What's the best deinterlacing method for VHS video for burning to DVD?

[Ferrari420]

The VHS video which is shot with those vintage camcorders. In my case I tried Yadif top field first and the resulting video is very jerky, and every movement of the camera is exaggerated. If you halve the temporal resolution and DVD requires 25/50, wouldn't that create an issue? What's the best deinterlacing method for VHS video to DVD considering framerate?

[davexnet]

DVD supports interlaced video, usually the best result is from leaving it as so.
Any reason to deinterlace?

[Ferrari420]

DVD supports interlaced video, usually the best result is from leaving it as so.
Any reason to deinterlace?

All of my videos have combing. I'll also only be playing the DVDs on HDTVs which have progressive displays.

[davexnet]

DVD supports interlaced video, usually the best result is from leaving it as so.
Any reason to deinterlace?

All of my videos have combing. I'll also only be playing the DVDs on HDTVs which have progressive displays.

Yes they do, but all these TV's know how to handle it, and do the double rate deinterlacing themselves.

If you want to deinterlace it can certainly be done, perhaps you should post a short sample from your capture.
Then somebody here can figure out the problem you described

[VHSvideocapture]

DVDS should be left interlaced at least that's my understanding.
I am new here but I have been told this by many people.
Newer HD -4K TV'S can't de-interlace properly because they were not made for viewing analogue content.
Most new TVS don't even have analogue inputs for analogue technology anymore? Everything is HDMI input based.

[Bwaak]

DVD supports interlaced video, usually the best result is from leaving it as so.
Any reason to deinterlace?

All of my videos have combing. I'll also only be playing the DVDs on HDTVs which have progressive displays.

They do not have combing per se, you see combing when playing on the equipment you have, which is strange as most software players can deinterlace now.

How do you think people watched DVDs 25 years ago?

DVDs allow flags to describe video type and field/frame pattern. Better DVD players obey the flags, the worse ones play everything as interlaced.

[VHSvideocapture]

They do not have combing per se, you see combing when playing on the equipment you have, which is strange as most software players can deinterlace now.

How do you think people watched DVDs 25 years ago?

DVDs allow flags to describe video type and field/frame pattern. Better DVD players obey the flags, the worse ones play everything as interlaced.

Windows media player foes not have any option to de-interlace well I have not seen it yet?
PowerDVD does, it use to cone pre installed on dell PCS in 2006 I think?
VLC can de interlace I think?

[Bwaak]

Splash is my choice for common delivery formats. VLC is for more exotic ones like Cineform, but you may need to enable deinterlacing explicitly. Media Player Classic also has deinterlacing options AFAIK.

[Skiller]

There are exactly zero reasons to deinterlace for DVD. It only makes things much worse!

If you halve the temporal resolution and DVD requires 25/50, wouldn't that create an issue?

Yes, it does. And that's why you should not do it.

[DB83]

The OP was asked for a sample - just in case his combing is not 'normal'. Beyond that, this topic goes nowhere.

[Ferrari420]

DVD supports interlaced video, usually the best result is from leaving it as so.
Any reason to deinterlace?

All of my videos have combing. I'll also only be playing the DVDs on HDTVs which have progressive displays.

Yes they do, but all these TV's know how to handle it, and do the double rate deinterlacing themselves.

If you want to deinterlace it can certainly be done, perhaps you should post a short sample from your capture.
Then somebody here can figure out the problem you described

In theory yes TVs should know how to handle it, but why would TV manufacturers support interlaced video if 99% of their customers won't use it and will be playing 1080p/4K progressive video for the life of the TV? I tried playing my burned DVD and there is horrific interlacing on the whole screen making it unwatchable. As the camcorder moves the video stutters. Should I use Yadif double frame rate top field or bottom field?

[Bwaak]

In theory yes TVs should know how to handle it, but why would TV manufacturers support interlaced video if 99% of their customers won't use it and will be playing 1080p/4K progressive video for the life of the TV?

Because it is still a standard? Because VHS, DVD, BD and broadcast TV still use it?

I tried playing my burned DVD and there is horrific interlacing on the whole screen making it unwatchable. As the camcorder moves the video stutters.

Combing and stutter means you just weaved two fields of each frame into one. You may find this ancient website useful, although the terminology may differ slightly: https://100fps.com/

Should I use Yadif double frame rate top field or bottom field?

You should use it for uploading to Youtube (and upscaling to at least 720p to have this frame rate enabled). For DVD-Video you don't need to deinterlace. DVD-Video does not support 50p/60p. For the smooth 50/60 image rate - field rate - keep your video interlaced.

Another option if you don't trust your TV deinterlacer: deinterlace to 50p, upscale to 720p50, then author an AVCHD Disc, play in your BD player

[lordsmurf]

Newer HD -4K TV'S can't de-interlace properly because they were not made for viewing analogue content.

No, false.

Most new TVS don't even have analogue inputs for analogue technology anymore?

Zero to do with interlacing.

In theory yes TVs should know how to handle it, but why would TV manufacturers support interlaced video if 99% of their customers won't use it a

No, false, most broadcasting is still interlaced.

Should I use Yadif double frame rate top field or bottom field?

"Yes" to watch (player deinterlaced the interlaced files).
"No" to molest the source files.

To be blunt, in order to be as clear as possible here:
If you want to make shitty quality video, you can certainly do so. I just hope I never have to watch your butchered video. In fact, I won't watch such crap, I'll move on to something else. That's how most people feel, though some will "be nice"/coddle your feelings about it, give the lip service, then turn it off when you're gone.

[DB83]

Well the OP has been asked twice and chooses to not even acknowledge the requests.

If he wanted an answer, I guess he is now too late for the holidays (certainly from me atleast)


But if he is serious and requires assistance then he needs to describe his workflow. Transfer from a vcr or the actual camcorder. Hardware and software used. Any cropping/resizing. AND that elusive sample (and if he does not know how to create the sample then just ask !!!!!)

[Alwyn]

I doubt that they will be back after that rant. VH strikes again.

[Ferrari420]

DVD supports interlaced video, usually the best result is from leaving it as so.
Any reason to deinterlace?

All of my videos have combing. I'll also only be playing the DVDs on HDTVs which have progressive displays.

Yes they do, but all these TV's know how to handle it, and do the double rate deinterlacing themselves.

If you want to deinterlace it can certainly be done, perhaps you should post a short sample from your capture.
Then somebody here can figure out the problem you described

I found out that the problem with my TV not deinterlacing was with DVDStyler. I burned another DVD of the same video, this time flagging it as interlaced in DVDStyler (all imported video is treated as progressive by default by DVDStyler), and it appears to have fixed the problem with the TV not deinterlacing the video. Now both my DVD player and TV deinterlace it. Except there is still a problem with the combination of stuttering and motion blur. I attached sample videos. In the first sample I enabled progressive scan in the DVD player with component cables. In the second sample I disabled progressive scan on the DVD player. With the original video file on my PC motion is silky smooth and looks nothing like it does when played on the DVD player. When I play the DVD on my PC motion is silky smooth.

When recording those samples the stuttering and motion blur was a lot worse looking at in person than what it looked like on camera. With 60fps you can see some things I am talking about. At 30fps the video looked like there was no problem to it.

[Sharc]

Can you guide us on how to create such crap?
Way too low bitrate it seems (your encode, not the "filmed" TV screen). Deinterlacing is not the problem here.
Post a sample of the video rather than some filmed screens.

[jagabo]

Now both my DVD player and TV deinterlace it. Except there is still a problem with the combination of stuttering and motion blur.

You used the wrong field order.

[lordsmurf]

I doubt that they will be back after that rant. VH strikes again.

Sometimes you have to put things in no uncertain terms for people. A watered-down comment of "it's not very good" is sometimes wrongly heard as "very good" or "not quite very good (but still good!)". Sometimes you must be very succinct, no room for misunderstanding allowed. Bluntness tends to accomplish this. There was no malice, and it was clearly marked as blunt.

Now both my DVD player and TV deinterlace it. Except there is still a problem with the combination of stuttering and motion blur.

You used the wrong field order.

I bet it was cropped while interlaced.

[DB83]

When recording those samples the stuttering and motion blur was a lot worse looking at in person than what it looked like on camera. With 60fps you can see some things I am talking about. At 30fps the video looked like there was no problem to it.

But these samples say nothing about the original cap unless you captured at 1080p which I doubt.


You were asked for an ORIGINAL capture which you now state, without evidence, was fine. And, again, pls answers ALL questions else we are merely guessing.

[Ferrari420]

Newer HD -4K TV'S can't de-interlace properly because they were not made for viewing analogue content.

No, false.

Most new TVS don't even have analogue inputs for analogue technology anymore?

Zero to do with interlacing.

In theory yes TVs should know how to handle it, but why would TV manufacturers support interlaced video if 99% of their customers won't use it a

No, false, most broadcasting is still interlaced.

Should I use Yadif double frame rate top field or bottom field?

"Yes" to watch (player deinterlaced the interlaced files).
"No" to molest the source files.

To be blunt, in order to be as clear as possible here:
If you want to make shitty quality video, you can certainly do so. I just hope I never have to watch your butchered video. In fact, I won't watch such crap, I'll move on to something else. That's how most people feel, though some will "be nice"/coddle your feelings about it, give the lip service, then turn it off when you're gone.

I let you know in my later post that the problem with interlacing has been solved. There's no need to deinterlace it. In terms of the stuttering I figured out the correct field order and set it now. As for the video quality what do you find bad about it in particular? I'm not sure what a good capture looks like. VHS all looks like mud on a screen. I'm not sure what people expect to see from home videos made with an 80s camcorder filmed in the 90s that have been degrading for the last 20 - 32 years in heat, light, humidity, and electromagnetic radiation. DVDStyler set my bitrate to 4.9mbps which completely fills the burned DVD so it can't be set any higher. It's 2 hours 29 minutes long. I don't have a $600 BlackMagic capture card and $10000 TBC, and even with those judging from people's screenshots they still look pretty average. Digitisation can't convert analog video to digital, only analog video to a digital format. All of my videos suffer from pixelation which is probably due to my Panasonic DMR-EH55, that price scalpers are now selling for $300 (I got mine for $30 and was incredibly lucky). I consider myself fortunate that I was able to record my 17 video tapes with what I have. If that looks like crap then there's little that I can do about it.

[Ferrari420]

... And no response. Just wanted to denigrate my video and call it "crap" to make them feel better about themselves because they have more money to spend on this than I do. Just what I expected. Video snobs. Nothing to offer except criticism.

[davexnet]

... And no response. Just wanted to denigrate my video and call it "crap" to make them feel better about themselves because they have more money to spend on this than I do. Just what I expected. Video snobs. Nothing to offer except criticism.

Don't jump to conclusions. The forum had been waiting for a sample of
your original capture before advising further

[Sharc]

... And no response. Just wanted to denigrate my video and call it "crap" to make them feel better about themselves because they have more money to spend on this than I do. Just what I expected. Video snobs. Nothing to offer except criticism.

No response??? You (@Ferrari420=former @bigbadben) have received all the help from members here, and you have been able to submit original captures as asked many times, rather than throwing in some filmed crap with your post#16 for members here to digest.....
It's not a matter of money as you insinuate. The problem is somewhere else it seems.

[Ferrari420]

Here's a sample of the original video.

[Ferrari420]

... And no response. Just wanted to denigrate my video and call it "crap" to make them feel better about themselves because they have more money to spend on this than I do. Just what I expected. Video snobs. Nothing to offer except criticism.

No response??? You (@Ferrari420=former @bigbadben) have received all the help from members here, and you have been able to submit original captures as asked many times, rather than throwing in some filmed crap with your post#16 for members here to digest.....
It's not a matter of money as you insinuate. The problem is somewhere else it seems.

At the time that linked thread was posted I didn't know what interlacing was. That was an easy fix as I just needed to have those files deinterlaced for viewing on my PC. This thread was about why there was that stuttering problem (which I mistakenly thought was due to interlacing, which was why I asked about how to deinterlace for DVD because I thought that the interlaced files weren't being deinterlaced) and then the topic changed to video quality. I was never asked to provide an "original sample" in those words. [QUOTE=davexnet;2716499][QUOTE=Ferrari420;2716498]

DVD supports interlaced video, usually the best result is from leaving it as so.
If you want to deinterlace it can certainly be done, perhaps you should post a short sample from your capture.
Then somebody here can figure out the problem you described

I misinterpreted "post a short sample from your capture" as take a video of the screen because we were talking about DVD. My post #11 was not a rant, I was asking for more information. DB83's post #10 and #14 were made when I was cooking. I was asking for more information with my post #11. I wasn't intending for that to be my final post.

[Sharc]

Ok. Thanks for the capture.
The capture is interlaced, TFF (Top field first). It is rather noisy. When you encode it using DVDStyler without denoising it, the bitrate for a 2h30 minutes video on a 4.7GB DVD becomes too low for the noisy video, and the mpeg2 encoder is likely to produce blocking artifacts (macroblocking). That's what you apparently got.
You can improve it by
- denoising the capture before throwing it at DVDStyler
- splitting it into 2 files and put it on 2 DVD-5 to allow sufficient bitrate
- or use a DVD-9 instead of a DVD-5

Here your interlaced DVD authored with DVDStyler, with the denoised video (without audio for this demo):

[hello_hello]

The VHS video which is shot with those vintage camcorders. In my case I tried Yadif top field first and the resulting video is very jerky, and every movement of the camera is exaggerated. If you halve the temporal resolution and DVD requires 25/50, wouldn't that create an issue? What's the best deinterlacing method for VHS video to DVD considering framerate?

If you want to go from capture to DVD, leaving it interlaced is possibly the way to go.
There's reasons why DVD as the destination format may not always be a good idea though, and your video of the DVD being displayed on your TV might be an example of that. There's obviously a degree of horizontal stretching applied to fill a 16:9 screen with a 4:3 video, and the video seems to have some of the top and bottom cropped, probably to minimize the stretching.
The other option is to run the TV in 4:3 mode, assuming they still have one. In 4:3 mode the TV would add black bars each side so the video doesn't need to be stretched, and the TV would also hide the edges of the picture by over-scanning so you won't see the black at the sides or the noise top and bottom that you see on a computer display.

PAL VHS is 50 fields per second. There's no such thing as frames, at least not for analogue PAL. Each field consists of either the odd or even scan lines, which represent a different moment in time, and normally when watching a DVD, the player or TV would interpolate the fields into full frames. As each field becomes a full frame, the interlaced video is converted to 50 full frames per second as it's deinterlaced for viewing. If the video was de-interlaced to 25fps, which is an option for most software de-interlacers, you lose some temporal resolution. Video tends not to have as much motion blur as film, so when video is de-interlaced to 25fps it can look a little "jittery", but that also depends on the quality of the de-interlacer.

The video of your DVD player de-interlacing indicates, as jagabo said, the field order is wrong, so the picture is jerking back and forth instead of playing in the correct temporal order.

DVD supports progressive video but only at 25fps. If you want to de-interlace yourself, which is necessary if you want to resize the video (and often before applying filtering), another format might be a better option. Technically even for Bluray compliant video, the resolution must be at least 720p to support 50fps as the SD Bluray format is much the same as DVD.

Personally, I'd forget about DVD video and encode it as AVC while cropping, deinterlacing and resizing, so the encoded video should display correctly on any display or with any player capable of decoding it. Almost all Bluray players and TVs capable of playing video via a USB connection will happily play SD video at 50fps.

Here's some quick samples using Avisynth to process the video. Avisynth will require a bit of a learning curve if you haven't used it before, although there's GUI's for it.
Yadif de-interlacing is probably the sort of quality you'd expect from most hardware player de-interlacing.
QTGMC is a de-interlacing function for Avisynth. Not everyone likes it, but I wouldn't use anything else. The samples are all 50fps and have been resized to "square pixel" dimensions, so there's no need to worry about a player getting the resizing right.

[hello_hello]

Here your interlaced DVD authored with DVDStyler, with the denoised video (without audio for this demo):

What denoising filter did you use?
It looks better than I expected for interlaced video, and even Yadif de-interlaces the denoised version pretty well.

[Bwaak]

DVD supports progressive video but only at 25fps.

I am not sure about that. The whole "whether DVD-Video is natively interlaced or natively progressive format" is moot IMHO, as it supports both helped with flags. OTOH, I suppose if there are no flags at all, it is treated as native interlaced. So one can say that DVD-Video is an interlaced format at its core, which can also support progscan.

Regarding 25 fps being the only progscan format for DVD-Video, ten or so years ago I experimented, generating 24p, 24p with pulldown, and 25p in Vegas, then loading them into DVD Architect - it would re-encode the 25p clip for a 50 Hz project, but would not re-encode a 24p clip for 60 Hz project, which made me think that it was actually 24 fps that could be authored as true progscan. But maybe it was a quirk of the software.

When the HV20/HV30/HV40 came out, the NTSC version had 24F and 24P - one was native progressive, another in interlaced stream, but PAL version had only one type of 25 fps, and I think it was the natively interlaced one, which of course could be treated as progressive during editing, still it was not native per se.

Anyway, with flags and with a correct DVD player, progscan is not a problem on DVD-Video. 20 years ago Home Theater Hi-Fi did a great job on researching the topic and even, allegedly, influencing the manufacturers.