is this illegal?

[jeex]

i own the rushmore dvd;

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6305428239/qid=1077576071/sr=1-1/ref=sr_...v=glance&s=dvd

its letterbox widescreen.

a friend of mine owns the criteron collection of rushmore;

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003Q42P/qid=1077576071/sr=1-2/ref=sr_...v=glance&s=dvd

its anamorphic widescreen.


would be illegal if he gave me a dvd-r of the movie? i prefer anamorphic widescreen to letterbox widescreen, because not only is the picture better, it looks better on my television.

would it be legal if i had a movie-only copy, without the extra menu's and bonus features that are included with the criteron collection version?

[MrMungus]

Copying video content is illegal. EOT.

[sacajaweeda]

Copying video content is illegal. EOT.

Can you reccomend a good program for deleting all the illegal copies of home movie videos I made?

[zworg2]

Copying video content is illegal. EOT.

I repeat the above!

However the idiosyncracies of the law rather depends on where you live.

Many believe it it legal for you to copy your own DVD, but ONLY for your own use.

However to be certain you will ahve to check your country and if applicable state laws.

Zworg2

[Cobra]

How is it illegal if you already own the rights to that particular movie? Perhaps it is wrong in the eyes of the law, but morally how can one object?

I can't see that they'd come after you for taking a copy of a film you already own, just in a different format. If they do, they're getting really sad!

Cobra

[adam]

I don't see how this can possibly be legal in any country which has copyright laws. You do not purchase any right whatsoever in the movie when you purchase a DVD, VHS, broadcast whatever. You simply purchase the physical medium and a right to use it. You own the piece of plastic, you own the strip of tape, you own the right to see HBO show it...that's it. You have no right to the movie Rushmore generally, so it would be illegal for someone to give you any version of the copyrighted film, even if you own a similar or even identical version of the film.

This logic is no different than with any other product out there in the world. People just assume that they have some superior right to a product simply because it can be copied by the consumer.

[zworg2]

How is it illegal if you already own the rights to that particular movie? Perhaps it is wrong in the eyes of the law, but morally how can one object?

copying / obtaining a copy of something that hasnt been purchased through the proper channels IS illegal

and illegal is illegal, there is no way round it.

buying one pair of trainers from one shop does NOT entitle me to take a similar (or identical) pair from the same or a different shop.

I can't see that they'd come after you for taking a copy of a film you already own, just in a different format. If they do, they're getting really sad!

no they probably wouldnt but thats not the point, it is still illegal.

You do not purchase any right whatsoever in the movie when you purchase a DVD, VHS, whatever

TRUE

I don't see how this can possibly be legal in any country which has copyright laws

NOT true

unfortunately I can not quote the relevant laws, but certain countries allow you to keep a copy of purchased material, but only as a backup for your own use, and can not be used at the same time as the original.

life and laws - weird and wonderful

Zworg2

[adam]

I don't see how this can possibly be legal in any country which has copyright laws

NOT true

unfortunately I can not quote the relevant laws, but certain countries allow you to keep a copy of purchased material, but only as a backup for your own use, and can not be used at the same time as the original.

Please re-read my post and keep in mind that I am responding to the actual question presented in this thread. Of course some countries allow you to make a backup of YOUR DVD which you have purchased, but that is not the question. He owns one version of the film and he wants his friend to give him another version of the same film. There is no country (with copyright laws) which would ever allow this for the very reason you stated in your last post. If this were allowed then we could go and grab an extra copy of any DVD or VHS we already owned, or we could grab the movie on DVD to go along with the VHS we just bought, simply because its the same movie.

[zworg2]

Please re-read my post and keep in mind that I am responding to the actual question presented in this thread. Of course some countries allow you to make a backup of YOUR DVD which you have purchased, but that is not the question. He owns one version of the film and he wants his friend to give him another version of the same film. There is no country (with copyright laws) which would ever allow this for the very reason you stated in your last post. If this were allowed then we could go and grab an extra copy of any DVD or VHS we already owned, or we could grab the movie on DVD to go along with the VHS we just bought, simply because its the same movie.

And i have re-iterated the only time which making a copy of a DVD is legal.
I admit, that this goes off at a slight tangent (and thus off topic), but is still trying to answer the original question.

Jeex has not purchased the film he wants to copy, and can therefore not legally copy it.

Adam, i think we are saying the same thing from different angles!!!

Zworg2

[Rookie64]

would be illegal if he gave me a dvd-r of the movie? i prefer anamorphic widescreen to letterbox widescreen, because not only is the picture better, it looks better on my television.

It's legal for you to trade your letterbox widescreen for your friend's anamorphic widescreen DVD (that is if your friend is willing to trade)

Also legal to sell your letterbox widescreen DVD and use the money to buy the anamorphic widescreen DVD (even a previously owned one on Ebay, Half.com or similar site)

8)

Copying video content is illegal. EOT.

Only if it's copyrighted :P


You guys should check out MrSkin's site sometime - here's a guy who makes a living copying every movie from Netflix, Ebay,TV and then some (even a few before they are released in stores and some from pirated screeners) ...and charges a member fee of like $30 per person to download the clips....and on top of that he goes across the country on radio and TV to brag about it and claims that is site is 100% legal and has his lawyer waiting on hand.

Now there's something to ponder

[MrMungus]

You guys should check out MrSkin's site sometime - here's a guy who makes a living copying every movie from Netflix, Ebay,TV and then some (even a few before they are released in stores and some from pirated screeners) ...and charges a member fee of like $30 per person to download the clips....and on top of that he goes across the country on radio and TV to brag about it and claims that is site is 100% legal and has his lawyer waiting on hand.

I'd think this would be covered under fair use (parody or maybe criticism). Then again, there's a lot of illegal stuff that's overlooked or ignored.

[ChrisX]

It is illegal to copy a friend's anamorphic widescreen DVD version of Rushmore. No matter if he owns a letterbox version of the same film.

Exchanging DVDs isn't illegal and this is a way around. This is what I am saying, swap DVDs and keep them.

Jeex can keep the anamorphic widescreen DVD version for himself and then backup the film into DVD-R. His friend can if he wishes to have the letterbox version instead.

I think he is only lending the anamorphic widescreen version to Jeex and this is as illegal. Jeex to copy that lended DVD as illegal as well.

Jeex, why are you telling us your illegal ways? Is your OS, WinXP illegal?

[jeex]

i was asking if it was illegal. lawyers want to charge me to talk to them, so i ask the advice of the paralegal vcdhelp community..

nope, i've got an authentic windows xp cd in my desk..

[ChrisX]

I live in Australia. On the subject of backing up my own Region 1 DVDs.

Is this under the jurisdiction of the U.S. or Australia? Fair use doesn't apply here in Australia and does this include America's Region One DVDs?

Making a DVD-R copy of my own movies, any movie as region 1 as illegal here in Australia? Is this correct?

I am wondering as this is a complex copyright issue?

[g_shocker182]

jeex im surprised you actual care...

[fmctm1sw]

You guys should check out MrSkin's site sometime - here's a guy who makes a living copying every movie from Netflix, Ebay,TV and then some (even a few before they are released in stores and some from pirated screeners) ...and charges a member fee of like $30 per person to download the clips....and on top of that he goes across the country on radio and TV to brag about it and claims that is site is 100% legal and has his lawyer waiting on hand.

Now there's something to ponder

This is something I never understood. A local radio station used to have that guy on all the time when I was stationed in Florida. Whats' the big deal? If you want free porn, check your inbox...

[zworg2]

I think he is only lending the anamorphic widescreen version to Jeex and this is as illegal.

So by your reckoning, i am breaking the law everytime i borrow a video from blockbusters.

get real - you can lend, borrow and rent quite legally.

its the 'copying to keep' that is illegal.

Zworg2

[ChrisX]

I think he is only lending the anamorphic widescreen version to Jeex and this is as illegal.

So by your reckoning, i am breaking the law everytime i borrow a video from blockbusters.

get real - you can lend, borrow and rent quite legally.

its the 'copying to keep' that is illegal.

Zworg2

You're wrong, hiring from a hire video store is a different matter than borrowing from a friend.

You have no right to the movie Rushmore generally, so it would be illegal for someone to give you any version of the copyrighted film, even if you own a similar or even identical version of the film.

Therefore, it is illegal to lend a video or DVD to a friend.

[adam]

You don't have to have an interest in the movie Rushmore to lend someone your Rushmore DVD. Like I said, your interest is in the medium itself, and that is what you are lending them. There still exists only one copy which has been bought and paid for by you. Now if you made a backup and lent or gave them that while retaining the original copy, then yes that would be illegal. There would be two copies being used by different people, yet only one of them was actually purchased.

[zworg2]

You're wrong, hiring from a hire video store is a different matter than borrowing from a friend.

.......

Therefore, it is illegal to lend a video or DVD to a friend.

NO

It is legal to lend virtually anything to a friend (there are of course exceptions and passport comes to mind).

THE ILLEGAL ACTION WOULD BE THE CREATING A COPY OF IT, and then seperating the ownership of the original and the copy.

BEFORE you react to a post i suggest you read it! (yeah we are all guilty of missing a point or subtletly, but you react as if you havent even read it at all)

Zworg2

[ChrisX]

You're wrong, hiring from a hire video store is a different matter than borrowing from a friend.

.......

Therefore, it is illegal to lend a video or DVD to a friend.

NO

It is legal to lend virtually anything to a friend (there are of course exceptions and passport comes to mind).

THE ILLEGAL ACTION WOULD BE THE CREATING A COPY OF IT, and then seperating the ownership of the original and the copy.

BEFORE you react to a post i suggest you read it! (yeah we are all guilty of missing a point or subtletly, but you react as if you havent even read it at all)

Zworg2

It is illegal to lend or borrow your DVD to a friend, end of story. Don't argue. This is applicable at any country, read this from a DVD cover:

WARNING: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work produced are reserved. Unauthorized copying, hiring, lending, public performance, communication to the public, including radio and TV broadcast of this DVD is prohibited.

This is what it says, that lending is prohibited. YES, it is illegal.

[jeex]

WARNING: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work produced are reserved. Unauthorized copying, hiring, lending, public performance, communication to the public, including radio and TV broadcast of this DVD is prohibited.

This is what it says, that lending is prohibited. YES, it is illegal.

unauthorized lending.. so is there authorized lending? like if you own the movie, you cant let you friend borrow it? (even if there was never a copy made).. so you're saying i could sell it to my friend for a penny, and when he's done with it, he can sell it back to me for a penny?

or maybe i could sell it to him for services rendered, a handshake for example..

[Kevin abq]

Selling it to a buddy for a penny would be legal transfer, and buying it back for a penny would be too. There's always a legal way around it. The catch would be that when you sell it to him you're supposed to include any "backup" copy and he's supposed to return it when he sells it back.

What a joke

[zworg2]

It is illegal to lend or borrow your DVD to a friend, end of story. Don't argue. This is applicable at any country, read this from a DVD cover:

WARNING: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work produced are reserved. Unauthorized copying, hiring, lending, public performance, communication to the public, including radio and TV broadcast of this DVD is prohibited.

This is what it says, that lending is prohibited.

So YOU believe everything you read....no comment.....

just because it is printed DOES NOT make it true.

and just because something is true in one country DOES NOT make it true in another.

wake up and smell the coffee!
do your OWN research, do not rely on what you read or whatothers say.

and there is no need for the smiley showing a finger..

Zworg2

[ChrisX]

WARNING: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work produced are reserved. Unauthorized copying, hiring, lending, public performance, communication to the public, including radio and TV broadcast of this DVD is prohibited.

This is what it says, that lending is prohibited. YES, it is illegal.

unauthorized lending.. so is there authorized lending? like if you own the movie, you cant let you friend borrow it? (even if there was never a copy made).. so you're saying i could sell it to my friend for a penny, and when he's done with it, he can sell it back to me for a penny?

or maybe i could sell it to him for services rendered, a handshake for example..

Yes, there is authorized lending such as in libraries, educational bodies and video hire stores. Your fair use laws would cover that area for research and study purposes coming from libraries for education.

Check out: http://www.sc.edu/beaufort/library/fairuse.html

Lending a DVD to a friend would be same line as this, “Renting a Videotape That Is Copyright-Protected for Non classroom Use”: http://www.usg.edu/admin/legal/copyright/#part2c4

There is a difference between authorized and unauthorized lending and hiring.

For someone to lend a DVD to a friend is as such not within fair use. This is what I see as unlicensed borrowing or lending and as such illegal.

More info: http://www.usg.edu/admin/legal/copyright/

You don’t need to get permission to sell your DVD or to give it away permanently to a friend and this isn’t illegal.

Even my second hand store sells me a used DVD and this isn’t illegal.

Chris

[ChrisX]

It is illegal to lend or borrow your DVD to a friend, end of story. Don't argue. This is applicable at any country, read this from a DVD cover:

WARNING: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work produced are reserved. Unauthorized copying, hiring, lending, public performance, communication to the public, including radio and TV broadcast of this DVD is prohibited.

This is what it says, that lending is prohibited.

So YOU believe everything you read....no comment.....

just because it is printed DOES NOT make it true.

and just because something is true in one country DOES NOT make it true in another.

wake up and smell the coffee!
do your OWN research, do not rely on what you read or whatothers say.

and there is no need for the smiley showing a finger..

Zworg2

Are you still at it with me and don't argue.

[adam]

Actually Chriscjgs you are mistaken. Any copyright holder can literally place just about any terms they want on the use of their copyrighted material. The question is whether it can be upheld as legally enforceable. My guess is that in your country (I assume you are in Australia) it is enforceable in regards to most things which have such a disclaimer. I don't know much about Australian law but from what I have heard you guys have abnormally strict copyright laws, so that explains it. You cannot base statements about the rest of the world just on the laws of your country. In fact, if you are in Australia than I believe your laws are in fact very different from most other countries in regards to copyrights. I can tell you that I don't believe there are any DVDs in the US that have such a disclaimer, and I do not think it would be enforceable in court if they did.

Pretty much all of our copyright warnings simply prohibit unauthorized reproduction, distribution or exhibition and sometimes they add on no unauthorized sale or rent. In most countries, it is just as legal to lend a friend your DVD or VHS as it is to lend them a pair of socks. I'm sure there are exceptions out there for certain countries, and I believe yours is just one of them.

[jeex]

okay, i think adam has nailed this on the head.

australia just has back assward copyright laws that the rest of arent used to.. you cant let a friend borrow an original dvd/vhs that you own? crazy..


---

zworg2,

you need to stop being an *******. this is supposed to be a civil discussion. stop being a damn newb and trying to be cool and 'flame' someone.

disable that caps lock key and keep the bigass text out.

[adam]

I did a little bit of research.

Under 17 USCS § 109 (Copyrights) the Limitations on exclusive rights of copyright holders are listed and it states that

the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord

Lending would qualify as disposing of possession. Its your disk. You can sell it, lend it, or burn it if you want. You don't need a law granting this right. Its implicit that if you own something you can do whatever you want with it as long as it doesn't infringe on another person's rights or run contrary to public policy, and under this section it states that it is not an infringement on the copyright holder's rights to give it to another person, whether you ever get it back or not.

The section further grants you the right to make a public display of the copyrighted work so long as it occurs where the copy if located, ie: where the owner lives.

It further states that it is an infringement of copyright to

dispose of, or authorize the disposal of, the possession of that phonorecord or computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program) by rental, lease, or lending, for the purposes of direct or indirect commercial advantage

Such actions are only an infringement of copyright if you are doing it for commercial gain. Chriscjgs I would not be at all suprised if the laws of Australia (or just about any other country with copyright laws) are the same way. It seems like an incredible stretch to say that unauthorized lending applies to non-commercial activity which in no other way infringes on the copyright.

[ChrisX]

Thanks Adam for clarifying it for me. This is interesting.

Good on you, mate
Chris