Canopus Grass Valley ADVC-3000 or Matrox MXO2 LE

[plehoediv]

This is the correct frame size for digitized 625/50 ("PAL"/"SECAM").

Good to know.

It is up to you. Depending on what you want and how much money and effort you want to spend. How do you like this, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noLN3a10zCY

I like it a lot! Looks really nice. Mind sharing how exactly (hardware) you did this?

I suggest reading the operating manual from the ADVC3000. It outputs either DV over Firewire, or uncompressed over SD-SDI. Simpler ADVC-55 outputs DV over Firewire only. Do you have Firewire port in your computer, or can you buy a Firewire expansion card (about $15)?

Reading the manual is not going to help much because I don't know what I am looking for. However, the dude selling it told me that he did capture video from VCR to PC using the ADVC3000. He went in with s-video and came out with firewire...

If you want to convert your analog video to DV, then using a camcorder with analog-to-digital passthrough would be much cheaper. You feed your analog video to a camcorder, and get DV video out of it. No need to record tape, you just use the camcorder as an analog-to-digital converter. Actually, this is the route I suggest: it is bulletproof and gives decent quality.

I know now what you mean. I just never thought of going through a camcorder "backwards", if you know what I mean. I only think of them as a signal is coming out...

In the morning I am going to give that DVD/VCR combo a try to see what the quality is like. I also should have all the cables to firewire to the camcorder method. Wait, do not have thunderbolt to firewire cable. Maybe local store has it. I also need to check out how you capture in Davinci Resolve.

thanks.

[Bwaak]

How do you like this, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noLN3a10zCY

I like it a lot! Looks really nice. Mind sharing how exactly (hardware) you did this?

Not mine. See his other videos. In short: he uses an expensive board. But as he confesses, the board is not the most important part.

In the morning I am going to give that DVD/VCR combo a try to see what the quality is like. I also should have all the cables to firewire to the camcorder method. Wait, do not have thunderbolt to firewire cable. Maybe local store has it.

Ah, Firewire to Thunderbolt again... This is a whole another onion to peel. Maybe I should retract my recommendation.

EDIT: Just for kicks, skip to about 41 minute mark: https://youtu.be/avoWHyVmdLw?t=2469 This is 12voltvids capturing from a semi-pro Hi8 camcorder to ClonerAlliance box via composite.

[plehoediv]

Not mine. See his other videos. In short: he uses an expensive board. But as he confesses, the board is not the most important part.[/QUOTE]

OK... In short, I did leave a comment on YT and asked if he minds sharing his workflow and equipment info.

Ah, Firewire to Thunderbolt again... This is a whole another onion to peel. Maybe I should retract my recommendation.

I guess using adapters is not ideal!? I forgot to mention that I also have a Dell PowerEdge T620 running dual XEON E5-2697 v2 Processors. Not the fastest machine in the world anymore (It ranked 22nd fastest on ppbm7.com in 2013), but good enough for importing video using a firewire card. speaking of E5-2697 v2 CPU's. Amazing that those were almost $3000 bucks ten years ago and now you get them used for under $100 dollars! Amazing. Anyhow, the T620 also has a GeForce GTX780Ti, 64Gb RAM and 6 HDD in RAID. So it should be able to handle importing video footage using a firewire card. Only question is: Do I want to go that route? I was ready to retire that PC, to be honest...

EDIT: Just for kicks, skip to about 41 minute mark: https://youtu.be/avoWHyVmdLw?t=2469 This is 12voltvids capturing from a semi-pro Hi8 camcorder to ClonerAlliance box via composite.

I am afraid to ask: Are you saying this looks good or bad? See, I would consider that good footage given the circumstances, but I got careful calling something good on here, ha ha.

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

BTW, just want to say thanks to all the contributors to this thread. I really appreciate that!

[Bwaak]

Ah, Firewire to Thunderbolt again... This is a whole another onion to peel. Maybe I should retract my recommendation.

I guess using adapters is not ideal!?

It is fine if you can make it work

I forgot to mention that I also have a Dell PowerEdge T620 running dual XEON E5-2697 v2 Processors. Not the fastest machine in the world anymore (It ranked 22nd fastest on ppbm7.com in 2013), but good enough for importing video using a firewire card.

If it still works, it would be simpler than converting to Thunderbolt, but everyone has fun their own way.

EDIT: Just for kicks, skip to about 41 minute mark: https://youtu.be/avoWHyVmdLw?t=2469 This is 12voltvids capturing from a semi-pro Hi8 camcorder to ClonerAlliance box via composite.

I am afraid to ask: Are you saying this looks good or bad? See, I would consider that good footage given the circumstances, but I got careful calling something good on here, ha ha.

I think it looks OK. It was just an FYI. Some people, even those why are not strangers to computers, prefer having a straightforward solution that does not require much tinkering. 12voltvids is a pro so he does not make obvious rookie mistakes; at the same time he does it as a paying job, and he wants good enough quality quick and without losing time on post-processing.

Again, it is up to you to choose a particular approach. Capturing video as DV is one of the options. Capturing with an external box into AVC/MP4 is another. Capturing with a dongle or an expansion card into uncompressed is another. Or use DVD recorder to convert to MPEG-2 on the fly. Or use a fancy 12-bit SDI card.

[plehoediv]

[QUOTE=Bwaak;2684442]

Ah, Firewire to Thunderbolt again... This is a whole another onion to peel. Maybe I should retract my recommendation.

I guess using adapters is not ideal!?

It is fine if you can make it work

I am new to Apple but I thought their stuff is supposed to be "just" working, ha ha. I am going to order a Firewire to Thunderbolt adapter and see what happens. If it doesn't work, it goes back. : )

I forgot to mention that I also have a Dell PowerEdge T620 running dual XEON E5-2697 v2 Processors. Not the fastest machine in the world anymore (It ranked 22nd fastest on ppbm7.com in 2013), but good enough for importing video using a firewire card.

If it still works, it would be simpler than converting to Thunderbolt, but everyone has fun their own way.

Like I said, I was ready to retire the T620 but maybe I give it another shot.

EDIT: Just for kicks, skip to about 41 minute mark: https://youtu.be/avoWHyVmdLw?t=2469 This is 12voltvids capturing from a semi-pro Hi8 camcorder to ClonerAlliance box via composite.

I am afraid to ask: Are you saying this looks good or bad? See, I would consider that good footage given the circumstances, but I got careful calling something good on here, ha ha.

I think it looks OK. It was just an FYI. Some people, even those why are not strangers to computers, prefer having a straightforward solution that does not require much tinkering. 12voltvids is a pro so he does not make obvious rookie mistakes; at the same time he does it as a paying job, and he wants good enough quality quick and without losing time on post-processing.

I see.

Again, it is up to you to choose a particular approach. Capturing video as DV is one of the options. Capturing with an external box into AVC/MP4 is another. Capturing with a dongle or an expansion card into uncompressed is another. Or use DVD recorder to convert to MPEG-2 on the fly. Or use a fancy 12-bit SDI card.

I am in the middle of trying a few of the options you have mentioned. The only thing I can't get to work is to record to DVD on the Panasonic DMR-EX95V. I looked a the manual and I believe I did everything just like it says, but obviously it doesn't really work. DVD recording stops after a few seconds... : (

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

Short Version:

If I go from VCR 1 to VCR 2 (passthrough) and then to my little recording box, what is the "best" connection to use? RCA, SCART or S-Video?


Long Version:

Alright, the way I was doing it so far was to take my Blaupunkt RTV 936 (S-VHS, NO TBC, 7 Heads, Hi-Fi) and record to SD card on this device, using S-Video cable. Some say the footage looks Ok and others say it sucks. Fair enough. I actually posted a sample on here, so you can see for yourself.

I then borrowed a Panasonic DMR-EX95V from a friend, planning on recording my tapes to DVD, but I couldn't figure it out, so I just started using the VCR part of it, to record to the device I listed above. Why? Because I thought it might not hurt to use a second device. Might look better, might not. : )

Having said that, I just tried another option after watching a few YT videos. I use the Panasonic as a "passthrough" device. Coming from the Blaupunkt (VCR1) I go into the Panasonic via SCART cable and from there via S-Video into the little recording box. Is SCART better than S-Video?

Here is the sample footage using my "passthrough" method. Does anyone see a difference?

Thanks.

[dellsam34]

Where is the other sample to comapre it to?
The drawbacks of using a device like that one that compresses and de-interlaces on the fly is that all the baked in artifacts are there forever to see. Capturing lossless AVI first allows you to adjust the brightness level, trim or mask the ugly frame egdes, possible noise reduction, quality de-interlacing and/or resizing, then quality encoding. It all boils down to your own satisfaction, If you are fine with the results none of us here have a say, But most of us here don't consider that as quality capture.

[lollo]

Is SCART better than S-Video?

Scart can convey Composite, Y/C, and RGB signals, S-Video can convey only Y/C signal.

Generally (not always) the S-Video cables are better quality than Scart cables , but the signals are the same quality (exept if inside of the device one of the 2 signal path is degraded, rare).

Comparing your 2 videos, the second has different levels, and suffer less of horizontal jitter. Also color fluctuations are less evident. The second features slightly less details.



Image comparison here: https://imgsli.com/MTYzMjMw

Video comparison here: compare.mp4

[oln]

If using the default settings (auto - it's supposed to activate only on certain types of input like vcr) one may have some extra noise reduction from the dvd-recorder active which could slightly impact the detail level. Unless you are capturing to lossless video files it might be preferable to leave it on as it being will likely result in more compression artifacts instead which are gonna be much more noticeable.

[plehoediv]

Where is the other sample to comapre it to?

Post #17 on the first page...

The drawbacks of using a device like that one that compresses and de-interlaces on the fly is that all the baked in artifacts are there forever to see.

I see.

Capturing lossless AVI

Sorry, there is so much information coming at me that I get confused and mix things up, so how do I do that again? I think it is using a capture card and then record on the PC, right?

It all boils down to your own satisfaction, If you are fine with the results none of us here have a say, But most of us here don't consider that as quality capture.

Well, right now I am happy with the results. Still, knowing that there is a lot of room for improvement wants me to capture better footage, but again, it gets a bit overwhelming at times. Not because it is so complicated on the surface, but I have other stuff to do. No need to find another rabbit hole to be going down to. If you know what I mean.

On the other hand, all I have to do is sell my 3 VCR's and get one with TBC. That will make a difference. Then decide on a capture card. Either buy one or rent one. I can rent a ADVC110-Canopus for $50 a week. I guess the whole thing isn't that complicated, ha ha.

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

Is SCART better than S-Video?

Scart can convey Composite, Y/C, and RGB signals, S-Video can convey only Y/C signal.

Generally (not always) the S-Video cables are better quality than Scart cables , but the signals are the same quality (exept if inside of the device one of the 2 signal path is degraded, rare).

Comparing your 2 videos, the second has different levels, and suffer less of horizontal jitter. Also color fluctuations are less evident. The second features slightly less details.


[Attachment 69867 - Click to enlarge]

Image comparison here: https://imgsli.com/MTYzMjMw

Video comparison here:
[Attachment 69866 - Click to enlarge]

Dude, remember in the movie "The Wolf of Wall Street" how he makes his sale at the Investor Center and the big guy behind him says, "How'd you f*ckin' do that?" That is how I just felt, ha ha. Amazing. Really appreciate that!

I honestly like the first one better. Which one do you like better?

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

If using the default settings (auto - it's supposed to activate only on certain types of input like vcr) one may have some extra noise reduction from the dvd-recorder active which could slightly impact the detail level. Unless you are capturing to lossless video files it might be preferable to leave it on as it being will likely result in more compression artifacts instead which are gonna be much more noticeable.

Thanks for the input. Gonna have to read this a few more time to fully understand it.

[plehoediv]

I found an old usb type capture device made by basetech. From my understanding they are manufactured by a bunch of companies with a different name on it. Anyhow, I captured the video using virtualdub. The audio sync is off but I am sure I can fix that. The question is, does this capture look better than the other ones I posted here!?

Thanks.

[dellsam34]

Where is the capture?

[plehoediv]

Where is the capture?

I am not sure what happened. Uploading it again...

Only problem is, I have two files. One is called test and the other "test after". I forgot what the "after" was, ha ha. I followed the instructions of this video online and I believe the "after" had something to do with interlacing the right top or bottom of the video... Have to do it later again when I have more time. Sorry.

The "after" file was too big, that is why it didn't work the first time. I then tried to shorten the clip but when I saved it, it made it twice as big. I guess I gorgot to pick the right compression!?

[lollo]

I ignore what is your new device, but here my comments:

- the levels are crushed (should be avoided)


[Attachment 69900 - Click to enlarge]

- comparison between the original ClearClick capture (Upload.mp4) which includes deinterlacing and who knows what and last Unknown device capture (test.avi), where I applied a very basic not optimized AviSynth processing consisting of deinterlacing, denoise and light sharpening (probably not necessary because the capture is already over sharpened).
Judge yourself.

video comparison (compressed to h264 to save space): compare.mp4

image slider comparison: https://imgsli.com/MTYzNzA0

image comparison:

[dellsam34]

We've been warning people about that Clearclick gadget for few years now, People like to go by what they see on YouTube, Oh well.

[plehoediv]

lollo,

thanks for doing that again. I did another capture. This time I did it on a Panasonic DMR-EX95V using S-Video, whereas before I used a Blaupunkt RTV 936 with RCA. The Blaupunkt is also new and I only cleaned the machine with a cleaning tape. Anyhow, I think this footage looks better.

Thanks.

[lollo]

You should have all the elements now to perform a comparison and make a judgement by yourself. If something is not clear, just ask. Good luck with your captures!

[lollo]

People like to go by what they see on YouTube, Oh well

That also apply on post processing. The above YouTube link refers to VirtualDub (not 2) and Handbrake (???) for (low quality) deinterlace and encoding of an analog capture, while few AviSynth QTGMC lines and a ffmpeg command line are easier (for me, others may disagree) and more than adequate, and provide higher quality, as you know very well

[dellsam34]

I meant by "what they see on youtube" as device recommendation not quality presentation.

[lollo]

I was not referring to the quality of the presentation, but to the quality of the proposed workflow for post-processing an analog capture

[plehoediv]

We've been warning people about that Clearclick gadget for few years now, People like to go by what they see on YouTube, Oh well.

Everything has its ups and downs.

I am also the type of person who just buys something to get going. If I would sit there and do the research first, i would never get going, if you know what I mean.

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

You should have all the elements now to perform a comparison and make a judgement by yourself. If something is not clear, just ask. Good luck with your captures!

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

People like to go by what they see on YouTube, Oh well

That also apply on post processing. The above YouTube link refers to VirtualDub (not 2) and Handbrake (???) for (low quality) deinterlace and encoding of an analog capture, while few AviSynth QTGMC lines and a ffmpeg command line are easier (for me, others may disagree) and more than adequate, and provide higher quality, as you know very well

So is that what you use for post processing? AviSynth?

[lollo]

Yes. It requires some time and some effort, but it is worth it.

[plehoediv]

Yes. It requires some time and some effort, but it is worth it.

Alright. I guess I just found another rabbit hole to go down to. Ha ha.

[lollo]

You are in good company https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/407467-Vhs-capture-advice/page14#post2684438 (the second adept in few days).

[plehoediv]

You are in good company https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/407467-Vhs-capture-advice/page14#post2684438 (the second adept in few days).

Whenever I see that code has to be written, I am afraid to look, ha ha.

thanks.