BD3D2MK3D: Convert 3D BDs or MKV to 3D SBS, TAB or FS MKV - Support thread

[r0lZ]

Thanks for sharing your method, and especially for the Time add-on for VLC trick. It's good to know.

Two little points. First, the original BD is already compressed. MakeMKV doesn't re-compress the video, but that doesn't mean that the MKV it produces is not compressed. (However, there is no quality loss, if it's what you mean.) A really uncompressed movie would have consumed much, much more disc space.

Secondly, you have been lucky. Because your two MKV made with MakeMKV are already compressed, you cannot cut them everywhere. You have no guarantee that there is an i-frame at the point you need to cut them. Luckily, it seems that it's the case with Avatar 2 (as it's often the case when there is an abrupt change in the video, as I have explained above), and your method worked fine.

My method is similar, but instead of cutting the original BD stream, I suggested to cut the final, re-encoded MKV, because it was possible to ensure that an i-frame will be placed at the cut point (by editing the qpfile before the encoding). The result would have been exactly identical, but with a full guarantee of success (and a bit less disc space necessary).

[cdx47]

Congrats @enricojacko on completing your edit. Thanks for the VLC tip. Combining this with @r0lZ's i-frame tip should make my future edits much simpler and cleaner

[Ennio]

I remember also that there is a MKVToolnix option (possibly available only with the command line) to keep the audio alignment with the video when several parts are concatenated. I don't remember that option...

If so, will audio alignment be kept when cutting out a part after? And in this case, very near a point where the two originals were stitched together?

Because

Note also that you can split the video after a certain time-code. Unfortunately, the split point can be only at an I-frame, but with some luck

3) knowing the exact frame number to crop put, I used MKVToolnixGUI under "Multiplexer / Destination / Split / After Frame number" section, putting those values, so I obtained the perfectly trimmed MKVs
4) joined the 2 trimmed MKVs with MKVToolnixGUI "Multiplexer / Append" tool, remuxing at the same time my native language audio dubbed 7.1 track and also the desired subtitles tracks, I checked that all was perfectly synced and thankfully it was.

I remember something about cutting video with TrueHD.
According to this link https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1950804#post1950804 I understand TrueHD can only be cut at the "major sync frames", comparable to videocutting at I-frames only. When one'd cut out a videosection, I can imagine that - timewise - the cutting-point of TrueHD does not exactly match where video is cut at its I-frame. And consequently creating AV sync issue. I wouldn't know how far apart two sequential "major sync frames" are. Maybe close enough to stay inaudible?

In case I have misunderstood or missing something, please correct me.

[KGP2005]

If i dont have a 3D projector or tv yet, how can i test that my rips are 3D? Have a PC

[r0lZ]

@Ennio: You are right. In theory, the compressed audio formats are also divided by "frames", and therefore, the cut is not necessarily exactly at the same point in the video and audio streams. That can introduce a slight sync problem between the two streams. But usually, the audio frame is very short, and the sync problem is therefore hardly audible (a few ms). (BTW, it's why there is often a small audio delay applied when you cut a video (audio delay that can be shown with MediaInfo for example).

I think that MkvToolnix is smart enough to take that small audio delay into account when it appends two video parts together. It can modify the time codes of the audio track to compensate it (and, if I'm right, it's exactly what the --append-mode option does, or doesn't do).

Honestly, I don't know if the THD major sync frames causes major problems, and the duration of their frames, but I suppose that even if the delay to take into account can be minored the same way (perhaps with a little perceptible silence at the cut point?)

Someone more knowledgeable in audio and sync problems can confirm? Maybe tebasuna51 at Doom9?

[r0lZ]

If i dont have a 3D projector or tv yet, how can i test that my rips are 3D? Have a PC

You can use PotPlayer configured to "translate" the 3D format to anaglyph. You must have bicolor anaglyph glasses, and the visual result is somewhat crappy, but sufficient to verify the 3D depth.

Also, you can usually determine if a video is really in 3D by analysing the image shown in 2D. For example, in HSBS format, the 2D image will display two almost identical frames side by side and stretched vertically. In the less common Frame Sequential format, you should see something like a vibrating image.

It is more difficult to examine visually the AVC+MVC format (the native format of a 3D BD or of a MKV made from a 3D BD with MakeMKV), as most 2D players will simply ignore the MVC stream (containing the second view) and show you the movie in pure 2D. Is it the format you want to check ?

[EDIT] Ennio has replied when I was writing my reply. If you want to check a simple BD rip, he is right. But if you have already encoded the BD to SBS, TAB or Frame Sequential, read the first part of my reply.

[Ennio]

Someone more knowledgeable in audio and sync problems can confirm? Maybe tebasuna51 at Doom9?

Probably, but for me it's no big deal as I never take out a part in TrueHD audio, other than in the beginning. As sometimes I sync TrueHD from another source. Where indeed, in case a negative delay is needed, Mosu's software will chop off the unneeded audio and apply a residual (positive, of course) delay, if necessary.

I just felt to mention this in case someone would run into sync issues.

[EDIt] I removed my answer to KGP2005 because I wasn't paying attention. Sorry for any confusion!

[KGP2005]

If i dont have a 3D projector or tv yet, how can i test that my rips are 3D? Have a PC

You can use PotPlayer configured to "translate" the 3D format to anaglyph. You must have bicolor anaglyph glasses, and the visual result is somewhat crappy, but sufficient to verify the 3D depth.

Also, you can usually determine if a video is really in 3D by analysing the image shown in 2D. For example, in HSBS format, the 2D image will display two almost identical frames side by side and stretched vertically. In the less common Frame Sequential format, you should see something like a vibrating image.

It is more difficult to examine visually the AVC+MVC format (the native format of a 3D BD or of a MKV made from a 3D BD with MakeMKV), as most 2D players will simply ignore the MVC stream (containing the second view) and show you the movie in pure 2D. Is it the format you want to check ?

[EDIT] Ennio has replied when I was writing my reply. If you want to check a simple BD rip, he is right. But if you have already encoded the BD to SBS, TAB or Frame Sequential, read the first part of my reply.

I just want to test or get infomation if the file is 3D, when i have made a movie
I have newer made my own backups so im not sure how to found out if i have made a 3D backup

[r0lZ]

What do you mean with "when i have made a movie"? With which tool? In what 3D format? And right after, you wrote "a 3D backup". Again, is it a MKV? Made with what tool? BD3D2MK3D?

[EDIT] OK, I saw your PM. So, you are wondering if, after having used BD3D2MK3D to create a (presumably) HSBS MKV, the size of the resulting MKV (4.5 GB) is compatible with the 3D format.

In short, yes, it is. But BD3D2MK3D doesn't do a "backup" of your movie. It converts it to another format, and compress it more or less to save disc space. Therefore, the resulting MKV is certainly NOT an perfect backup of your 3D BD.

The small size of the resulting video depends of the original movie (its duration and if the image is clean line in 3D CGI movies or dirty like in old 3D movies of the 50's). If you want a better quality (and a bigger MKV file), you can modify the options in the last tab, and especially lower the CRF value. You can even use a CRF value of 0, but you will obtain an extremely big MKV file !

[KGP2005]

What do you mean with "when i have made a movie"? With which tool? In what 3D format? And right after, you wrote "a 3D backup". Again, is it a MKV? Made with what tool? BD3D2MK3D?

[EDIT] OK, I saw your PM. So, you are wondering if, after having used BD3D2MK3D to create a (presumably) HSBS MKV, the size of the resulting MKV (4.5 GB) is compatible with the 3D format.

In short, yes, it is. But BD3D2MK3D doesn't do a "backup" of your movie. It converts it to another format, and compress it more or less to save disc space. Therefore, the resulting MKV is certainly NOT an perfect backup of your 3D BD.

The small size of the resulting video depends of the original movie (its duration and if the image is clean line in 3D CGI movies or dirty like in old 3D movies of the 50's). If you want a better quality (and a bigger MKV file), you can modify the options in the last tab, and especially lower the CRF value. You can even use a CRF value of 0, but you will obtain an extremely big MKV file !

Okay, i can see now the confusion.... Yes i use BD3D2MK3D for convert it to mkv, so i can play it from my NAS/PC. But i still dont have the option to see if i really are making a mkv that are in 3D and are working, because i dont have tv/projector yet. So is there a way i can test that i made a working 3D mkv? Like some software or so?

AND..

Do i check in Stereoscopy?

[Attachment 73226 - Click to enlarge]

[Ennio]

Open your file with MediaInfo. At the video properties list you'll see Format profile MultiView_Count: 2

[KGP2005]

Open your file with MediaInfo. At the video properties list you'll see Format profile MultiView_Count: 2

Thanks. It says that with the one i tried to make.

[r0lZ]

Every MKV produced with BD3D2MK3D is in 3D. There are various 3D formats (some of them being "officially" MultiView), but BD3D2MK3D produces only the most commonly accepted formats Half-SBS, Half-TAB, Full-SBS, Full-TAB and Frame Sequential. If you want to be sure that the 3D format will be accepted by your hardware, select Half-SBS (or Half-TAB), as the 3 other formats require most powerful hardware players.

Do i check in Stereoscopy?

[Attachment 73226 - Click to enlarge]

Your screenshot shows Half-SBS being selected, so it's perfect. If you untick the Half option, you will get Full-SBS.

[cdx47]

Getting AVS error can't initialize Intel Media SDK session. I have seen this error before but I can't remember how to fix it.

[r0lZ]

Try to update your Intel drivers. If that doesn't work, set Settings -> MVC Decoder -> Hardware Acceleration to Disabled.

[cdx47]

Try to update your Intel drivers. If that doesn't work, set Settings -> MVC Decoder -> Hardware Acceleration to Disabled.

Thanks for the quick reply. Intel Media SDK has been abandoned in favor of a new system. Sorry but wouldn't updating my drivers make it worse? I seem to remember having to downgrade my drivers or maybe re-install my VGA drivers. Anyway thanks again I really don't want to run without hardware acceleration.

[r0lZ]

Honestly, I don't know for Intel. I have an AMD.

Anyway, the hardware acceleration is not really useful. Don't forget that it accelerates only the MVC decoding, not the re-encoding with x264 or x265, that is the most demanding part. Therefore, the global gain is minimal.

[cdx47]

Honestly, I don't know for Intel. I have an AMD.

Anyway, the hardware acceleration is not really useful. Don't forget that it accelerates only the MVC decoding, not the re-encoding with x264 or x265, that is the most demanding part. Therefore, the global gain is minimal.

Thanks. I'm trying one more thing then if that doesn't work I will turn it off.

Update: Got it working. I removed my display driver and it looks like Windows update automatically reinstalled the original driver. Any future driver updates will not be "clean install" and I'm going make sure I make a back up tonight lol. I very much appreciate the help you gave me today. Thank you

[cdx47]

I was re-encoding Solo A Star Wars Story yesterday and it looks really bad, like a low bitrate download rather than a full disc rip. I tried x264 down to CRF-16 both tune: grain and film and nothing makes any difference. Has anyone come across this disc or another disc that looks bad no matter how it is encoded?

[r0lZ]

Strange. Are you sure the source BD is correct? Have you experienced it before?

Can you do a test with another BD? Maybe it's the driver that fails.
(To do a quick test, you can edit the number of frames to encode in the __encode_3D.cmd file.)

[cdx47]

Strange. Are you sure the source BD is correct? Have you experienced it before?

Can you do a test with another BD? Maybe it's the driver that fails.
(To do a quick test, you can edit the number of frames to encode in the __encode_3D.cmd file.)

I have one I did the day before and it was fine. I kept the files so I will edit encode.cmd and reply in a few minutes.

[cdx47]

Strange. Are you sure the source BD is correct? Have you experienced it before?

Can you do a test with another BD? Maybe it's the driver that fails.
(To do a quick test, you can edit the number of frames to encode in the __encode_3D.cmd file.)

It's the same as yesterday. There is one issue I saw but that's also on the disc. The issues I am seeing on Solo are not on the original rip from disc.

[r0lZ]

What issue?

In the past, the Intel SDK was buggy, and multicoloured pixels were visible, usually around the borders. But that bug has been fixed a long time ago. Perhaps M$ has updated your drivers with a very obsolete version?

Anyway, I suggest to try again, with the hardware acceleration off. It will use the software decoder distributed with BD3D2MK3D, that should work fine. If it's OK, you will have the confirmation that your drivers are bad.

If you wish, you can disable the acceleration without having to regenerate the whole project. Just edit __ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs, and change the last parameter of the line beginning with interleaved = FRIMSource. Replace the "" just before the last parenthesis with "sw". Then, launch __ENCODE_3D.cmd.

[cdx47]

What issue?

In the past, the Intel SDK was buggy, and multicoloured pixels were visible, usually around the borders. But that bug has been fixed a long time ago. Perhaps M$ has updated your drivers with a very obsolete version?

Anyway, I suggest to try again, with the hardware acceleration off. It will use the software decoder distributed with BD3D2MK3D, that should work fine. If it's OK, you will have the confirmation that your drivers are bad.

If you wish, you can disable the acceleration without having to regenerate the whole project. Just edit __ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs, and change the last parameter of the line beginning with interleaved = FRIMSource. Replace the "" just before the last parenthesis with "sw". Then, launch __ENCODE_3D.cmd.

I still have the original rip to compare and the same issues occur with software encoding. It looks like a poor low bitrate encode. Also just when the "Solo" Title comes on screen over the city, a pixelated block appears underneath like something from Spider-man Into the Spider-verse. Maybe the same multicolored pixels you are talking about. I don't think it's a bitrate issue because of my encodes was almost the same size as the original file and the same issues still occurred. I will try and upgrade my graphics driver again.

[cdx47]

What issue?

In the past, the Intel SDK was buggy, and multicoloured pixels were visible, usually around the borders. But that bug has been fixed a long time ago. Perhaps M$ has updated your drivers with a very obsolete version?

Anyway, I suggest to try again, with the hardware acceleration off. It will use the software decoder distributed with BD3D2MK3D, that should work fine. If it's OK, you will have the confirmation that your drivers are bad.

If you wish, you can disable the acceleration without having to regenerate the whole project. Just edit __ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs, and change the last parameter of the line beginning with interleaved = FRIMSource. Replace the "" just before the last parenthesis with "sw". Then, launch __ENCODE_3D.cmd.

Driver updated from motherboard website (actually a downgrade) same issue. So I checkeed the .264 file and the issue is there from the time the file was ripped last night. So I'm going to re-run a fresh copy of your app on my ripped disc just to make sure.

Old Update: The new .264 file looks a lot better and also doesn't have the problems like before. I turned off hw encoding and removed aq-mode 3 just to be sure.

New Update: Although it does look better, the multicolor pixel band did appear again but at the bottom of the screen this time. I suppose I will have to wait until I watch the whole thing to see what has changed. Thanks again for the help

[Sh4ck]

Good night.
I have a problem with subtitles when playing HSBS movies created with BD3D2MK3D.

I give the example with the movie Avatar the way of the water. The image itself has certain subtitles burned into it. So far good. The problem comes with the forced subtitles. Despite seeing the image correctly, I see the forced subtitles of my language in duplicate. They are read perfectly with glasses but I see the same subtitle twice. On the left side of the screen and on the right side as well. Like when the two images are unassembled. I don't know if I explain myself. The image is assembled and can be seen perfectly but the subtitles are not. Do I have to put something specific in the subtitle options of the BD3D2MK3D menu?? If I play the movie in skybox VR with my HP reverb G2, although the forced subtitles look exaggeratedly large, a single subtitle is read and in this case I do not read it twice (left and right side of the screen)

Let's see if you can give me a hand.

Thank you very much in advance

P.S.: I attach an image of the options I selected when making the conversion

[r0lZ]

Let me explain. To be pleasant to look at, subtitles must be placed at the required depth in the 3D scene. If they are placed too far into the scene, they will penetrate foreground objects, and if they are too close to the viewer, the latter will have to constantly change the focus of his eyes, on the scene and on the subtitles. This is why subtitles, like the main image, must be displayed in 3D.

In the original BD3D, the subtitles themselves are always in 2D, but the video stream contains information (called 3D-Planes or Offset Sequences) that instructs the player how they should be displayed in 3D. The horizontal displacement of the right-eye subtitle relative to the left-eye subtitle determines the depth at which it will be displayed. Offset Sequences determine this displacement. Unfortunately, this system is specific to blu-rays, and is lost when the film is converted to SBS (or any other format).

This is why BD3D2MK3D can convert subtitles to 3D. They are then placed on either side of the image (for SBS), with the displacement specified by the BD3D offset sequence values.

To be visible normally and in their correct depth position, the player must process them in the same way as the 3D image, i.e. by dividing them in two, and displaying each half for the eye for which it is intended.

A good video player should be able to display the subtitle on the composite image before splitting it and resizing the two halves. When this is done correctly, subtitles are displayed in 3D at their correct depth. But the player can also display the subtitle AFTER splitting and resizing, and this gives the result you've seen.

Perhaps your player has a setting to indicate whether the subtitle should be displayed before or after the image split. If this is the case (as with PotPlayer), simply change this parameter. If not, there's really no good solution.

BD3D2NK3D lets you save subtitles in 3D (as explained above), but also in 2D. In this case, the subtitle will be displayed on the surface of the screen, with all the disadvantages of the bad depth, which can be a real torture for the eyes and the brain! Anyway, il might be a good idea to keep both formats, as you will be able to select the best one for the current player. See the bottom of tab 2.

But there is another solution. In the last tab, you'll see that you can burn (aka hardcode) subtitles into the image. The disadvantages are that there's no way to disable them, or to keep different subtitles in different languages, but all players will display the subtitles in good 3D, without you having to figure out how to set up the player. It's exactly like the Na'vi subtitles in Avatar. Personally, this is the method I recommend. Unfortunately for you, to use that method, you will have to convert your movie again. (Note that if you select a subtitle stream to hardcode it, you don't need to select it also in tab 2.)

I hope this helps.

[Sh4ck]

Thank you very much for your great explanation.

I continue testing and this time I set the subtitle type dropdown to ONLY 2D and they do appear correctly on my Panasonic Viera TV player. However, in Skybox VR with my HP Reverb G2 they still look good but huge (they take up almost the entire width of the movie theater screen)

I'm going to continue doing more tests and I'll tell you, but I repeat, thank you very much for the long explanation you gave me r0lZ

[Ennio]

Excellent explanation, r0lZ. Of course it's assumed that 3D disc are properly authored. Sadly, a lot of badly authored ones are on the market.
Also, I think 3D subtitling experience is subject to personal taste.

Therefor I'd like to refresh people's awareness of some BD3D2MK3D's built-in options. Which may have been forgotten or plainly haven't been known of.

First, it can be wished for to add extra subtitle depth or go for a fixed one. This probably requires some experimenting with several values for establishing which are best to suit a given video. But also with playback gear at hand in conjunction to viewing distance.
Secondly, if video has a lower, "big" enough black bar, one can choose to position the subtitles in it. Even when native 3D subtitles are well-meant & authored properly, I've learned some people find it easier to the eyes when the subs are displayed in black. Where the black itself has value, but also the possibility to fix the positions is appreciated. Which can avoid a possible unrest when viewing (too quickly) successive subtitles with changing H/V positions.

I have been experimenting and testing a lot with 3D subtitles on look & feel. I personally would go with native, properly authored depths and positionings. Being quite picky concerning font type/size and color usage however, creating whole new SUP streams is very common to me. Not only for 3D. But several times I did abandon on native depths and positions, instead favouring my homebrews in the lower blacks. Where viewing with other people made me more aware of very healthy alternatives at hand.

Another thing. There are 3D players (and TVs) able to adjust video 3D-depth. Maybe nowadays players exist that can also adjust subtitle depth independently from that of video.
As I prefer to play 3D from 3DBD ISO and like to handle things right at source, I have a question. Not ever having touched this, but is there a way to edit an OFS-file's depth values? Or create a new one, and put it back/replace in MVC? Obviously for SUP assignment in tsMuxer. When not assigning a 3D-plane, the (2D) subs emerge at screen-depth. Where often other (fixed, added or custom) values would be wished for.

[r0lZ]

Excellent addition to my explanation, Ennio.
Note that you can also move up the whole picture of a movie shot in Cinemascope, to enlarge the bottom black bar. That might be useful when the font is too large and the two-lines subtitles do not fit well in the original black border. Personally, I use this often to display flat subtitles from badly authored BD3D. Although it's not perfect, that trick makes reading the subtitles supportable for the eyes and the brain! Of course that doesn't work if you reauthor a BD3D without re-encoding the video.

To reply to your question, I had the intention to write another tool, that could read the depth values from an XML/PNG subtitle stream produced by BD3D2MK3D during the conversion of a subtitles to 3D. The XML file contains the depth value for all subtitles, and they can easily be edited with a text editor. But I have abandoned this project, because IMO it's much work for very rare occasions, and the depth values of the sequence without subtle will be lost.

Have a look at h264Offset3D in the BDTools package by Videofan3D. It might be exactly what you need, but I'm not sure. I have never used it. https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174563