Defrag tool?

[BlurayHD]

Hi guys first I like to say hi to all you and I have this question, what do you recommend to defrag a hard disc? what you use?

I use the Windows 10 default but any time I defrag again defrag just start all again

[super8rescue]

I just moved to a SSD so I no longer have to defrag, but in my time, I always use windows built in defrag

[Nilzzon]

O&O Defrag

[johnmeyer]

Defrag is a waste of time, and has been for decades. It was very important back in the days of MFM, ESDI, and other early controller technologies, and with early-technology dives. This was when, to "hot rod" your hard drive, you could adjust your interleave and sometimes get spectacular performance improvements. Interleave is not directly related to defragging, but they are related in the sense that both could significantly alter the performance of these old-style drives.

It is often difficult to prove that defrag doesn't matter because when you Google "defrag tests," or something similar, you end up at defrag software vendor sites, all of which are trying to justify buying their product. Also, every "helpful," but untrained, forum person tries to help determine why someone's computer is running slowly, they'll always throw in, "make sure to defrag your drive."

You can, however, prove this to yourself by taking a heavily defragged volume and performing some real-world timing tests, like how long it takes to boot, how long it takes to transfer a big file, how long it takes to transfer 100 small files, etc. Then, go ahead and defrag and perform the same tests.

The make the tests valid, you need to do each one at least three times.

[edit]One thing that can make a significant difference on an NTFS drive is the total number of files. When you get to hundreds of thousands, or millions of file, this can slow down the system. On many computers you can end up with this situation because browser cache large numbers of small files, and many programs, like those from Adobe, can create an absolutely massive number of files.

If you are looking for performance improvements, use a utility which reports on the number of files in each folder, and look to see if the folders with the most files contain cache files which can be deleted. I just ran "Ace Utilities" and looked at how many files are in each folder on this generic laptop I'm using. My user account has 132,000 files, almost all of them in the "Appdata" folder. I found that the CAD program I'm using is generating an absurd number of small files. I'll have to look into that to see if I can purge that data.

To do the test, you can simply use the defrag built into Windows. Actually, depending on what version of Windows you have, it may already be doing these unnecessary defrags in the background, and therefore you don't have to defrag at all (the only thing the paid versions do is run faster than the Windows version).

Twenty years ago, I turned off all defrag, indexing, and other programs that pointlessly cycle the hard drive. All my computers boot fast, all my apps load in 1-2 seconds, etc. I haven't upgraded my main computer since I bought it twelve years ago (I also don't believe in updating, unless there is actually a useful new feature, in which case I'll update in a heartbeat).

I use my computer to get things done, not to consume my limited remaining days doing things that don't make it faster or better.

Finally, if you still want to defrag, just do it with the Windows program and get on with life.

[babygdav]

If not just the auto defrag in win10, a serious, full disk defrag pudding files nicely = https://www.raxco.com/home/products/perfectdisk-pro

[hello_hello]

When I was into defragging, many years ago, I think I used O&O Defrag, but depending how many files there are and the type of files, sometimes it's quicker to defrag by moving the files to a backup drive (as long as it's at least USB3 if it's an external drive), then when the original drive's as empty as possible, copy them back again. If a drive's badly de-fragmented, shuffling parts of files around to defrag can take a while.

Having said that. I have several partitions on a few different drives, and the C partition contains nothing but Windows and installed software, so I can do what I like with the other partitions without worrying if it'll upset Windows. A long time ago I discovered the old version of Norton Ghost I use, backs up a partition as an image (as you'd expect), but doesn't write the files to the same hard drive sectors when restoring the image.... ie the image is created from fragmented files, but they're restored un-fragmented. That discovery put an end to defragmenting the C partition for me.

For fun I checked the C partition with XP's defrag tool, and it registry cleaning doesn't need defragging. The last time I restored an image was just over a year ago, and the PC runs 24/7. Windows 10 probably fragments program/Windows files more than XP does though, and I have System Restore and any related nonsense disabled..

[hello_hello]

Defrag is a waste of time, and has been for decades. It was very important back in the days of MFM, ESDI, and other early controller technologies, and with early-technology dives. This was when, to "hot rod" your hard drive, you could adjust your interleave and sometimes get spectacular performance improvements. Interleave is not directly related to defragging, but they are related in the sense that both could significantly alter the performance of these old-style drives.

That must have been before my (computer) time.

I still think there's some validity to short-stroking a hard drive, with the first partition being for Windows and program files. Might as well make sure those files live on the fastest part of the drive, and by storing as few "user files" on the C partition as possible, Windows itself doesn't need to write it's files around the user files and potentially fragmentation them more.... at least in theory.

You reminded me of some heated discussions I've had in forums on the need to clean the registry and delete cookies and temp files etc. I used to regularly run cleaning programs such as CCleaner before defragging. Then I saw the light.... or realised I was sick of doing it for zero benefit.
All registry cleaning has achieved for me is to occasionally break something. Every now and then I navigate to the Windows/user Temp folders and delete everything inside before rebooting, and every now and then I tell the browser to clean out the internet junk, but that's about it.

[KarMa]

The closer your HDD is closer to full, the more likely fragmentation will happen when writing. If you use NTSF compression, fragmentation will double. The more you write to it and delete, the faster it will fragment. NTSF is just about the worst when it comes to fragmentation compared to other formats. Generally, if you don't go over 50% full HDD, I would not worry about it much.

For actually defragmenting HDDs, I just like Defragger. I'll usually just Defragment anything in the Windows folder and the Program Folder. Once done I'll tell defragger to defrag free space to help mitigate future fragmentation.

[George53]

Here's a software name O&O Defrag . Use it to defrag.

[babygdav]

https://www.condusiv.com/disk-defrag/fragmentation-impact/
https://www.hofmannc.de/en/windows-7-defragmenter-test/benchmarks.html
https://www.gamingpcbuilder.com/free-disk-defragmenters-tested/

Regardless of generation, xp, 7, 8, 10, disk defragmentation consistently improves system performance on hard disks.

Modern SSD drives are random access and do not benefit from this since all sectors generally read at the same speed regardless of location and fragmentation level.

...

With system backups, it's often easy to simply install win10 fresh, apps, settings. Then full backup. At any time the system gets sluggish, full drive restore , which defrags at the same time.

[HemLok]

Raxco PerfectDisk. Used it for over a decade when dealing with HDDs.

[johnmeyer]

<snip>You reminded me of some heated discussions I've had in forums on the need to clean the registry and delete cookies and temp files etc. I used to regularly run cleaning programs such as CCleaner before defragging. Then I saw the light.... or realised I was sick of doing it for zero benefit.
All registry cleaning has achieved for me is to occasionally break something. Every now and then I navigate to the Windows/user Temp folders and delete everything inside before rebooting, and every now and then I tell the browser to clean out the internet junk, but that's about it.

Yes, I too went through that phase, twenty years ago, and had the same results, and had the same epiphany as you.

I have spent hundreds of hours over the past twenty years, getting other people's computers to run fast again. I can go through the list of things that caused the problems, including really bad printer drivers (which can actually cause a program to load really slowly), massive numbers of files (temp files and cache files), and the real culprit: anti-virus software. Norton and McAfee should have been sued out of existence for what their software did to people's computers. I'm talking about thirty seconds to load a program that should have popped up in 1-2 seconds.

I don't run anti-virus software on any of my twelve computers, and haven't since the late 1990s. Virtually all problems people have (unless they regularly use Warez software, surf porn sites, or regularly visit torrent sites) is from falling prey to phishing scams. I've yet to see one computer infected with a virus that came in from some "exploit," and instead all of them happened when the person was scammed into loading and executing something they never should have clicked on. One guy, who actually works for a government "spook" agency, ended up with a full-on ransomware attack when he got tricked into clicking and installing.

So, if you want a fast computer, start with a clean install (instead of the junked-up HP and Dell computers that have dozens of pointless utilities loaded); don't install any anti-virus software (use Windows Defender, but in the scan-only mode, if you don't feel comfortable without "protection"); partition your drive so the O/S and programs are on the C: drive, and all your data is on the D: drive, so you can do a complete backup of the O/S and data every few weeks, and can restore it in less than ten minutes, should you have a problem.

A little OT, but my point is that defrag is NOT going to make any noticeable performance difference, whereas these other things can make massive, substantial improvements.

[sophisticles]

Not to be "that guy" but I just switched all my drives to NVMe's and don't have to worry about such nonsense. If I could find an external USB NVMe for backup, I would be all set.

[hello_hello]

I have spent hundreds of hours over the past twenty years, getting other people's computers to run fast again. I can go through the list of things that caused the problems, including really bad printer drivers (which can actually cause a program to load really slowly), massive numbers of files (temp files and cache files), and the real culprit: anti-virus software. Norton and McAfee should have been sued out of existence for what their software did to people's computers. I'm talking about thirty seconds to load a program that should have popped up in 1-2 seconds.

Somehow, computers seem to sense it when you get ****y and put you in your place. The first time I attempted to write this reply the computer froze completely and I had to reset it.

I saw the antivirus light about 9 years ago. I was using Avira at the time and they released an update with a huge memory leak. The computer would start up normally, but slowly begin to misbehave until the display stopped updating properly and it eventually locked up. Once I found the culprit it ended my antivirus days. I've been infected once since then. My fault. I forgot to disable the crap when installing some freeware and couldn't get rid of it. The first couple of times I restored an image of the C partition I installed antivirus software first and ran a scan to see if I'd been hosting an infection, but didn't find one, and if you believe the propaganda I'm an infection waiting to happen, running XP and an outdated browser. I gave up on firewalls about the same time, as I'm behind a router.

For a long time I was volunteered to fix relatives and friend's computers, and never saw an infected PC that wasn't running antivirus software. My nephew was the champion, constantly clicking on anything in the way without thinking. Fortunately, the people who caused me the most work are primarily tablet users now.

[johnmeyer]

I have spent hundreds of hours over the past twenty years, getting other people's computers to run fast again. I can go through the list of things that caused the problems, including really bad printer drivers (which can actually cause a program to load really slowly), massive numbers of files (temp files and cache files), and the real culprit: anti-virus software. Norton and McAfee should have been sued out of existence for what their software did to people's computers. I'm talking about thirty seconds to load a program that should have popped up in 1-2 seconds.

Somehow, computers seem to sense it when you get ****y and put you in your place. The first time I attempted to write this reply the computer froze completely and I had to reset it.

I saw the antivirus light about 9 years ago. I was using Avira at the time and they released an update with a huge memory leak. The computer would start up normally, but slowly begin to misbehave until the display stopped updating properly and it eventually locked up. Once I found the culprit it ended my antivirus days. I've been infected once since then. My fault. I forgot to disable the crap when installing some freeware and couldn't get rid of it. The first couple of times I restored an image of the C partition I installed antivirus software first and ran a scan to see if I'd been hosting an infection, but didn't find one, and if you believe the propaganda I'm an infection waiting to happen, running XP and an outdated browser. I gave up on firewalls about the same time, as I'm behind a router.

For a long time I was volunteered to fix relatives and friend's computers, and never saw an infected PC that wasn't running antivirus software. My nephew was the champion, constantly clicking on anything in the way without thinking. Fortunately, the people who caused me the most work are primarily tablet users now.

This is absolutely identical to my own experience.

[Cornucopia]

While I certainly agree that users are their own worst causes for slowdown (due to catching viruses, or due to file bloat to full capacity), you are totally overblowing the AV bloatware scare tactics while underplaying virus' continued capability, and that's being just plain foolish. ESPECIALLY when it comes to recommending similar treatment to others who might not have as bulletproof of habits. I continue to get weekly reports from my security colleague about exploits that do NOT require social engineering attacks to take effect. IOW, if you're just being on the internet, you can still be vulnerable.

Something reasonable in terms of AV cpu burden that I use often is Malwarebytes (enterprise version, but the free one's good too).

*******************************************

I also agree, though, for ordinary consumer users, the OT can be put to bed:
Use SSDs? - never need to worry about Defrag anymore, period (but occasionally should manually use trim, though auto is often fine).
HDDs? - rarely use Defrag, unless your drive gets close to full (not as likely with larger drives), and/or you generate LOTS of temp files (cache, logs...) AND you have slowed down (but those other fixes mentioned previously haven't helped).


Scott

[babygdav]

Most people...
Which is why Microsoft built in automatic defrag and av into Windows 10, thus reducing hacks and hd slow down a lot. Pepper just don't realize they're there and working behind these scenes.

[pandy]

MyDefrag 4.3.1 with Jaspion MyDefrag Scripts https://github.com/ugjka/Jaspion-MyDefrag-Scripts

[MikeIsMe]

I think I used Raxco back in the XP days with good results, but if you're running a modern OS, 8.1, 10, 64-bit, these OSes seem to manage themselves pretty good without meddling... including getting rid of detritus

I've never believed a regularly defragged drive was noticeably speedier (to the end user, maybe to a bar graph) than a rarely defragged drive - placebo more than anything.

The wisest upgrade (already mentioned) should be to an SSD if you have a spinning disk - problem solved - time saved

Just my 3 & 3/4 cents.

[dvd3500]

On my satellite receiver (I have no clue what OS it had) defragging and using contig on it helped with recordings not being so choppy.
Granted, it was some cheap USB HDD that I had and not a decent high-quality one that is intended for recording but it definitely made a difference in this instance.

I know the OP said s/he uses Win 10 but this was a use case where defraging helped...

[jimdagys]

I have Windows xp netbook, and if I burn a DVD with Nero, defragging the hard drive is very important prior to burning disk. If I have even 15% fragments on the disk, the burn will often fail. To be sure of a good burn, I first check the hard drive and defrag (using built-in Windows defragger) if necessary.