extracted files with CUETools

[blanc]

Hi,

I’m using CUETools to extract FLAC files from CUE+FLAC pairs. After extraction I get this message:

cue: AR: offset 12, rip accurate (23/84), CTDB: verified OK, confidence 295.

Can I make sure the extracted FLAC files are identical with the original CDs?

[cholla]

I usually rip CDs with EAC to .wav format.
EAC can rip to FLAC format.
There is a long process with EAC to get an accurate offset for each drive.
It is a PITA to do all of it.
In the end it usually matches what Accurate Rip detects.
So much easier to let Accurate Rip make the offset setting.

This is what AI says about the cuetools report:

This string is a summary line from a
CUETools verification report, which confirms that your CD rip is bit-perfect by comparing it against online databases.
The specific terms in your cue line mean:

AR: offset 12: AccurateRip found a match for your disc by applying a relative offset of 12 samples. This often happens if your CD is from a different pressing than the original entry in the database.
rip accurate (23/84): This refers to the AccurateRip database results.
23: Your rip matches the checksums of 23 other people's submissions.
84: There are a total of 84 submissions for this CD in the database.
CTDB: verified OK: Your rip was also successfully verified against the CUETools Database, an alternative to AccurateRip that can often "repair" minor errors using parity data if a rip isn't perfect.
confidence 295: This is a very high reliability score from the CUETools Database, indicating that 295 other users have submitted identical rip data for this disc.
In short, your rip is perfectly accurate and highly verified across multiple independent sources.

Foobar2000 also has a Utilities/Verify Integrity" It will just say the FLAC file is OK with the MID & CRC numbers.

[blanc]

Thanks. Another problem is the output folder can’t be changed. The default one „use template“ is on C. How to change it?

[hello_hello]

I haven't used CUETools in a long time but there's a database of drive offsets here and quite a few of them have an offset of +12.
https://www.accuraterip.com/driveoffsets.htm
If I remember correctly EAC can be configured to pull the drive offset from the AccurateRip database. I don't know if CueTools can do the same or if it needs to be set manually.

My vague understanding of it is that drives generally over-read and read some of the lead-in and/or lead-out area on the disc, and setting the correct offset should ensure it's starting from the correct place in respect to ripping the audio. Aside from adding or missing a few samples of audio though, which would probably be silence, I don't think it makes any difference to the drive's ability to rip the audio accurately. The correct offset just makes it easier to compare rips.

[cholla]

If the Output folder can be changed I could not figure it out.

If I remember correctly EAC can be configured to pull the drive offset from the AccurateRip database.

EAC will attempt this automatically if the Check this Use "AccurateRip with this drive in Drive Options Offset/Speed".
It is best to use a CD in the https://www.accuraterip.com/keydiscs.htm but this is no longer update so you may find one that Accuraterip accepts for setting EAC. Dertimining the offsets manually.

I don't know if CueTools can do the same or if it needs to be set manually.

There is an icon & a check box to use Accuraterip.

My vague understanding of it is that drives generally over-read and read some of the lead-in and/or lead-out area on the disc, and setting the correct offset should ensure it's starting from the correct place in respect to ripping the audio. Aside from adding or missing a few samples of audio though, which would probably be silence, I don't think it makes any difference to the drive's ability to rip the audio accurately. The correct offset just makes it easier to compare rips.

The offsets may make a difference & I set them just in case.
Overall the amount is so small I doubt an audiophile with "golden ears" can tell the difference.
I also believe on a bit by bit comparison it will make a difference.

[hello_hello]

I haven't ripped a CD in quite a while, but when I do I use FB2K and I've set the drive offsets because I could, but if all the drive offset does is adjust the position on the CD where the ripping starts, aside from the starting position, the ripped audio should still be exactly what its supposed to be.

I did a quick google and found the following info in the tutorial for ripping CDs with foobar2000.
https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Ripping_CDs_with_foobar2000#Drive_settings

Read offset correction - Here you can enter the read offset correction value (in samples) for your drive. The 'auto' button will query the AccurateRip database and will fill in the offset value automatically if your drive is listed there. A negative number corrects a positive offset, and a positive number corrects a negative offset.

Most CD drives, when asked to read audio samples from a certain position on the disc, actually read a very tiny fraction of a second ahead or behind where they were supposed to. This offset is typically consistent for a given drive model, and there's a list of known offsets in the AccurateRip database. If you enter an offset correction here, it can be used to shift the audio data as it is ripped, ensuring the ripped track boundaries are consistent with other rips, and simplifying AccurateRip verification of the ripped audio. However, entering a non-zero offset means losing some samples from the very beginning or end of the rip, and if the drive can't "overread" (many can't), it means filling in the other end with zeroes (digital silence)—although almost always, the samples at both ends of the disc are all zeroes or nearly-silent noise anyway.

[blanc]

Back to the output folder topic. The default template format is:

%music%\Converted\%artist%\[%year% - ]%album%[ '('disc %discnumberandname%')'][' ('%releasedateandlabel%')'][' ('%unique%')']\%artist% - %album%.cue

which comes from Foobar2000, but I can’t see any destination drive information, can you?

[cholla]

all the drive offset does is adjust the position on the CD where the ripping starts, aside from the starting position, the ripped audio should still be exactly what its supposed to be.

entering a non-zero offset means losing some samples from the very beginning or end of the rip, and if the drive can't "overread" (many can't), it means filling in the other end with zeroes (digital silence)—although almost always, the samples at both ends of the disc are all zeroes or nearly-silent noise anyway.

I believe you have this incorrect.My understanding it it is the hardware or optical drive that is off or offset.
The software like foobar2000,EAC, or cuetools can correct the read offset of the drive with a software method.
This rips the CD at the zero position. That is where the CD should be ripped.
So there are no lost samples.
It is when the offset of the drive is used with no correction that samples are lost from the beginning or end of the CD.
To further explain: If Accuraterip suggests or is allowed to make the offset for example +6 the drive is factory set at -6.
This corrects the drive read to zero.

[hello_hello]

I just copied the information on the FB2k tutorial, but this seems logical to me based on that info....

Changing the offset of a drive must require it to "over read". That is, if the audio data begins at point "X" and ends at point "Y", but the dive is offset by -24, a drive offset of + 24 means you want it read the audio on the disc from X+24 through to Y+24 (from the drive's perspective), but if it won't over-read and refuses to read past "Y", a fraction of a second can't be read at the end.
If you don't set a drive offset, the drive would read from X-24 through to Y-24, even though from the drive's perspective it's reading from X to Y.

That's the way I interpreted it, but I could be wrong.

[cholla]

Thanks. Another problem is the output folder can’t be changed. The default one „use template“ is on C. How to change it?

Using CUERipper:
Click on the default destination line.
Replace %music% with "location of your destination folder"(without quotes).

[Attachment 91605 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 91606 - Click to enlarge]
I put it on Tracks & selected Reload.

[Attachment 91607 - Click to enlarge]

[cholla]

Changing the offset of a drive must require it to "over read".

I do not believe an overread by the drive happens.

That is, if the audio data begins at point "X" and ends at point "Y"

The audio data on the CD disc is this way.
Zero offset to zero offset.

The drive is offset by -24

In this example the drive is offset by -24. This is the way the drives hardware or firmware will always be.
Unless a firmware flash might change this. (I'm not sure that would change this.)

a drive offset of + 24 means you want it read the audio on the disc from X+24 through to Y+24 (from the drive's perspective)

This is where the confusion comes in.
You still want the drive to read the data on the CD disk from point "X" to point "Y"
This data is always the in same place on a pressed CD disc.
The +24 offset makes the drive read the beginning point "X" at zero offset & the end point "Y" at zero offset.
This way you get a zero to zero copy like what is on the pressed CD disc.

This is my understanding of this.
I could also be wrong.

It has been a long time since I did this;
I have done the EAC DriveOptions/Create offset test CD.
making two CDR discs.
One without any offset & one with the correct offset.
Then compared them.
This gave me a better understanding of what I believe was happening.

If interested I have an "Anciect" EAC guide in .PDF.
Not written by Me.
It is confusing in places.This is why I did not post it.
It also has some different settings from newer EAC versions.

[hello_hello]

https://dbpoweramp.com/spoons-audio-guide-cd-ripping

Drives and Features

Every drive has an offset, if two different (model) CD drives were to read the same track the results from the 2nd drive would be slightly offset by a number of samples, because the track starting point would be different...

Over-reading enables a drive with a non-zero offset to recover the last few samples (if has a + offset), or the first few samples (for a - offset), as these samples will appear to the drive in either the lead out, or lead in area. Not many drives are able to over-read, but fear not as these audio samples are nearly always silence.

[blanc]

Thanks. Another problem is the output folder can’t be changed. The default one „use template“ is on C. How to change it?

Using CUERipper:
Click on the default destination line.
Replace %music% with "location of your destination folder"(without quotes).

[Attachment 91605 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 91606 - Click to enlarge]
I put it on Tracks & selected Reload.

[Attachment 91607 - Click to enlarge]

Thanks. I don’t use CUEripper but it seems it works with CUETools just like with CUEripper because of the same Foobar2000 format.

Concerning offset report, I don’t care about details very much but think the sound quality is perfect as long as „CTDB: verified OK“ appears. Is that correct?

[cholla]

@ blanc,
I will have to give it a try with CUETools.exe but you posted it does work.
I used CueRipper.exe because I thought you were starting with a CD disc.
Are the "CUE+FLAC pairs" a rip from a CD disc to a single FLAC file of the whole CD with a .CUE file ?
If so how was this created ?
I would test with one but I do not have one.

[blanc]

@ blanc,
Are the "CUE+FLAC pairs" a rip from a CD disc to a single FLAC file of the whole CD with a .CUE file ?
If so how was this created ?

Exactly. A friend just offered me such CUE+FLAC pairs so I’m not familiar with ripping process.

Another report here: cue: AR: rip not accurate (0/14), CTDB: differs in 8 samples, confidence 51, or verified OK, confidence 44.

I think I can tolerate some inaccurate samples because 8 samples/44.1ksamples is nearly zero, right?

[cholla]

This was easy to find.
Do the math but correct nearly zero.
[QUOTE]One audio sample in CD-quality audio (44.1 kHz, 16-bit stereo) represents approximately 22.68 microseconds of time, calculated as 1/44100 seconds.[QUOTE]

[blanc]

I remember some errors could be corrected by CUETools but am not aware how.

[cholla]

I’m using CUETools to extract FLAC files from CUE+FLAC pairs. After extraction I get this message:
cue: AR: offset 12, rip accurate (23/84), CTDB: verified OK, confidence 295.

I've now played with CueTools.
Where did you get this message?
Was it automatic or from a log file?
I created a .flac file of a whole CD into a single .flac+.cue.
I used both EAC & CUETools.exe to do this.
No error displayed from either .flac file

Can I make sure the extracted FLAC files are identical with the original CDs?

I do not believe you can with the single .flac file you have.
CDex can compare two .flac files .
Even then the .flac have to be ripped from a CD.
You can not compare with the .cda track pointers on a CD.