VCR won't output color in S-Video but will in composite

[Hamilthon]

Hi,
I'm currently trying to capture SECAM VHS tapes (I'm in France).
I currently use VirtualDub to capture the VHS, works like a charm.
My VCR is an Akai VS-G460 (Pro GX4) it's in great condition and works perfectly.
It has an SCART output, I plug an SCART adapter inside, which allows to output SCART to Composite/S-Video and vice-versa.
This kind of adapter : https://batterie-boutique.fr/media/image/41/95/41/2b8594f6-5630-4996-b2b9-66c3c95386ff-50312-tif.jpg

The cables are not faulty, neither is the adapter.

In VirtualDub, I could capture the color with composite but whenever I go into S-Video mode I can't.
Aside from that S-Video works on my Hi8 Camcorder and the S-Video outputs color.
To be sure the S-Video output works on my VCR I plugged it into my CRT and the S-Video outputs color.
I checked PAL_B, SECAM_B, SECAM_L. Nothing is colored in VirtualDub.

Where should I investigate ?

I looked around and some told it had to do with the NTSC playback on PAL VCRs.
My capture card is an August VGB100 by the way.

Thanks for considering

[Brad]

Unless your VCR has a menu setting to enable S-Video via SCART, it won't output S-Video via SCART. Only S-VHS machines will do this.

The CRT is probably decoding the fake "S-Video" signal as composite.

[Hamilthon]

I checked by unplugging the yellow composite cable to see if S-Video would output the image and it does.
The thing is as I get a black and white image on my VCR
while I have a full colored image by plugging my S-Video cable in my CRT.
(By using the same cable setup, S-Video plugged, nothing else.)

[themaster1]

like previously said if it's not a s-vhs deck (with a button or on the main menu to commute composite<>s-video on the euroscart) it's a lost cause.
Just use composite

[Hamilthon]

There must be a misunderstanding or am I wrong.
S-Video works, my VCR does output S-Video image, I can see that on my CRT, the image is displayed correctly in full color.
The problem is that I can't capture it, as my capture card doesn't capture the colors from the VCR (and does from Hi8, DV etc...)

[themaster1]

There is no misunderstanding, i am telling once again it's not a s-vhs deck therefore does not output a s-video (chroma/luma separated) signal (from the circuitry down to the euroscart (péritel)) therefore just use composite cable (yellow) and save yourself futile headaches.

[lollo]

The OP is confused because he sees an image on his CRT while using S-Video signal path, but Brad explained the reason in post #2 ("The CRT is probably decoding the fake "S-Video" signal as composite.")

[Alwyn]

I think what he really meant to say was the VCR outputs a Composite signal from the S-Video socket on the Scart, not S-Video.

[Hamilthon]

I just noticed I had written "S-VHS" but meant "S-Video" sorry

The OP is confused because he sees an image on his CRT while using S-Video signal path, but Brad explained the reason in post #2 ("The CRT is probably decoding the fake "S-Video" signal as composite.")

Now I understand, and that's why VirtualDub doesn't capture the color I assume, because the signal is misinterpreted.

I think what he really meant to say was the VCR outputs a Composite signal from the S-Video socket on the Scart, not S-Video.

So I assume I need an S-VHS deck or I'm stucked with composite for now.

Well, thanks for clearing up the discussion. I'll try to catch one of these someday.

Have a great day

[themaster1]

...Like S-video is the "miracle cable", héhé nope. Sorry to burst to bubble.
You want over average results with Secam in terms of colour rendition and sharp pics? Pick yourself a Toshiba Pro Drum vhs deck (or a Thomson_VTH_6250F ), you believe me you don't, ok either way. I don't know about this Akai though. S-video out is just a plus.

You can even notch it up with a tbc + proc amp

[The_Doman]

I think what he really meant to say was the VCR outputs a Composite signal from the S-Video socket on the Scart, not S-Video.

So I assume I need an S-VHS deck or I'm stucked with composite for now.

Well, thanks for clearing up the discussion. I'll try to catch one of these someday.

If you have an already good working regular VHS deck the improvements with a regular S-VHS (Without TBC) will be marginal i think.
But then again, almost any capture card will work better with a S-Video signal.
Also see this topic/post for possible options/opinions and SCART mentioned:
Is there anything better than a Dazzle DVC 103 in 2025?

[lollo]

If you have an already good working regular VHS deck the improvements with a regular S-VHS (Without TBC) will be marginal i think.

No. High-end S-VHS VCR are better because many aspects, not only their S-Video output. So, the improvement can be significant.

BTW, buying a S-VHS without TBC makes no sense to me.

[Sharc]

If you have an already good working regular VHS deck the improvements with a regular S-VHS (Without TBC) will be marginal i think.

No. High-end S-VHS VCR are better because many aspects, not only their S-Video output. So, the improvement can be significant.

BTW, buying a S-VHS without TBC makes no sense to me.

I agree as a general rule, yes (provided one finds such a device in good working condition).
There are exceptions to the rule though, depending on a particular tape and source quality.
All high-end VCRs I know of allow to disable the TBC (why?) with some vague hints in the manuals as to the "if". And sometimes one can obtain better/more stable captures by disabling the VCRs internal TBC (or use a simpler deck without TBC) and insert a DVD recorder in passthrough with its "TBC" instead. There are so many "it depends ...", and personal experiences, and pro's and con's ......

[lollo]

I agree as a general rule, yes
There are exceptions to the rule though, depending on a particular tape and source quality.

I agree 100%. But @The_Doman wrote a "generic" statement, so I corrected with a "general rule"

And sometimes one can obtain better/more stable captures by disabling the VCRs internal TBC (or use a simpler deck without TBC) and insert a DVD recorder in passthrough with its "TBC" instead.

Sure. But again, when using an external DVD-Recorder for stronger correction in specific cases, better feed it with a S-VHS with TBC disabled than a standard VCR. General rule

[Alwyn]

High-end S-VHS VCR with TBC are better because many aspects, not only their S-Video output. So, the improvement can be significant.

BTW, buying a S-VHS without TBC makes no sense to me.

That doesn't make sense. Did you mean to add in the red text?

Or do you consider an S-VHS VCR without TBC "low end"?

The reason I ask is because where I am, the occasional S-VHS machine does come up for sale, but never one with a TBC. You are implying if it hasn't got a TBC, don't bother with any S-VHS VCR, so we should just stick with a normal VCR.

[lollo]

Did you mean to add in the red text?

No. S-VHS VCRs without TBC are better than VHS VCR. General rule.

Or do you consider an S-VHS VCR without TBC "low end"?

As I wrote, buying a S-VHS VCR without TBC is not an option imo. While there to improve the hardware, better do it completely.

The reason I ask is because where I am, the occasional S-VHS machine does come up for sale, but never one with a TBC. You are implying if it hasn't got a TBC, don't bother with any S-VHS VCR, so we should just stick with a normal VCR.

VCR < S-VHS VCR < S-VHS VCR with TBC

As we said, YMMV

[themaster1]

It's totally an option to buy a good regular vcr especially for secam tapes. There are no svhs decks( that i know of) that support secam on the tbc side. Good Dvd recorders correct jitter just as good (assuming Pal in, transcoding sec>pal). Jvc svhs decks are subpar for secam decoding (got 2 top of the line) decent for pal. I have tested/ repaired/ serviced something like 30 vcrs the past 2 years as a (fun) hobby.i know some.

[lollo]

There are no svhs decks( that i know of) that support secam on the tbc side.

Correct, unfortunately. Mine were generic considerations, Secam tapes are a problem (and I have many of them).

[rgr]

I just noticed I had written "S-VHS" but meant "S-Video" sorry

The OP is confused because he sees an image on his CRT while using S-Video signal path, but Brad explained the reason in post #2 ("The CRT is probably decoding the fake "S-Video" signal as composite.")

Now I understand, and that's why VirtualDub doesn't capture the color I assume, because the signal is misinterpreted.

I think what he really meant to say was the VCR outputs a Composite signal from the S-Video socket on the Scart, not S-Video.

So I assume I need an S-VHS deck or I'm stucked with composite for now.

Well, thanks for clearing up the discussion. I'll try to catch one of these someday.

Have a great day

You can use what you have. In fact, the difference between S-Video and composite isn't noticeable with regular (non-SVHS) material. A good VCR is much more important.