editing question

[Noobmeister]

not sure if i'm in the right place here, but i have an editing question.
i want to make a (very modest) music video. i plan to make 5 shots of 4 separate musicians and one with the entire band. i will end up with 5 mpeg video's on my camera (sony dcr-sr32e). how can i edit these 5 shots together? i have no idea how to get audio and video in sync. i could do it manually, with a lot of guesswork and a guaranteed shitty result, or i could use suggestions from you people. i'm not so much bothered about which editing software to use. i think it's a question of recording each shot with time code. is there a hidden time code on mpegs? if so, how do i read it?

[edDV]

This would normally be done with 5 cameras. Is this what you are doing?

Recording 5 performances with one camcorder will allow only approximate audio sync with manual video positioning against a single audio track.

For multi-cam, expect non-genlocked camcorders to run at slightly different speeds. This means more manual tweaking.

You will need an edit program that displays the waveforms and allows sub frame editing for audio. Typical prosumer edit programs allow 8 to 16 subframe accuracy.

[Noobmeister]

"Is this what you are doing?"

hell no! i have one camera that would have to record the performance 5 times in a row, not at once.

Recording 5 performances with one camcorder will allow only approximate audio sync with manual video positioning against a single audio track.

how much is "approximate"? if the result is 1/4 second difference/time lag between audio and video, i might just accept that. if it's more like 1 full second time lag, the result would be ridiculous.
it's more of an experiment, not a job worth paying for. but what if every shot in the final edit is 2 seconds long? that editing job with what you call "manual tweaking" could take days!

Typical prosumer edit programs allow 8 to 16 subframe accuracy.

uhm, what does this mean in simple english?

[redwudz]

If you have the band members individually and collectively lip sync to a prerecorded tape of theirs, then use that for your audio track, it might be a bit easier. Then you just have to sync the individual videos to your prerecorded track. It's a bit of work, but you should be able to make it look fairly close to a multi camera setup. Careful planning of your shots and diagramming it all out in advance may help. Either way, I hope they have a lot of patience, as this may take a while to record. Just one suggestion.

[Noobmeister]

that would be an option... in theory. the band plays heavy metal and those people are not keen on lipsynching. we're not talking about ashlee simpson here!
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,735566,00.html

having them sing & play live and recording that is another option but that would result in one long and boring shot. would anyone want to want a 4 minute song without any edits?

[edDV]

... that editing job with what you call "manual tweaking" could take days!

Yes easily. You need to try this to learn the difficulties. Syncing audio is about as frustrating as editing gets.

Typical prosumer edit programs allow 8 to 16 subframe accuracy.

uhm, what does this mean in simple english?

Each frame of video lasts 1/30th second. Those looking for tight lip sync or sound effects matching want 1/240th to 1/480th second sync precision, hence 8 to 16 sound edit points within a frame.

[zoobie]

shoot each performer and wide angle for a total of 5 complete songs
pick which version of the song they like best
demux and place on timeline
now you can insert each performer's video and the band's wide angle to the audio timeline
you can always fine tune the sync to audio by speeding/slowing the video frame rate

[Noobmeister]

@ zoobie
i might try it that way!

@ edDV

Each frame of video lasts 1/30th second

i believe that is ntsc. i'm using pal which is 1/25.

[edDV]

I didn't know they used PAL on Mars.

[guns1inger]

Only in the southern parts and a few patches to the north-west.

[dadrab]

Only in the southern parts and a few patches to the north-west.

True, with the exception of the extreme southern regions where they use LAP.

[Midzuki]

Not to mention that PAL is not supported in the United States of Mars.

[edDV]

Not to mention that PAL is not supported in the United States of Mars.

The original Nasa Moon camera was made by Westinghouse and operated 60 fields per second.