Hi-8 (8mm) to Digital

[Anon45]

I have a question about converting old Hi-8 (8mm) tapes to digital.

I have two converters: a Dazzle DVD Recorder HD (USB) and a Hauppauge ImpactVCB-e (PCI-e), which I just bought because I thought it would be better, but it isn't.

When I plug my camcorder (Sony CCD-TRV58 NTSC) into my TV (RCA RLDED3255-A) the picture is flawless.

My question is, how can I get that kind of quality on my computer?
I would have to crop the video...
So which software / encoder settings should I use?

Thanks!

[ackboo]

For ntsc tapes a Digital8 camcorder with firewire 400 output and passthrough is the easiest way. That will give you DV-AVI files that are easy to edit and process to a delivery format.
For absolute best quality you can try to go the lossless way but it is actually hard to get right. There was a similar question recently.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/377084-Followup-to-Hi8-Capture-Comparison
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/377243-Starting-off-with-Video8
And many more

[Anon45]

I don't have a camcorder with firewire. It took me a long time to find this one. *sigh*

[ackboo]

The Digital8 option is just an option, you can use your current hardware and try some captures.
Your camcorder is allright, check that the TBC function is set to ON and DNR to OFF. Use s-video. Then you can try to use your current capture hardware with virtualdub or amarectv. To improve on the quality you should try to capture using a lossless codec such as huffyuv or lagarith. Then you will be able to do some postprocessing.
Digitization, even with a Digital8 camcorder, won't give you exactly what you see on your tv but with the proper process you can get close.

[Anon45]

How do I add H.264 support in VirtualDub?

[techiejustin]

this probably isn't what you want to hear, but I did the exact same thing - (converted 8mm tapes to digital) and I found the easiest way was to buy a TRV480. The quality was better than any capture device. A Sony TRV460 also works - not all Sony Digital8 camcorders have the ability to playback analog tapes.

[Anon45]

I just bought an S-Video cable and the quality is no better, even worse. The video looks scrambled. I will try a Digital8 camcorder, but I can't really afford it... I found that the TRV103 works as well. Thank you.

[ackboo]

To add x264 to virtualdub you need x264-VFW. But don't try to capture using that.

[Anon45]

Also, I don't have an IEEE 1394 port on my computer.

[Anon45]

To add x264 to virtualdub you need x264-VFW. But don't try to capture using that.

Why?

[ackboo]

Because you won't be able to do any postprocessing or editing and because your computer won't be able to follow, x264 is a delivery format. Capture using huffyuv or lagarith. Edit these files, then use filters to clean the video, and then encode to x264.
Lossless capture using virtualdub is complicated and time consuming but the result should be a lot better than what you have now.

edit : take a look at digitalfaq's guides
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-avi-virtualdub.htm

[Anon45]

this probably isn't what you want to hear, but I did the exact same thing - (converted 8mm tapes to digital) and I found the easiest way was to buy a TRV480. The quality was better than any capture device. A Sony TRV460 also works - not all Sony Digital8 camcorders have the ability to playback analog tapes.

I've been looking on eBay for cameras and the only ones I have found so far have been models that came out before the DCR-TRV460. I've just been reading their manuals, and it looks like they don't support 8mm playback. I've e-mailed SONY about this to find out which models do support 8mm playback and conversion using i.LINK.

Edit: These are the models that came out after the DCR-TRV460:

• DCR-TRV840
• DCR-TRV830
• DCR-TRV820
• DCR-TRV740
• DCR-TRV730
• DCR-TRV720
• DCR-TRV530
• DCR-TRV525
• DCR-TRV520
• DCR-TRV510
• DCR-TRV480

Hopefully I can find one of those...

Edit: This is the cheapest one, which I am not prepared to spend that kind of money on...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sony-Handycam-DCR-TRV460-Camcorder-Video-Camera-FULL-BUNDLE-/27...EAAOSwoBtW2x-h

[SameSelf]

I am not saying you have received bad advice thus far. However, I am not sure if it is the right advice. Reading your OP and responses tells me that you have already spent a significant amount of money: Sony TRV58, S-video cable, and a Hauppauge capture card. Now, you just want the stuff you have already bought to work. And I don't blame you.

I have not heard anyone saying the Hauppauge card is a piece of junk, but theoretically your setup should work fine. You have a Hi8mm camcorder with both S-Video and composite (yellow RCA) out. You have a capture card with both S-Video and composite in. And you have an S-Video cable. The card captures to a 4:2:2 colorspace which is actually better than many cards which capture to a 4:1:1 colorspace (think 1/2 the color resolution a la SD vs HD). So I am curious. What is exactly wrong with the video that is captured using the Hauppauge card in your PC? What are you doing exactly? I would focus on getting that working first i.e. all the bugs and kinks worked out before running out and buying something else because you don't know what problem your trying to solve yet.

Also, when you play the video on the TV, do you use the S-Video or the composite out on the camcorder? Try capturing using the composite output as well as S-Video. Are there any differences?

[Anon45]

I've stopped worrying about converting it with what I have a long time ago. Well, almost a week. I just wasn't satisfied with the outcome, and I've tried everything I know, which isn't much. Using a FireWire cable just sounds easier and apparently better. The capture card was no better than the USB device. And the S-video was worse than the RCA cable. The video looked slightly scrambled, like I said above.

I still have my old camera and USB device if you want to recommend software and settings.

I used the RCA cables to connect it to the TV.
On the computer the edges are distorted and discolored, as to be expected I guess. The TV crops that out. It also has a "noise" line along the bottom. Which means I'm going to have to crop my video. Like I said I've tried everything and didn't see much improvement. I will upload some videos to compare.

[Anon45]

First Capture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAZVCHSII40 (Screenshot: https://forum.videohelp.com/images/imgfiles/lIb2RPrh.jpg)

Second Capture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8EfgXmu1us (Screenshot: http://imgur.com/027SOkB)

Third Capture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EnFNRXyl88 (Screenshot: http://imgur.com/NvZ5tNx)

I guess I'm just too used to 720p and 1080p...
Editing with Windows Movie Maker and uploading to YouTube changes the quality. Actually makes it better... but you can see the difference in the screenshots (before uploading).

[Anon45]

Oh yea! And these are the errors I get when I try to open the first two files in VirtualDub...

[SameSelf]

It sounds like the problems that you are unsatisfied with are related to the overscan that your TV doesn't display. For example, the "noise" line on the bottom is head switching noise that is a function of the alignment of the player heads and has nothing to do with the cable or the capture device. Getting another camcorder with Firewire output will not solve that problem. You could try cleaning the heads of the camcorder and seeing if that helps. Alternatively, you might try using your old camera if that was the camera used to record the tapes as the head alignment might be better. But some head switching noise is normal and something you really can't do anything about other than, as you already stated, cropping. IOW, the head switching noise is probably on the tapes, not something the capture device is putting there.

As for the other edges, unless someone here corrects me, that is somewhat normal too. Since it is only a few pixels wide for each, again, I wouldn't worry about it and just crop if you can't live with it.

In summary, it sounds like most of what you are worried about is the overscan area that was never meant to be displayed anyway.

As for your VirtualDub error, you need to install a VfW codec. Try Cedocida and see if that works.

[Brad]

I agree with SameSelf regarding identifying what's wrong with your current setup before investing further, but to clarify...

I've been looking on eBay for cameras and the only ones I have found so far have been models that came out before the DCR-TRV460. I've just been reading their manuals, and it looks like they don't support 8mm playback.

You're looking at it backwards. This feature actually became less common in the later model years.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/355121-Sony-Handycam-Digital8-camcorders-with-analo...gital-passthru

The passthrough feature (taking analog video inputs and simultaneously sending it DV-compressed out the Firewire port) isn't actually the same as the backwards-compatibility playback feature, but I believe all of the models with passthrough can play the analog tapes.

These are the models that came out after the DCR-TRV460:

Your list actually includes models that came out up to 5 years before the DCR-TRV460, as you're assuming that the model numbers simply increased year-to-year intuitively. The "generation" is actually indicated by the second digit, with the first digit indicating how high-end the camcorder is.

[KarMa]

Because you won't be able to do any postprocessing or editing and because your computer won't be able to follow, x264 is a delivery format.

You can process a video compressed with x264 in avisynth. Also when using x264 to capture, you mostly use one of the really fast settings so it's pretty simple to decompress. Compared to decoding an x264 with the "very slow" preset, jumping around in that video would be slow.

Capture using huffyuv or lagarith. Edit these files, then use filters to clean the video, and then encode to x264.

I don't edit my captures and instead just use trim() in avisynth. You can do pretty much anything you want.

Lossless capture using virtualdub is complicated and time consuming but the result should be a lot better than what you have now.

It's actually less complicated to use lossless than using something like x264. Just when you have a lot of captures to go through and space is limited, x264 is attractive. With my current settings I'm cutting the file sizes in to 50%-25% compared to Lagarith. It's not lossless but certainly close enough for me, and I can maintain 4:2:2. Also helps to have a recent CPU.

Use --tff in x264 if the video to be captured is interlaced, as it most likely is.

[Anon45]

It sounds like the problems that you are unsatisfied with are related to the overscan that your TV doesn't display. For example, the "noise" line on the bottom is head switching noise that is a function of the alignment of the player heads and has nothing to do with the cable or the capture device. Getting another camcorder with Firewire output will not solve that problem. You could try cleaning the heads of the camcorder and seeing if that helps. Alternatively, you might try using your old camera if that was the camera used to record the tapes as the head alignment might be better. But some head switching noise is normal and something you really can't do anything about other than, as you already stated, cropping. IOW, the head switching noise is probably on the tapes, not something the capture device is putting there.

As for the other edges, unless someone here corrects me, that is somewhat normal too. Since it is only a few pixels wide for each, again, I wouldn't worry about it and just crop if you can't live with it.

In summary, it sounds like most of what you are worried about is the overscan area that was never meant to be displayed anyway.

As for your VirtualDub error, you need to install a VfW codec. Try Cedocida and see if that works.

That really is my only concern (Edit: As well as "scan lines") Until I was told that DV-out would give me better quality. Which may be true, but I'm having a hard time finding a camera to do just that.

Anyways... Using Pinnacle Studio 19 gives me a pretty decent image, besides the overscan. I don't believe there's any way to crop it in that program. And like I said I couldn't open them in VirtualDub. I will try Cedocida as you suggested, and see if that works.

Thank you all for your replies!

Your list actually includes models that came out up to 5 years before the DCR-TRV460, as you're assuming that the model numbers simply increased year-to-year intuitively. The "generation" is actually indicated by the second digit, with the first digit indicating how high-end the camcorder is.

I had no idea. My bad. Good to find somebody that knows cameras.

Thanks!

[SameSelf]

That really is my only concern (Edit: As well as "scan lines") Until I was told that DV-out would give me better quality. Which may be true, but I'm having a hard time finding a camera to do just that.

Anyways... Using Pinnacle Studio 19 gives me a pretty decent image, besides the overscan. I don't believe there's any way to crop it in that program. And like I said I couldn't open them in VirtualDub. I will try Cedocida as you suggested, and see if that works.

Thank you all for your replies!

If all you need to do is crop the head switching noise and other edge artifacts, that is a very basic task that I am confident Pinnacle Studio supports.

I never use Virtualdub as an editor and neither should you since you have an NLE. I only use Virtualdub to test my Avisynth scripts and even then Virtualdub is often problematic, fraught with technical issues, and tries the patience of even the most stoic. I often have to completely ditch Virtualdub for Avspmod instead. What I am saying is that I would try to stay in Pinnacle, if I were you, especially for something as basic as cropping. I only use Avisynth for very advanced tasks that are supported better than in most NLEs. For example:

- Frameserving for transcodes
- De-interlacing
- Colorspace conversions (not to be confused with color correction)
- Resizing
- Frameserving to third party encoders

The other point I would make, if you study the above tasks closely, is that Avisynth is only on the front and/or the back end of my workflows. Once I am in an NLE, I stay there until I am ready to export for delivery. Round tripping is never recommended.

Hope this helps.

[Anon45]

...since you have an NLE.

What's an NLE?

I can use VirtualDub to capture and crop at the same time, I know that much. But I will try to stick with PS. I'm really not in the video editing mood right now. At least not on that project.

Thanks for your help!

Cheers.

[Brad]

Where are you going to be playing back these digitized files in the end?

[Anon45]

Where are you going to be playing back these digitized files in the end?

I guess I would like to burn them to DVD. It's roughly 150 minutes.

[Brad]

Depending on the disc player and how you have it connected, the overscan area may get cropped off when it's displayed on your TV, anyway.

[Anon45]

Depending on the disc player and how you have it connected, the overscan area may get cropped off when it's displayed on your TV, anyway.

Good point!

[ackboo]

And the S-video was worse than the RCA cable. The video looked slightly scrambled, like I said above.

According to the manual of the impact vcb e, in ArcSoft ShowBiz, under Capture there is an option to select Composite Video (RCA) or S-Video. Did you try that or do you only use the dazzle ? S-video shouldn't be scrambled. There should be a similar option in Pinnacle studio and virtualdub.

Also it would be interesting to know what kind of video you get with your current process. Try mediainfo, find the text and copy paste it here.


@KarMa Keyframe only codecs seemed to be easier to process, I never considered x264 as an option. I'll try if I get a chance.

[SameSelf]

What's an NLE?

Non-Linear Editor which is what Pinnacle Studio is.

[Anon45]

According to the manual of the impact vcb e, in ArcSoft ShowBiz, under Capture there is an option to select Composite Video (RCA) or S-Video. Did you try that or do you only use the dazzle ? S-video shouldn't be scrambled. There should be a similar option in Pinnacle studio and virtualdub.

Also it would be interesting to know what kind of video you get with your current process. Try mediainfo, find the text and copy paste it here.

Of course I selected S-Video. Selecting Composite Video would not work... I also do not have my PCI-e card anymore, as I returned it.
When I get back into editing this video, I will use my Dazzle with S-Video and Pinnacle Studio and see what happens.

I will also post the MediaInfo of the file. If it's even worth looking at lol!

Non-Linear Editor which is what Pinnacle Studio is.

Oh. Thanks!

[ackboo]

To give you a point of comparison, here is a DV-AVI sample from a Digital8 camera.
The mp4 is the cropped, lightly denoised and deinterlaced version.
You should get an at least equivalent result with your setup.