Windows 10

[Gregg]

It's much worse than you thought:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/09/windows-10-data-tracking-spying-lev...x#7e07dc757aa9

[ackboo]

Microsoft provides a list of the gathered data, the default telemetry setting is "enhanced"

Windows 10 feedback, diagnostics, and privacy: FAQ
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/feedback-diagnostics-privacy-faq

Configure telemetry and other settings in your organization
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

[ackboo]

Windows 10, now displaying ads on your lock screen.

How to Disable Ads on Your Windows 10 Lock Screen
http://www.howtogeek.com/243263/how-to-disable-ads-on-your-windows-10-lock-screen

[hydra3333]

It's much worse than you thought:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/09/windows-10-data-tracking-spying-lev...x#7e07dc757aa9

Uh oh.

snip.

If true, sounds like a US security service flunky, to me.

forbes.com. said:

snip

... seems like your IP address, SSIDs of networks you connect to including "?connection requirements?", (private?) programs you have installed, etc. Would anyone suggest a feeling that the MS statement may not be entirely kosher ?

[Gravitator]

Like how Win10 works well for system restore.
Is said that the emergence of API Vulkan allow play modern games on WinXP and Linux (cheer up disadvantaged users).
As I once (a long time ago) experimented with the installation of alternative drivers for the HDD, then managed to increase system boot speed WinXP by 3x times! - It is interesting to learn about these high-speed drivers for Win10.

[Tom Saurus]

I have blocked Windows Update on my Windows 7 computer. I am sure there are dangers and drawbacks for doing so, but I don't want to be upgraded to Windows 10 when my computer is working fine with its current operating system.

[Gregg]

There's software that will update your windows offline. I used this one several times but that was before MS started to force download the W10 updates (it looks that they took care of that):

http://download.wsusoffline.net/

The update is entirely automated. It will connect, download and install everything (you marked in the dialog window before that) by itself.

[SameSelf]

Should we all breathe a little easier now?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10167/microsoft-extends-skylake-support-on-windows-7-and-windows-81

Not really. Let's face it. If Microsoft can't convince Win7 users to upgrade by flashing free W10 offers in their face, then by golly...(and yes, I am looking at you XP users!)

[gll99]

I started looking into Win10 as soon as the upgrade was made available last year but did nothing except gather info. My 1st comments start in post #33 of this thread.

A few days ago I finally took the plunge. I wanted to upgrade my wife's Win 8.1 laptop but I decided to use my Win8 pro OEM license on one of my old computers so I could upgrade that and test the process before I mess with her computer.

My setup and steps:
I didn't have win 8 pre-installed on my desktop since I was saving it for another PC but that's an old story told way back in this thread

- Started with an xp sp3 os on a small hdd which I removed from the desktop pc for safekeeping
- Replaced it with a small (80gb) NTFS formatted but empty hdd
- Installed Win8 Pro from a purchased OEM DVD disc choosing custom install to avoid doing any updates which I wouldn't need and would really slow the process.
- After the install made sure (in system) that it was activated. It wasn't! so I used the activate button and then it showed that it was. (Activation of a qualifying os is critical before proceeding with the Win10 upgrade)

Now on to Win10:
I had already downloaded an iso of Win10 pro 64bits last summer from MS and burned it to a bootable disc so I used this as the upgrade source.

- I believe I wasted time with this next step. I had assumed that I could boot the Win10 disc and upgrade this way especially when I was presented with the options to either upgrade or do a full install. I knew from previous posts by johns0 and Cauptain early in the thread that I couldn't do a full install yet since I had to upgrade to Win10 first so I chose upgrade. It surprised me when I received a message a bit later that I had to do the upgrade from inside Win8.
- I removed the Win10 disc and rebooted to Win8 and then reloaded the Win10 disc in the drive but the upgrade did not restart by itself. I went to the file manager (explorer), opened the disc and ran the setup manually. When prompted I chose the upgrade option again and this time it worked!
- I chose custom install but this time allowed the updates to take place since my iso of Win10 is near 10 months old I felt it might help the upgrade process go more smoothly by installing up-to-date drivers and files during the upgrade rather than after. Later in the process there is a request to install some 3rd party apps and the custom option to accept or decline them individually is much smaller and on the left so its easy to miss.

Post Win10 upgrade:
- After the install it's important to again check in "system" to make sure the Win10 OS activated especially if you plan on doing a complete fresh install of Win10 later. It won't work if the upgrade didn't activate properly.
- I also strongly suggest checking all the privacy settings since it provides control over what certain apps or class of apps can and cannot do. Some of the defaults may not be desirable but shutting some off could also limit some functionality. It's a personal decision but I changed a lot of them from the defaults until I'm more comfortable with them.
- One critical setting I changed is how updates are received. It's under "Updates & Security" "Windows Update" "Advanced Options" " Choose How Updates Are Delivered". Since I only have 1 PC with Win10 on my network right now I chose to turn this off. This does not turn off updates only how they are received and shared. Those with multiple Win10 networked devices might want to share updates over the LAN. What I didn't like is that the default was set to on and it permitted sharing my updates over the internet using my bandwidth. I like having the control but the default should not be set that way by MS.

I like that the os boots in desktop mode, has a taskbar for frequently used and active apps and a type of start menu with options to add more items to the list. With a few simple tweaks it looks very similar to my old winxp. Starting from a bare os I have quite a few programs to install but so far it's pretty painless considering I have an old PC (Specs in post #33). Every 64 bit or 32 bit program I have tried so far has worked. The only driver I had to install manually was the Realtek audio which was somewhat expected. My older mb does not provide any Win10 compatible drivers. Since I have an Nvidia GT320 video card connected via hdmi those drivers were installed by Win10 and work fine for audio over hdmi but I also wanted my front audio jacks activated so I downloaded the latest Win10 64 bit audio drivers from Realtek and they work fine when selected.

I'm in the reading, googling, learning and beautifying phase but my first impressions are good. It's much better than Win8 and win 8.1. The navigation and visuals are still a bit awkward for me after being so long with XP but I can't fault the os for that. I had similar learning curves with each version going back to early editions of windows.

A few more days and if all goes well I'll upgrade my wife's laptop from Win8.1 (vl) and see if it's as easy as this install and upgrade was. It should be faster since all I have to do is the upgrade from an existing 8.1 and I know which important tweaks have to be done first before beautifying the look.

[Gurd99]

Do programs like gwx control panel or never 10 completely stop updates even if the Metered connection setting gets turned off however possible?

[usually_quiet]

Do programs like gwx control panel or never 10 completely stop updates even if the Metered connection setting gets turned off however possible?

Apparently Never 10 still allows all updates to download.

From Never 10:

Never10 does NOT prevent the installation of Windows updates, including the infamous Get Windows 10 (GWX) update KB3035583. Never10 simply employs Microsoft's documented and sanctioned configuration settings to instruct it NOT to change the installed version of Windows.

I'm not sure what GWX Control Panel does with respect to stopping updates from downloading.

I use Windows 10 When I Want It. win10wiwi stops updates to Windows 7 or Windows 8.x system which are related to the Windows 10 upgrade from downloading, It can stop updates to add more data collection features from downloading too, if you so choose. It also removes these updates if they are already downloaded. As far as I know other sorts of updates will still download to a Windows 7 or Windows 8.x unless they are turned off by other means.

[Gurd99]

Do programs like gwx control panel or never 10 completely stop updates even if the Metered connection setting gets turned off however possible?

Apparently Never 10 still allows all updates to download.

From Never 10:

Never10 does NOT prevent the installation of Windows updates, including the infamous Get Windows 10 (GWX) update KB3035583. Never10 simply employs Microsoft's documented and sanctioned configuration settings to instruct it NOT to change the installed version of Windows.

I'm not sure what GWX Control Panel does with respect to stopping updates from downloading.

I use Windows 10 When I Want It. win10wiwi stops updates to Windows 7 or Windows 8.x system which are related to the Windows 10 upgrade from downloading, It can stop updates to add more data collection features from downloading too, if you so choose. It also removes these updates if they are already downloaded. As far as I know other sorts of updates will still download to a Windows 7 or Windows 8.x unless they are turned off by other means.

Thanks usually_quiet

I have been using windows 10 on a laptop & every now & then the updates are prepared on startup causing my laptop to take like 5mins just to startup which is so annoying. I can't stand this aspect of win10, the user should have the right to utterly disable this behavior.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks usually_quiet

I have been using windows 10 on a laptop & every now & then the updates are prepared on startup causing my laptop to take like 5mins just to startup which is so annoying. I can't stand this aspect of win10, the user should have the right to utterly disable this behavior.

I don't know if the windows 10 update blockers will be of any help to you on a windows 10 system. I know that Windows 10 Pro allows delaying user-specified updates, but Windows 10 Home does not.

Forbes published some suggestions last year for altering Windows 10's update behavior, although I don't know if readers outside the US can access them.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/26/windows-10-how-to-stop-forced-updat.../#9f9193f5d1f6

[Gurd99]

Thanks usually_quiet

I have been using windows 10 on a laptop & every now & then the updates are prepared on startup causing my laptop to take like 5mins just to startup which is so annoying. I can't stand this aspect of win10, the user should have the right to utterly disable this behavior.

I don't know if the windows 10 update blockers will be of any help to you on a windows 10 system. I know that Windows 10 Pro allows delaying user-specified updates, but Windows 10 Home does not.

Forbes published some suggestions last year for altering Windows 10's update behavior, although I don't know if readers outside the US can access them.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/26/windows-10-how-to-stop-forced-updat.../#9f9193f5d1f6

I like the sound of Option 1: Stop The Windows Update Service. So simply & wondering if it stops all updates & if windows will somehow restart the service?

[SameSelf]

So it looks like it comes down to choosing between two evils:

1. Stick with W7 and be faced with eternally long update times. This is exactly the sitch I am currently in because vapoursynth refuses to work on my clean install:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/sticking-with-windows-7-the-forecast-calls-for-pain/
The most salient quote from the link above: "I wouldn't be surprised if the update count is up over 350 by then, with a clean install taking days."

2. Upgrade to W10 and be forced into constant updates against your will.


...I suppose all this can be made moot by just unplugging your video editing machine from the web and ditching freeware forever (yes, I am looking at you, FM).

[usually_quiet]

I don't know if the windows 10 update blockers will be of any help to you on a windows 10 system. I know that Windows 10 Pro allows delaying user-specified updates, but Windows 10 Home does not.

Forbes published some suggestions last year for altering Windows 10's update behavior, although I don't know if readers outside the US can access them.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/26/windows-10-how-to-stop-forced-updat.../#9f9193f5d1f6

I like the sound of Option 1: Stop The Windows Update Service. So simply & wondering if it stops all updates & if windows will somehow restart the service?

Think about it. Microsoft can't access your machine remotely without your cooperation and the update service is completely disabled. How could Microsoft make any changes to your machine? Hack their way in?

[El Heggunte]

So it looks like it comes down to choosing between two evils:

1. Stick with W7 and be faced with eternally long update times. This is exactly the sitch I am currently in because vapoursynth refuses to work on my clean install

According to the URL below, the latest Vapoursynth(s) require only the IE11 mandatory updates:

http://www.vapoursynth.com/2015/09/windows-update-use-it/

After doing a clean install of Windows 7, install the newest .NET Framework 4.x.x, then Internet Explorer 11, and then, turn off the automagic updates forever

P.S.:

Yes, 216 Important updates are available even with Service Pack 1 installed, and

you'd have to be crazy to connect to the Internet without installing those patches first.

BullShît.

[SameSelf]

So it looks like it comes down to choosing between two evils:

1. Stick with W7 and be faced with eternally long update times. This is exactly the sitch I am currently in because vapoursynth refuses to work on my clean install

According to the URL below, the latest Vapoursynth(s) require only the IE11 mandatory updates:

http://www.vapoursynth.com/2015/09/windows-update-use-it/

After doing a clean install of Windows 7, install the newest .NET Framework 4.x.x, then Internet Explorer 11, and then, turn off the automagic updates forever

Many, many thanks El Heggunte. I will give it a try tonight.

UPDATE:
Haha, turns out W7 SP1 is bundled with IE8. No matter, I haven't used IE in like over a decade anyway. So, I downloaded IE11 and tried to install it only to be told I couldn't proceed unless I installed the following updates first:

KB2729094
KB2731771
KB2533623
KB2670838
KB2786081
KB2834140

Downloading was the easy part. After launching the first one, I was greeted with the following:



Well, 15 minutes later it is still cycling the green bar. Forget this. I don't have time for this. And MS wonders why we never update our 'puters.

[Gurd99]

So it looks like it comes down to choosing between two evils:

1. Stick with W7 and be faced with eternally long update times. This is exactly the sitch I am currently in because vapoursynth refuses to work on my clean install:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/sticking-with-windows-7-the-forecast-calls-for-pain/
The most salient quote from the link above: "I wouldn't be surprised if the update count is up over 350 by then, with a clean install taking days."

2. Upgrade to W10 and be forced into constant updates against your will.


...I suppose all this can be made moot by just unplugging your video editing machine from the web and ditching freeware forever (yes, I am looking at you, FM).

What exactly are in those updates from after a clean install? I have never ever once updated anything to my knowledge on XP (back in the day) & Vista ultimate with SP2. I just use an AV & stay away from "bad" sites. The site author says you have to be crazy to connect to the net without them, I think with all the security you can still ruin your windows from some bad sites & cracks. Personally I keep my good machine off the net as much as possible unless updates to things like anydvd or AV & use a laptop for surfing the web.

Few days of updating is paradise compared to the way 10 behaves.

[SameSelf]

What exactly are in those updates from after a clean install? I have never ever once updated anything to my knowledge on XP (back in the day) & Vista ultimate with SP2. I just use an AV & stay away from "bad" sites. The site author says you have to be crazy to connect to the net without them, I think with all the security you can still ruin your windows from some bad sites & cracks. Personally I keep my good machine off the net as much as possible unless updates to things like anydvd or AV & use a laptop for surfing the web.

Few days of updating is paradise compared to the way 10 behaves.

LOL! How should I know what's in the updates???? I never cared until now. I didn't even know my IE was 3 versions out of date. This was never an issue for me until I tried to run vapoursynth which uses the sorry excuse of the programming language known as Python (you should see how it handles arrays, simply atrocious).

I have learned over time there are two types of people in the world. People who get viruses, and people who don't. Which group you fall into has nothing to do with whether you have the latest updates to Windows. Rather it is a function of your behavior. If you are in the group that doesn't get viruses, then the good news is you don't need to worry about having the latest updates or even an AV. Did I mention that I haven't run an AV on my PC's in over ten years?

But many, many people attract malware like flies on dung. The result is a giant botnet that is used for all kinds of malicious activity (viruses are so last century). Microsoft has taken it upon themselves to solve this problem by forcing everyone to update W10 installs. As a result, the good eggs are lumped into the rest of humanity. Ahh! Think of the children! But I don't blame Microsoft. They had to do something. The future of the PC as we know it is seriously threatened. Think of the future!

At some point, I will probably spend the two or three days needed to build an clean, but "updated", W7 install. I just don't have time for that right now. And it angers me that I have to do this period.

[El Heggunte]

UPDATE:
Haha, turns out W7 SP1 is bundled with IE8. No matter, I haven't used IE in like over a decade anyway. So, I downloaded IE11 and tried to install it only to be told I couldn't proceed unless I installed the following updates first:

KB2729094
KB2731771
KB2533623
KB2670838
KB2786081
KB2834140

Downloading was the easy part. After launching the first one, I was greeted with the following:


[Attachment 37473 - Click to enlarge]

Well, 15 minutes later it is still cycling the green bar. Forget this. I don't have time for this. And MS wonders why we never update our 'puters.

Well, I installed those dämn updates before installing IE11. And IIRC, I disabled the network card before running the IE11 installer, just to be on the safe side... and yes, it worked.

I don't use IE11 either, but considering that its DLLs are part of the operating system itself, I think the selective "upgrade" doesn't hurt

[Gurd99]

Probably a silly Q, but if your on win7 SP1 & get those huge upgrades will that include updating to Windows 10? Or is the 10 upgrade clearly separate.

[Gurd99]

On a laptop with win10, the load up times from turn on are usually inconsistent, sometimes quick, alot of times slow with the blue screen & circle animation of dots staying there for ages. Dunno if it's the laptop really, but I think it's just another reason to stay away from 10.

[Bernix]

I have rebuilt my computer excepting HDD and win 10 survived. Only think I have to do is retype serial number again for original 8.1. So it saved me lot of work. I dont know if any other windows do the same. So little + for win 10

[MaverickTse]

No one posted the news yet so here it goes:
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/microsoft-draws-flak-for-pushing-window...0-on-pc-users/

MS got sued and fined for failed forceful win10 upgrade.

[SameSelf]

I saw that headline. Honestly it looked like clickbait, so I didn't bother. I could care less about the travails of the computer illiterate. I went through the admittedly painful process of downloading W10 plus installing and registering it. Made an image. Then quickly reloaded my W7 image. So I at least took advantage of the free upgrade while it lasts.

You have been warned. You have until July 28, 2016 to take advantage of the free upgrade. Tick tock tick tock.

[Gregg]

As I already mentioned in a previous post you can switch automatic updates off and still keep your Windows updated offline without waiting for long hours or days. The updates pushing W10 are excluded from the list and you can also choose what to upgrade. I'm using this site and never had a problem:

http://www.wsusoffline.net/

[Seeker47]

As I already mentioned in a previous post you can switch automatic updates off and still keep your Windows updated offline without waiting for long hours or days. The updates pushing W10 are excluded from the list and you can also choose what to upgrade. I'm using this site and never had a problem:

http://www.wsusoffline.net/

Always great to learn about something like this, but I believe that MS has totally clobbered similar sites / projects in the past. There was Autopatcher_something, a once very popular one called Windiz_something (sorry, I'm blanking on the names just now . . . ), and this one

http://www.softwarepatch.com/

which looks like it has not been updated in years -- a ghost town of a site.

I think the MS legal dept. hammered all of these into oblivion. Nevertheless (at least up through Win-8) I thought there were MS-sanctioned pages where IT Dept. guys could go to pick up individual KBs, or bunches of them, for offline application later ?

[joecass]

I had upgraded one of my (older) Win 7 laptops to Win 10 late last year, just to see how well 10 works. Really didn't care for it much. The most annoying thing is that upon first booting up, the icon shows no connection to the Internet. If I do a re-boot, then it connects automatically like it should. A minor inconvenience maybe, but still quite annoying. I have a slew of machines running mostly Win 7 Ultimate, since the "deadline" for the free Win 10 upgrade was upcoming, I decided to install the free upgrade on an older Lenovo Win 7 desktop. The whole process took about four hours, between downloading and installation. Surprisingly, almost all my old programs were intact except for CCleaner, Win 10 decided to remove it. What's bothering me now is.... after the upgrade I disabled just about everything that Microsoft installed without my permission. Just basic Privacy settings, and that's it. But today when I booted the Lenovo, the hard drive light was on continuously for about half an hour. On all my desktops and laptops I still use the old Vista & 7 -style Gadgets showing CPU and memory usage. They just kept chugging along like crazy, this is something I believe will eventually wear out the hardware. It was bad enough spending hours on end with Windows Updates on earlier operating systems for the last year or so since the free Win 10 upgrade announcement.
On the laptop, before I do anything, I check for Win 10 updates just to get it out of the way. Control over how updates are delivered is available, but being lazy, I just don't want to be bothered with this nonsense. Today with the Lenovo, this really pissed me off, whatever the hell it was doing took forever. Windows USED TO BE a simple O.S., like with XP, "updates are available" and that was it. After re-booting the Lenovo desktop, now it's like taking forever to load this new O.S. This is progress ?? For comparison purposes, any one of my Win 7 laptops boot up in about 30 seconds. On a few of them I've disabled Windows Updates entirely along with Windows Defender and Indexing, since these programs seem to put an unnecessary strain on the electronics. Don't use any anti-virus software at all, haven't gotten a virus in years. I've read so many reviews and comments about Windows 10 all over the Internet, both pro and con, I really don't see any advantage using Win 10 over 7 or 8.1. But, sooner or later Microsoft will end the support cycle like they did with XP.... so, just to be on the safe side, I used their Win 10 "Media Creation Tool" to download last year's Win 10 Pro.iso, in case I need upgrade discs for the future. This option wasn't offered when I upgraded the Lenovo this week, I had it stored on one of my laptops for the specific purpose of making discs.
On last year's old HP laptop running 7, the upgrade turned into a nightmare, so I did a 'clean install' of 10 Pro, downloaded and installed all the original Vista drivers using Compatibilty Mode, and got it working properly. But it's STILL slower than when it was running 7 Ultimate. The boot process seems very inconsistent in that one day it will boot quickly and also shut down promptly, then the next day it's all sluggish. Does anyone else feel the way I do ?

[gll99]

Back in post #279 I said that I used my license to update my Win8 pro to Win10 pro on an old E8400 PC. Now I can roll back to Win8 pro or re-install Win10 pro anytime on this PC. If I remove it from the old PC although I won't get Win10 back on different hardware I can install the Win8 Pro anywhere since that license although it is OEM functions like a retail version. MS never sold retail discs of that version and provided a special agreement for it. As I said previously I wanted to practice before upgrading my wife's laptop which was originally win8 home and had been updated to win 8.1 home but was way behind in updates. In fact it had failed it's last update of 20 or 30 many times and Windows 8.1 would then remove them all taking many hours to do this. I got so fed up I just stopped the updates completely.

Anyway I finally used the upgrade disc from iso just as in post #279 and did the upgrade a few weeks ago. It was simple and straight forward. I started Win 8.1 on the laptop, turned updates back on but stopped any Win 8.1 updates when I was prompted by a popup since they are not needed. Just like when I updated the Win8 pro PC I selected yes to allowing Win10 Updates and everything works. The steps and cautions are in post #279 so won't repeat them.

I suggest using a disc burned from iso if possible, connecting via Ethernet cable if possible rather than wireless for needed updates during the install and plugging in the laptop so the battery doesn't run down.

As for me for what I do, my old XP or Win7 is fine for me but I see no reason why someone with a win8 or win8.1 volume license who prefers the desktop look wouldn't move to Win10, it is improved over those 2.