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  1. Member Ennio's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Note that you can also move up the whole picture of a movie shot in Cinemascope, to enlarge the bottom black bar. That might be useful when the font is too large and the two-lines subtitles do not fit well in the original black border.
    Yes, I already recognized this possibility in case of and prior to video recode.
    As for your answer to my question, there's some things I don't understand:

    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    ...I had the intention to write another tool, that could read the depth values from an XML/PNG subtitle stream produced by BD3D2MK3D during the conversion of a subtitles to 3D.
    First off, to my knowledge BD3D2MK3D creates 3D subtitles according to already retrieved depth information from the offset planes. So why not directly read the depths from those? The answer probably has to do with me not fully understanding what exact info there is in a 3D-plane.

    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    The XML file contains the depth value for all subtitles, and they can easily be edited with a text editor.
    ...and the depth values of the sequence without subtle will be lost.
    I gather BD3D2MK3D uses these XML/PNG-files only internally for creating the proper offsets between left- and right-eye subtitle images.

    But I am curious how in a 3D-plane the different subtitle offsets are "assigned" to the target SUP images. Where I can only make an educated guess that it is done by lead of timings-information.

    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Have a look at h264Offset3D in the BDTools package by Videofan3D. It might be exactly what you need, but I'm not sure. I have never used it. https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174563
    Thanks for the link. I will definitely read on it.
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  2. Originally Posted by Ennio View Post
    First off, to my knowledge BD3D2MK3D creates 3D subtitles according to already retrieved depth information from the offset planes. So why not directly read the depths from those? The answer probably has to do with me not fully understanding what exact info there is in a 3D-plane.
    ...
    I gather BD3D2MK3D uses these XML/PNG-files only internally for creating the proper offsets between left- and right-eye subtitle images.
    The XML/PNG file is an intermediate step, that 's right. I need the PNG to convert the PNGs to 3D. But I've decided to write the <depth> tags in the XML for two reasons.
    1. The user may want to modify the PNG images, for example to change their contrast or luminosity. Of course, the PNG/XML must be the source of the new conversion, and it is easier for the user if he doesn't need to specify again the 3D-plane to use.
    2. But the main reason is that it is easy to edit the depth values in the XML to fix some wrong depth values. And in that case, the 3D-plane cannot be used, or it will overwrite the depths modified by the user. Therefore, the depth values must be stored in the XML.
    I agree that it is not obvious that the depths can be modified, as usually, the whole conversion is made in one step, during the preparation of the project. But the XML/PNG stream is not deleted at the end of the conversion, to let the user edit it and convert it again to the final subtitle stream, and remux the final MKV. It's a possibility for a power user, like many other features of BD3D2MK3D. BTW, it's also why there are many comments in the text files of the projects generated by BD3D2MK3D.


    Originally Posted by Ennio View Post
    But I am curious how in a 3D-plane the different subtitle offsets are "assigned" to the target SUP images. Where I can only make an educated guess that it is done by lead of timings-information.
    Not exactly. The MVC video stream is made of GOPs (groups of pictures), just like the AVC stream. The 3D-planes are stored as SEI messages, within the MVC stream. It is divided in as many small parts as they are GOPs in the video, and stored in the message of the corresponding GOP, so that the player can receive the information just when it needs it, to display the frames of the GOP and the 3D subtitle (if any) correctly. So, in each of these parts, there is one depth value per video frame. For example, if a GOP is made of, say, 40 frames, there will be 40 depth values stored in the corresponding part of the 3D-plane. Note that it's always the case, even if there is no subtle to display during the GOP (but in that case, the depth values can be undefined).

    My explanation above takes only one 3D-plane into account, but the BD specs specifies that there can be up to 32 3D-planes, for 32 different subtitle streams (although the same 3D-plane can be assigned to several subtitle streams.) And usually, all 32 3D-planes are specified, but most of them are totally undefined, or contain always the same depth value, and are therefore useless.

    So, what BD3D2MK3D does is just extract the 3D-planes from the MVC (and concatenate the different parts to obtain complete 3D-planes with as many depth values as there are frames in the whole movie), then it analyses the XML of the subtltle stream to know when each subtitle starts and ends, then it converts that timings to frame numbers, and it retrieves the depth values for that frames. The final depth is then selected among the different depth values corresponding to the subtitle (because, often, the depth of the subtitle changes during its display, for example because there is a cut in the video, possibly with an important change of depth of the whole scene). The final depth value is then written in the XML, and finally, the conversion of the XML/PNG to 3D can really begin!

    In the explanation above, I have used the usual term "3D-plane" instead of the correct term "offset sequence". Similarly, "depth" is used instead of "3D offset" or "offset value". But the processing doesn't depend on the terminology!
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV
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    Hi
    I need a way to output the left eye and right eye separately then put them back together again. I'm hoping there is something I can modify in the encode_3D script.
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  4. What type of frame do you need ? Full-size, or halved for HSBS or HTAB ? And why do you need to save the two views alone ? How would you like to recombine them ? To do what type of 3D video ?
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    What type of frame do you need ? Full-size, or halved for HSBS or HTAB ? And why do you need to save the two views alone ? How would you like to recombine them ? To do what type of 3D video ?
    Full sized TAB. I have a movie with one eye that has raised black levels. I would like to fix that then recombine them. I found a way to split the two eyes after encoding and maybe that's the best option. Although I'm not quite sure how I would re-combine them. I suppose I couldn't just replace:
    left = SelectEven(interleaved)
    right = SelectOdd(interleaved)

    with

    left = left.mkv
    right = right.mkv

    I think I will have to use ffmpeg to recombine them or hopefully I can just use mkvtoolnix.
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  6. You can use the two MKV as input, that's right (although the command is not correct) but the problem is that you will need te encode the video three times: the first time to create the two MKV, the second to fix the luminosity, and the third time to join the two parts. That means a significant quality loss! It's because, unfortunately, you cannot use ffmpeg or mkvtoolnix to recombine the two views. They must be re-encoded.

    IMO, the best method would be to edit the original avisynth script to add the command necessary to fix the bad eye, and then encode the full movie directly from the BD3D2MK3D project. You will need only one encoding. You should add a command like this in the script:
    right = Levels (right, parameters)
    (This is just an example. You may need another command, or several commands).

    The difficulty with avisynth is that it is not easy to see the result. Luckilly, AvsPmod comes to the rescue. You can load the two views in two tabs, and add the command(s) necessary to fix the problem in the tab with the bad eye. Then, you can modify the parameters of the command freely, and compare the result with the good view by switching from one tab to the other one. When you have a good result, simply copy the command in the avs script in the project, and encode it normally.

    Note that to load a MKV in an avisynth script, you will need to install the ffmpegsource avisynth plugin and use this command:
    FFMpegSource2("path/to/movie.mkv")
    This will create the default stream called "last". If you need to name it differently, use this:
    left = FFMpegSource2("path/to/movie.mkv")
    There are probably other plugins or commands that can load a MKV, but I know and use only this one.

    I agree that learning how to use avisynth is not easy and requires some time, but you will certainly get a much better result than if you re-encode the movie several times. And there is a lot of knowledgeable peoples able to help you in the avisynth dedicated forums here or at doom9.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by r0lZ; 5th Oct 2023 at 07:52.
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    You can use the two MKV as input, that's right (although the command is not correct) but the problem is that you will need te encode the video three times: the first time to create the two MKV, the second to fix the luminosity, and the third time to join the two parts. That means a significant quality loss! It's because, unfortunately, you cannot use ffmpeg or mkvtoolnix to recombine the two views. They must be re-encoded. ...
    Good luck!
    Thanks. I was hoping for a simple solution but the more I read, the more I realized it wasn't going to be so. In the end I used ffmpeg for almost everything. I split the BD3D2MK3D encoded movie into two mkv files, then I changed the levels on the problem eye. I think both of these were effectively lossless because the file sizes were almost identical. Then I used ffmpeg to join and re-encode the two mkv files. Finally I used mkvtoolnix to fix the resolution and re-add the original audio.

    If I have to do this again I might add extra ffmpeg commands to deal with the audio at the same time, or maybe I will remove the audio first then re-combine later. It would have been nice to be able to use the raw files created by BD3D2MK3D so that when complete it could mux them back together but I can't see any obvious way to do that. Thanks again
    Last edited by cdx47; 5th Oct 2023 at 08:00.
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  8. If you know already ffmpeg, you can probably use a ffmpeg plugin to insert the ffmpeg command in the avisynth script instead of the Levels () command, like explained in my previous post. That may be easier for you.
    And honestly, I don't think that ffmpeg is able to split the two views without re-encoding them, but I may be wrong. It's possible for JPEG images (with some limitations), but MPEG videos are much more complex.

    If you want to redo (almost) the same processing without using ffmpeg to split the two views, you can simply edit the avs script in the folder, like this:
    Code:
    interleaved = FRIMSource("mvc", "00009.track_4113.264", "00009.track_4114.mvc", layout = "alt", num_frames = 18668, cache = 2, platform = "")
    right = SelectEven(interleaved)
    left  = SelectOdd(interleaved)
    return(left)
    __END__
    (the rest of the script is ignored)
    Encode this script to obtain the left eye h264 stream. Then replace the return command with return(right) to encode the right eye view.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    If you know already ffmpeg, you can probably use a ffmpeg plugin to insert the ffmpeg command in the avisynth script instead of the Levels () command, like explained in my previous post. That may be easier for you.
    And honestly, I don't think that ffmpeg is able to split the two views without re-encoding them, but I may be wrong. It's possible for JPEG images (with some limitations), but MPEG videos are much more complex.

    If you want to redo (almost) the same processing without using ffmpeg to split the two views, you can simply edit the avs script in the folder, like this:
    Code:
    interleaved = FRIMSource("mvc", "00009.track_4113.264", "00009.track_4114.mvc", layout = "alt", num_frames = 18668, cache = 2, platform = "")
    right = SelectEven(interleaved)
    left  = SelectOdd(interleaved)
    return(left)
    __END__
    (the rest of the script is ignored)
    Encode this script to obtain the left eye h264 stream. Then replace the return command with return(right) to encode the right eye view.
    Excellent! This might form the basis of being able to semi-automate it in future. I know very little about ffmpeg lol, but I used the "FFMPEG Filters Document" reference site to work out what the commands I found were doing. Then I modified them for my needs.

    BTW looking at the bit-rates they are definitely lower in the ffmpeg re-encoded movie even though visually it looks pretty much identical on a large screen. But I agree with you about the potential for quality loss. So it occurs to me that if I do need to do anything like this in the future I will try to use the ripped disc as the source with ffmpeg all the way. At least that way I'm starting from the original source.
    Last edited by cdx47; 5th Oct 2023 at 08:26.
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    You can use the two MKV as input, that's right (although the command is not correct) but the problem is that you will need te encode the video three times: the first time to create the two MKV, the second to fix the luminosity, and the third time to join the two parts. That means a significant quality loss! It's because, unfortunately, you cannot use ffmpeg or mkvtoolnix to recombine the two views. They must be re-encoded.
    I had another look and yes the file is encoded 3 times. The results are fine and looks about the same as the original, but the completist in me is not happy. So I tested creating the left/right eyes from a frame-packed rip using CRF16 which is identical to the version I created with your tool and that works. So I can use that option to at least remove one generation of potential quality loss. But I'm going to try the AVS method to create the left and right eyes and maybe even try to modify the brightness of one eye.

    Edit: I created a test file using the Tweak command in the avs file for the left eye without having to separately export left and right eye files. Seems to work which means everything gets done in one go using a modified version of your script. If you don't hear from me again then it works
    Last edited by cdx47; 13th Oct 2023 at 17:25.
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  11. Perfect.
    Have you used AvsPmod to fine-tune the effect?
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Perfect.
    Have you used AvsPmod to fine-tune the effect?
    Nope, never heard of it but I wish I did lol. I just used a previous example you gave me to create very short output files then modded the mux file to only mux the picture. I will download AvsPmod because it could be very useful. I can imagine that I want transform an image or a particular eye in the future.

    I've learned a lot over the last few years looking at your batch and avisynth scripts as well as the json files
    Last edited by cdx47; 5th Oct 2023 at 17:49.
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  13. AvsPmod is some kind of GUI for Avisynth. When you know how to use it, it is invaluable!

    Thanks for the positive appreciation about the files generated by BD3D2MK3D. 🙂

    Have fun with your 3D movies!
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  14. Member Ennio's Avatar
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    Hi r0lZ,
    A short thanks for your crystal clear explanations. The SEI messaging for each GOP took a lot of clouds away.
    I am now reading up on the "h264Offset3D.exe" tool which indeed seems the thing right up my street.
    Will keep it short as I don't intend on further pollution of this thread.
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  15. MKV3D.track_1.264 file is good and displays correctly. After conversion to 3d SBS though I only get a green video screen due to the MKV3D_3D.264 being very small for a 76 minute long movie (7.63MB) and displaying video in green. Audio and subtitles play fine in final output. I turned off hardware acceleration and still got the same issue. I have a 5900x cpu so not sure if auto was using hardware acceleration anyways. The encoding process was very short - under 5 minutes. I have also tried x265 and 10-bit options with same results. Problem seems to be in the demux. Using BD3D2MK3D v1.33. I created BD3D2MK3D.log if it would be helpful.

    tsMuxeR version git-eecf6b0. github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer
    Decoding H264 stream (track 1): Profile: High@4.1 Resolution: 1920:1080p Frame rate: 23.976
    H.264 muxing fps is not set. Get fps from stream. Value: 23.976
    Decoding H264 stream (track 2): H.264/MVC Views: 2 Profile: High@4.1 Resolution: 1920:1080p Frame rate: 23.976
    MVC muxing fps is not set. Get fps from stream. Value: 23.976
    H264 bitstream changed: insert nal unit delimiters

    On another note, I had another movie get a buffer overflow saying it was due to audio track out of sync or being empty. I got around this by creating the video without audio track. I then used gMKVExtractGUI which created the file MovieName_track4_[eng]_DELAY 1ms.ac3 and then used mkvtoolnix v81 to add audio track back. BD3D2MK3D should have some way of getting around this issue.
    Last edited by Buzbee; 11th Dec 2023 at 11:35.
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  16. For the green video, I suspect a problem with avisynth. Are you sure it is correctly installed?

    And what is your source? What movie? Have you already converted successfully a movie with BD3D2MK3D?

    Same questions for the empty audio track.

    Note that there are several (mostly asian) BD with an empty audio track, but also with a correct track. To avoid the problem, it is normally sufficient to deselect the bad track in tab 2 (or, better, to not include it in MakeMKV).

    Unfortunately, the buffer underflow occurs when the movie is demuxed with tsMuxeR. It's not my job, and BD3&2MK3D cannot fix that bug.
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  17. I have converted over 60 with BD3D2MK3D in the 3 last days. Those were the only 2 I had issues with converting. The green video issue is with the title Finnish 3D Blu-ray version of Little Brother, Big Trouble: A Christmas Adventure (English title) called Niko 2 - lentäjäveljekset.

    There seems to be 2 developments of AviSynth+ the recommended version from the help tab takes you to

    https://github.com/pinterf/AviSynthPlus/releases which is Avisynth+ r2772-MT (20181220)

    and the link you provided to the developers website:

    https://github.com/AviSynth/AviSynthPlus/releases AviSynth+ 3.7.3

    which one should I be using? I was using AviSynth 2.6 I believe since it was showing in Programs and Features although I see I had downloaded AviSynthPlus-MT-r2772-with-vc_redist.exe with BD3D2MK3D back in July when I first installed BD3D2MK3D. I have installed 3.7.3 now. How does BD3D2MK3D know which one to use when multiple versions are installed now?

    UPDATE: I tried all 3 versions of AviSynth (I uninstalled each and rebooted with only 1 installed) and I got the same green screen. I clicked on _ENCODE_2D_LAUNCHER.cmd and the picture is fine for 2d mkv (encoding in 2d took over 20 minutes) 3D runs only 5-10 minutes so I know if 3d is going to be green just by the encoding time before it finishes. I noticed it was missing the 3 options of

    --range tv --colorprim bt709 --frame-packing 3

    maybe I can change one or more of these options to make 3d work properly? I believe the --frame packing 3 is for SBS video. What are other options I could try for --range and --colorprim?
    Last edited by Buzbee; 12th Dec 2023 at 03:47.
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  18. Hum, given the fact that only 2/60 conversions went wrong, I can only assume that something is wrong in the original encoding. Unfortunately, I don't have Little Brother, Big Trouble: A Christmas Adventure, so I cannot test myself. But since the encoding is very short, I suppose that it's the encoder that receives the green picture. It's therefore a problem with the demux, or most probably, witth the decoding of the MVC video, but probably not by avisynth itself. (The 3 versions should give the same result, as they are used for basic things only.)

    Anyway, the problem is certainly not due to the range or colorprim arguments, as they are used only to add the colorimetry info in the video header, and are never used to determine how to encode or decode the video. You can certainly omit these options without problem (or even change their values, without other effect than a slightly wrong color with some players). And, it's true, frame-packing is used only to specify the 3D format. Anyway, the options for the mux are not relevant, as the video track is certainly already entirely green, before being muxed.

    IMO, the best thing to test is to try another AVC/MVC decoder. If you have installed BD3D2MK3D a long time ago, you may still have the discontinued DGMVCSource decoder. If it's the case, you should be able to select it with the menu Settings -> MVC Decoder -> Use DGMVCSource. Select that option and cross your fingers.

    Let me know if that helped.
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  19. v1.17 was the last version to have Settings -> MVC Decoder -> Use DGMVCSource as an option. I tried that version. The encoding time went up from 5-10 mins (v1.33) to 25-30 mins (v1.17). I knew this was the solution. I waited the 27 minutes and Voila - IT WORKED! Makes me wonder why you removed it after it was deprecated. It still seems useful.

    Googling green screen and BD3D2MK3D I came across this forum and the solution was to disable hardware acceleration. If it had been left in, I would have definitely tried changing that option since they were both under MVC Decoder. Since it is unlikely you will add it back, I will keep v1.17 as my backup option for when I have similar issues. Thanks for your help!

    Now I am trying to demux TrueHD audio track from makeMKV mkv file and getting error:

    Running in fast mode
    Keeping dialnorm
    MKV, 1 video track, 5 audio tracks, 3 subtitle tracks, 2:27:22, 24p /1.001
    1: h264/MVC (right eye), English, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
    2: TrueHD (Atmos), English, 7.1 channels, 48kHz, dialnorm: -31dB
    TrueHD Atmos 7.1
    3: AC3 EX, English, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -31dB
    AC-3 EX 5.1
    4: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -31dB, 6ms
    Commentary by Director Christopher McQuarrie/Actor Tom Cruise
    5: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -31dB, 6ms
    Commentary by Director Christopher McQuarrie/Editor Eddie Hamilton
    6: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -31dB, 6ms
    Commentary by Composer Lorne Balfe
    7: Subtitle (PGS), English, English Forced (PGS)
    8: Subtitle (PGS), English, English (PGS)
    9: Subtitle (PGS), English, English SDH (PGS)
    This audio conversion is not supported.
    *** eac3to ERROR:
    (BD3D2MK3D) 1 %

    I updated eac3to to 3.42 (latest) by dropping and dragging files and overwriting the files in the toolset directory.
    Same issue.
    Last edited by Buzbee; 12th Dec 2023 at 17:06.
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  20. Atmos is normally never present on a 3DBD. You should unselect it.
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  21. Transformers: Dark side of the Moon, Madagascar 3, Megamind, and most of the Dreamworks 3D animation catalog have TrueHD 7.1 on 3DBD. Not sure if it is Atmos. Most 3D Blu-ray titles use DTS-Master 5.1 though. You can add audio tracks from 2D Blu-rays onto 3D Blu-rays. I do that usually with foreign 3D Blu-rays that do not have English audio but an English audio track exists for it on a 2D Blu-ray.
    Last edited by Buzbee; 13th Dec 2023 at 16:45.
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Atmos is normally never present on a 3DBD. You should unselect it.
    There's quite a few 3D movies with Atmos. What's strange is that BD3D2MK3D has problems with some Atmos tracks but not with others. For the problem files I just continue with the picture. Then I extract the Atmos track separately and either add it to the MK3D folder for muxing or just manually mux it with afterwards with mkvtoolnix.
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  23. Hum, have you an example of a 3DBD with atmos (natively, of course)? THD 7.1 is not atmos.

    I've never had a problem with any soundtrack, with the rare exception of the eAC3. But it's true that I usually only keep the 5.1 part of the 7.1 tracks.
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  24. Member Ennio's Avatar
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    There are quite some 3D blurays with object based audio.

    https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=309955
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Hum, have you an example of a 3DBD with atmos (natively, of course)? THD 7.1 is not atmos.

    I've never had a problem with any soundtrack, with the rare exception of the eAC3. But it's true that I usually only keep the 5.1 part of the 7.1 tracks.
    I can't exactly remember which ones now but I think I had issues with the Transformers movies.
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  26. Member Ennio's Avatar
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    Transformers and 3D does ring a bell. IIRC, remuxing one of these 3D titles caused much issues because of seamless branching.
    Where I don't think object based audio is a problem for 3D muxing (done it many times, both into mkv and 3DBD ISO). But if the disc is indeed authored using seamless branching, maybe an initial demux with eac3to from the disc's native folder structure (not the mkv) into properly "gap-processed" elementary streams will steer away from the issue?
    Last edited by Ennio; 14th Dec 2023 at 05:34.
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    Originally Posted by Ennio View Post
    Transformers and 3D does ring a bell. IIRC, remuxing one of these 3D titles caused much issues because of seamless branching.
    Where I don't think object based audio is a problem for 3D muxing (done it many times, both into mkv and 3DBD ISO). But if the disc is indeed authored using seamless branching, maybe an initial demux with eac3to from the disc's native folder structure (not the mkv) into properly "gap-processed" elementary streams will steer away from the issue?
    When processing problem discs, eac3to just hangs. To be fair I wasn't using the latest version of BD3D2MK3D at first but when I started using it there was some improvement. I don't feel like ripping a whole disc again to check for this issue, especially as I am not 100% certain of the disc, but we will see.
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  28. Ok, if anyone can recommend a BD3D that can't be neatly demuxed, I'd be happy to test it with BD3D2MK3D. Thanks in advance.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV
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  29. Member
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Ok, if anyone can recommend a BD3D that can't be neatly demuxed, I'd be happy to test it Thanks in advance.
    Looking at some old logs, it looks like Valerian previously had an issue with version 1.32 but I just tried it again with version 1.33 and it works. I don't see anything in the change log to indicate why this would be the case but it does prove what I said above about seeing less issues with the latest version.
    Last edited by cdx47; 15th Dec 2023 at 04:09.
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