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  1. On my old HTPC through VGA, when Windows put the screen to sleep (disabling output to the cable I suppose), the TV would say "No signal" for about 10 seconds then put itself to sleep (so that I didn't have to turn the TV off).

    Now that I've replaced that old HTPC with a new one that outputs through HDMI (v1.3 Full HD, video+sound, all I need), now when Windows puts the "screen" to sleep, the TV persistently says "No signal" and will not put itself to sleep. Even overnight it'll stay like that. I can't tell exactly how Windows (10 now but 10 and 7 for the old HTPC) handles disabling output for HDMI or VGA cables... and I can't tell if what's keeping the TV from sleeping has to do with Windows, the cable, or the TV.

    TV screen sleep also doesn't happen with the DVD player composite cable connection when the DVD is powered off (with it on, it just shows its manufacturer logo, but regardless the DVD player times out and powers itself off after about 10 minutes of inactivity). With my PS4 HDMI connection (in any port), when I put it in Rest Mode, the PS4 will disable output to the TV but the TV will stay in No Signal Detected forever. I'm having trouble finding anything in the manual on how to get the TV to just put its screen to sleep when there's no connection after a while. Even just 10 minutes of telling me No Signal would be fine if it would just Go The F To Sleep.

    Anyway, I haven't tested every possible combination with every device I own, but my guess is there's some setting I have to trigger to get it to sleep after timeout of no signal, I'm just not finding it in the manual, and my remote's OK button stopped working long ago hah so it's tricky changing settings until I fix that or replace it.

    Have you run into this on any of your TVs? My TV is Samsung, an old Series 5 (550). Is there something about HDMI or VGA or composite etc that determines whether TVs can tell when to go to sleep or not?
    Last edited by vidahera; 3rd Aug 2022 at 11:39.
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    My 2015 Samsung smart TV has a feature called "No Signal Power Off" that causes the TV to turn off if there is no signal from the currently selected input/device for a user-specified period of time. It is under MENU > System > Eco Solution

    Otherwise... HDMI includes the ability to turn a TV off/on via CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) when a connected device is turned on/off. Samsung calls its version of CEC "Anynet+". Unfortunately, few PCs provide a way to allow CEC to control a TV. Composite video doesn't provide a way to signal a TV to turn on/off on its own.
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  3. I did find the AnyNet+ option in settings, and all it had was enable/disable, and a feature to turn off the PC when the TV turns off, which is not what I want, but doesn't work anyway.

    I went through every page of the manual (85+), and found nothing about the TV screen going to sleep for any source, VGA or otherwise.

    It appears the TV software just only works right with screen sleep through its VGA connector. This seems like either a bug, a design flaw, or a feature oversight, so now I need to figure out if I can get any software upgrade to make screen sleep work sensibly.
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    Originally Posted by vidahera View Post
    I did find the AnyNet+ option in settings, and all it had was enable/disable, and a feature to turn off the PC when the TV turns off, which is not what I want, but doesn't work anyway.
    That is no surprise. Very few PCs are able to use CEC.

    Originally Posted by vidahera View Post
    I went through every page of the manual (85+), and found nothing about the TV screen going to sleep for any source, VGA or otherwise.
    Your TV was probably released before Samsung added the energy-saving "No Signal Power Off" feature to its TVs.

    Originally Posted by vidahera View Post
    ...so now I need to figure out if I can get any software upgrade to make screen sleep work sensibly.
    TVs and monitors may look similar but TVs are not monitors and monitors are not TVs. TVs usually lack some features that monitors typically have and monitors always lack many features that nearly all TVs have.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 4th Aug 2022 at 11:12.
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  5. I still would like to know what the difference is with HDMI and VGA when it comes to a TV knowing when to sleep from "No signal".

    While my HDMI PC cable is v1.3, I've read that some of them don't have a "sense wires" or something... which I'm not able to find info on yet.
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    Originally Posted by vidahera View Post
    I still would like to know what the difference is with HDMI and VGA when it comes to a TV knowing when to sleep from "No signal".
    HDMI can be connected to many devices that are not PCs, for example, game systems, cable boxes, satellite receivers, audio receivers, streaming boxes, Blu-ray players, and DVD players.

    On the other hand, I can't think of any devices that would use VGA to connect to a TV other than a PC. Since VGA on a TV is a dedicated connection for PCs, this behavior was probably an intentional choice on the part of Samsung's engineers, not an accident.

    Originally Posted by vidahera View Post
    While my HDMI PC cable is v1.3, I've read that some of them don't have a "sense wires" or something... which I'm not able to find info on yet.
    The only pins that later HDMI versions use that HDMI 1.3 doesn't use are the pins assigned to ARC (Audio Return Channel) and Ethernet.
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  7. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Many modern devices have the "sleep after x minutes of no signal" regardless of input type. But if yours was prior to that becoming common, there is not much cheap that I can suggest. There are switchers that can do CEC or a blank screen for you, but they are commercial grade ($$).

    Scott
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  8. @usually_quiet

    > Since VGA on a TV is a dedicated connection for PCs, this behavior was probably an intentional choice

    The manual treats a PC connection from VGA and HDMI the same way... as a connection from a PC. It states nothing about no-signal screen timeout. The behavior between VGA and HDMI in relation to screen timeout is inconsistent. I don't see why that would be an intentional choice; why would a Samsung engineer want the screen to timeout with VGA but not HDMI? Would you want that? Why would you want screen to not timeout when HDMI signal is disconnected? I'm just trying to find a logical basis and conclusion for your assumption... could it be that maybe there's something different about HDMI that makes the TV think it SHOULD stay awake during No Signal from HDMI indefinitely?! If so, I'd like to know that detail... maybe I need to post on an HDMI forum...

    > The only pins that later HDMI versions use that HDMI 1.3 doesn't use are the pins assigned to ARC (Audio Return Channel) and Ethernet.

    I think you're talking about numbered versions greater than 1.3, not certain cables of versions 1.3 that have some extra pins or something. I'm using version 1.3, I don't see any reason to use a greater version because the TV is not 4K and has no extra features through the connection that I care about. I was wondering if there were certain sub-versions of HDMI cables of version 1.3 that had something extra that I needed to hunt down to tell the TV OK GO THE F TO SLEEP.
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  9. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Many modern devices have the "sleep after x minutes of no signal" regardless of input type. But if yours was prior to that becoming common, there is not much cheap that I can suggest. There are switchers that can do CEC or a blank screen for you, but they are commercial grade ($$).

    Scott
    That doesn't explain why the TV goes to sleep after seconds of showing "No signal" from the VGA connection. So the feature is there, but for some reason doesn't happen with HDMI connection (or composite connection either, incidentally).

    If it's the HDMI cable's fault, which type of version 1.3 cable do I need to get?

    Also, the screen won't sleep with any of the HDMI inputs regardless of which device is connected... this is just a giant mystery to me now.
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    Originally Posted by vidahera View Post
    @usually_quiet

    > Since VGA on a TV is a dedicated connection for PCs, this behavior was probably an intentional choice

    The manual treats a PC connection from VGA and HDMI the same way... as a connection from a PC. It states nothing about no-signal screen timeout. The behavior between VGA and HDMI in relation to screen timeout is inconsistent. I don't see why that would be an intentional choice; why would a Samsung engineer want the screen to timeout with VGA but not HDMI? Would you want that? Why would you want screen to not timeout when HDMI signal is disconnected? I'm just trying to find a logical basis and conclusion for your assumption... could it be that maybe there's something different about HDMI that makes the TV think it SHOULD stay awake during No Signal from HDMI indefinitely?! If so, I'd like to know that detail... maybe I need to post on an HDMI forum...
    You need a different TV with the "sleep after x minutes of no signal" feature. I don't think there is much chance that an update will make your current TV behave like a monitor when it is connected to a PC via HDMI.

    I don't think the "sleep after x minutes of no signal" function existed in ye olden days before smart TVs. Most people either had to turn off their TV manually or set the TV's sleep timer to turn the TV off at a specific hour.

    Originally Posted by vidahera View Post
    > The only pins that later HDMI versions use that HDMI 1.3 doesn't use are the pins assigned to ARC (Audio Return Channel) and Ethernet.

    I think you're talking about numbered versions greater than 1.3, not certain cables of versions 1.3 that have some extra pins or something. I'm using version 1.3, I don't see any reason to use a greater version because the TV is not 4K and has no extra features through the connection that I care about. I was wondering if there were certain sub-versions of HDMI cables of version 1.3 that had something extra that I needed to hunt down to tell the TV OK GO THE F TO SLEEP.
    Technically, a version number always refers to an HDMI connection and technically, HDMI cables should be rated for "speed" or bandwidth instead.

    It is very unlikely that your problem has anything to do with the cable. TVs only have Type A HDMI connections. All Type A HDMI connections have the same number of pins (19) and the number of connected wires should always correspond to the number of pins. If some pins are not connected, you have a defective cable or an exceptionally crappy dollar-store cable where the manufacturer cut corners to reduce costs by not connecting pins that were not yet assigned a function.
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  11. Use a smart power strip that will automatically turn off other outlets when the device on the master outlet is turned off (or enters a very low power state, ie, sleep). For example:

    https://www.amazon.com/Sunbeam-Advance-Outlet-Strips-Protector/dp/B07K3ZLMP7

    Some have an adjustable master threshold control that lets you specify how low a current causes the other outputs to switch off.
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    Also, to be clear, the HDMI pinouts have not changed, in designation or in number, since v1.0.
    Yes, speed and features have changed, but that is in the protocol & signalling payload, which is basically determined strictly by the chipsets/programming logic of sender (source) & receiver (sink) devices.

    It may not be consistent with your outlook on how devices should work, but I find usually_quiet's supposition that it was an intentional special feature put in at the time by Samsung's engineers to be pretty plausible, and I have seen plenty of inconsistencies between various ports' features on displays. Witness that a device can have 2 HDMI ports, with one labelled "HDMI1" or something, and the other labelled "PC", "HDMI2 (PC)" or similar, and it is not uncommon to see the PC input automatically have 1:1 pixel mapping, but the standard HDMI input(s) NOT, where they will need to have the zoom setting manually modified to get the equivalent.

    Scott
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    From what I have been able to find out on my own using a search engine, TVs, in general, don't have the ability to enter a reduced-power sleep or standby mode as monitors do. Instead, the TV either remains on, or if it has a "No Signal Power Off" feature, and that feature is activated, the TV turns itself off if the timer expires with no signal present.
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  14. @usually_quiet

    > I don't think the "sleep after x minutes of no signal" function existed in ye olden days before smart TVs.

    But it does exist, as I stated it happened on the last PC through the VGA connection. It just isn't triggering for HDMI and composite cable inputs for some reason. Please I don't want to have to keep stating these things ��

    If the TV only does it for the VGA input, then I suppose I get get an adapter for the HDMI to VGA, but then I have to run an audio cable out, and I apparently had problems with that on the last PC where 5.1 audio would not output properly through stereo, so that dialogue was quiet compared to other noises like explosions etc... that's a whole other rabbit hole I don't want to have to go down again, as I haven't had to enable Loudness Equalization so far (like I did on the last PC).

    I tried downloading Samsung's software for the TV, and it shows version 1005 and 1006 (it's confusing on whether I need to install both in order or just one), and my TV settings say it's on version 1008... which makes no freaking sense to me. Maybe I will bikeshed my way up to purchasing Samsung then I can find out how this works (/sarc).

    > It is very unlikely that your problem has anything to do with the cable.

    Thanks for clarifying. I figured the cable or its version wasn't the issue. I just couldn't figure out if the cable was somehow sending a signal that the TV was misinterpreting and continually keeping awake.

    @jagabo

    > Use a smart power strip that will automatically turn off other outlets when the device on the master outlet is turned off ...

    I already have one of those, and the reason I'm not trying that solution is because the point is that I don't want the TV to turn off (requiring an extra step to power it back on), I just want it to put itself to sleep for HDMI and composite cable inputs like it did with VGA.

    I think the TV was misdesigned, and only sleeps for VGA. I'm really disappointed in Samsung for this. Behavior that should be automatic for all inputs but only is for one makes no sense when they all give the same "No signal" message. Regardless, likely their newer TVs behave more properly with this. I'll upgrade when I have to. Thankfully, it has a screen-dimming timeout option which at least doesn't look as bad, and the box moves around, and I think both of these features keep burn-in from happening.
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  15. @Cornucopia

    > ... the protocol & signalling payload, which is basically determined strictly by the chipsets/programming logic of sender (source) & receiver (sink) devices

    See, now this makes me think again that Windows is sending some signal to the TV that is being misinterpreted as "keep awake" even though the TV is constantly saying "No signal"... obviously those are mixed logical signals to the user when "No signal" puts the screen to sleep on VGA after some minutes.

    How do I detect if Windows or the PC is sending some strange signal to the TV causing it to be confused and keep the screen from sleeping while telling me "No signal" is detected? Something isn't making sense here.

    > It may not be consistent with your outlook on how devices should work, but I find usually_quiet's supposition that it was an intentional special feature put in at the time by Samsung's engineers to be pretty plausible ...

    What?! How does it make sense that the screen says "No signal" for VGA, HDMI, and composite, but only sleeps on VGA? Who doesn't want their TV to sleep on ANY input having no signal...? You're saying Samsung techs wanted that? Why would they? Don't you think it's more plausible this is a design flaw or a bug somewhere that I don't how to address yet?

    > ... and I have seen plenty of inconsistencies between various ports' features on displays.

    Port inconsistency happens, I know; I just can't figure out why here, or how to fix it yet. That doesn't mean it's more plausible that the inconsistency was designed this way than it's just a design flaw (which is an oversight) or bug �� I'm just not the type to say "they're smarter than us at this so they must have intended it" if that's where you're coming from.

    > Witness that a device can have 2 HDMI ports, with one labelled "HDMI1" or something, and the other labelled "PC", "HDMI2 (PC)" or similar, and it is not uncommon to see the PC input automatically have 1:1 pixel mapping, but the standard HDMI input(s) NOT, where they will need to have the zoom setting manually modified to get the equivalent.

    My TV has HDMI1, HDMI2/DVI (which is what the manual recommends for PC input), HDMI3, VGA, component, and composite inputs. Actually I've been misnaming the component as "composite" �� (it's been so long since I've handled either that I forgot), so it's the component input that's also not being put to sleep, though my guess is the composite one will behave the same way.

    See my previous reply about how I set the TV settings to assign its "PC" input to the HDMI port (which is technically called the HDMI2/DVI port there, I just haven't explicitly stated that because I didn't need to). When I had it plugged into HDMI1, the TV still wouldn't sleep. So there's no confusion for me on ports or which to use.

    The issue is the TV will only sleep on VGA, not HDMI or component inputs for some reason. This is what is vexing me.
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  16. @usually_quiet

    > TVs, in general, don't have the ability to enter a reduced-power sleep or standby mode

    This is idiotic. Why would manufacturers make monitors behave sensibly with no signal but not TVs? Are you sure there's just not some technological tick with non-VGA inputs? That also doesn't make sense to me (since it just sends an analog video signal), so I'm not seeing the reason why the TV is not behaving consistently. I don't buy the argument that the designers intended it this way without a technical reason we should be able to determine somewhere.

    Something being common doesn't mean it's justified; why would any TV owner want their TV constantly stating there's no signal rather than it just going to sleep? This is how computer monitors behave, and we're used to those; why wouldn't TVs do this especially when they've been around longer?

    The logic is inconsistent, even just looking at it from a human usability perspective. Do you know anyone that would prefer their TV constantly saying "No signal"? Why would they want that but not for their computer monitors? There's no sensible way to explain this without knowing what technical reason it does it for.
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    @vidahera If you want a display for your HTPC that acts exactly like a monitor, get a monitor. I'm done here. Goodbye and good luck.
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  18. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    @vidahera If you want a display for your HTPC that acts exactly like a monitor, get a monitor. I'm done here. Goodbye and good luck.
    LOL I guess you're not fully reading or understanding what I said, and there's no reason you should be upset either ��

    I left my points but apparently you/some/most/all think the nonsensical behavior is fine or sensible or justified just because it's happening or common in your/their experience... people or things being dumb is not inherent justification for them. I left my points for consideration and commentary but apparently that's beyond you.

    Anyway, the solution is not "just get a monitor"; my TV is almost 50" and I need inputs for things other than a computer, but apparently you forgot how often I stated the other inputs. I was hoping someone would say "Oh, yah, I actually know why the manufacturer did this", or "I've troubleshooted this and found this solution, or there is no solution, I've tried everything", or "Yes I at least understand how the behavior is nonsensical, maybe the manufacturer or tech team made a design flaw or a bug", but... I guess that's outside of your range of possibilities or ability to even state. I don't know, pride's a hard thing to swallow I guess. I'm perfectly fine admitting that a manufacturer or tech team did something dumb.

    So, I've found the software to download and install, to try to fix the issue, or see if I get a settings option to enable "Yes actually put the screen to sleep for all inputs when there's no signal after some reasonable amount of time", but the versions they have for download are 1005 or 1006 (and they don't state why there's two there, or which to install, or in which order), and my version states 1008... there's of course a risk that installing this software makes something worse... which I'm sure someone here could have already comprehended... so I was also curious of anyone's experience with that with Samsung TVs at least... not necessarily all of these exact details... which I shouldn't even have to state...

    So, you know, I assume we're somewhat tech-y people here, and that we like trying to solve tech problems with our video devices, so I was hoping there would be more of that attitude here, but if the end result of this is someone just saying something as simple-minded and ignorant and dismissive as "just get a monitor", then either I'm giving the people on this site too much credit or you're in way over your head on this thread. I appreciate you opting yourself out of it though, I'll only care to read anything actually constructive you or anyone here has to say about it (like tech people should be doing, focusing on troubleshooting, not taking things personally).
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    You are the one taking things personally. I got tired of dealing with someone who doesn't want to accept what he/she is being told (and not just by me) -- that TVs, especially older ones like yours that have a dedicated VGA port for connecting PCs, are not designed with the idea that buyers would permanently connect the TV to a computer using HDMI and it should therefore automatically go sleep when there is no signal. BTW there are gaming monitors larger than 50 inches, although they are not cheap. Also, analog video connections are rapidly disappearing from new TVs, so you had best get used to the idea that your next TV may not have any.

    It is doubtful that you will make the TV work the way you want by updating its software but maybe you will be lucky and avoid bricking your TV in the process of finding that out for yourself.
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  20. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    The place to find out whether a firmware update is appropriate for your device is the manufacturer.
    They should know:
    1) whether that or other firmware actually deals with the issue you are encountering
    2) if that firmware is the most up-to-date/least-buggy
    3) if it is beneficial to your device in other ways, or not
    4) how to apply the firmware update and in what order

    In general, however, firmware revisions INCREASE, not decrease, and (usually) are consecutive. Sometimes they are cumulative, sometimes not.

    If you already have v1008 on your device, then a v1005 or v1006 would be a decrease or downgrade of the firmware. Unless there was an explicit bug or loss of former capability in your version, there is almost NO reason to downgrade, and plenty of reasons not to.

    ***********

    You think the manufacturer did something dumb/idotic, but it makes sense to me, given the age of the TV.

    BTW, what does the manufacturer actually say about this in the manual? I tried to find one, but all I can find of "Series 5 (550)" models are ones that do not even have a VGA input.


    Scott
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    ... and while we are at it, Scott gave you a suggestion about switchers that can do CEC or a blank screen for you. It doesn't look like you asked any questions about that.
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