Home Movie Conversion

[mkd8919]

This is my first post here, so I'm hoping this is in the right place! I wasn't sure if I should post here or in the camcorder section.

My parents came to me recently concerned about our old home movies. They heard that the tapes will start to degrade and want to get them digitized. They don’t want DVDs, they are wanting video files that can be played on a PC, on a TV, or possibly uploaded to youtube. I offered to take care of it, whether I send them off or do it myself. From what they’ve given me so far it looks like they have:

Less than 10 Full Size VHS Tapes
Less than 10 Hi-8 Tapes

We no longer have the full size VHS tape camera. They did give me the Hi-8 camera.

Here’s my current equipment:

Sony SLV-595hf VCR
JVC SR-VS30 S-VHS/ Pro-DV Recorder
Pioneer SC-25
JVC Hi-8 Camera - unsure of model. No DV out.
Older Laptop with 4 pin firewire
Newer desktop, no firewire, up to USB-3.1

I’m looking for some advice on the best way to move forward with this, starting with equipment. I have been able to connect the JVC SR-VS30 VCR to my laptop using firewire, and can capture VHS through the DV output. As of now I have not been able to capture from the input ports (RCA / S-Video). The instruction manual does not have much info about connecting the deck to a PC. I’m thinking at this point I will need a different way to digitize the Hi-8 tapes. I’ve looked into it a bit and it sounds like there were some Sony Digital8 cameras that could do analog to digital passthrough using firewire. I’m wondering if it would be better to purchase one of those cameras, or to purchase some sort of USB capture device. Most guides I’ve read said that the camera that was used to do the recording is always the best device to capture from, but I was wondering if that is the case with Hi-8.

I’m thinking the best course forward would be to purchase a capture card. Right now I am limited to capturing VHS only from the JVC, and no way to capture Hi-8. With a capture card I could try my other VCR and capture right from the JVC Hi-8 Camera. I am unsure of which capture card to buy however. My SC-25 has a hardware upscaler / deinterlacer (I think using an Anchor Bay abt1015 chip.) I’m wondering if it would be worth the extra cost to purchase a capture card that can handle HD input, and use the SC-25 to deinterlace / upscale, or just a SD capture card and deinterlace in software or not deinterlace at all.

Any ideas? Since this is less than 20 tapes, budget wise I’d like to spend $100 or less, but I’d be will to pay more if I am convinced it’s worth it in the long run. I’m not looking to get the best quality possible, I’m hoping to get the best quality with what I have. I am still open to sending them somewhere to get them converted if that is a better and cheaper option. However if this works out I feel like I could get requests from other family members, so it may be worth it to do it myself in the long run.

Summary: I'm converting some home movie VHS and Hi-8 tapes. Should I get a capture card or pick up a Digital8 camera? If I get a capture card, which pieces of my equipment should I use?

[usually_quiet]

I downloaded the PDF version of the JVC SR-VS30U's manual from http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/inst_man.jsp?feature_id=11&model_id=MDL101333. Page 37 indicates that the JVC SR-VS30U can record from its incoming analog connections (L-1, L-2) to a DV casette. If you can obtain a blank DV cassette, you could try doing that, and then play the tape in order to capture DV on the laptop using firewire. DV cassettes can still be purchased and are not expensive. I have no idea what the quality will be like, but it won't cost much to find out.

[ackboo]

Also, the built-in digital video converter of this receiver makes both de-interlacing and up-scaling possible, and analog video signals being input are converted and output as digital video signals at the HDMI terminal

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/SC-25_OperatingInstructions0421.pdf

An hdmi to usb capture card is an option, you could connect the vcr and camcorder to your SC-25 and capture the hdmi output. Output and capture at 480i.
Someone tested the Startech usb3hdcap here. It could allow you to capture both sources lossless, however this particular card costs 200$ and there is a learning curve.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/369761-Startech-USB3HDCAP-opinions
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376945-Conventional-analog-capture-workflow-vs-alte...ods-comparison

For analog tapes you should capture interlaced and at SD resolutions. DV does that but can be noisy. And NTSC DV is lower quality than PAL DV.

A Digital8 camcorder should give you good results easily but will cost you more than the card. Not all Digital8 camcorder can convert analog tapes.

In any case you should keep the DV or lossless files as archives and use QTGMC to deinterlace and denoise when outputing to your delivery format. When uploading to youtube it is best to deinterlace first. Since you already have some DV files you could test some postprocessing options and decide if that quality is enough for your needs. Using a DV tape is also a good option if you don't want to get stuck with useless hardware.

In the end it depends on how much time and money you want to invest. Digital8/VHStoDV is easy and good enough for most people, lossless capture through hdmi it best (only if you put time and effort in postprocessing). Compare with the cost of a good pro before investing. And ask for the raw files, to not get stuck with a delivery format.

I'm not an expert, use at your own risks.

[dellsam34]

If you are ok with your DV captures for VHS and you want to go that route you can do that as well with the Hi8 tapes no need to buy anymore equipment. Using the Hi8 camcorder that your parents provided, You need one S-Video cable for video and one Dual RCA cable for Audio, The shorter the cables the better and double shielded cables are the best, Hookup the camcorder to the S-VHS/DV VCR's S-Video and RCA inputs and select the appropriate input in the VCR's menu, The VCR should route that input to the firewire port and you should be able to capture the Hi8 tape thru your VCR's DV port.
And by the way the best DV capture software is WinDV

[mkd8919]

Hello Everyone! Thank you for all the suggestions so far. I'm going to go point by point because I've got some questions.

If you can obtain a blank DV cassette, you could try doing that, and then play the tape in order to capture DV on the laptop using firewire.

For the price, I don't see any reason not to try this. My only qualm with this method would be having to capture everything twice, and doubling my time. Do you think there would be any quality loss transferring twice like that?

An hdmi to usb capture card is an option, you could connect the vcr and camcorder to your SC-25 and capture the hdmi output. Output and capture at 480i.
Someone tested the Startech usb3hdcap here. It could allow you to capture both sources lossless, however this particular card costs 200$ and there is a learning curve.

If I'm understanding this, the reasoning for running through the Sc-25 would be to gain an HDMI source, and then capture in a lossless resolution correct? I was thinking outputting from the SC-25 at 480p, so I'd be using it to deinterlace. Regardless, $200 is out of my price range for this project. I believe it will upscale and display out of the component ports, if that is an option.

A Digital8 camcorder should give you good results easily but will cost you more than the card.

Really? I been looking around and they seem to go really cheap. This one seems to do passthrough and sold for $7.

Compare with the cost of a good pro before investing. And ask for the raw files, to not get stuck with a delivery format.

Any recommendations? I've done a bit of searching, but I can't seem to find anyone who will provide files instead of a DVD for a reasonable price.

Hookup the camcorder to the S-VHS/DV VCR's S-Video and RCA inputs and select the appropriate input in the VCR's menu, The VCR should route that input to the firewire port and you should be able to capture the Hi8 tape thru your VCR's DV port.

Unfortunately I have not been able to get this to work with my deck. I do not have the factory remote however so I'm going to try to track one down and see if that will help. From what I've read though, the deck only passes DV or VHS playback out of the DV port.

For analog tapes you should capture interlaced and at SD resolutions. DV does that but can be noisy. And NTSC DV is lower quality than PAL DV.

I think this hits closest to what I am wondering about. Is there an advantage to using a capture card over DV playback, or vice versa? Or does it totally depend on the hardware you are using?

[usually_quiet]

Hello Everyone! Thank you for all the suggestions so far. I'm going to go point by point because I've got some questions.

If you can obtain a blank DV cassette, you could try doing that, and then play the tape in order to capture DV on the laptop using firewire.

For the price, I don't see any reason not to try this. My only qualm with this method would be having to capture everything twice, and doubling my time. Do you think there would be any quality loss transferring twice like that?

There will be some quality loss when capturing the analog audio and video signals from the Hi-8 camcorder as DV with the JVC SR-VS30U. There is no way to avoid that when digitizing analog video and audio. However when you play the DV tape with the JVC SR-VS30U and record the resulting signal on the laptop via Firewire, the file recorded on the laptop will be an exact copy of what is on the tape, with no loss in quality. To be precise, you'll be transferring data from the DV tape, not capturing again.

[dellsam34]

Unfortunately I have not been able to get this to work with my deck. I do not have the factory remote however so I'm going to try to track one down and see if that will help. From what I've read though, the deck only passes DV or VHS playback out of the DV port.[/B]

For copy protection purposes this option may not be available on your VCR, But you can still try, If you haven't done so hookup the VCR to the S-Video input of the TV using a S-Video cable from the S-Video output of the VCR, Hookup the Hi8 camcorder to one of the two S-Video inputs using another S-Video cable, Now go to the VCR menu and select the right S-Video input for the camcorder until you see the signal on the TV from your Hi8 camcorder, On the other hand hookup your iLink cable ends to both the VCR and computer, once the VCR is recognized by the computer start WinDV and select the VCR name from the list, at that point push DV button on the VCR, If the VCR allows this option you should be able to see the signal coming from the S-Video input of the VCR in WinDV screen in your computer, If not you will have to use DV tapes to record from S-VHS bay and then just transfer the DV data to the computer, It will be one time loss only from VHS to DV.

[ackboo]

If I'm understanding this, the reasoning for running through the Sc-25 would be to gain an HDMI source, and then capture in a lossless resolution correct? I was thinking outputting from the SC-25 at 480p, so I'd be using it to deinterlace. Regardless, $200 is out of my price range for this project. I believe it will upscale and display out of the component ports, if that is an option.

The resolution is 480i, lossless means a 4:2:2 capture (chroma subsampling, NTSC DV is 4:1:1), interlaced, using a keyframe only codec for easy editing. The idea is to keep all the information present in the source and to do no processing susceptible of degrading the source. Since the SC-25 can digitize the signal I hope that it could act as a line-TBC, or at least stabilize the signal. I didn't find much info in the manual, a more knowledgeable member might help. You can test the capabilities by connecting the VCR directly to your TV and then through the SC-25 with hdmi and analog output. See if the image is better or worse. Deinterlacing that way is not a good idea. Always capture interlaced and at SD resolution (720x480) and keep the masters interlaced, if you need to deinterlace use QTGMC during postprocessing.

Really? I been looking around and they seem to go really cheap. This one seems to do passthrough and sold for $7.

The DCR-TRV38 is a miniDV camcorder, Digital8 is different and can play your tapes directly (could be cheaper in america). But a miniDV camcorder with passthrough is another option.

Any recommendations? I've done a bit of searching, but I can't seem to find anyone who will provide files instead of a DVD for a reasonable price.

I chose to do it myself, maybe someone else can chime in. You should probably drop them an email to find out.

I think this hits closest to what I am wondering about. Is there an advantage to using a capture card over DV playback, or vice versa? Or does it totally depend on the hardware you are using?

Capturing lossless with a good capture chain will give you better quality. But only if you are willing to spend time learning how to capture and do the postprocessing. DV can be good enough (depending on the quality of your hardware), see here for a comparison.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376934-Requesting-Feedback-on-3-Hi8-Video-Capture-Samples

You can also take a look here
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video.htm

[mkd8919]

Well it seems I've lucked out. I'm including this part mostly for anyone who stumbles on this in the future. I picked up some MiniDV tapes at Walmart. (Sidebar: This was an adventure on it's own. I checked Walmart.com to make sure they had MiniDV tapes in stock. They had a 3-pack available for same day pickup at one of my local Walmarts for $8.50. I went to the store and it was priced at $16.99! I talked with a manager and they said they would do a price match at the register. I'm glad I looked online!) I got home, hooked the camera up with s-video, but I did not get a display. I went through the manual and found you have to choose between video / s-video for the inputs. I thought I was at a dead end since I do not have the remote, but I remembered the SC-25 remote works as a universal remote. I was able to program it to JVC and get into the menu, and switch it to S-video. I tried a recording and.... I had black bars through the screen, and "Use Cleaning Cassette" appeared. I have only used the DV side once before, and I'm wondering if the tape I'm using is a different brand and caused an issue. I ordered a cleaning cassette in case I need to use it again. However, I noticed that the s-video signal was being output through DV! It seems the JVC SR-VS30U will do analog passthrough, using the rear (L1) s-video input, as long as you set the input to "s-video" in the menu.

Being able to access the menu has added a couple more questions. I’m looking at the available menu options here: http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/PRODV/manual/VS30U_4.pdf. The settings I am wondering about are:

Digital TBC / NR
Video Stabilizer
Digital R3

Would I generally want all of these on? I realize this only affects VHS playback.

Now that I can capture from s-video, I think I am set equipment / capture wise. I've done a few VHS captures, and one from the S-video, and they look good. Now I’m looking for a workflow going forward. The two things I’d like to do are:

1. Split up the original .avi files, without any other processing. There are some segments that are not needed so I do not plan on keeping those. The rest of the footage I plan on keeping the DV capture for archival purposes.

2. Process the files to give to my parents. The captures seem very good in my opinion, so I don’t think there is a lot to do editing wise. Mainly I’d like to deinterlace and do anything you would normally need to to VHS footage, and then compress them to save storage space. I’m also planning on uploaded these to Youtube so I’d like to get more info on processing for that.

Is there any good guides for general AVI editing and VHS capture post-processing, or should I start a new thread? I’ve found some guides but they seem to be more focused on restoring or correcting footage, and don't deal with DV captures.

Thanks again for all the help!

[ackboo]

Digital TBC / NR Video Stabilizer Digital R3
Would I generally want all of these on? I realize this only affects VHS playback.

This should cover it, usually you want the TBC on but do try different settings if the quality is not there.
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/1865-jvc-filtering-svhs.html

1. Split up the original .avi files, without any other processing. There are some segments that are not needed so I do not plan on keeping those. The rest of the footage I plan on keeping the DV capture for archival purposes.

Use virtualdub in direct stream copy mode for audio and video. Open your file, select a segment you want to erase hit del, click save as avi and get a new file without the part you deleted. No changes made to the original.

2. Process the files to give to my parents. The captures seem very good in my opinion, so I don’t think there is a lot to do editing wise. Mainly I’d like to deinterlace and do anything you would normally need to to VHS footage, and then compress them to save storage space. I’m also planning on uploaded these to Youtube so I’d like to get more info on processing for that.

To deinterlace there is nothing that comes close to QTGMC, you can even denoise with it. For a youtube upload it is best to deinterlace first. You will need avisynth and megui but you can also open avs scripts in virtualdub, there was a thread recently here. Simply ignore the Srestore part.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/377869-MeGUI-my-first-use-of-it-and-some-questions

To get more precise help you would need to post a 10 seconds sample from a VHS and Hi8 capture.

[usually_quiet]

double post

[usually_quiet]

Well it seems I've lucked out. I'm including this part mostly for anyone who stumbles on this in the future. I picked up some MiniDV tapes at Walmart. (Sidebar: This was an adventure on it's own. I checked Walmart.com to make sure they had MiniDV tapes in stock. They had a 3-pack available for same day pickup at one of my local Walmarts for $8.50. I went to the store and it was priced at $16.99! I talked with a manager and they said they would do a price match at the register. I'm glad I looked online!) I got home, hooked the camera up with s-video, but I did not get a display. I went through the manual and found you have to choose between video / s-video for the inputs. I thought I was at a dead end since I do not have the remote, but I remembered the SC-25 remote works as a universal remote. I was able to program it to JVC and get into the menu, and switch it to S-video. I tried a recording and.... I had black bars through the screen, and "Use Cleaning Cassette" appeared. I have only used the DV side once before, and I'm wondering if the tape I'm using is a different brand and caused an issue. I ordered a cleaning cassette in case I need to use it again. However, I noticed that the s-video signal was being output through DV! It seems the JVC SR-VS30U will do analog passthrough, using the rear (L1) s-video input, as long as you set the input to "s-video" in the menu.

Being able to access the menu has added a couple more questions. I’m looking at the available menu options here: http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/PRODV/manual/VS30U_4.pdf. The settings I am wondering about are:

Digital TBC / NR
Video Stabilizer
Digital R3

Would I generally want all of these on? I realize this only affects VHS playback.

Now that I can capture from s-video, I think I am set equipment / capture wise. I've done a few VHS captures, and one from the S-video, and they look good. Now I’m looking for a workflow going forward. The two things I’d like to do are:

1. Split up the original .avi files, without any other processing. There are some segments that are not needed so I do not plan on keeping those. The rest of the footage I plan on keeping the DV capture for archival purposes.

2. Process the files to give to my parents. The captures seem very good in my opinion, so I don’t think there is a lot to do editing wise. Mainly I’d like to deinterlace and do anything you would normally need to to VHS footage, and then compress them to save storage space. I’m also planning on uploaded these to Youtube so I’d like to get more info on processing for that.

Is there any good guides for general AVI editing and VHS capture post-processing, or should I start a new thread? I’ve found some guides but they seem to be more focused on restoring or correcting footage, and don't deal with DV captures.

Thanks again for all the help!

AV equipment tends to be unable to detect active analog audio and video connections by itself. Normally you do need to use a menu setting to specify which ports you are using for input. If you were previously unable to select the video input that was used for connecting your camera, that certainly explains why you could not capture DV from the JVC deck's firewire out before now.

If you want free editing software, SolveigMM AVI Trimmer + MKV looks like it can perform basic DV AVI editing. Do you already have any paid video editing software? As I recall there are plenty of paid editing programs that can work with DV thanks to the popularity of DV cameras in the past.

I never had to do any analog tape capture using DV, so I cannot tell you what kind of post processing would be advantageous.

Keep copies of your original unedited DV capture files, if you can. Some day you may have a reason to go back to them.

[dellsam34]

I just want to add to the replies above, First I'm glad that you were able to output S-Video signal thru iLink as I suggested above, As for TBC, as far as I know TBC works only when the tape is inserted in the deck, I don't think it works with S-Video input signal which is your camcorder in your case, But I could be wrong. Don't your camcorder equipped with TBC function?