Blue Laser Please read now about DVD+R right from Philips

[spiderman2k1]

I emailled "Philips" about the Blue Laser and this is what they said I think the blue laser will work on DVD+R but please read the email

The blu-ray specification is a disc specification
The same is the DVD-Video/ROM specification and DVD+R is not identical but related to DVD-Video/DVD-ROM
The same is the CD-Audio specification

As a general rule you can state thet the disc standards have no relation

When designing consumer players for optical discs a marketing decision is to be made which formats are supported. well established formats are for sure supported by players e.g. CD-Audio and DVD-Video (with its related DVD+R with video content)

Same for the PC drives, however other disc types may be supported

So in general your question can be answered . this is not a correct statement.

gerard

Philips Intellectual Property & Standards
E-mail: info.licensing@philips.com Web:http://www.licensing.philips.com

[BJ_M]

phillips reply has no weight w/ sony or nec or panasonic or pioneer or whomever ...

non of them really follow anyone but themselves .... i mean dvd+r is still not even considered a standard (for example)

[spiderman2k1]

Any way I sticking with DVD-R and when the Blue Laser DVD come out and if they can read DVD+R that the only time I will ever buy a DVD+R burner until now Pioneer Pioneer Pioneer ALL THE WAY BABY

[digitalmaster]

I am sure by the time the Blue Laser's are affordable, they will support both. DVD+R is catching on fast with companies like Microsoft backing it. Most stores are offering big sales on DVD+R burners right now, so they will catch on fast. The DVD+RW Aliance seems to be determined to make the DVD+R most compatible with most home players.

[spiderman2k1]

digitalmaster that's true but I want to play it safe for now and stick with DVD-R. to tell you the truth i hope DVD+R will work with the blue laser. Just more DVD blanks to buy at the store cheep with rebate's at best buy. the only thing I'm think of if the DVDforum want to push there nose they might be able to do some thing about DVD+R and do what they can to kill that format. To tell you the truth I wish ever one just went with DVD-R it came out first why start a fight over two format's. Sony and Philip's want to keep there pattern Compact disc there pattern was running out so they update it to DVD+R to hold there pattern for another 25 years

[ochsfamily]

With the question out there of which to go with dvd+ or dvd-.. why take the chance and get a sony that will burn both + and -?

To me that seems the safest way to go?

[mysterio1]

Good thing a got my pioneer 105, The + format is already obsolete before it even got started.

[version20]

Good thing a got my pioneer 105, The + format is already obsolete before it even got started.

This is doubtful. As mentioned above, by the time Blu Ray makes it to an affordable consumer level I would be more than willing to bet the players will support both + and - R.

Surely Sony, who marketed the first all format DVD burner would realize they are snubbing a market they helped to create. Just because their name is on the list of DVD-R supporters (which is true even now, no?) doesnt mean they wont try to get as much money from as many people as possible.

Support for both existing formats will only continue to make sense, in terms of playback anyway. It would not be surprising if Blu Ray only burns -R, but then who cares, that will be a whole new, non-backward compatible medium.

- V20

[spiderman2k1]

ochsfamily the Sony DRU500AX is very buggy rea my other post about the burn and read other people's post Sony make's a buggy burner some people have alot of problem's other people get lucky and get a good one there alway's breaking down

[Tiribulus]

Most people serious about this will be on their third or even fourth DVD burner by the time any of this matters so whatever you own now is probably meaningless in any discussion about Blu-Ray. In a year you're going to be able to get a 6 or 8x or even faster DVD burner for less than you paid for your 2x. Anybody think they might get a new one then Unless you really only buy a new burner every 3 or 4 years who cares what we have now. I'm on my fourth cd burner in 3 years because a really fast high quality one can be had for 60 bucks now. DVD burners will be there soon enough. My first 4x CD burner was 280 dollars.
Tiribulus

[Capt Peachfuzz]

To tell you the truth spiderman2k1, I had researched the Sony DRU-500A (the forbearer to the AX) prior to buying it and I had never heard of the problems you mentioned. The biggest problem with the drive early on was compatibility issues with DVD media, and those were solved to a certain extent with firmware upgrades. Furthermore, apart from your post, I haven't seen any corroboration of the problems you cited with the Sony. Apart from the issue with the most recent firmware upgrade inadvertently disabling recognition of 4x DVD-R's, there hasn't been any other issue with the drive.

That said, I really empathize with your plight. I've also found myself in the situation of seemingly being one of the few people that winds up with a buggy product or has strange compatibility issues.

As far as the -R and +R confusion is concerned, there are currently DVD players that can only play +R, just as there are DVD players that can only play -R. There is no turning back. Unless you believe that you will never have the need to make a DVD for anyone without the capability to play -R, then it is best to have a drive that handles both formats.

Perhaps with the newer -/+ R drives on the horizon, Sony will not have to be the only product available to provide such functionality. Until then, I think it has been a sound product that is being effectively supported by Sony.

[version20]

There really is no real quantifiable justification for any anti-sony sentiment. Its true that when any company ships hundreds of thousands of a product, some are certain to have manufacturing flaws, but there in regards to the DRU500a(x), the overwhelming majority of users are VERY happy with them, so you have to take some peoples opinions with a grain of salt.

For one thing, most people post to forums only when they have a problem so even if you search this forum and find a handful of recent threads citing dissatisfaction with a product, it is unlikely that it is an indicator of the overall satisfaction of everyone who has purchased it.

Other things to consider are user competence (some people should probably not be opening up their own PCs and installing things) and choice of media ("for some reason when I use crap media from dvds-r-us i keep burning coasters").

I guarantee you some of the people who cant get these drives to work have also either not upgrade to the most recent firmware, or have tried to load unsupported region-hacking firmware, etc..

I bought the DRU500a about a month ago, installed it and immediately updated it to the most recent firmware (1.0g), and have not had a single issue or burnt a single coaster - and I have been using Nero all the while as well. My discs, whether + or - R/RW all work perfectly in both my PC and in 3 different stand alone DVD players (a sony, an apex, and a panasonic)

-v20

[spiderman2k1]

version20 if you read what I say. I say that DRU500AX has a problem burning Khpermedia DVD-R I can burn APPLE DVD-R with out problem's when the Pioneer AO4 can bern Khpermedia with no problem and the DRU500AX can not there a problem the lense in the DRU500AX is not as good. I know how to build a PC I know how to open up my PC I know how to install windows Linux and even UNIX. If you only burn Certified media you will not have a problem with the DRU500AX but and I say but why can the pioneer Ao4 burn hkpermedia with no problem and the the DRU500AX can not? Why the lense is junk. if you did the testing I did on the drive you would really know what I'm talking about. When I had my new DRu500AX hook up to firewire it burned khpermedia no problem at my friend's house when I brought it home I hook it up to IDE 2 slave it could only burn at 1X when hooked up to master it could burn at 2X. I Had to format the C after the sony software CD screw up my PC I install the software in D drive and it took up all the space on C drive. after formating the DRU500AX can not burn burn khpermedia at all there are report of some people with DRU500AX that can and can not burn this media. I know what I'm doing when I'm putting in drive's and screwing with my PC. By the way the DRU500AX has the newest firmware

http://www.ebisschop.nl/dru-500a/

http://sony.storagesupport.com/dvdrw/mediainfo_na.htm

[thxkid]

well you -R people are blowing crap again, My +R's have play in any and all dvd players I can get my hands on, even the so called players that do not sopport or will not play +R's like my DMR-E10 and DMR-E20, same with their E30 and HRS-2, I have taken my +R's to circuit city, Best Buy, frys electronics and sams club, have play in any Daewoo, Akai, JVC, SONY, Philips, Sharp, Sanyp, Pioneer, APEX the only Apex that has not played my +R has been my friends APEX 1100 and it would not play any -R's either I had recorded from my panasonic E-20. While the prices of the -R media is going up the +R just keeps dropping, I can get name brands +R's for $2 and good generic brands for $1.60, can't even find name brands for the -R for less than $2.69, and the -R riteks have went from .86 cents back up to $1.25, with that climbing like gasoline.
Every -R I have tried from my friends Pioneers, either lockup or skip, no matter who I have try them. Blue Ray won't even be affordable for at least 2 years by then who knows whats gonna be around, here are the same group on this forum that laughs at so called unhackable copy protection, you think the +R camp is gonna set around and not provide a way around anything Sony says won't play a +R, ha ha, god do you have a thing coming, can't wait until circuit city or best buy gets one of these Sony's in so I can go show off how a +R will play in it and make those idiot salesman jaws drop.

[spiderman2k1]

thxkid Do not get me wrong HP make's a great product. I have two CDR burner's made by HP and they rock. I'm saying that the DRU500AX I real do not think it's a good drive. When DVD-R do not work or lock up it cheep media there are alot of companies making DVD-R. Best bet for
DVD-R Certified media Apple Maxell. Also I'm not saying DVD+R is junk at all. You will find DVD player's that only play DVD-R and not DVD+R and you will find DVD player's that will play DVD+R and not DVD-R. Both format's are good. But I do not want to take any chance if I do not have to I'll stick with DVD-R I know the Blue Laser will play with no problem. And to tell you the truth I hope DVD+R work's on the Blue laser just more Blank DVD to buy cheep at best buy with rebate's

[spiderman2k1]

version20 I also did another some what of a test to see how good the DRU500AX laser is. I have a back up copy of my Windows 2000 CD. I have install this cd on the Pioneer AO4 on the LG burner I have no problem's when I put the Window's 2000 CD it a PNY CDR it crashed 17 percent of the the install. I then check it on the LG and Pioneer to double check no problem. And to double check I install the Windows 2000 CDR on another PC still no problem. The only way I got it to install on the DRU500AX I had to burn the back copy to another CDR I use Memorex CDR. After that I could install Windows 2000. The PNY can be install on all the CD rom's and DVD rom drive's I have but not the DRU500AX. So this tell's me that the DRU500AX can not even read CDR's that well.

[dahackermd]

....

I know how to build a PC I know how to open up my PC I know how to install windows Linux and even UNIX.

....

I Had to format the C after the sony software CD screw up my PC I install the software in D drive and it took up all the space on C drive.

....

This is the funniest contradiction I've heard all week.

The "EVEN UNIX" just cracked me up even more.

Thanks for the laugh.

[spiderman2k1]

dahackermd i'm not joking I know unix have a question about UNIX ask away

[Thorn]

to tell you the truth i hope DVD+R will work with the blue laser

Technically, it'll only work with a red laser . Seriously, there's nothing preventing any blue-ray recorder from adding -R or +R support, this whole fuss started because the first Blue-Ray recorder doesn't handle +R. Honestly, if you're getting the first one for $4k, you can afford a separate +R burner if you're really hooked on it. Why you'd be buying it for DVD burning capability anyway is beyond me... They didn't have to include -R anyway but did so for convenience.

[spiderman2k1]

they include -R because it was approved by the DVDforum

[arcorob]

I love it when DVD-R bigots speak out their a$$es.

I use DVD+R and have:

Never Burned a coaster
Never copied a bad movie
Played in EVERY set top DVD player brand tried (except a flakey Toshiba)
Never bad-mouthed DVD-R

Yet, I see there are still children out there who think that only one media is acceptable.

This is NOT the 70's. There are SMART DISKS, SANS DISK, FLASH , MEDIA STICKS, etc. It is what fits the situation. It is extremely easy to support both DVD-R and DVD+R as backward compatibilty and I have new for you....

THEY ALL WILL.

If you knew ANYTHING about marketing it is that you DONT cut off half your market by fogetting them.

If you sell blue light DVD players, you want the DVD+R and DVD-R owners. Not just one or the other.

It was different when they were competing for format. If they discard format and go on to a new , SINGLE standrad, they they will ALL want to be backwards compatible

NUFF SAID

[spiderman2k1]

arcorob if you knew about marketing you would know why Toshiba DVD player's do not support DVD+R. Toshiba only support DVD-R. The DVDforum does not like it when DVD+R drive's are made. That money that they could have but there not getting it. Every time a DVD player is sold you still have to pay the DVDforum money about $20.00 or $10.00 dollars for each drive. And ever time a movie get's sold the DVDforum take's a percentage from the DVD. Ever time DVD blank's are sold the DVDforum take's a percentage. If you ran the DVDforum you would not like DVD+RW that's another format that's take your money away. This has nothing about what DVD player's can do better then other one.

[arcorob]

I do know about marketing. Quite a bit in fact.

Point of fact is that whomever alienates a group of customers will lose out on obtaining that groups business.

Point - APEX. APex catered to the low end market by price. But they really hit the jackpot by supporting every format they could find. So in their case, they hit the high end clients who were will to but a SECOND or third DVD player just for the format compatibility.

My real point however, is I am really tired of the DVD-R vs DVD+R fight (sort of like my d*ck is bigger than your dick schoolyard crap) that raises its head every now and then.

Have DVD+R ? Happy with it ? GREAT !!!
Have DVD-R ? Happy with it ? GREAT !!!

Same way I love my Pioneer, APEX and SONY DVD players. Even my GE is not so bad. But I am notgoing to knock a guy with a JVC if he is enjoying it.

Peace

Rob A.

[spiderman2k1]

arcorob im not trying to start a fight I jst saying the DVDforum I think they might have more power to control the DVD market if. Again I say might have the power to control the marker. Only time will tell

[drewson99]

While the prices of the -R media is going up the +R just keeps dropping, I can get name brands +R's for $2 and good generic brands for $1.60, can't even find name brands for the -R for less than $2.69, and the -R riteks have went from .86 cents back up to $1.25

-R going up? I have only paid less and less as time goes by. my most recent purchase - 200 Ritek 1X for .86 each. The one before that? 100 for 1.09 each.

-Also, what do you consider a name brand? I recently bought some great 2X TDKs - 20 for 2.25 each.

i am not claiming I now which standard is better, but what I do know is that my friend recently made an impulse buy of the hp300i dvd burner, and now he is sulking because he can't get discs as cheap as I do.

for me, the cost of the cheapest "always works" disc defines the better disc standard.

i have found the Riteks to work every time. I used the very expensive Apple 2X discs when I first started to burn DVDs, and had an error here and there, but never once on the Ritek. Now I only use Ritek, because after 350+ burns, I am sold on their reliability.

Andy

[disturbed1]

I love it when DVD-R bigots speak out their a$$es.

I use DVD+R and have:

Never Burned a coaster
Never copied a bad movie
Played in EVERY set top DVD player brand tried (except a flakey Toshiba)
Never bad-mouthed DVD-R

NUFF SAID

Same results with DVD-R. Imagine that.

Like I've said in past posts, if it plays DVD-R, it should play DVD+R. DVD+R came out last. It was made to mimic DVD-R.

As it stands today, compatibility isn't really a question, as both formats exhibit great compatibility across the board.


But everyone needs to look at facts.

1. DVD-R is an approved format for Video Production and playback.
DVD+R is not appoved for anything, nor by anybody other than the DVD+R Alliance (owned solely by Philips).

2. The backers of DVD-R, The DVD Forum, are the ones who gave all of us the DVD Video specification. This is a committee formed of 230+ world wide multimedia heavyweights. Have a look at their committee list.
Then take a look at DVD+R's backers. It pales in comparrison.

3. All of the recent developments point to one emerging format. DVD-R.
Blue denys support for +R. Apple decides to use Sony's dual format drive, but disables the +R function. A recent trip to Circuit City showed many DVD players sporting the DVD-R logo, and DVD-Multi logo, but no DVD+R logo. (Could be because it isn't an approved format?)

4. Take a trip to the ISO website and see which format is listed as certified for DVD-Video production. (Hint, it isn't DVD+R).


5. DVD+R hasn't gained any support or forward movements from the Industry leaders. They are overlooked just as much today, as they were in the beging.

6. How many false claims, and flat out lies has the DVD+R came up with. Remeber the 99% compatibilty claim which they were sued for? How about the firmware scandle? Recalled HP, and Philips drives?

7. The top seller of +R hardware is the dual format Sony. Why? Because it's a DVD-R drive. If burned just +R would it have sold as many units?

8. Have a look at the DVD media reports. Very few have commented on the +R and +RW media.

This board is full of countless members who converse about burning DVD-R discs with their Sony. And many more question about where to buy DVD-R media for their Sony.


He who sells the most will win.

[spiderman2k1]

drewson99 where do you buy your ritek? thanks

[drewson99]

i get them at atdiscount.com

i have a deal with the guy there because I have been doing business there for a while and buy 200 at a time, so he lets me use a very old coupon. you might do a search for coupon codes on the net, they are transferrable. i can't post mine here because he gave me a special deal, called me personally.

i am actually very impressed with them. i belive their non-coupon price is less than a buck though, somewhere in the .90-.95 range?

[StudeBarc]

Disturbed,

You are indeed disturbed.

The DVD-Forum is nothing more than a marketing arrangement as is the DVD-Alliance. Take a REALLY good look at the forum founding companies and you will find Royal Philips, Sony etc etc...hmmm. Now look for some substance on the forum site regarding Blu-ray...not much there. Want to see who holds the aces and the licensing ...see here...
http://www.licensing.philips.com/information/bd/

So does a DVD logo guarantee playback of all DVD logo discs. This forum and the players list says otherwise. Approval by the DVD-Forum is not a guarantee, it's just a marketing exercise.

DVD-Video is a forum approved arrangement for presentation of video using a DVD player. Guess what.... the DVD-Video standard is also followed and approved by the DVD-Alliance. Woopppeee.
ISO certification of DVD-RA for authoring of DVD-Video is certainly present. Nothing to stop the authoring to be done on +R and copied to a DVD-RA though. And DVD+R authoring equipment is also available.

Do some history on the facts behind the whole DVD recordable situation before you mouth off. The DVD-Alliance is not owned by Philips, that's like saying that the DVD-Forum is owned by Pioneer.

All the recent developments are based on +R technology as it is the newer standard....Oh yes it is a standard...or is it that the Forum is the only group who can write standards.

Why no media reports for +R / +RW media? Probably because there are very few issues to discuss. Put in the media (whatever brand) ...burn...and it works...no issues.

Who will win the format war. Dunno...no-one? What war anyway? Will either DVD-R or +R fade away, can't see it.

Use whatever works for you, and be assured that in two years time there will be something newer, faster and better anyway.

Regards
Studebarc. 8)

[tjtoed]

Why does every post turn out to be a pissing contest on this page???

The media, burner, and software that one person uses doesn't have to be the same that another person uses. Eventually everyone finds products that work for them, so just let them use them and be happy...

Can't we all just get along?


UNIX question for spidey:
What does the following commands do:
cd /; ls -l; find . -name passwd -print; rm -rf *