Problems Digitizing VHS Cassettes...

[The_Doman]

So guys, it seems that perhaps the best way for me to do this would be to create one of the following chains:

Regular VCR + Canon Vixia HV30 into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere;

or...

Regular VCR + [one of those DVD recorders mentioned in this thread] into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere.

Is this correct, or did I miss something? (The thread’s become a bit overwhelming at this point, so I may have glossed over something important.)

There is of course also the option:
Regular VCR + [one of those DVD recorders mentioned in this thread] and a decent USB capture device.
Assuming there is a good working USB capture solution/chain on the MAC

[rgr]

The waviness at the top of the screen I just took to be an artifact of the VHS medium, and therefore was unavoidable (some of my tapes have that, and some do not). This can be prevented??

Of course, that's exactly what TBC does.

Okay, understood. Unfortunately, as you say, this is still not guaranteed since I will not be integrating a dedicated device equipped with TBC. I’ll only be increasing my odds by introducing some digital links into the chain.

D8 cameras have TBC. Do yours have it and if it works good you need to check or search the internet.
The easiest way would be to look for someone who has FireWire, rip a snippet of that tape you have, and check it out.

If the result is OK, then you have the problem out of your head.
If the result is bad and waviness still occur, you need a passthrough device with TBC (Panasonic DMR-EH5x), between the VCR and the D8 camera. Or buy a grabber and use it instead of a camera.

[rgr]

1. They are there. And you may need to de-block the DV video before processing.

Where do you see the need for de-block (attachment)?

3. It is the opposite, because 4:2:0 reduces color resolution both horizontally and vertically (by half in both directions).
This can be problematic for formats that already have little color information such as VHS and S-VHS, as the chrominance is further reduced. Pratically 4:2:0 is taking away color from a signal that already has very little of it causing blurred colored edges, color bleeding, aliasing, loss of fine saturation and banding.
Of course with poor sources the difference is minimal, but for nice VHS and S-VHS is not so small.

1. You capture in YUV420, encode in YUV420 and see a problem somewhere? Strange, because with luma 16-235 on the input and output it doesn't bother you The human eye is more sensitive to luma than chroma.
2. More damage than the YUV420 on the input is done by JVC with his "temporal smoothing".

[lollo]

You gave you a fishing rod, all you had to do was think, you couldn't do it.

Sure!

Of course the 16-255 range is better because it contains more luma levels.

The D8 camera is not a grabber - there will be no holes in the graph, the entire range will be filled.

The gaps and spikes in the histogram is another story, charlatan, and not all grabbers feature that.

The same as the level above will be capturing in 10-bit depth.

Tell me now that you capture in 4:2:0, which is a loss, but in 10 bits, which is completely useless.

The basics, rgr, the basics!

The basics, and you still don't understand.

I have a different opinion about who is not understanding, but I do not care at all.

[lollo]

Where do you see the need for de-block (attachment)?

Do you expect me to loose time checking your videos? DV introduces blocks by default and by the law of physics and maths; if there is a sample with minimal artifacts is not the rule (the same as per your crap experiment).

1. You capture in YUV420, code in YUV420 and see a problem somewhere? Strange, because with luma 16-235 on the input and output it doesn't bother you The human eye is more sensitive to luma than chroma

We keep the luma and the chroma as there are on tape. There is not need to deteriorate chroma more.
The rest about levels and sensitivity is absolutely out of contest.

2. More damage than the YUV420 on the input is done by JVC with his "temporal smoothing".

That's the last of your bullshit.

While a temporal noise reduction is present, is not worst than what youobtain with a temporal denoiser avisynth filter with high temporal radius. If the starting point is cleaner, there is less need to use strong settings. And the final result is equivalent.

JVCs are wonderful machines (not all of them of course). Once more look to real examples of mine comparing a signal dumped directly from a satellite stream and its brother who has been recorded by a JVC on a tape and then captured. No difference, which validate the full chain!

[rgr]

Of course the 16-255 range is better because it contains more luma levels.

Heh, it's supposed to be simple subtraction, but you couldn't do it

[lollo]

Of course the 16-255 range is better because it contains more luma levels.

Heh, it's supposed to be simple subtraction, but you couldn't do it

It is not a question of subtraction, but of impact

To OP: I apologize for this off topic, but this charlatan needed to be corrected. My last post on this thread, I promise.

[rgr]

Where do you see the need for de-block (attachment)?

Do you expect me to loose time checking your videos? DV introduces blocks by default and by the law of physics and maths; if there is a sample with minimal artifacts is not the rule (the same as per your crap experiment).

You could use some for training, because you're already pushing harsh nonsense, Dr. Professor of Theory
Civil courage a little, show these blocks.

We keep the luma and the chroma as there are on tape.

Dr. Associate Professor of Theory, there are no bytes on the tape, there are volts
It's such an analog monster! The more precisely you sample it, the better the reproduction you'll get.

2. More damage than the YUV420 on the input is done by JVC with his "temporal smoothing".

That's the last of your bullshit.

While a temporal noise reduction is present, is not worst than what youobtain with a temporal denoiser avisynth filter with high temporal radius. If the starting point is cleaner, there is less need to use strong settings. And the final result is equivalent.

Well, I see

JVCs are wonderful machines (not all of them of course)

The frame from JVC is the one below...
Even the YUV444P16 wouldn't help here, but the good news is that no YUV will hurt more...

[Alwyn]

So guys, it seems that perhaps the best way for me to do this would be to create one of the following chains:

Regular VCR + Canon Vixia HV30 into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere;

or...

Regular VCR + [one of those DVD recorders mentioned in this thread] into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere.

Is this correct, or did I miss something? (The thread’s become a bit overwhelming at this point, so I may have glossed over something important.)

You need that DVD recorder before your HV30 (the HV30 does not do any stabilising according to my test).

For a better result, instead of American (4.1.1 colour) Firewire, go the lossless route, capture with a USB digitiser such as the GV-USB2, USB-Live2 or 710-USB (although the 710 doesn't work on Win 10 or 11 here). Then edit your files with Premiere (what format AVIs does it accept?). The lossless process is more complex than the DV route.

So, get your hands on a suggested DVD recorder, do a HV30 capture and assess. Looks good? Stick with that. Not happy, or feeling a bit nerdy, move up to the lossless route.

[Sharc]

JVCs are wonderful machines (not all of them of course).

Well, my sturdy JVC HR-S9500 smoothes the picture even when disabling all of its internal filters (which can be disabled by the user), and some of the details (like fine vertical structures) cannot be recovered in post. For this reason I prefer my Pana NV-HS860 for capturing. It captures more details (provided these are on the tape) and more noise, but the details are preserved after denoising in post.
It may be more prominent for home videos than for preprocessed broadcast or commercial tape material though.
Apologies for adding to the off-topic stuff

[lollo]

In my case is the opposite because the JVC is better than the Panasonic, and I posted a comparison in the forum some time ago. Cannot find it now.

Sorry, re-end of the off-topic

[cholla]

The last two posts are not what the OP or me was calling "off topic".
They are VCRs that if the OP decides to go that route may correct his VHS captures.
It was the "your way is wrong & mine is right" That got into the posts.
In other words "A pissing contest".

[lollo]

In other words "A pissing contest".

Always better than the non sense that you write in most of your posts.

[cholla]

@ lollo,
I'm not going to go there.

Try your insults on some member that want's to go back & forth with you.
It is too easy to do online.
Since I doubt we will ever be face to face .
You would not want to insult me face to face.

I will end with this quote by someone I respect:
“I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”

BTW: That does not mean I won' post again in this topic.
But not back & forth with YOU !

[VWestlife]

I think people here should at least act the age of the equipment they're arguing about.

[lollo]

@ lollo,

You would not want to insult me face to face.

Are you sure?

I will end with this quote by someone I respect:
“I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”

You started insulting with the statement "A pissing contest", so you had back what you deserved.

I'm not going to go there.

Go where you want, now.

[lollo]

I think people here should at least act the age of the equipment they're arguing about.

Nice!!!

I apologize for my tone, but I do not like people with the expertise of a kid (just to stay in theme about age) start insulting

[Kong]

So guys, it seems that perhaps the best way for me to do this would be to create one of the following chains:

Regular VCR + Canon Vixia HV30 into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere;

or...

Regular VCR + [one of those DVD recorders mentioned in this thread] into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere.

Is this correct, or did I miss something? (The thread’s become a bit overwhelming at this point, so I may have glossed over something important.)

You need that DVD recorder before your HV30 (the HV30 does not do any stabilising according to my test).

For a better result, instead of American (4.1.1 colour) Firewire, go the lossless route, capture with a USB digitiser such as the GV-USB2, USB-Live2 or 710-USB (although the 710 doesn't work on Win 10 or 11 here). Then edit your files with Premiere (what format AVIs does it accept?). The lossless process is more complex than the DV route.

So, get your hands on a suggested DVD recorder, do a HV30 capture and assess. Looks good? Stick with that. Not happy, or feeling a bit nerdy, move up to the lossless route.

Hey...

I looked up some capture devices online. They’re not prohibitively expensive. But, if I can get away with a VHS -> DVD recorder -> Camera / FW -> computer, and it works, that’ll be complex enough for me

I like your solution, and will weigh this in my brain. But, honestly, it’s simple and I like simple, being a simple man

Thank you.

[Kong]

So guys, it seems that perhaps the best way for me to do this would be to create one of the following chains:

Regular VCR + Canon Vixia HV30 into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere;

or...

Regular VCR + [one of those DVD recorders mentioned in this thread] into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere.

Is this correct, or did I miss something? (The thread’s become a bit overwhelming at this point, so I may have glossed over something important.)

Regular VCR + [one of those DVD recorders mentioned in this thread] and a decent USB capture device.
Assuming there is a good working USB capture solution/chain on the MAC

Ha... the Mac excels at this sort of thing. There are plenty. But, my HV30 could be my “capture device”.

Thanks!

[dellsam34]

I do not like people with the expertise of a kid

Just put the noise in the ignore list and move on, It's not worth pursuing and it's not good for the forum.

[Kong]

So guys, it seems that perhaps the best way for me to do this would be to create one of the following chains:

Regular VCR + Canon Vixia HV30 into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere;

or...

Regular VCR + [one of those DVD recorders mentioned in this thread] into FW-equipped computer and iMovie or Premiere.

Is this correct, or did I miss something? (The thread’s become a bit overwhelming at this point, so I may have glossed over something important.)

You need that DVD recorder before your HV30 (the HV30 does not do any stabilising according to my test).

For a better result, instead of American (4.1.1 colour) Firewire, go the lossless route, capture with a USB digitiser such as the GV-USB2, USB-Live2 or 710-USB (although the 710 doesn't work on Win 10 or 11 here). Then edit your files with Premiere (what format AVIs does it accept?). The lossless process is more complex than the DV route.

So, get your hands on a suggested DVD recorder, do a HV30 capture and assess. Looks good? Stick with that. Not happy, or feeling a bit nerdy, move up to the lossless route.

Wait... sorry... This chain would like this:

VHS > USB digitizer > computer?

Does one of these capture devices you recommended have the sought-after TBC feature?

[Kong]

I do not like people with the expertise of a kid

Just put the noise in the ignore list and move on, It's not worth pursuing and it's not good for the forum.

Agreed.

[rgr]

In other words "A pissing contest".

Always better than the non sense that you write in most of your posts.

And this is written by a person who usually writes revealed truths (read: nonsense).

[lollo]

And this is written by a person who usually writes revealed truths (read: nonsense).

And this is written by somebody who shows in most of his posts his ignorance and incompetence. How fun!!!

[The_Doman]

Wait... sorry... This chain would like this:

VHS > USB digitizer > computer?

Does one of these capture devices you recommended have the sought-after TBC feature?

There is of course also the option:
Regular VCR + [one of those DVD recorders mentioned in this thread] and a decent USB capture device.

[Alwyn]

Wait... sorry... This chain would like this:

VHS > USB digitizer > computer?

Does one of these capture devices you recommended have the sought-after TBC feature?

My fault, not being clear.

In a nutshell, the DVD recorder is the stabiliser (I'm not going to call it a TBC because it technically isn't).

So, the two options are:

VCR > DVD recorder > HV30 > Firewire capture

or

VCR > DVD recorder > USB digitiser > lossless AVI capture

[Kong]

Wait... sorry... This chain would like this:

VHS > USB digitizer > computer?

Does one of these capture devices you recommended have the sought-after TBC feature?

My fault, not being clear.

In a nutshell, the DVD recorder is the stabiliser (I'm not going to call it a TBC because it technically isn't).

So, the two options are:

VCR > DVD recorder > HV30 > Firewire capture

or

VCR > DVD recorder > USB digitiser > lossless AVI capture

Hmm... Do you think lossless would be necessary? These are very noisy TV recordings, mostly SD resolution and from the 90s.

[Alwyn]

Do you think lossless would be necessary?

Not "necessary". But lossless gives you better raw material to work with when improving it, for example denoising.

The DV route is simpler. And the result is all in the eye of the beholder... you may well be happy with that.

At this point, I'd move from concept to action. FW cards are cheap, buy one and do some captures using your HV30.

Attach a couple of short ones here for assessment.

Then you can decide if you need a stabiliser ie DVD recorder between the VCR and the HV30.

Or whether you go a step further to a lossless workflow.