Is MPEG-1 dvd compliant?

[Afterlife]

I cant find an answer for this anywhere, some say yes, some say no.

The only logical reason i can find is Yes, because DVD is MPEG-2 technology and MPEG-2 can easily decode MPEG-1.

So if i converted to MPEG-1 would any standalone dvd player be able to play it? or no? Can playstation2, and xbox play it?

Thanks

[BJ_M]

ALL dvd players can play DVD COMPLIANT mpeg1 ..

NOT all players can play VCD or burned disks though ..

[Afterlife]

Ok (and sorry if wrong forum) how do i encode in MPEG-1 compliant then? I only know how to encode in MPEG-1 VideoCD in TMPG.

[MOVIEGEEK]

https://www.videohelp.com/dvd
The only thing you have to convert is the audio:44.1khz->48khz

[Afterlife]

Does this mean if i use MPEG-1 ill be creating a DVD-VCD, because then it wont work on my ps2, or xbox!! Which is kinda odd, as it must have MPEG-2 capabilities to play MPEG-2 and thus should be able to play MPEG-1.

[lordsmurf]

Does this mean if i use MPEG-1 ill be creating a DVD-VCD, because then it wont work on my ps2, or xbox!! Which is kinda odd, as it must have MPEG-2 capabilities to play MPEG-2 and thus should be able to play MPEG-1.

No.
You're overthinking all this.

CD is a disc. DVD is a disc.

VCD is a format on CD. DVD-Video is a format on DVD.

MPEG1 is a filetype. MPEG2 is a filetype.

A VCD can use only MPEG1 files.
A DVD-Video can use either MPEG1 or MPEG2 files.

VCD audio is 44.1hz. DVD-Video audio is 48hz.

DVD-VCD is a lazy person dumping VCD data off the CD disc onto a DVD data disc. That's not a format of any kind. It's just moving files onto different discs.

[Afterlife]

ok so how do i encode say an AVI to MPEG-1 DVD Compliancy?

When i look in tmpgenc and i load the dvd ntsc format its mpeg2 only mpeg1 is VideoCD.

[presto]

I think I see what you are asking.

In Tmpgenc load the vcd template, then go into the extra templates and choose "unlock" then go to the audio settings and change them from 44.1khz->48khz

You will now have a file that can burned as a DVD.

If you have a file that is allready in VCD format you can use Tmpgenc DVD Author to burn it to DVD and the audio will automatically be corrected. I do this all the time to get 7 hours of TV on a DVD.

[Afterlife]

K gona do a test then, lets hope this works on my playstation2 lol.

[adam]

There's more to it than that. You must set the maximum frames per GOP to no more than 18 for NTSC and 15 for PAL. I believe the VCD template leaves this at automatic, which will result in a non-compliant DVD.

Also, the DVD standard supports mpeg1 video at a bitrate up to 1856kbits, so don't use 1150kbits unless you need to fit more content on each disk. At 1856kbits, you can fit a heck of alot of content per disk though.

[lordsmurf]

There's more to it than that. You must set the maximum frames per GOP to no more than 18 for NTSC and 15 for PAL. I believe the VCD template leaves this at automatic, which will result in a non-compliant DVD. Also, the DVD standard supports mpeg1 video at a bitrate up to 1856kbits, so don't use 1150kbits unless you need to fit more content on each disk. At 1856kbits, you can fit a heck of alot of content per disk though.

Yes, don't forget this. I'd also opt for 1856.

[Afterlife]

Is there anything else I should know before i go ahead?

Smurf would you do MPEG-1 or that DVD2ONE shrink trick?

[lordsmurf]

Is there anything else I should know before i go ahead?
Smurf would you do MPEG-1 or that DVD2ONE shrink trick?

I make decisions on a case-by-case basis. I'd have to see the source. At any rate, the DVD2ONE shrink trick will have less episodes on a disc, though quality will be better. The MPEG-1 will be lower quality (deinterlaced, low res) but can fit more per disc.

I'd need to know the quality and type of source. You said AVI? What resolution and is it interlaced? And what AVI codec is used?

I'd suggest taking time to try both methods if you really want to see what looks best. Do disc #1 one way, disc #2 the next way, and #3/etc the way you felt looked better. And if you have time, go back and redo the one that you didn't like using the other method.

[Afterlife]

Sounds like a long long process lol.

Original Source is:
File: 230 MB, duration: 23:19, type: OGG, 2audio stream(s), Qual: 49%
Video : 198 MB, 1192 Kbps, 23.976 fps, 640*480 (4:3), Divx v5
Audio : 16.1 MB, 96 Kbps, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, OggVorbis mode1

These are the file attribs based on AVICodec

The actual footage is anime, so I doubt its as motion intensive as say a movie or anything...

[Afterlife]

If youd like I can post a SS or if you like I could send you a clipping of the quality?

[adam]

23.976fps is not supported in the DVD standard with mpeg1. You'd have to encode to 29.97fps which would seriously degrade quality.

Just encode to 23.976fps, 352x240 mpeg2 instead and set the encode mode to 3:2 pulldown while playback. Now you can use any bitrate up to 9800kbits, so just calculate the correct avg to use to totally fill your disk.

The only reason to ever use mpeg1, IMO, is if your source is mpeg1 and otherwise DVD compliant. Then you can just author as a DVD rather than re-encode it. But if you are going to have to re-encode anyway, you might as well go with mpeg2 becase you are not nearly as constrained.

[Afterlife]

Okay so encode as a MPEG-2, 352x240res 23.976fps, and a 3:2pulldown. Should i Use CQ or a 2 pass VBR?

See Adam what im TRYING to do lol is get 13 of those episodes on 1 dvd...
yes thats 300mins, or 5hrs of footage...

So im willing to take a stab at the quality a lil, as long as its not gigantic..

So how do i calculate each files bitrate if i want to do this? Can i still use the DVD2ONE shrink trick if i encode at say 2000kbs to get it on one dvd?

Thanks

[BJ_M]

i made a 6 hour long dvd last week for one of our clients .. it was for use for audio playback only -- but since i had to stick some video on there to mux with the audio ... i went ahead i did it .. didnt look bad really ..

used 1/2 d1 , 1500 bit rate avg (3800 max, 192 min) mpeg2 @ 23.976 , 192 ac3 audio stereo ..

i underscaned the video to 86% .....

8 bit dcc and a 99 matrix and clamped color to ire 7.5 , no menu and made it self playng and self looping and disabled all user controls ...

[Afterlife]

When doing the 3:2pull down do i do that just in the video settings or do i also tick the box in the advanced settings for 3:2 pulldown?

Also when converting to MPEG-2 i was doing it from a decompressed avi file from the OGM. when i was messing around with the tmpg i noticed that i could load my ogms in with tmpg and have no need to use the AVI file for the quality!! Only drawback is i got an error with the audio, so i ripped the audio with goldwave and used the audio from a wav source, and it seems to be doing the job. Its going to take an hour for it to be done.

But here are the stats I used:
352x240 MPEG-2, 23.976(29fps at playback) with the 3:2pulldown
For the bitrate seeing as im going to need each file to be around 330MB fit 13 eps on 1 DVD I used a CQ of 65% with a min of 0 and a max of 3000. This may prove to be too big, wish tmpg could predict the ending file size for me before i encode so i could tweak more..

now my question is this! What authoring program accepts this kind of mpeg2 because from my research this is not a typically accepted DVD compliant mpeg2

I like DVDit! because I can make some real cool menus with is, with an intro movie, music during menus and i can even edit the way it looks and such... tho i know the program has a hard time accepting anything without converting it to what it thinks is the standard, so i doubt DVDit can use it..(shame)

Now TMPG DVD author i like because never had a problem with its DVD conversions before, only problem is I hate its lack of menu capabilities!!


Now on a further note, can anyone tell me for a typical 23 min long track, how big is the audio track(in MB)? if its not to large im going to try and put both audio tracks on the anime, tho i hear only Maestro is good for this, and i dont think maestro will accept the 352x240 mpeg2s ugh. Well see what happens

[Afterlife]

excuse my ignorance

whats 1/2 d1? (im thinking this has to do with the dimensions?)
Did you use a 2pass VBR?

also what is underscanning?

8 bit dcc and a 99 matrix and clamped color to ire 7.5 ,

Dont get any of this lol, only an amature authorer Tho I am learning!!!

[adam]

Don't enable the 3:2 pulldown filter no the advanced tab, that's something totally different. Just use the one on the video tab.

D1=720x480
Half D1= 352x480/576

Half D1 is also DVD compliant and it is a good resolution for bitrates around 2mbit.

The settings you are using are perfectly within the DVD standards, but you are right some authoring programs only accept the more typical resolutions. Go ahead and try using these mpgs in whatever program you want and see if it works.

Maestro accepts 352x240 mpeg2 just fine.

If you want to know the size of the audio or the video at a given time length than you need to use a bitrate calculator. You can get one in the tools section of this site. If you want to accurately predict the output size of your movie than CQ won't work, you'll have to use 2-pass VBR.

[Afterlife]

What would the difference in quality be using a 2pass VBR compared to CQ?

[adam]

At the same bitrate/filesize, if anything 2-pass would be higher quality. Most likely you probably won' t see any difference though.

[Afterlife]

does the 2:3pull down thingy work with 352x480? Im not liking the 352x240 resoloution...

[BJ_M]

352x240 res would (should ) not be interlaced

[Afterlife]

Yes but can I use 23.976fps(29 at playback) 3:2 pulldown menu with any res other than 352x240?

[adam]

23.976fps with pulldown can be used with mpeg2 at any resolution. So the DVD standard supports mpeg2 at 352x240, 352x480, 704x480, and 720x480. You can use any of these resolutions on your DVD and encode at 23.976fps, it will be compliant and playback just fine.

The 3:2 pulldown flag is not supported in mpeg1. Anytime you use mpeg1 on a DVD you have to encode at either 25 or 29.97fps. 23.976fps is not supported.

[Afterlife]

Found a encoding that works and doesnt kill the quality!!!

I encode at 352x480 with 23.976fps with the 3:2pulldown. I use CQ for the encoding with a min of 1500, a max of 3000 and a quality of 65%.

Does anyone know how much bigger it makes the file if i increase the %? and what it does exactly as im not to sure...

right now i have encoded one of the files using this method and it came out to 323MB which is great as 13 of these files will fill 4200MB leaving room on the DVD!! I would like to put dual audio and subs on the DVD if i have the room now, as I cant see 13 audio tracks encoded with AC3 at 256kbs(or even 192) taking up a crap load of room.

If anyone knows how i could put both audio tracks on the dvd with subs as well please give some advise!

[adam]

CQ works by setting a constant quantization value. It adjusts the bitrate to maintain this constant value, regardless of how much bitrate it takes. This is what you are setting with your % value. How much the filesize and quality is effected by adjusting this setting entirely depends on your source.

[Afterlife]

So i should experiment with 100% and see how much bigger it makes the file?