

What I ment was this.

If there is a Guy talking on screen I get it 2 Fields make up one Frame.

But if you were to Look at the guy talking and just look at One Field the Guy would look ok right?

It is not till the one field of the guy starts to fade that the next field is drawn.

But if you did look at one field of the guy talking the guy would look ok I meen the picture??

You need to describe the context of the player and display. A single field extracted from a DVD VOB or captured from NTSC/ATSC broadcast will be a 720x240 or 704x240 raster. If you displayed that as a still on a square pixel computer monitor it would look like this.



If you paused an old VCR to a SD interlace CRT monitor you would see a 4:3 image with half vertical resolution. A high resolution SD monitor would show a black line every other line.

[nymph4444]

OK I think I know were I am getting lost?

I am just talking about NTSC TV Broadcast.

Did they always show 30 fps befor they came up with Interlace?

[edDV]

OK I think I know were I am getting lost?

I am just talking about NTSC TV Broadcast.

Did they always show 30 fps befor they came up with Interlace?

NTSC broadcast (1954) has always been interlace 525 lines total (486* lines active picture) at 29.97 frames per sec (59.94 fields per sec). Before that it was monochrome interlace (various resolutions) at 30 frames per sec, (60 fields per sec).

NTSC never supported progressive. Instead, progressive was converted to telecine interlace.


* in the 1990's the FCC allowed 480 lines active picture as an alternate to 486 lines.

[jagabo]

But if you did look at one field of the guy talking the guy would look ok I meen the picture??

It would look ok in the sense that you wouldn't be seeing two pictures at once. It would only be half the resolution of the screen (vertically) though, 240 lines.

Did they always show 30 fps befor they came up with Interlace?

NTSC broadcast was interlaced from day one.

[edDV]

NTSC broadcast was interlaced from day one.

So were PAL and SECAM.

The concept of 24p>60i telecine predated NTSC by years. Goes back to the 1930's.