Windows 10

[SameSelf]

I use utvideo, it was recommended here recently.

about that software running on win10, just use whatever you have/use now if it works. You must persuade yourself you are not missing anything yet. You can stop windows to get to internet. So far it works like that. Perhaps in 5 years it would not but so far it is possible. So use a portal to web like cheap, old laptop. Set up storage on LAN and/or exchange data through that if necessary.

About asking developers if this or that run on win10,..., they perhaps wait for someone else to report if this or that works, if they care. Not sure how dmfs for example, is it still in active development, I remember it took a long time always to adjust that software for new Adobe or Sony Vegas releases....

MP4Box you do not need to install, you just need 5 or 6 files in a directory and it would run with cmd line (do not know about gui). Go to the Mp4box videohelp download page, read comments at the bottom, I remember there was someone who posted those files you need.

Thanks for the tips! Noted!

[Steve(MS)]

Maybe it's time for us to start an anti-Forbes campaign...

because unless the URL includes some sort of referer string, I am always redirected to their useless 'Welcome' page

[/OT]

Looks like you are correct, it worked last night but not now when I tried it.
Anyway, the jest of it, Microsoft was asked how they knew all those statistics about how much time people were using W10 OS and other M$ products.
The spokesman answer he didn't know, he would have to get back with details...

Plain and simple, W10 is spying on users in ways their previous OSs were not.
It is pure bs to state earlier OSs did the same.
Now if anyone knows this and is alright with this by all means use W10.

[usually_quiet]

Maybe it's time for us to start an anti-Forbes campaign...

because unless the URL includes some sort of referer string, I am always redirected to their useless 'Welcome' page

[/OT]

Looks like you are correct, it worked last night but not now when I tried it.
Anyway, the jest of it, Microsoft was asked how they knew all those statistics about how much time people were using W10 OS and other M$ products.
The spokesman answer he didn't know, he would have to get back with details...

Plain and simple, W10 is spying on users in ways their previous OSs were not.
It is pure bs to state earlier OSs did the same.
Now if anyone knows this and is alright with this by all means use W10.

Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 actually do collect some data (especially if you agree to be in the customer experience improvement program), just not to the same extent as W10. ...and Microsoft patched Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 to collect even more data in the past year. I used win10wiwi to disable those updates, and can verify they exist.

[Steve(MS)]

Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 actually do collect some data (especially if you agree to be in the customer experience improvement program), just not to the same extent as W10. ...and Microsoft patched Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 to collect even more data in the past year. I used win10wiwi to disable those updates, and can verify they exist.

That may be true for most users however I have update turned off and my OS ( W7 Pro)doesn't contact M$ servers.
The only time I would consider any update is if something isn't working correctly and I don't do patches.
My philosophy is similar to hello_hello's approach with his running of XP.

Also, I turn off all updates for few installed programs on my computer (I mostly run portable programs).

[SameSelf]

huhhh? Seriously? Did I just read this correctly? It can't be. Wow, simply wow. smh. I wonder how Intel feels about this. I just bought a Quadro Pro card and according to nVidia, their Windows 10 drivers are still beta. I think I am experiencing the first stage of grief: denial. I will soon be moving on to anger if this is confirmed and MS doesn't backtrack.

You can't use Windows 7 or 8 on Skylake CPUs!!!!!

Put that in your mouth and smoke it!

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3023533/microsoft-windows/microsoft-support-windo...re-itbwcw.html

and this

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-updates-support-policy-new-cpus-will-require-windows-10/

and this rather cryptically worded essay:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9964/microsoft-to-only-support-new-processors-on-windows-10

[SameSelf]

Microsoft has updated us on their list of Skylake cpus they will support on Win7/8. Hehe, I love Mary Jo's characterization of the situation:

We don't really know exactly what that statement means, and I'm guessing neither does Microsoft at this point.

Well put, Mary Jo. It is clear that the problems that Microsoft are experiencing are so bad that they are literally making this stuff up as they go. I mean listen to this drivel from Microsoft,

Windows 7 was designed nearly 10 years ago before any x86/x64 SoCs existed. For Windows 7 to run on any modern silicon, device drivers and firmware need to emulate Windows 7's expectations for interrupt processing, bus support, and power states - which is challenging for WiFi, graphics, security, and more.

Blah, blah, blah, Microsoft. Instead of convincing people to switch or stay on Windows, you are encouraging them to jump ship. This is like watching the Roman Empire fall. I think I will go pop some popcorn....

http://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-microsofts-list-of-skylake-devices-that-will-be-sup...ing-windows-7/

[hogger129]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but is Microsoft saying that Windows 7 and 8 will not install or run when using Skylake CPU's? Or are they simply saying they are not supporting newer hardware on those old OSes?

This is total crap because Microsoft says that Windows 8.1 will be supported until 2019 and extended support until 2023. They effectively gave us all the middle finger and said that policy no longer applies if you are on newer hardware with zero notice.

I'm totally in favor of a mass move over to Linux. The problem is there are still some programs that require me to use Windows. I'm curious if I can just cut it off from the internet, partition it off, and keep on using it as long as I like without worrying about security issues as long as I am running an AV program on it.

Sorry, I just do not want to be forced onto Windows 10. Microsoft made good OSes when it released 7 and 8.1. They should keep supporting these. Why fix it if it isn't broken? Those OSes will continue to make money for them. It's not like Windows will fade away and become irrelevant if they don't put out a new OS every 5 years and force everyone onto it.

[SameSelf]

Two important things to realize here:

1. Not even Microsoft knows what any of this means.
2. It is a moving target.

[ackboo]

is Microsoft saying that Windows 7 and 8 will not install or run when using Skylake CPU's?

They are saying that if you try to install an old os on skylake or kabylake you are on your own. If you have problems don't expect any solution from microsoft. Except of course an upgrade to windows 10. IMHO it is a bit early to really know, the corporate world won't like that, not one bit. Maybe they will revise their position, at least for skylake.

[hogger129]

is Microsoft saying that Windows 7 and 8 will not install or run when using Skylake CPU's?

They are saying that if you try to install an old os on skylake or kabylake you are on your own. If you have problems don't expect any solution from microsoft. Except of course an upgrade to windows 10. IMHO it is a bit early to really know, the corporate world won't like that, not one bit. Maybe they will revise their position, at least for skylake.

Well so much for the support life that Windows promised through 2020 for W7 and 2023 for W8.1.

[OneIron]

My understanding is that support will be dropped for Windows 8 but not 8.1.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ackboo]

Maybe, I think there is hope for windows 8.1. The only thing you can do is wait.
As far as I know they will support windows 7 and 8.1 on older architectures, they are altering the deal for skylake and up, pray that they don't alter it any further

[ackboo]

My understanding is that support will be dropped for Windows 8 but not 8.1.

Too early to really know, but the press coverage is mentioning windows 8.1.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/01/skylake-users-given-18-months-to...to-windows-10/

[OneIron]

I understand their thinking. They would like to consolidate the supported hardware as much as possible. One reason for the stability of OS X is limited and controlled hardware. It's amazing to me that Windows works as well as it does on the almost infinite number of hardware configurations currently supported.

IMHO, Microsoft should have done what Apple did with OS X, a complete rewrite of the OS...


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[ackboo]

IMHO, Microsoft should have done what Apple did with OS X, a complete rewrite of the OS...

Well this is not really comparable, before the switch to x86 intel cpus macs used PowerPC cpus. They couldn't use what they already had with a different architecture so they used a BSD derivative and added their GUI on top of that. This had the effect of giving them an already proven os to work with, and now mac osx is a certified Unix.

Now that the switch is done apple still doesn't care about backward compatibility, but for commercial reasons. They get away with it since their user base doesn't seem to care.
Windows backward compatibility is awesome, here's hope that it stays that way. Technical reasons aside, I think that microsoft is switching business model and that their users will become the product in some way. All that spying is no accident.

[PuzZLeR]

Apple's marketing will have you believe their OS is the best because it's fast, invincible and reliable. This is true to some extent, but that to me is as convincing as a sprinter telling me he is a great baseball player because he is a pinch runner. He can't hit, he can't field, he can't do anything else. He just runs fast, and only comes into the game to take over from a slower runner in key situations and is capable of stealing bases or harder to get out with certain plays. An example of being great, but very limited.

And as per Windows 7/8.1 not working with Skylake, or whatnot, and Microsoft's promise of continued support, they'll just play it out like "Hey, if you upgrade your Windows 7/8.1 to Windows 10, you're still supported."

[OneIron]

IMHO, Microsoft should have done what Apple did with OS X, a complete rewrite of the OS...

Well this is not really comparable, before the switch to x86 intel cpus macs used PowerPC cpus. They couldn't use what they already had with a different architecture so they used a BSD derivative and added their GUI on top of that. This had the effect of giving them an already proven os to work with, and now mac osx is a certified Unix.

Now that the switch is done apple still doesn't care about backward compatibility, but for commercial reasons. They get away with it since their user base doesn't seem to care.
Windows backward compatibility is awesome, here's hope that it stays that way. Technical reasons aside, I think that microsoft is switching business model and that their users will become the product in some way. All that spying is no accident.

Good point. It wasn't a complete rewrite but by basing it on a proven OS (UNIX), they started out ahead of the game.


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[usually_quiet]

There are some hardware-related problems to contend with if you want to run Windows 7 on a Skylake system instead of Windows 8.1 or Windows 10, but they were known to Microsoft some time ago.

I read early last year that Skylake chipsets wouldn't support the EHCI host controller (USB 2.0 spec), only the xHCI host controller (USB 3.0 spec). Unfortunately, Windows 7 doesn't include drivers for the xHCI host controller. Because USB doesn't work during installation, it is necessary to use a PS/w keyboard and mouse plus a SATA-connected DVD drive and optical media when installing Windows 7. This means that installing Windows 7 on their new Skylake system is going to be difficult for some people.

I'm not sure how many similarly troublesome hardware issues exist with Windows 8.1, although obviously there is no support for some new hardware features, like DirectX 12.

Microsoft should have made this decision much sooner. If Microsoft and the relevant hardware companies had agreed that Windows 10 would be required before Skylake was released, there would have been some disappointment, but not the confusion and anger that customers who bought a Skylake system with the expectation of running Windows 7 or 8.1 on it must be feeling.

There was another discussion about Microsoft's change in policy in another thread a few days ago. https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376344-Do-not-buy-a-Skylake-cpu?p=2428287&viewfull=1#post2428287

[SameSelf]

That was Intel's decision, not Microsoft's, although this does not absolve them from complicity in my opinion.

[usually_quiet]

That was Intel's decision, not Microsoft's, although this does not absolve them from complicity in my opinion.

No. Microsoft is solely responsible for its own decision not to support Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 on a Skylake system. Not only that, Microsoft explicitly stated that the reason they would stop offering full support for Skylake systems running Windows 7 and 8.1 was the new hardware features that did not exist when their older OS products were released. Surely Microsoft knew about the new features before Skylake was released.

Intel apparently decided that running Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 on a Skylake system should be possible. Most of the Skylake motherboards I have been looking at do support Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, although not every available version of these operating systems.

[cornemuse]

I tried 10, u/g from XP-64, cannot 'validate/register', apparently cannot do this from XP. Am I gonna have to purchase 'full' W-10?? Or stick with XP? (<- I still prefer XP, it does all I want, still, so far, , , , )

-c-

[usually_quiet]

I tried 10, u/g from XP-64, cannot 'validate/register', apparently cannot do this from XP. Am I gonna have to purchase 'full' W-10?? Or stick with XP? (<- I still prefer XP, it does all I want, still, so far, , , , )

-c-

Windows XP and Vista were excluded from the free upgrade offer. Yes, you will have to purchase your copy of Windows 10.

In the past, Microsoft has allowed people who bought a Windows OEM license for a PC they built themselves to move it to a new PC later, but it is hard to say if this will be permitted in the future. A retail Windows 10 license would be the safest choice if you are planning to build a replacement PC someday and re-use that same Windows 10 license for it.

Maybe you can run Windows XP SP 3 as a virtual machine on Windows 10.

[PuzZLeR]

Speaking of XP...

Perhaps this is flame-throwing, but I don't mean it this way. I'm just stating my feelings.

Windows XP is THE best O/S I have ever worked with.

This post-XP nonsense was all a waste of time, for a decade now, and planned obsolescense IMO. All they needed to do was implement a feature to allow 4+GB memory, and 2+TB HDD, such as in "XP SP4", and we'd be just fine with XP, even today.

[p_l]

Yup, agree.

[usually_quiet]

Perhaps this is flame-throwing, but I don't mean it this way. I'm just stating my feelings.

Windows XP is THE best O/S I have ever worked with.

This post-XP nonsense was all a waste of time, for a decade now, and planned obsolescense IMO. All they needed to do was implement a feature to allow 4+GB memory, and 2+TB HDD, such as in "XP SP4", and we'd be just fine with XP, even today.

If the XP UI had been preserved in later editions of Windows, that would likely be enough for most of the people who are unhappy with them. I have a feeling that even if it were economically feasible for Microsoft to patch an OS that it is no longer selling for all eternity, from a technical standpoint it would not be feasible to do so. XP 64-bit did allow 4+ GB RAM as I recall.

Speaking for myself, I have come to prefer Windows 7 to XP, but I will reluctantly move on to Windows 10 for my next PC once I get around to building it. However, I'll be doing that on my own schedule, not on Microsoft's schedule, and my current PCs will continue to run either Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 until I recycle them.

[cornemuse]

Speaking of XP...

Perhaps this is flame-throwing, but I don't mean it this way. I'm just stating my feelings.

Windows XP is THE best O/S I have ever worked with.

This post-XP nonsense was all a waste of time, for a decade now, and planned obsolescense IMO. All they needed to do was implement a feature to allow 4+GB memory, and 2+TB HDD, such as in "XP SP4", and we'd be just fine with XP, even today.

XP -64 fixes this, I have tried more than 8 g, but, '8 is enough'. I have a Tosh 505(?) laptop (W-7) I swapped out hdd's & installed xp 64 bit. Much better, I can 'go back' to 7 if necessary.

-c-

[ackboo]

Windows 10 is now a recommended update for windows 7 and 8.1. Check your windows update setting or the installation might start automatically.

If the 'Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important update' option is enabled, the update will not only be downloaded, but the installation will be started.

http://betanews.com/2016/02/01/microsoft-makes-windows-10-a-recommended-update-for-win...and-8-1-users/

[hogger129]

I decided to upgrade today and actually I kind of like W10. The user interface is a little different but it feels easier to get used to than Windows 8.1 did. Just shut off all the stuff that sends information to Microsoft.

[PuzZLeR]

I've been running 10 for about 4 months now on two of my PCs, and I don't dislike it. It's just that I feel everything was so unnecessary since XP, when all that we really may have needed were just a couple of service packs for it since.

And yeah, I took the time to shut up Windows 10 myself. You want me to test software? Fine. I would be more than cool with that. But if you want info on me - not for free and/or not without my consent.

[OneIron]

I've been running W10 on my primary PC for about two months. I've been pretty satisfied so far. I really like the File History feature. And the UI is close enough to W7 that I have no problems recommending it.