S-Video checkerboard pattern

[kenator18]

I've recently acquired a JVC HR-S7700 and have been transfering some of the tapes I have left with an S-Video cable I recently got.

I've noticed that there's a "checkboard" pattern present on the capture that is not present when I use Composite. You can find some screencaps from the same capture down below.

Any clues of what's causing it?

Much appreciated

Kenny

[dellsam34]

What's the hardware workflow and is the S-Video cable is coaxial type and well shielded, If you bought it from a Chinese market chances are a crappy S-Video cable.

[kenator18]

What's the hardware workflow and is the S-Video cable is coaxial type and well shielded, If you bought it from a Chinese market chances are a crappy S-Video cable.

JVC HR-S7700 VCR < S-VIDEO cable < Dazzle DVC-100 USB < VirtualDub 1.9.11

Composite looked fine, the cable might be the issue since I got it for extremely cheap... Can you recommend me a brand for S-VIDEO cables?

[themaster1]

it's like that for me aswell on the menu as long as it's not on the real images don't bother. You can try all the cables you want it'll remain the same imo but a shielded cable can't hurt

[dellsam34]

If you are in the US just look for Monster cable S-Video new old stock, It may or it may not fix your problem but a good cable is a must have.

[Sharc]

I've recently acquired a JVC HR-S7700 and have been transfering some of the tapes I have left with an S-Video cable I recently got.

I've noticed that there's a "checkboard" pattern present on the capture that is not present when I use Composite. You can find some screencaps from the same capture down below.

Any clues of what's causing it?

Much appreciated

Kenny

It is most likely caused by a poorly screened S-Video cable which "converts" S-Video to composite by its crosstalk between the Y an C wires. As there is no luma/chroma separating filter in the S-video path one gets the dotcrawl, similar as known from (poor) composite. Hence a poor S-video cable clearly spoils the benefit of S-Video.
See my explanations here:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403635-Panasonic-DVD-recorder-passthrough-settings...12#post2714801
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/411872-SCART-to-S-Video-adapter-strange-problems#post2708738

In the composite setup you have a Y/C separating filter (comb filter) in the loop which makes the composite capture look better than the spoiled S-video with the cheap cable.

Bottom line: Replace the crappy S-video cable by a decent one, and don't make it longer than needed (up to ~3...5 feet is normally ok for a well screened cable).

[kenator18]

I've recently acquired a JVC HR-S7700 and have been transfering some of the tapes I have left with an S-Video cable I recently got.

I've noticed that there's a "checkboard" pattern present on the capture that is not present when I use Composite. You can find some screencaps from the same capture down below.

Any clues of what's causing it?

Much appreciated

Kenny

It is most likely caused by a poorly screened S-Video cable which "converts" S-Video to composite by its crosstalk between the Y an C wires. As there is no luma/chroma separating filter in the S-video path one gets the dotcrawl, similar as known from (poor) composite. Hence a poor S-video cable clearly spoils the benefit of S-Video.
See my explanations here:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403635-Panasonic-DVD-recorder-passthrough-settings...12#post2714801
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/411872-SCART-to-S-Video-adapter-strange-problems#post2708738

In the composite setup you have a Y/C separating filter (comb filter) in the loop which makes the composite capture look better than the spoiled S-video with the cheap cable.

Bottom line: Replace the crappy S-video cable by a decent one, and don't make it longer than needed (up to ~3...5 feet is normally ok for a well screened cable).

Thanks for the information, I'll get a better cable!

[kenator18]

If you are in the US just look for Monster cable S-Video new old stock, It may or it may not fix your problem but a good cable is a must have.

Thank you!!

[The_Doman]

it's like that for me aswell on the menu as long as it's not on the real images don't bother. You can try all the cables you want it'll remain the same imo but a shielded cable can't hurt

Yes, i always noticed that annoying thing with the JVC menu/blue screen too.
If you search for JVC Checkerboard you find some similar threads.
If i use different cables/scart/S-Video connections there is no difference.
But it depends on the model too how more or less apparent it is showing.

I captured a few JVC's (PAL) here connected with S-Video to a Dazzle DVC100 (sharpness 0) and also with a Sony DCR-TRV120E DV camera.

HR-S6700 SVideo connector Dazzle DVC100:

[Attachment 79641 - Click to enlarge]
HR-S6700 SVideo connector DCR-TRV120E:

[Attachment 79642 - Click to enlarge]

HR-S8600 SVideo connector Dazzle DVC100:

[Attachment 79643 - Click to enlarge]
HR-S8600 SVideo connector DCR-TRV120E:

[Attachment 79644 - Click to enlarge]

HR-S6850 SCART SVideo DazzleDVC100:

[Attachment 79645 - Click to enlarge]
HR-S6850 SCART SVideo DCR-TRV120E:

[Attachment 79646 - Click to enlarge]

[themaster1]

The only models that'll not have this problem (on the menu) are the D-vhs and if you use YPrPb (pretty sure if you use s-video on these it'll be the same mess)

[jagabo]

Any clues of what's causing it?

That's what the player is putting out. Internally the player use a composite character generator and they don't bother to filter the chroma carrier out of the s-video luma signal. And the capture device isn't expecting the chroma carrier on the luma signal so it doesn't bother to filter it out.

You don't see this problem when capturing via composite because the capture device is expecting to see the chroma carrier there -- and knows to filter it out.

[Sharc]

Any clues of what's causing it?

That's what the player is putting out. Internally the player use a composite character generator ...

Interesting. Nevertheless one can get a similar checkerboard effect on the video with poor S-Video cables causing crosstalk between the Y and C wires.

[kenator18]

Thank you all for the insight. It seems like it could be both the VCR or the S-video cable. I wouldn't want to spend too much money on a cable if I'm not sure that is what's causing this issue. Based on The_Doman's post, it seems like it won't help anything...

[lollo]

First of all you have to determine if the defect is present only in the menus, which is normal, or in the real video, and in this cse you can try to change cable as first

[kenator18]

First of all you have to determine if the defect is present only in the menus, which is normal, or in the real video, and in this cse you can try to change cable as first

Can you guys see something on those frames? (all from one same transfer)

I think I do see a pattern on it, but I need other eyes to confirm lol

[lollo]

Post a sample of the video, please

[kenator18]

Post a sample of the video, please

I've posted on the first thread but I can put another one

[kenator18]

Post a sample of the video, please

Second clip

[dellsam34]

I don't see any dot crawl in the video for my aging eyes, I see interlacing artifacts because MPC-HC tends to screw with interlaced contents at default setting.

[lollo]

I do not see a clear checkerboard pattern as well:



As reference (https://www.avartifactatlas.com/artifacts/poor_yc_decoding.html):

[kenator18]

I do not see a clear checkerboard pattern as well:


[Attachment 79665 - Click to enlarge]

As reference (https://www.avartifactatlas.com/artifacts/poor_yc_decoding.html):


[Attachment 79666 - Click to enlarge]

Oh, well, that could be my eyes playing tricks on me. It may not be dotcrawl but it might be interlacing artifacts from the player I am using (PotPlayer). Thanks to all of you!

[Skiller]

it's like that for me aswell on the menu as long as it's not on the real images don't bother.

Same here. The blue menu background on these JVCs simply looks like that.

[rgr]

I've recently acquired a JVC HR-S7700 and have been transfering some of the tapes I have left with an S-Video cable I recently got.

I've noticed that there's a "checkboard" pattern present on the capture that is not present when I use Composite. You can find some screencaps from the same capture down below.

Any clues of what's causing it?

Much appreciated

Kenny

I have the lower model JVC and I basically observe the same thing. It's not the S-Video cable's fault, because I have 2 good quality ones.

[The_Doman]

Interesting. Nevertheless one can get a similar checkerboard effect on the video with poor S-Video cables causing crosstalk between the Y and C wires.

If you accidentally connect/configure your cables wrong you possible also can get similar effects/interference.

This can be a potential source of problems with the European JVC models when you are using a SCART to S-Video connection.
Some models (E.g. HR-S6850) annoyingly don't have a dedicated S-Video connector, so you have to use a SCART/S-Video adapter/cable.

The older models have a physical switch to set the SCART output to COMPosite or Y/C video and if you set it up incorrect it is of course easy to notice directly.

HR-S8600 SCART to SVideo Dazzle DVC100 and AV1 SCART switch set to COMPosite:

[Attachment 79677 - Click to enlarge]

The newer models do not have a physical switch for the SCART output, so you have to configure the output correctly from the SETUP.
Internally they are using a different connection method it seems.
If you set it wrong the resulting effect is not directly so obvious to notice from the setup menu.

HR-S6850 SCART to SVideo DazzleDVC100 L1/SCART output set to S-Video:

[Attachment 79645 - Click to enlarge]
HR-S6850 SCART to SVideo DazzleDVC100 L1/SCART output set to Video:

[Attachment 79678 - Click to enlarge]

But if you playing video (regular VHS used here) it sure will be noticeable, specially with strong saturated colors.

HR-S6850 SCART to SVideo DazzleDVC100 L1/SCART output set to S-Video:

[Attachment 79681 - Click to enlarge]
HR-S6850 SCART to SVideo DazzleDVC100 L1/SCART output set to Video:

[Attachment 79682 - Click to enlarge]

With a better/less saturated signal, it is already less obvious there is something wrong, specially if you are using a small/low quality monitoring display.

HR-S6850 SCART to SVideo DazzleDVC100 L1/SCART output set to S-Video:

[Attachment 79683 - Click to enlarge]
HR-S6850 SCART to SVideo DazzleDVC100 L1/SCART output set to Video:

[Attachment 79684 - Click to enlarge]

I can imagine this potentially causing problems with people using SCART/adapter-cables and/or are less experienced with their video equipment.

[kenator18]

Very interesting stuff! Fortunartely, the model I have direct S-VIDEO OUT input in back of the VCR so there's no need for a adapter. I'm a newbie at that stuff, if you couldn't tell.