Trying to go pro...

[Tumbo]

Hi there.
First of all, I'd like to say thanx for a great forum. I've been a visitor a while, but now finally signed up, since now it's time for me to ask about some advices and help.

See, shortly, I love makin' and editing videos, and this is what I want to be better on. I got always so many ideas, and my mind never stops producing them. At first I basicly made videos for the site euro-rap.com, but also some others. I'm have always been my amateur video DV-camera, and Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5, and my mind Lately I've been doing some work for many producers/artists and other works. I have starting to do my own videos, and here are some of them:

Start The Riot - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOAeJ6lrT08
Who's Fooling Who - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Gtcq6ayrM
Africa - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5mVChxHstQ
Just to mention a couple of them.

The artists I did these video for, now want me to record some pro videos for them.
What was first, was that I knew that I had to get a better video camera.
So I have been checking out different ones the last 4-6 months, and yesterday I finally bought a JVC Everio GZ-HD7. The camera is freakin' cool!


But now that I am starting to operate this camera, I realize how different it is compared to my normal way of woring.
Before, I did the following:
* recorded/filmed with my DV-camera
* converted from the mini DV-disc to the computer
* converted to a mgp-file so I could edit it in Adobe Premiere
* edited and added effects with AP 1.5 PRO
* then it was just saving, and I was done!

Now, this one records in .tod files, that are enormous! How am I suppose to work now?
Please, give me some advices.
* How do I get the files smaller, and yet remain the great quality?
* Which way is the best to convert? avi? mpg2? if I am using Adobe Premiere?
* And finally, which size shall I shrink it to, if I will be makin' videos for tv-stations or similar? is it 720x576 or bigger/smaller?

Greetings
Tumbo

[Krispy Kritter]

File size is likely the difference between SD video and HD video.

You typically want to work with the files in their native state and then perform any conversion last to meet your desired target/audience. ANY conversion will reduce quality. Plan you steps to convert as few a times as possible. You could likely just record at a lower quality setting, to help reduce the file size.

No offense, but if you intend to convert all of your output just to be able to work with the video, then you wasted money on a higher quality camera.

[Tumbo]

No offense, but if you intend to convert all of your output just to be able to work with the video, then you wasted money on a higher quality camera.

Why is that? You say it's not possible to work with these files like they are?
I mean, for example proffesional music video makers, do have expencive and pro cameras, right?

So to obtain the best quality and work with this quality as this camera provides me with, is impossible?

[Soopafresh]

It is an HDV camera, which is MPEG2 at 1920x1080. You need a fast computer with lots of disk space to edit the footage. You can probably use an editor like Vegas.

[Tumbo]

It is an HDV camera, which is MPEG2 at 1920x1080. You need a fast computer with lots of disk space to edit the footage. You can probably use an editor like Vegas.

I am used to work in Adober Premiere, so that is okay aswell I presumer?
And how fast computer do I need?
Right now I got a computer from 2002, so it's pretty "old".
Give me some specs examples on what I need? I need like 4GB RAM-memory, right?
I have to 500GB external hard discs so that is not a problem.

And in other words, if I really want to make this into proffesion:
* keep the camera, buy a better computer

Other then, return the camera (got 14 days full return guarantee if I'm not satisfied with the product) and buy a cheaper one.

Guys, this is want I want to work with. I want to make videos for tv stations etc...

But please don't tell me I have "wasted my money" on this camera, cause I've worked hard to gather up this money on this one, and as I have heard, it's the best one for this price!

[Soopafresh]

No, you haven't wasted your money An Intel Q6600 processor with 2-4GB of RAM should work well. I don't know much about Premiere, so I can't tell you about importing HDV footage.

[disturbed1]

I don't think you did enough research before buying the camera. It uses a propritary video format that no off the self video editing package will edit with ease.

The HD7’s peculiar .TOD video file extensions do not allow you to simply drag and drop clips into an NLE like Adobe Premiere - to do that, you will need to convert files using the included software bundle.

If you bother to do that the quality will drop. You want to edit in the highest quality format you can. Filming in HD just to down convert to SD, then edit, then encode, should of stuck with mini-DV. The quality of the camera is also sub par compared to something like the Canon HV20, which is cheaper, easier to edit with, and has better support from NLE's.


You're in a pickle right now With, as I see it, 2 choices. Build a PC and software combo to work with your current JVC, or, return the JVC, do some research, and purchase a camera that is better supported by your current set up.


Want system specs?
Quad Core Intel
3-4gig ram
dual 750gig drives in a raid setup
nVidia Quadro video card.

If you want to be "PRO" you'll need pro equipment.

[stiltman]

You're in a pickle right now With, as I see it, 2 choices. Build a PC and software combo to work with your current JVC, or, return the JVC, do some research, and purchase a camera that is better supported by your current set up.


Want system specs?
Quad Core Intel
3-4gig ram
dual 750gig drives in a raid setup
nVidia Quadro video card.

If you want to be "PRO" you'll need pro equipment.

I concur....Return the JVC, and get a Canon or Panasonic.
I would also say the Quadro video card is a must have, but they cost a lot.
I use Avid Xpress and I went with a similar specs. However, I used the onboard X3000 video card at first. Realized it wasn't good enough, so I found a ATI X800 dirt cheap (used). That wasn't good enough, so I installed a Quadro 3450, got a great deal on it too (used).

I would also recommend researching Nvidia's site too.
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_pvhd_build.html

[edDV]

Tumbo,

Read through this post to get an idea of the issues unique to the JVC Everio GZ-HD7. You may want to switch camcorders to HDV but then you will also need to upgrade Premiere Pro to CS3 for the easiest path. CS3 alows an HDV project. V1.5 does not directly support HDV. You would need to decompress.
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic333566.html

It is possible to work with the HD7 but you would need to hire an expert consultant to design a work flow and set up your system for uncompressed editng or convert the TOD files to and MPeg2 format Premiere Pro 1.5 can import. The latter solution will be sluggish even with a QuadCore.

[Tumbo]

Thank you kindly for your responses.

So, in a summary, this camera, The JVC is not the best solution for me, that will make pro music videos, that will be aired on TV, and I want the best quality and work with programs like Adobe Premiere? If that is the case, I pray to God that I can return my camera...

If I return it, which camera do you think I should get?

And yes I will buy a new computer anyway.
And how about going Mac? Why do people say that Final Cut is better then Adobe Premiere?
And why do all the pro's work with Mac?

The thing is, if I'm gonna spent that much money on things, I want the best ones for the price.

And I did research on that JVC HD7E Everio, and everybody was telling me that it was the best... And now it suddently isn't?

[edDV]

You are in need of an advisor especially if you expect to make video acceptable for broadcast.

Premiere Pro and Final Cut Pro can both get the job done. It comes down to the what the people you consult use and if they will help you. If they are doing this kind of work they have years of experience getting to that status. You should expect a similar learning curve. Find a mentor before spending more money.

[Tumbo]

But, so far, you think I should try to return the JVC?
It will not fulfill my needs?

[edDV]

But, so far, you think I should try to return the JVC?
It will not fulfill my needs?

The HV7 can be made to work but you need help.

If you can give us an idea of your budget, we can suggest other camcorders by price range. If you need something quick, consider the Panasonic HVX-200 plus a FireStore FS-4 or FS-100 hard drive.

[disturbed1]

And I did research on that JVC HD7E Everio, and everybody was telling me that it was the best... And now it suddently isn't?

It may be the best for some things. But for what you're wanting to do, it certainly isn't. It reminds me of those DVD based cameras. Great for point, shoot, burn, but not much else.

Apple makes a nice product. Quite a few movies are made with FCP. If you watch the ending credits, you'll see an Apple logo, and a FCP logo. Avid, Vegas, Eidus and Premiere are also used. Though Avid and Vegas are far more popular than the latter.

If you set edDV in front of FCP and give him a week to turn out a project, I'll bet it would pale in comparison to what he could do in Vegas. Much like making you work with Avid instead of Premiere. Most pro NLE's have close to the same feature set. It depends on how well YOU can use it.

If you want to work in the Biz FCP, Avid and Vegas are used by more cutters/edit houses than any other. If you apply for a job, or submit a project that was edited with Ziel Stien's, you'd most likely be turned away. Find out what the industries in your area use, and what they'll accept. Make sure you're work flow can accommodate their needs. You could make the next Godfather, but if you produce it in libnut format, and distribute it on Sony Mo discs, no one would ever notice.

[aedipuss]

you might want to take the time to ask what formats the stations will accept. you may find they want xdcam/hd, dvcam, dvcpro 25/50/hd or another format that your camera can't shoot.

[edDV]

There are two half brains required for a project. The first is a technical project process design which is pure engineering. Storyboard, production plan and editing are all about the art but with technical consultation. Usually these are separate people.

[Tumbo]

But, so far, you think I should try to return the JVC?
It will not fulfill my needs?

The HV7 can be made to work but you need help.
If you can give us an idea of your budget, we can suggest other camcorders by price range. If you need something quick, consider the Panasonic HVX-200 plus a FireStore FS-4 or FS-100 hard drive.

Well, my budget? I bought the JVC HD7 here in Sweden, with full 4 years insurance, for 2114 USD. So that's my budget for a camera right there...

[edDV]

But, so far, you think I should try to return the JVC?
It will not fulfill my needs?

The HV7 can be made to work but you need help.
If you can give us an idea of your budget, we can suggest other camcorders by price range. If you need something quick, consider the Panasonic HVX-200 plus a FireStore FS-4 or FS-100 hard drive.

Well, my budget? I bought the JVC HD7 here in Sweden, with full 4 years insurance, for 2114 USD. So that's my budget for a camera right there...

Some alternatives. I'm not certain of PAL models

Canon HV20
A great learning HDV format camcorder. It has manual over-ride controls plus 24p (24pf) capability which is popular for music videos but requires a techie processing path vs. a true 24pa camcorder like the Panasonic HVX200 or DVX100.

Panasonic DVX100B
This is an SD (720x576p) DV format camcorder that works in pro style 24pa with FCP, Premiere Pro or Vegas.
(see http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/ )

Sony HDRFX1 (or used HDRFX7)
If you aren't ready for 24p headaches, these are the tried and true prosumer HDV format standards

Higher budget -> look to the HVX200 (DVCProHD), the Canon XH-A1 (HDV-1080i) or the new Sony XDCAM-EX models. Then there is the JVC HD100U for HDV 720p.

Another affordable option is to stay SD and use the trusty DV format Sony VX-2100 (or PD170). They are on deep discount now.

[Tumbo]

Thank you for your time edDV!
It's highly apriciated.
I'm getting my JVC HD7 ready for returning it tomorrow... I hope they will still take it back, even thought I opened the cd and installed the software that followed.
Anyway, the 2114 budget is really what I can afford at the moment.
I feel sad to return the JVC HD7 cause it's such an amazing camera, but if it will not fullfill my needs, then why spend so much money on it....?
Btw, what is "24p" that you mentioned a couple of times?

They camera that you mentioned that looks best for my budget, is the Canon HV20.
It's little cheaper then the JVC HD7, so I get some money over for a better computer.

THe other ones are waaay to expencive right now. Maybe if I do some works, and make some money, a Sony VX-2100 could be my future cam...

So if I manage to return the JVC HD7, and get the Canon HV20, it fits better for "my works"?

Greets

[stiltman]

I might add, Edius via BitCentral is taking away a huge market share from Avid right now. A LOT of stations are converting to digital and HD at the same time, and BitCentral is a LOT less expensive than Avid. So if you're looking for a future in Broadcasting think about that part of it too.

[edDV]

Thank you for your time edDV!
It's highly apriciated.
I'm getting my JVC HD7 ready for returning it tomorrow... I hope they will still take it back, even thought I opened the cd and installed the software that followed.
Anyway, the 2114 budget is really what I can afford at the moment.
I feel sad to return the JVC HD7 cause it's such an amazing camera, but if it will not fullfill my needs, then why spend so much money on it....?
Btw, what is "24p" that you mentioned a couple of times?

They camera that you mentioned that looks best for my budget, is the Canon HV20.
It's little cheaper then the JVC HD7, so I get some money over for a better computer.

THe other ones are waaay to expencive right now. Maybe if I do some works, and make some money, a Sony VX-2100 could be my future cam...

So if I manage to return the JVC HD7, and get the Canon HV20, it fits better for "my works"?

Greets

24P is progressive film rate. Most pro music videos are shot on film or 24p video.

I don't suggest you start there but the Canon HV20 has 24p capability when you want to experiment. Normal format is 16:9 1440x1080i HDV but it also shoots DV format (16:9 or 4:3) or converts HDV to wide 720x576 DV format for easy editing in Premiere Pro 1.5. For HDV editing you should consider upgrading Premiere to CS3.

[Tumbo]

24P is progressive film rate. Most pro music videos are shot on film or 24p video.

I don't suggest you start there but the Canon HV20 has 24p capability when you want to experiment. Normal format is 16:9 1440x1080i HDV but it also shoots DV format (16:9 or 4:3) or converts HDV to wide 720x576 DV format for easy editing in Premiere Pro 1.5. For HDV editing you should consider upgrading Premiere to CS3.

So, if I use Premiere CS3, and buy the Canon HV20, and buy a new computer, it's a better option than with the JVC HD7?

And speaking of the new computer thingy. Mac or PC?

[edDV]

24P is progressive film rate. Most pro music videos are shot on film or 24p video.

I don't suggest you start there but the Canon HV20 has 24p capability when you want to experiment. Normal format is 16:9 1440x1080i HDV but it also shoots DV format (16:9 or 4:3) or converts HDV to wide 720x576 DV format for easy editing in Premiere Pro 1.5. For HDV editing you should consider upgrading Premiere to CS3.

So, if I use Premiere CS3, and buy the Canon HV20, and buy a new computer, it's a better option than with the JVC HD7?

And speaking of the new computer thingy. Mac or PC?

The HV20 HDV and DV formats are directly supported by Premiere Pro CS3 or the latest FCP.

If you want to use Premiere Pro, a fast PC will be much cheaper than a Mac Pro. If you want to switch to FCP, you will need to switch to MAC.

[tarrickb]

I concur....Return the JVC, and get a Canon or Panasonic.
I would also say the Quadro video card is a must have, but they cost a lot.
I use Avid Xpress and I went with a similar specs. However, I used the onboard X3000 video card at first. Realized it wasn't good enough, so I found a ATI X800 dirt cheap (used). That wasn't good enough, so I installed a Quadro 3450, got a great deal on it too (used).

I would also recommend researching Nvidia's site too.
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_pvhd_build.html

Just wondering why such a high end video card is recommended? Is it contributing to rendering time at all?
I've been producing a TV show on a crappy Nvidea 6600 with Vegas and couldn't be happier

The reason why I pose this question is because I have plenty of hard drive space, RAM and processing power and could really care less about the video card.

[Tumbo]

The HV20 HDV and DV formats are directly supported by Premiere Pro CS3 or the latest FCP.

If you want to use Premiere Pro, a fast PC will be much cheaper than a Mac Pro. If you want to switch to FCP, you will need to switch to MAC.

So, you would go for a HV20 instead of the JVC HD7? It's a personal question for you?

And speaking of PC, there is a good price on a ACER M5100-5F7N AMD Phenom 9500 Quad, 4096 MB RAM, 500 GB hd, DVD+-RW, ATI X2600 PRO 512-1919 MB, Win Vista Premium here in Sweden. Is that enough...?

[Tumbo]

The reason why I pose this question is because I have plenty of hard drive space, RAM and processing power and could really care less about the video card.

That's exactly what I've heard as well. More hd space, more RAM and processing power, and you should not care about getting a super v-card.

[disturbed1]

Just wondering why such a high end video card is recommended? Is it contributing to rendering time at all?
I've been producing a TV show on a crappy Nvidea 6600 with Vegas and couldn't be happier

Yes, with the right software, it will off load some the rendering to the card and keep the cores open for other things. It's mainly for software like AutoCAD, Maya, Blender, and other apps that use 3d rendering. If you can remember how/why Matrox was the number 1 card for video editing back in the day, the Quadro line is even better.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/dcc.html
http://www.nvidia.com/page/gz_home.html
http://www.digistor.com.au/content.php?s=3&p=662

[edDV]

The HV20 HDV and DV formats are directly supported by Premiere Pro CS3 or the latest FCP.

If you want to use Premiere Pro, a fast PC will be much cheaper than a Mac Pro. If you want to switch to FCP, you will need to switch to MAC.

So, you would go for a HV20 instead of the JVC HD7? It's a personal question for you?

The JVC HD7 looks good on paper but in reviews the HV20 beat it for video quality. The HV20 also fits the same edit workflow of the higher end camcorders mentioned so it serves as a perfect "stand-in" as you learn editing and tune up your system and skills. That leaves you free to rent a higher end camcorder for the important shoots and substitute it into your process flow.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/The-Great-HD-Shoot-Out---Canon-HV20-Sony-HDR-HC7-...JVC-GZ-HD7.htm
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/d/Reviews&level_b=Camcorder&level_c=HD.htm

And speaking of PC, there is a good price on a ACER M5100-5F7N AMD Phenom 9500 Quad, 4096 MB RAM, 500 GB hd, DVD+-RW, ATI X2600 PRO 512-1919 MB, Win Vista Premium here in Sweden. Is that enough...?

That should be excellent for HDV format editing. You will need a second hard drive minimum for tmp files and video capture. Extra hard drives are cheap.

The ATI X2600 will have adequate HD MPeg2 playback performance. The OpenGL cards mentioned (like NVidia Quadra) better support advanced effects editing with vector based wireframe overlay assists but you probably won't need that.

[Tumbo]

And speaking of PC, there is a good price on a ACER M5100-5F7N AMD Phenom 9500 Quad, 4096 MB RAM, 500 GB hd, DVD+-RW, ATI X2600 PRO 512-1919 MB, Win Vista Premium here in Sweden. Is that enough...?

That should be excellent for HDV format editing. You will need a second hard drive minimum for tmp files and video capture. Extra hard drives are cheap.

I do have two external hard discs with 500gb each

So, tomorrow I will try to return the JVC HD7... I'll go and shoot myself if they will not take it back.

[stiltman]

I concur....Return the JVC, and get a Canon or Panasonic.
I would also say the Quadro video card is a must have, but they cost a lot.
I use Avid Xpress and I went with a similar specs. However, I used the onboard X3000 video card at first. Realized it wasn't good enough, so I found a ATI X800 dirt cheap (used). That wasn't good enough, so I installed a Quadro 3450, got a great deal on it too (used).

I would also recommend researching Nvidia's site too.
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_pvhd_build.html

Just wondering why such a high end video card is recommended? Is it contributing to rendering time at all?
I've been producing a TV show on a crappy Nvidea 6600 with Vegas and couldn't be happier

The reason why I pose this question is because I have plenty of hard drive space, RAM and processing power and could really care less about the video card.

In my case, it's all based on what I needed. At first, I just did some editing in Avid. Then I found I couldn't do full frame playout via the editor, so I went with a better card. Then I found I was spending more time in Avid Studio Toolkit. That required a more powerful card, so I got one.

If I would have taken my own advice, and Avid's system requirements, I would have just went with the Quadro card from the get go. Would my original card work with Vegas or Premier, yep. Is my current card better, yep.

BTW, I do not do any gaming.

Premiere Pro CS3 fully sup[ported grafic cards
http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/search_result.html?manuSearchVar=1&modelSearchV...raphic&format=

Avid Xpress system requirements
http://www.avid.com/products/xpresspro/specs.asp (all non mobile cards are Quadros)