Requesting advices for beginner (both ways analog/digital)

[Azhash]

Hello, i am planning to buy some equipement and wanted to ask the hobbyists and pros for advice before actually putting money into it.

I am looking to get a PAL Panasonic ag-455 https://archive.org/details/manual_AG455M_SM_PANASONIC_EN/page/n59/mode/2up (i found one available for really cheap and it seem in great shape) to both shoot stuff and backup S-VHS/VHS, im only struggling to find a camera that also have a analog video IN, wich i'd like to find to go from digital to analog for some specific projects. But, i'm thinking, that's probably not especially the best to go that way right? If what i want is giving a handheld shot analog style to a digital made video. And simply doing that with a nice VHS deck would have the same, if not better results. (By better result i mean, im looking to have the cool artifacts that VHS can create like chromatic aberation and slight grain and lines glitching, i prefer to specify bc its not usually a good thing in restoration)
If you have any feedback and advice as to that part let me know, especially if u know how to create chromatic aberation and control it without damaging the camera/vhs deck, i'd be curious to know.

On that note, let's say i have digital media i want to apply those "effects" to, would it be better to burn a dvd, feed it to the dvd recorder and output with analog to the VHS deck to record? Or, get an actual card for my pc that have an analog out directly to the VHS deck? (that card would need to operate on win 10 or 11, and idk if the usb capture cards can do that, can they?)

As to going to digital from analog, i have been looking at other posts and figured out that i might want to either have the VHS in the camera and outputing with analog or using a VHS deck also outputing in analog into a dvd recorder like the Panasonic ES15 (wich i think i have one similar somewhere) to benefit from the Line TBC passthrough. But from there, would it be better to just record on a dvd and use the dvd on my pc or pluging the signal into a capture device?

For a possible capture device i'm looking at a second hand AVERMEDIA Game Capture HD: https://www.amazon.fr/AVERMEDIA-Capture-Bo%C3%AEtier-dacquisition-%C3%A9l%C3%A9ments/dp/B005YR0M0W Mostly because i found one available for cheap and it records to a HDD then u can simply copy paste the file to the PC, and dont need to run software on win 11 and have a mess of cables and devices near the PC. (convenient)
But tbh, i dont know which resolution i should aim for, nor if outdated equipempent is passable or if recent stuff perform just better in every way, and i dont know how that device will do, if you know, any feedback on that would be very appreciated. And if u have another device to recommend that's not going 100$ let me know.


Thank you in advance for your advices, this whole process is pretty daunting when u first get into it and i'm eager to see how i could improve the process before commiting with money.

[Sharc]

Digital -> analog (VHS):
There are several options, like
a) If your digital source is mpeg2 you may want to author a DVD and use a DVD player with analog S-video OUT (or recorder compliant Component or Composite) for your recording onto VHS tapes
b) If your PC has a HDMI Out you may use an external HDMI -> S-video (or Composite or Component) converter box (beware of cheap crap devices, there are many) , or as a compromise you may re-encode your source to mpeg2 and author a DVD, and continue like a).
c) for VGA OUT proceed similar to b)
Details depend on your PC.

Most USB capture dongles are usually one way (analog -> digital) only and can't be used "backwards" for digital -> analog conversion

Analog (VHS) -> Digital (capturing VHS):
Plenty of information on this subject is available in the forum. In short:
- Find a (S-)VHS player in good condition with S-Video OUT and with internal TBC, and capture lossless 4:2:2 using a recommended USB capture card (GV-USB2 for example)
- If your VHS player lacks TBC you may use a recommended DVD recorder (like ES-10, ES-15) in passthrough and capture lossless 4:2:2 using a recommended capture card.
Capturing on the fly to mpeg2 using a DVD recorder compromises on quality. Depends what you expect.

Can't comment on your capture device.

[GAhere]

Hello, im only struggling to find a camera that also have a analog video IN, wich i'd like to find to go from digital to analog for some specific projects. But, i'm thinking, that's probably not especially the best to go that way right? If what i want is giving a handheld shot analog style to a digital made video. And simply doing that with a nice VHS deck would have the same, if not better results. (By better result i mean, im looking to have the cool artifacts that VHS can create like chromatic aberation and slight grain and lines glitching, i prefer to specify bc its not usually a good thing in restoration)
If you have any feedback and advice as to that part let me know, especially if u know how to create chromatic aberation and control it without damaging the camera/vhs deck, i'd be curious to know.

I will preface that I am not from "PAL land", but if I recall, some countries that used PAL as their standard also had some additional VAT tax on camcorders that did have video inputs. So, while there may have been PAL camcorders made with video inputs they may be very few survivors to be had and finding working survivors even more rare..

Even in the US, video input on a camcorder was a pretty rare option, I have a NTSC Sony Hi8mm camcorder model which did feature that input. The input actually shares the output jacks, only get input option when camcorder is set to record.

As far as all of the back and forth between different recordings to kill the quality, I wouldn't bother.. Any good video editor will already have a lot of filter presets that can downgrade/damage the video quality for artistic reasons.

Shoot with the best quality HD digital camera/camcorder you have and if is digital you can run it through a digital video editor and distort the video to you liking without all the back and forth. Heck you can even find free online video editors to use with your android cellphone/tablet now days that most likely will have filter settings to do what you are wanting to do.

[Azhash]

Thanks for the replies, i'm very happy to read what you guuuys are typing.
To Gahere thanks i"ll try to open to digital degradation and look for what's out there, maybe i couuld think of a combination of both analog and digital degradation to get where i want, the digital for the"effects" and the analog for the format and resolution.
For the camcorder having V input, i think u'r right cuz i've looked at a lot of camcorders and i cant even remember of one having that. Its fine tho, i can get around this with a VHS deck i think.

I have been reading a lot of the forum, and figured that i'm not gonna use the capture device i talked about, as basically lot of ppl saying to go with S/video.
On that note, i found another capture device, its been talked about in good terms here, the Avermedia ce310b , its a card, i should be able to slot it in one of my PC with win 10.
To Sharc thanks for the detailed tips, i appreciate that! I've look around for the GV-USB2 device, but im thinking what a crazy price for a little cable, and its like 20$ shipping on top with a month delay, quite rough, especially when i've read that a ton of ebay or amazon listing are bootleg cables. The device seem good tho, but it also look like the Avermedia ce310b would achieve very similar results more or less (im not looking for the best anyway), what do you think of the card if u have knowledge of it?

About the Digital -> analog (VHS), i'll probably go for a), thanks!!!

And about the Analog (VHS) -> Digital (capturing VHS), if i get the Panasonic ag-455 technically its the same as using a S-VHS deck right? (no TBC i guess? but i can do that with a dvd player like i mentionned)

Hopefully, i'm understanding all this right, thanks for guiding me on this pretty overwhelming (for beginners) hobby!

[Sharc]

As far as all of the back and forth between different recordings to kill the quality, I wouldn't bother.. Any good video editor will already have a lot of filter presets that can downgrade/damage the video quality for artistic reasons.

Agree. A digital editor is the easier alternative for creating artistic effects simulating the look and feel of legacy analog technology. For device testing/comparison or educational purpose the real signal flow involving back and forth processing steps may still be justified though.

Added:
@Azhash: Re. TBC or no TBC for analog capture: If you want to show the notorious flagging / wobbling etc. of mediocre VHS players+tapes you should just skip the TBC. Similar for Composite vs S-Video. It depends what deficiencies you want to see or "fix".

[GAhere]

Video effects..

I have Sony Vegas Pro 11, a pretty old version for sure..

Here is the default plug in video effects which you can add in to the effects chain.


[Attachment 91861 - Click to enlarge]

While it doesn't have VTR effects, it does have tools which can achieve degradation to the point of VHS or lower quality. Not in that menu is additional tools which can simulate jitter and flutter..

Newer versions of Vegas will have more effects options.. At one time older versions one could download additional effects filters. Not sure if that is available any more..

But there is a lot info on how to DIY VTR video simulation without having a direct VTR effects plugin..

See the link..

https://www.dogpile.com/serp?q=video+tape+effects+filter+for+vegas+pro&sc=OeDX693GDCPV10

[GAhere]

I have been reading a lot of the forum, and figured that i'm not gonna use the capture device i talked about, as basically lot of ppl saying to go with S/video.

Puzzled on this.

Your "objective" is to "degrade" the video into VHS quality..

"S/video" in/out was supposed to be and "improvement" in video quality over composite video in/out.

To get full "effect" of VHS experience, the dirtier the signal the better effect you will get..

As far as that goes, one could really get the most of VHS effect by recording in SLP (6hr mode) to tape, then retrieve/capture from the RF output (requires a capture card with RF tuner).. You could mess with the tracking control while capturing to really bring home the point of VHS..

However, if you have hours and hours of material, the multiple steps of shuffling back and forth between digital to analog back to digital will become a time consuming slog.. Pretty much the reason I suggest letting the video editing software degrade the picture which will be a much more time efficient method and gives you more control over when the effects are applied and to what extent they are applied. Not ALL analog video from VHS has those effects 100% of the time unless it is a recording from a maladjusted, damaged deck or damaged tape. Generally VHS video will suffer more from the low resolution (Standard Definition) of the analog days, perhaps some switching noise from the video head amp.

[VWestlife]

Recording to VHS isn't going to magically give "a handheld shot analog style to a digital made video". '80s and '90s camcorders had different lenses, different image sensors, and different image processing than modern ones. Especially if you want the visual characteristics of a tube or CCD image sensor, you simply can't reproduce that with a modern CMOS sensor, even with digital/AI processing added to it. And when properly-done, a VHS transfer with a TBC and 60 fps QTGMC de-interlacing will probably leave you disappointed by it looking "too good" in comparison to all the wobbly, mistracking 320x240 15 fps EasyCrap VHS transfers that are on YouTube.

[Azhash]

Thanks for the links and explanations! I do get that u'r puzzled, to be clear i have 2 objectives that are distinct and do not cross, one is to digitalize vhs without degradation and one is to generate degradation on digital. So the infos u sent me will help, definitely. I will see later what i prefer between the digital effects and the analog process for degrading, i think i wanna try both and decide.
I do understand your point VWestlife, but i am aware about how the lens and sensors etc will affect the video (wich i can only simulate with effects and not by just going digital to analog.

There is a good reason i'm talking about S/video, it's for the analog to digital process, i'm looking to get a good setup.
I've bought a Avermedia ce310b to get good quality in my digitalization, it was only 40$ but i'm waiting for the seller to confirm, at that price it seemed a great deal, i'm just worried the seller will ghost me at this point tho.

How much better is a GV-USB2 compare to the Avermedia ce310b? And what about the Hauppauge HD PVR 1304?

And i was also wondering if the Panasonic ag-455 will technically be similar to having a s-vhs deck or is it mediocre in comparison to use a camcorder for that? (by that, i mean inserting a normal VHS and digitalizing it)

Edit: As a last little question, im in the process of buying that camcorder, the seller told me it has power on the wall plug, the viewfinder has image, the vhs compartiment open and closes, the tape turns, what other question can i ask them to make sure i am not buying something that's half broken, any idea? There is definitely a risk buying it, there is so much that can go wrong inside(the seller told me he is not into camcorders and has no idea how to really test it, and probably wont want to bother at the price it is)

[VWestlife]

Avoid camcorders from the late 1980s through mid-1990s; most are broken due to bad capacitors, and the rest of them will die soon as well. If someone finds one in a closet and turns it on, it may seem to work at first, just long enough for them to take photos and list it on eBay... but by the time it gets to the buyer, all of the electrolyte has leaked out of the capacitors and now it's an expensive paperweight.

If you want the "vintage home video" look without the hassle of old, broken equipment or tape recording, your best bet are tapeless standard-definition, CCD image sensor camcorders from the 2000s and early 2010s:

Which camcorder for vintage video?

[Azhash]

Capacitors are one of those things i know how to replace with some soldering, its not as bad as we imagine, and as an owner of many vintage device, it really only rarely is the issue contrary to what i often hear (in fairness, i'm EU so we might not always have to deal with the same exact capacitors maybe). Every time i had issues, it wasnt a capacitor leak, even on 80's equipement tbh. Its when another component fries that it becomes a nightmare (to source that component, and its price is usually 4x the price of the device itself)

As for the video link thank you, but i really think the result that person is achieving is not what i'm looking for, he gets some nice 2000's image i have to admit, but i'm looking for that 90's look that the lens + storage type creates. (more close to the examples he shows of VHS camcorders) There is also that simple fact that i think it's cool and interesting, a s-vhs camcorder just has a lot of aura contrary to the 2000's handheld camcorders.
I know i'd be taking a risk with the camcorder, but im trying to get it for like 40$ not 150 or something. If i can manage to get one that works, it would be quite a good deal it seems AND double as a S-VHS deck (meaning its 120$ less to invest in my setup if i want to use S-VHS in any of my workflows)

[GAhere]

VWestlifes comment on caps are a valid concern, but I would be too worried about that for the most part, the issue is more about the mechanical condition of the deck.. Chances of finding an in tact 100% working camcorder are pretty low.. Belts and rubber tires/idlers go bad just sitting around..

I will be brutally honest, if you have never been inside a VCR deck, don't try cracking open a camcorder expecting it to be a walk in the park.. Camcorder construction in order to make complete package as small as possible makes the servicing end pretty difficult at best, circuit boards are often "pancaked" together or folded over each other and connections are often very fragile ribbon cables with no spare cable slack. Ribbon cable breakage is very real..

As far as lenses being different between the years goes, not so much, just like today, cheap cameras have cheap lenses and expensive cameras have expensive lenses..

Sensors have improved, but in reality cheap cameras have very cheap sensors and expensive cameras have very expensive sensors..

You would have to go back before camcorders were made to get a tube sensor, those were mainly used in the separate luggable VTR deck and camera that plugged into the portable deck and those were pretty narly output..

Placing everything inside one "box" meant the tube type sensors had to go in favor of CCD sensors to save space and extend battery life.

More modern sensors have many more pixels than the early days which is the main change that happened going to HD video.

Newer HD camcorders often have anti-shake to stabilize a shaky hand, the stabilizer can often be turned off and the result will be the same shaky recording early camcorders gave before they had anti-shake stabilization..

I can tell you, even with anti-shake turned on with HD cameras the HD cameras tend to be far more sensitive to a shaky hand..

My Sony Hi8 camcorder had by far the best image stabilization I have ever seen, not so much with the newer HD camcorders..

[Azhash]

As far as lenses being different between the years goes, not so much, just like today, cheap cameras have cheap lenses and expensive cameras have expensive lenses..

Sensors have improved, but in reality cheap cameras have very cheap sensors and expensive cameras have very expensive sensors..

You would have to go back before camcorders were made to get a tube sensor, those were mainly used in the separate luggable VTR deck and camera that plugged into the portable deck and those were pretty narly output..

Placing everything inside one "box" meant the tube type sensors had to go in favor of CCD sensors to save space and extend battery life.

More modern sensors have many more pixels than the early days which is the main change that happened going to HD video.

Newer HD camcorders often have anti-shake to stabilize a shaky hand, the stabilizer can often be turned off and the result will be the same shaky recording early camcorders gave before they had anti-shake stabilization..

I can tell you, even with anti-shake turned on with HD cameras the HD cameras tend to be far more sensitive to a shaky hand..

My Sony Hi8 camcorder had by far the best image stabilization I have ever seen, not so much with the newer HD camcorders..

These are fair points, and i do understand your arguments thank you. However, if i give up on the S-VHS camcorder idea, then what am i left with for the vintage filming hobby? Can u provide some examples that are not basic 2000's camcorders and not costing an arm? I dont really care for those handheld 2000's camcorders, do not really like what they produce in terms of vibe, and dont really see the point of going onto more HD tech when the whole premise of shooting with vhs is to shoot with vhs. What exactly should i look at in your opinion? (camcorder models) VHS-C? S-VHS-C? Mini DV?
I'm open to changing my opinions on that tech, if i can see some examples that clearly distinct from the color muted and boring images 2000's camcorder produce (Thats just my opinion, these things are very subjective)

In short, i could shoot in 4K with my phone, then apply VHS effects, yes, but i dont want to do that, it present no interest to me right now.
(Also, yes those 90's camcorder sandwich boards inside and are insanely intricate, im aware that if something is wrong with it, it will be more or less over)

[GAhere]

These are fair points, and i do understand your arguments thank you. However, if i give up on the S-VHS camcorder idea, then what am i left with for the vintage filming hobby? Can u provide some examples that are not basic 2000's camcorders and not costing an arm? I dont really care for those handheld 2000's camcorders, do not really like what they produce in terms of vibe, and dont really see the point of going onto more HD tech when the whole premise of shooting with vhs is to shoot with vhs. What exactly should i look at in your opinion? (camcorder models) VHS-C? S-VHS-C? Mini DV?
I'm open to changing my opinions on that tech, if i can see some examples that clearly distinct from the color muted and boring images 2000's camcorder produce (Thats just my opinion, these things are very subjective)

In short, i could shoot in 4K with my phone, then apply VHS effects, yes, but i dont want to do that, it present no interest to me right now.
(Also, yes those 90's camcorder sandwich boards inside and are insanely intricate, im aware that if something is wrong with it, it will be more or less over)

If you want VHS, then why be stuck on S-VHS?

S-VHS was a very short run at best which makes them very scarce, pair that with S-VHS camcorder and now you have an extremely rare bird..

S-VHS was a slight improvement over VHS, but BARELY, not enough to fully justify the cost then and the cost now..

VHS was the bottom of the barrel for quality and S-VHS was the attempt to answer Sony Hi8mm tape format for quality but fell short of that.

8mm and Hi8mm replaced the Beta format (both Sony design).

VHS-C was an attempt to shrink VHS format camcorders to match the smaller size of 8mm/Hi8mm, but it really was a bomb that blew up with severe recording time limitation of 20 minutes in SP, basically didn't sell well.. Also had another big flaw, while the VHS-C tape could be played in a regular VHS deck with the help of an VHS-C to VHS adapter, those adapters often would catastrophically fail leaving you with a mangled tape that was no longer usable. Epic fail. You would be foolish to waste money on ANY VHS-C format!

DV tape camcorders would remove ALL VHS artifacts you are looking for and are the same as if you were to adjust a HD camcorder down to SD quality (yes, some HD digital camcorders offer SD resolutions to increase recording time or to make the resulting file much smaller).

Digital 8mm tape was Sony's answer to DV tape format, did have some compatibility advantage in being able to use the same Hi8mm tape and the camcorders could play back existing Hi8mm analog recordings from older analog Hi8mm cameras.

There is no need to buy a S-VHS camcorder as it was a slight improvement over standard VHS..

If you are looking for VHS artifacts, buy a used VHS camcorder then have at it..

But the better route is to fake it with a HD camcorder, do your edits then apply your degradation filters.. Much more efficient use of your time..

[Azhash]

If you want VHS, then why be stuck on S-VHS?

S-VHS was a very short run at best which makes them very scarce, pair that with S-VHS camcorder and now you have an extremely rare bird..

S-VHS was a slight improvement over VHS, but BARELY, not enough to fully justify the cost then and the cost now..

But i wouldnt be "stuck" on it, and i wouldnt need to pay much more for S-VHS, i'm not buying anything but very cheap offers, i found those items im talking about for a cheap price that's why i choose S-VHS, cuz its not costing me more at all if i get it. And yes, having an extremely rare bird sounds fun to me.
Okay so no VHS-C and no DV, u made good point on why they wouldnt be for me.

I dont know much about the 8mm format, but firstly, are u telling me that i should look into it as a camcorder?
Edit: I looked into Hi8 a bit , but failed to find any good offer, the price is quite steep and tbh i feel like i would pay 3x more. With the risk of something broken as soon as i try it almost as likely as a 90's device. If i understand those tech are 10 years appart, and starting the hobby with a 150$ second hand camera just to have it break would be depressing, less psychologically damaging that a 40$ camera failure.

Let's not focus on the "degrading" for a bit, i am firstly looking to both capture VHS and also filming vintage footage on vintage tech, the degrading part will then be figured out depending on what devices i have and the tips recived here will come usefull later on for me.

So, i am looking for the right material to start, wich is a camcorder and a capture card for now. Found a ATI 9800 SE AIW all in wonder AGP i could get for cheap, would it be good for a S/video capture? I seen a user here talk about it.

[GAhere]

If you want "vintage" analog tape "feel", then go with the BASE VHS, not S-VHS.

For capturing and capturing only you could play back the VHS tape on a S-VHS deck to get your S/video.. But why?

You can simply play the VHS on a VHS deck and use the composite video. Doing that would complete your vintage recording.

Reason, S/Video was designed to reduce some of the artifacting you are trying to achieve.

S/video separates the lumenance (brightness) from the chroma (color) signals to reduce interference between the two that can create a lot of the look your are going after.

Mind you, not every VHS recorded tape looks bad, not every second of a VHS tape looks bad.

The main feature of VHS is its limited bandwidth to SD quality and that is also a limitation of early analog video specifications per NTSC/PAL/SECAM rules.

All you need for a capture card is one that accepts Composite Video, most will offer several different video inputs.

Just to be clear and get you on the same page..

In US, NTSC Composite video uses a single RCA jack, European PAL would be most likely SCART jacks.

With S/video the connector looks almost the same as a computer PS/2 mouse/keyboard jack but only has four pins unlike a mouse/keyboard.

Now to really mess with your mind, early HD at 720 resolution offered "Component" video, component video breaks up the video into three groups "Y" "Pb" "Pr-" for much higher resolution..

All above are analog..

Digital video is HDMI..

Here is a good read on the different video cables and benefits of each..

https://www.romtronic.com/what-is-an-s-video-cable-how-it-works-types-and-application-guide/

"S-Video vs. Other Video Cable Types

Composite vs S-Video: All picture data is carried on a single channel, represented by a single yellow RCA connection. Because S-Video uses two channels, it produces fewer artifacts and offers much better clarity.

Component vs. S-Video: Component video—which uses three wires for Y, Pb, and Pr—offers higher color detail. S-Video has a lower total color resolution due to its narrower single-chroma channel.

HDMI vs. S-Video: HDMI is a digital interface that supports HD/4 K audio and video. S-Video is an analog format; it only carries SD video, not audio."

So, in terms of video quality, if you want the worst possible quality here is the list

1 number one worst.. Composite (this IS what you seek)

2 better quality.. S/video

3 better quality yet.. Component

4 Top quality.. HDMI (IE digital capable of 4K and 8K HD video)

[VWestlife]

Newer HD camcorders often have anti-shake to stabilize a shaky hand, the stabilizer can often be turned off and the result will be the same shaky recording early camcorders gave before they had anti-shake stabilization..

Sony introduced SteadyShot in 1992. By the mid-1990s it was pretty much the norm for all except the cheapest camcorders to have some form of image stabilization. The previous full-size camcorders didn't need it because they were inherently stabilized by resting on your shoulder.

Very shaky/wobbly video is most often associated with the video mode of point-and-shoot digital cameras, Flip cameras, and cell phone cameras of the 2000s and early 2010s... which, like it or not, a whole new generation of people consider to be "vintage" and are nostalgic for.

[Sharc]

So, i am looking for the right material to start, wich is a camcorder and a capture card for now. Found a ATI 9800 SE AIW all in wonder AGP i could get for cheap, would it be good for a S/video capture? I seen a user here talk about it.

No. It has S-Video OUT only AFAIK. For capturing of video tapes you need an INPUT port (S-Video or Composite). (Maybe I misunderstand your intended signal flow though......)
Dozens of threads and hundreds of posts about how to capture analog video in this forum.
https://forum.videohelp.com/forums/10-Capturing-and-VCR

[Azhash]

No. It has S-Video OUT only AFAIK. For capturing of video tapes you need an INPUT port (S-Video or Composite). (Maybe I misunderstand your intended signal flow though......)
Dozens of threads and hundreds of posts about how to capture analog video in this forum.
https://forum.videohelp.com/forums/10-Capturing-and-VCR

That video card do have a composite and S/video IN, it goes through the PS/2 port with an adapter (yes, its just weird and u cant tell by looking at it) but look i timestamped this vid to show u: https://youtu.be/QXU2yUg1H68?t=292

I know there has to be some good thread about capture device, but i looked for a while already, there is 500 pages of threads and every one i open is not describing how good it is but most of the time talking technical stuff i dont really even understand yet. That's why i'm asking for some tips, its really not for the lack of trying trust me. Every time i found something interesting, it was impossible to find or totally overpriced on ebay.

Anyway, it seems the guy which i bought the AVerMedia SD PCIe Video Capture Card ce310b woke up and actually will send it, im crossing my fingers, cuz that would be a lot better than the ATI 9800 wich i found is more of a windows 98 thing, and i would have been ok with XP but 98 is rough. And to add to that it seem to overheat for no reason

Reason, S/Video was designed to reduce some of the artifacting you are trying to achieve.

For the Analog to digital, i want a setup that reduce artifacts and do clean capture, remember, i have 2 different workflow i want to achieve that are distinct and do not cross. I hope that clears the confusion, and sorry if i wasnt clear enought on that. (The whole process of degrading was the other workflow, and i received very good infos here to feel like it's figured out for now, thanks again for the tips on that!)
That quality capturing workflow would be S-VHS camcorder to shoot and play S-VHS AND VHS (achieving both with 1 device and allowing me to experience the diff between both) then to a dvd recorder with TBC (if i can find one in my pile of recorders) , then to the Avermedia i'm trying to buy into the S/video (or composite if i dont have a choice).

That said, im not sure the TBC dvd recorders i own do have S/video and i might just have to go composite, do DVD recorders with TBC usually have S/video? if not, do people usually digitalize through composite or Component?

I'm going to give a proper example of what i'd like to achieve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOxbKhoc444
Im surprised they used a simple Panasonic NV-G101, but... i think it looks great in terms of moods, the colors, the bloom due to the light in the woods etc, its the good dose of "artsy" for 2026 (even tho it used to be mondain). That said, the border artifacts are kinda meh i must admit and using VHS-C make that camcorder even more unconvenient.
What do u think their process was to make this video? Not much of a process? S/video? composite? a TBC line? im very curious to know if it comes out raw like this on that camcorder or if they used some devices/tools.

[VWestlife]

That video card do have a composite and S/video IN, it goes through the PS/2 port with an adapter (yes, its just weird and u cant tell by looking at it)

Not PS/2, but a proprietary mini-DIN breakout cable.

Even if the connector and number of pins were identical, every manufacturer had their own pinout for these breakout cables, so your chances of finding a replacement that works are slim to none.

[GAhere]

For the Analog to digital, i want a setup that reduce artifacts and do clean capture, remember, i have 2 different workflow i want to achieve that are distinct and do not cross. I hope that clears the confusion, and sorry if i wasnt clear enought on that. (The whole process of degrading was the other workflow, and i received very good infos here to feel like it's figured out for now, thanks again for the tips on that!)
That quality capturing workflow would be S-VHS camcorder to shoot and play S-VHS AND VHS (achieving both with 1 device and allowing me to experience the diff between both) then to a dvd recorder with TBC (if i can find one in my pile of recorders) , then to the Avermedia i'm trying to buy into the S/video (or composite if i dont have a choice).

That said, im not sure the TBC dvd recorders i own do have S/video and i might just have to go composite, do DVD recorders with TBC usually have S/video? if not, do people usually digitalize through composite or Component?

I'm going to give a proper example of what i'd like to achieve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOxbKhoc444
Im surprised they used a simple Panasonic NV-G101, but... i think it looks great in terms of moods, the colors, the bloom due to the light in the woods etc, its the good dose of "artsy" for 2026 (even tho it used to be mondain). That said, the border artifacts are kinda meh i must admit and using VHS-C make that camcorder even more unconvenient.
What do u think their process was to make this video? Not much of a process? S/video? composite? a TBC line? im very curious to know if it comes out raw like this on that camcorder or if they used some devices/tools.

I see absolutely nothing that "stands out" in that clip as "vintage VHS".

If you want "vintage VHS" the following snapshot is for you..


[Attachment 91871 - Click to enlarge]

That is a still shot of a video I took back in the 1980s with a borrowed video camera and portable VHS deck.

It was taken late afternoon as the sun was setting, older cameras did not have automatic white balance so you had to manually set the white balance and hope for the best outcome.. Yeah, the camera did not have enough white balance adjustment for the lighting conditions hence the severe orange hue..

Main feature of VHS was the poor video resolution which can be plainly seen in that snapshot..

The Youtube video actually looks fairly good other than the softness of the video (also a feature of SD video) and the haze (which is not a feature but more of timing of the natural haze in the air). All of which are easily replicated via editing software..

[Azhash]

I see absolutely nothing that "stands out" in that clip as "vintage VHS".

If you want "vintage VHS" the following snapshot is for you..

Ah no i dont want that, im looking pretty much to get what i linked on youtube.

The Youtube video actually looks fairly good other than the softness of the video (also a feature of SD video) and the haze (which is not a feature but more of timing of the natural haze in the air). All of which are easily replicated via editing software..

I repeat myself a lot but i'm looking to use actual VHS devices, and using filters is not very interesting to me and i would have no way to digitalize VHS if i dont have actual hardware.

That said, if we talking about going from a digital media and degrading it, u think this all can be achieve through filters?
I probably should have a go at it and try then, so i can see for myself. I'm loading vegas pro on a trial. Havnt found a tutorial on the forum yet, do you have any handy or some keywords to search for? I tried "VHS effect vegas" but didnt find anything

Not PS/2, but a proprietary mini-DIN breakout cable.

Yes u'r right, some proprietary weird dongle thats hard to find

[Sharc]

That said, im not sure the TBC dvd recorders i own do have S/video and i might just have to go composite ....

What's the problem? Take a look at your equipment and check the connectors. Download and read the manuals and study the datasheet/specs.

What do u think their process was to make this video?

Nothing spectacular. My guess:
- They shot the video using a NV-G101 (with a CCD sensor) on VHS-C (brand of tape unknown)
- They played the VHS-C tape a couple of years later using the same NV-G101, or using a mechanical adaptor by means of a S-VHS player with internal TBC, or via VHS player without TBC+external TBC or DVD recorder in passthrough to eliminate the notorious line wiggle, plus capture card for capturing/digitizing. Or maybe they captured and recorded directly to DVD (mpeg2 .mpg) using a DVD recorder.
- They deinterlaced and denoised the video in post processing using an NLE, Avisynth or similar. (The denoising reduced any VHS details even more). Maybe added some color grading/tweaks or artifical effects even.
- They encoded it for YT compliance (or YT deinterlaced (poorly), upscaled and re-encoded it).
All pretty pointless speculations though.

P.S. For capturing such poor low res VHS you could probably get similar "quality results" by capturing directly to mpeg2 on the fly, or just using a DVD recorder and skip all the hassles of more elaborate setups.

[The_Doman]

While we discussing getting convincing VHS appearance, look at this surreal VHS mod for the cyberpunk-2077 game.

IGN: 'This Is What Nostalgia Feels Like' — Cyberpunk 2077 Mod Adds a VHS Aesthetic and Somehow Makes the Game Look Even More Realistic

TapePunk, from Tulired, emulates a VHS aesthetic that “provides a gritty, analog-inspired look for Cyberpunk 1977, avoiding over-the-top effects.” It’s described as “a simple tool for those seeking a cinematic, nostalgic atmosphere based on real-world media study and our memories.”

Tulired said they spent "countless" hours over the last few months learning about VHS and camcorders in order to update the mod, having released a demo video that “seemed to trigger something nostalgic in many of us.”

Reddit: If anybody here likes VHS aesthetic, I've updated TapePunk finally. Thoughts?

[GAhere]

I repeat myself a lot but i'm looking to use actual VHS devices, and using filters is not very interesting to me and i would have no way to digitalize VHS if i dont have actual hardware.

That said, if we talking about going from a digital media and degrading it, u think this all can be achieve through filters?
I probably should have a go at it and try then, so i can see for myself. I'm loading vegas pro on a trial. Havnt found a tutorial on the forum yet, do you have any handy or some keywords to search for? I tried "VHS effect vegas" but didnt find anything

And I am repeating myself a lot.

Simple VHS camera/camcorder

Playback on SAME VHS camera/camcorder using standard composite output.

Using a capture card featuring composite input.

Done.

Simple, easy. cheap.

VS.

Your suggested workflow..

Use VHS, VHS-C or S-VHS camcorder.

Playback on a S-VHS deck using S/Video output.

Use Capture card with S/Video input..


My better suggestion is..

Use a HD camcorder to allow you to capture the highest possible resolution, most digital camcorders record to SD memory card so absolutely no capture card is needed in the workflow. Just pull the SD card, plug into a card reader on your computer and copy the files off. Files are now ready to add into your editor.. Boff the resolution to Standard Definition (DVD or lower SD) after you have edited and assembled your final cut (this is done by "rendering" out the edited video to a usable video file)

Workflow is far quicker without the need to digitize, no need for buying old junk used equipment that most likely will fail in the middle of your project.

Alternative suggestion, depending on the HD camcorder, there may be a setting for Standard Definition (SD which is what VHS is). Set it to SD then have at it.. When done the recording will be on your SD card as a digital file. Copy that file to your PC then add to your editor.. Now you can simply add further filters to add in typical analog artifacts. Render video out to the lowest SD quality you can use in the editor. Resulting file will be a digital file ready to play and yet no need for old wornout VHS equipment or capture cards.

The rest of recording of course is the "artistic" side of framing your subject, lighting, weather, time of day to get your effects you want. Many folks just simply shoot what they thought was interesting or important to them, you must figure out what it is you want to highlight as your subject, then use your artistic flair (imagination) to present it in video for your audience by using time of day lighting, weather ect..

As far as Vegas filters, You may have to try a combination of filters to soften/mundge the video. But in one of the posts I made, there is a link to a search which has a lot of tutorials on how to achieve the vintage analog video look in Vegas without a direct VHS filter.. The greatest and easiest way though is to render out the edited video as SD quality, basically DVD resolution or less.. Vegas offers a lot of preset resolutions for rendering, those resolutions presets are for the highest quality.. To get lower resolution you will have to create a CUSTOM preset, at a lower resolution and even can lower the bit rate.

By starting with a digital HD camcorder you do not need to rely on analog to digital capturing, this step alone can save you many hrs as analog to digital capturing is 1 to 1, you have to spend all of your time sitting around waiting while you are capturing. 1 hr of analog video means you must spend 1 hr capturing. 10 hrs of video means you will spend 10 hrs of capturing.

Something else not said, video capture cards can get glitched out whenever the input glitches, damaged tape or input video going out of spec can drive capture cards mad, sometimes halting recording, sometimes causing corrupt recordings requiring multiple attempts to get one capture.

[Sharc]

Something else not said, video capture cards can get glitched out whenever the input glitches, damaged tape or input video going out of spec can drive capture cards mad, sometimes halting recording, sometimes causing corrupt recordings requiring multiple attempts to get one capture.

Maybe the OP wants to experience/include such effects with his nostalgic captures as well......

[Sharc]

deleted, double post

[Azhash]

Maybe the OP wants to experience/include such effects with his nostalgic captures as well......

Hahaha the 1999 experience, no no i am listening to you guys and taking the advices. I was just thinking some do glitch some glitch a lot less, that's why i'm asking about specific devices, to hopefully land on the less glitchy ones. The one i will receive i paid 40$ for it, and if its totally bad, i can flip it on ebay i think, they are super overpriced on ebay for some reason.

Use a HD camcorder to allow you to capture the highest possible resolution, most digital camcorders record to SD memory card so absolutely no capture card is needed in the workflow. Just pull the SD card, plug into a card reader on your computer and copy the files off. Files are now ready to add into your editor.. Boff the resolution to Standard Definition (DVD or lower SD) after you have edited and assembled your final cut (this is done by "rendering" out the edited video to a usable video file)

Thanks for the advice, i do take it in consideration. I think it's totally fine, but i still wanna deal with a pesky VHS, its just fun, i know it's "wrong", but it is what it is. Once i get sick of it or fail, i'll definitely try something like u'r mentionning, because yes of course it's just so much more convenient and better foir one's sanity.
I'm not fully ready to spend on that, its not the same budget so for now what i'll do is keep thinking about it, i'll get the capture card soon, try to make it work, use a VHS deck to capture and test it and then i'll see where i go from there.

As far as Vegas filters, You may have to try a combination of filters to soften/mundge the video. But in one of the posts I made, there is a link to a search which has a lot of tutorials on how to achieve the vintage analog video look in Vegas without a direct VHS filter.. The greatest and easiest way though is to render out the edited video as SD quality, basically DVD resolution or less.. Vegas offers a lot of preset resolutions for rendering, those resolutions presets are for the highest quality.. To get lower resolution you will have to create a CUSTOM preset, at a lower resolution and even can lower the bit rate.

Thanks! Ah yes i see your link sorry, that's gonna come handy. I've tried yesterday to use Vegas (good thing i know premiere and after effect already) and it's quite good tbh! I wish it was freeware, it would beat anything else if it was. I found how to apply some vhs effects and play with resolutions and bitrate.
One thing i was surprised about is the tutorial i found to add the line noise and vhs glitches were actually just overlaying a alpha mask of a videoclip directly on the video. It didnt see any filter to do that specifically.
Yes its conveninent and works, but, i still feel like trying the analog way nontheless. I mean, it's good to have a panel of different tools available and its just fun to me as long as i can do that without spending very much at all.

What's the problem? Take a look at your equipment and check the connectors. Download and read the manuals and study the datasheet/specs.

Hahaha well those are at my mom's house, i will have to check them once i visit, i can only go from memory but yes i'll edfinitely do that and i hope one of them has TBC. I use to buy them on flea markets and second hand stores when they were still costing like 15$ and reselling them (i didnt even really know why they were so precious at that point), that was a while back, now they went 10x.

While we discussing getting convincing VHS appearance, look at this surreal VHS mod for the cyberpunk-2077 game.

Damn! That looks stunning, such a vibe for something fully digital. Did they release any info on the process they used to achieve this look? I'm always interested in that stuff, wondering if its shaders or post processing? I am making a videogame with some buddies of mine and that's the kind of infos that could be usefull for our project.

And thanks again to each of u for taking the time to write to help me, it's very nice from you guys to care!!!

[Azhash]

Hi, update on my situation: I received my Aver Media CE310B PCIe capture card.
Now i'm still trying to understand and figure out things, the capture card works, i got the drivers. It seems to work well with the vhs player menus i have but not with any tape tho.
I also tried with a ps1 in composite, it worked, fluid and pretty alright image. (with virtualDub)

The issue is, i tried with 2 different vhs players, regardless of wich of them and wich tape i try (random movies and a tape that has TV shows recorded on it) the composite signal is very distorded/scrumbled. I did some research here and if i understand it might be because of a protection, if so, do TV recording also have this signal scrumbling thing? As the other tapes also have the same issues (sorry, im not very versed in all that stuff)
I also tried to capture with S/Video when available, with the VHS i seem to have a pretty clear image but it's black and white, i cant tell if it comes from the adaptor, cuz it's basically a peritel to S/video adaptor.
I also have a VHS/DVD player, it has S/video output, i tried that, the image is clean in the menus, but i cant play a dvd cuz it looks like the lens is dead :/
But that tells me that at least my Avermedia card works with both input signals.

I just cant figure out what else could be the issue with the composite tho, i even tried 2 different compôsite cables, i tried VirtualDub, DScaler and AmaRec TV. Also installed the codecs (i think) like huffyuv and amv4. (Cant figure out how to convert amv4 files to something else tho, and if i understand its a 30$ codec so i might not want to pick that to actually capture)
Whith everything i tried, i always got the same exact result so i would think its not really a software issue i'm having.

[Darryl In Canada]

Home recordings of TV shows should NOT be affected by Macrovision, because that protection was only added during the commercial duplication process (on tapes of movies, etc.), not by your VCR when it recorded off-air. So if your TV recording tapes are also scrambling, something else is going on. You have a PAL VCR, right? Are you sure the tapes you are trying to play are PAL format?

Try playing the tape in the VHS deck and watching it on a TV firs. Does it look normal on TV? If yes, the issue is definitely in the capture chain. If it looks bad on TV too, the tape or deck has a problem.

Some VHS decks have AGC (automatic gain control) circuits that react badly when connected to capture cards. A Panasonic ES15 put into the workflow might help.

The S-Video black and white issue is probably from that passive adapter, which I dont think will work.