PLEASE HELP: Issue with converting PAL to DVD before Authoring

[Chris Hooper]

Yes, I know, I figured that out while you were working your butt off creating that tutorial you just did. LOL
Do you however, know how to implement BWDIF de-interlacing and DGPulldown into the AVISynth Script so that it can de-interlace and vid-standardize correctly?

[jagabo]

Now all I need to do is find a way to incorporate bwdif for de-interlacing

You probably don't want to deinterlace but rather Field Match. Upload a short segment of your source (like the VOB you provided earlier) so we can see exactly what you need.

[davexnet]

Yes, I know, I figured that out while you were working your butt off creating that tutorial you just did. LOL
Do you however, know how to implement BWDIF de-interlacing and DGPulldown into the AVISynth Script so that it can de-interlace and vid-standardize correctly?

That's OK it doesn't go to waste - may help somebody in the future!

[jagabo]

Do you however, know how to implement BWDIF de-interlacing and DGPulldown into the AVISynth Script

Pulldown is an MPEG 2 feature -- so it can't be done by AviSynth. It is done by the MPEG2 encoder or DgPulldown which simply adds the metadata.

[Chris Hooper]

Now all I need to do is find a way to incorporate bwdif for de-interlacing

You probably don't want to deinterlace but rather Field Match. Upload a short segment of your source (like the VOB you provided earlier) so we can see exactly what you need.

Here ya go, Jagabo.

[Chris Hooper]

After asking ChatGPT, it said that Field Matching would definitely be the best route to go if the video was originally Progressive but interlaced for CRT TV.
It said that being that the video is in PAL format, the chances are very strong that it was originally Progressive since it would only have to go from 24 FPS to 25 FPS. It said something about them usually just speeding up the video an extra 4% then using some 2:2 PullDown method, or something like that; I can't remember now. LOL
It gave me ways to check using things like MediaInfo, DGIndex, VirtualDub, or AVISynth, but that all seems quite technical to me. LOL

[jagabo]

I won't have a chance to look at it until tomorrow. Yes, it quite common for film sources to be sped up from 24 fps to 25 fps for PAL video. But there are many other methods. And cartoons in particular often use a mix of methods that make them harder to deal with.

[Chris Hooper]

Gotcha.
Thanks, Jagabo!

[davexnet]

Gotcha.
Thanks, Jagabo!

Titles can often have a different cadence from the main body of the video -
unfortunately that clip may/may not tell the full story

[Chris Hooper]

Here's a full episode, Dave.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AltuOyWPfg39hG5b17YJigEEnivC?e=JZGrtl

[cholla]

@ Chris Hooper,
I DLed the .vob & I will give it a test with AVStoDVD by itself.
To see if it will convert the PAL to NTSC.
I remember working with something like this a long time ago .

For doing decryptred rips from commercial DVD I recommend DVDFab Passkey Lite.
It starts out a trial version of DVDFab Passkey & goes to Passkey lite in 30 days IIRC.
It will rip to your HDD or SDD in DVD format but it will rip PAL as PAL & NTSC as NTSC.

[Chris Hooper]

I wouldn't waste my time for that, Cholla.
I tried that in the beginning and it came back choppy.
DGPullDown made the results come out almost identical but in NTSC format.

[cholla]

Does this mean you have accomplished what you wanted with a finished DVD in NTSC format.

How about the Menu?
I believe you posted you needed to keep the original menu.
I do not believe AVStoDVD can do that.
It can create it's own menu.

The only software I know of that does that is PGCedit.
When I did keep an original menu one of the writers of PGCEdit helped me.
I no longer know how to contact him.
I know it is complicated to do though.

There is a program I use that can create menus called Title Writer.
It can do a fairly simple menu that works.
It also has a bit of a learning curve.

[Chris Hooper]

Oh I'm FAR from accomplishing what I want with a finished NTSC DVD, Cholla.
I'm just taking it one small step at a time.
Jagabo is going to look at the video tomorrow to see if it needs de-interlaced or frame matched. I can't go any farther with anything until then.
I did find however, that when I use methods other than DGPullDown to convert PAL to NTSC, they don't even come close to how well that piece of software works with the ends results. That thing is a gem!
But Thank You SO Much for helping anyway, Cholla! I really appreciate it!
I'll definitely look into PGCedit and Title Writer because every bit helps!
When I'm finally done with figuring how to do the conversion correctly, with the help of everyone that's been so nice in doing so, I'll still need to Author the DVD.

[cholla]

When you get this far here is a post where I put some pictures of a menu I did with Title Writer:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/353284-AVStoDVD-beginners-guide-Any-video-to-DVD-V...10#post2749745

[Alwyn]

...

[Alwyn]

Removed so as not to waylay others.

[cholla]

I have not used DVDStyler for years as I always found it difficult to use.
I was helping a friend with "Beverly Hills Chihuahua" when it was a new movie.
I remember I did get a fairly good menu but I don't remember if it was the original

Title Writer for the menu example I posted the menu size is 98KB.

The movie I worked on with PGCEdit was XXX with Vin Diesel (so you know it was not a porn movie).
I had used DVDFab to "Split" the movie.
Then I wanted to "Merge" it back together.
Keeping the original menu with all functions.
DVDFab's "Merge" function could NOT do this.
If I had not had the help of one of the authors or writers of PGCEdit I doubt I could have done this.
PGCEdit is a complex software with a steep learning curve.

[Sharc]

DVDStyler will convert and author in one. I've attached a very basic demo using the full episode VTS_02 VOB posted above; I can't vouch for the audio sync (I split up that VTS_02 into three bits) and the video appears to be on-par with a full-blown AVISynth TFM (I think that's what it needs) + SplineResize > HCEnc > DGPulldown process.

DVDStyler has inserted the dupe frame at position 6.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hnP22eI-2xVZbnXeM5wlLq5PAAYP4-lU/view?usp=sharing

You think that frame duplications are on par with proper telecine, really?

[Chris Hooper]

I hate to say it, Alwyn; and definitely no disrespect to you, but I have to agree with Sharc.
I just looked at the 3 examples that you uploaded, and they weren't good at all.
I don't know anything about DVDStyler, and I'm just now learning a little bit about what seems to be decent methods for converting, but those examples weren't very good. Just from looking at them, they looked a little blurrier compared to the original files, I'm guessing maybe a lower video bitrate?, and the audio was out of sync. Also, the frame rate was really jittery, I'm guessing from the PAL to NTSC conversion.
I don't know what telecine is, but my guess is that DGPullDown does that, 'cause wow, the videos look SO nice when that is used. I really can't even tell a the difference between the before and after of PAL to NTSC.
But Thank You for going through the effort of trying to help me. I really appreciate it!

[jagabo]

I looked at the full episode in post #40 and saw that it was encoded interlaced but all the frames were progressive (ie, one film film per video frame). So you can treat it as a 25 fps progressive source. After resizing to 720x480 you can encode as 25 fps progressive MPEG2 (you might get warnings that there's a frame size and frame rate mismatch, ignore them) then use dgpulldown to add pulldown flags to make it 29.97i. Finally author to DVD without re-encoding as you would any other DVD compliant MPEG2 source.

[The_Doman]

I really wonder how much time/effort you really want to spend further on this DVD project?

Just interesting for comparison, keeping all interlaced using the good old Procoder.

[Chris Hooper]

Thank You So Much, Jagabo!
I figured it was probably Progressive frames that were interlaced, from what ChatGPT was saying, but I wanted an expert to verify.
May I asked what technique you used to verify? That way, I can do it on my own later on down the road if the challenge arises again.
Also, when I resize to 720x480, can I use FFmpeg to do so?, and if I do use FFmpeg, I'm guessing I won't tell it to de-interlace directly, but frame match progressively?

[davexnet]

Here's my progressive encode using A2D with 25 > 29,97 fps with pulldown.
https://we.tl/t-aA3rpyCjmG

You can drop the vob into vdub2 and looking at it frame by frame, you can clearly see it's progressive -
No combing and no other issues, (blending, etc.).
The only thing that's interlaced is the 20th Century ident during the titles.

An alternate method would be 25 > 23.976 slowdown - can also be done in A2D

[Chris Hooper]

Yeahhh, I'm not going to check out the video, Dave.
It wants me to sign up with that website and I'm not doing that.
I was able to encode the video instantly with no problem using FFmpeg and DGPullDown after I found out from Jag that it's progressive 25 interlaced.
I've just been trying to figure out how to get my m2v and a3c files back together as a vob file in FFmpeg. ChatGPT just keeps giving me the run around. I've spent the last 2-3 hours and 50 different scripts it's given me, ending up with nothing that works as far as combining the audio and video is concerned. Before I tried using FFmpeg, I tried to use AVStoDVD, but all it does is make the video that I converted in DGPullDown become all jittery again, so I quit that thing.

[davexnet]

Signin not necesssary. Just click "I agree" bottom left and a link appears

To get the m2v and ac3 "back together" you need the authoring program, for example, muxman, DVDauthor, etc

[Chris Hooper]

Ahhh gotcha. I'll give Muxman a shot then.

[Chris Hooper]

WOW, that MuxMan worked great on combining them!
Thank You So Much, Dave!

[jagabo]

I've just been trying to figure out how to get my m2v and a3c files back together as a vob file in FFmpeg.

Use:

ffmpeg -i video.m2v -i audio.ac3 -c copy output.vob

[Sharc]

An alternate method would be 25 > 23.976 slowdown - can also be done in A2D

One would then still have to add 2-3 pulldown to make it NTSC DVD framerate compliant.
AVS2DVD will do that as well.