Problems Digitizing VHS Cassettes...

[Kong]

Hello. I’m sure this has been discussed before, and I noticed some threads here. But, none seem to be recent (within the past year or so).

I have a VidBox, and as far as I know, I have the latest software for it. I’m running this with a 2020 MBP (dual-core 2GHz i5s, 16GB pf RAM).

Over the past year and a half to two years, I notice periodic / occasional "hiccups" in the playback. Basically, the audio continues along unaffected, but for a second or so, the video will actually stop. One second later, it will resume, but not where it left off (which is good because then it would be out of sync with the audio), but rather the video resumes about where it would have been had it never been interrupted. (I can upload a file that demonstrates this problem, if anyone needs to see it.)

The VidBox is connected to a TB3 port, via a TB3 / USB adaptor (type A USB? whichever is the wide, rectangular species of USB).

My question is: Is there a way to get a better result using my set-up, or do I need to purchase something new? Bear in mind a new laptop is not realistic at this time. But, I am open to hearing digitizer options -- unless, again, there's a way to make the VidBox perform better.

Thank you!

[VWestlife]

The "hiccups" are due to the VidBox's lack of a time base corrector (TBC). Searching that phrase will turn up all sorts of stern warnings why you absolutely need one, and why anyway not using one when capturing from analog videotape should be tarred and feathered.

[Kong]

Hmm... Could you recommend a device that has this feature? Although if I’m covered with tar and feathers, I may need someone to perform the labor as well.

[VWestlife]

None are cheap, unless you use the passthrough mode of a DVD recorder as an ersatz TBC.

Or you can just use the DVD recorder for its intended purpose, and the rip the disc on your computer.

And if you're capturing from a Super VHS-C or Hi8 camcorder, most of those have a built-in TBC. Some later/nicer VHS-C camcorders have one as well.

[Kong]

Alright... what are the non-cheap options, and what would be an approximate price range?

I’ve been looking at YouTube videos on this, but they’re recommending the El Gato (among other devices), and I’ve not read great things about it. Also, they recommend an S-VHS deck with TBC. On eBay, they’re going for $200 to $300 (some, way beyond, and while those are outside consideration, I would consider a $250 model).

What are your thoughts on this?

[The_Doman]

I have a VidBox, and as far as I know, I have the latest software for it. I’m running this with a 2020 MBP (dual-core 2GHz i5s, 16GB pf RAM).

What "VidBox" model do you have exactly?

Over the past year and a half to two years, I notice periodic / occasional "hiccups" in the playback.

As already mentioned, probably it is the "unstabilized" signal from the VHS source.
You have the problem with all or certain tapes?
Always a good test is to do captures with another known stable analogue source if you have that available like cable box/DVD output etc.

My question is: Is there a way to get a better result using my set-up, or do I need to purchase something new? Bear in mind a new laptop is not realistic at this time. But, I am open to hearing digitizer options -- unless, again, there's a way to make the VidBox perform better.

I don't know the capabilities of the "VidBox" and what VHS player you are using but the DVD recorder pass-through option as "ersatz TBC" almost always will improve your captures a lot without too much cost/risk.

What are your thoughts on this?

Some recent discussions:

Good VCRs with auto tracking

Now with good working S-VHS machines getting more and more difficult/expensive to find/get it is often much more feasible and flexible to use the DVD pass-thru option with a good working regular VCR.

Panasonic DVD recorder passthrough settings (DMR-ES10, DMR-ES15, DMR-ES25)

But a known problem with those, not only Panasonic, older devices are failing capacitors causing the device to fail/operating normally.
I have several Panasonic DMR ES/EH recorders here (thrift/flea/car boot sale etc) including 1 DMR-ES10 set aside for later repair because the capacitors need replacing.
I always check first the inside for a visual indication of the capacitors when getting/finding a new recorder.
Some examples in this topic:
Panasonic ES10 display very low

[rgr]

A VCR with TBC is a great solution (just avoid JVC), but a DVD recorder will also suffice. Another option is to use a miniDV or Digital8 camcorder with a video input and transfer the footage via FireWire. In this case, you don't even need a VCR with TBC.

[Kong]

A VCR with TBC is a great solution (just avoid JVC), but a DVD recorder will also suffice. Another option is to use a miniDV or Digital8 camcorder with a video input and transfer the footage via FireWire. In this case, you don't even need a VCR with TBC.

I do have a Canon HDV30 from 2008 that still functions. Actually, I have two. But, I do not have a FW port — except on a MacPro tower that I cannot currently boot into.

To answer some questions:

It has occurred on multiple tapes and through two VCRs.

I do not know the VidBox version, I bought it in... 2020 I believe?



There are FW800 to TB adaptors, yes? But... do they impede the signal at all?

Re: Making DVDs.. My objections to this are that I’d need a DVD recorder, and is not the file compressed rather appreciably?

[VWestlife]

I do have a Canon HDV30 from 2008 that still functions. Actually, I have two.

If you mean the Canon HV30, it can do a fine job of digitization, via its DV passthrough mode.

I do not know the VidBox version, I bought it in... 2020 I believe?

Doesn't really matter, they're all basically a glorified EasyCap, based on an Empia chip.

There are FW800 to TB adaptors, yes? But... do they impede the signal at all?

No, it's lossless. But a bigger problem for you may be that as of Tahoe, Mac OS has dropped support for FireWire.

Re: Making DVDs.. My objections to this are that I’d need a DVD recorder, and is not the file compressed rather appreciably?

Yes, much less so than what you get from the software the VidBox comes with.

You can get these self-contained Sony "DVDirect" recorders all day long for $15 - $20 because nobody cares about them, but I think they're an absolute steal in terms if the quality you get out of them:
VHS to DVD without a PC - Sony DVDirect VRD-MC5

[cholla]

I have not recorded VHS to DVD for a long time.
I never had a VCR with TBC so I can't say how well those work.
I do still have a working combo Magnavox connected to a TV.
So if I need to play a VHS I can.
That being said. I watched the video,
I wanted to see what it said about Macrovision.
Basically the video said:"Buy the commercial DVD if you run into Macrovision".
I have a Dimax Grex digital video stabilizer & Macrovision remover.
This device always worked well for me.

Devices like this are usually frowned on by the "own & use a VCR with a TBC" crowd.
Like in VWestlife's post#2.

[Kong]

If you mean the Canon HV30, it can do a fine job of digitization, via its DV passthrough mode.

Yes… I was unaware of this mode / functionality, but I always wondered that, if I never put a cassette inside, could I still just pass a signal — either a live shooting or from a connected VCR — into a computer?

No, it's lossless. But a bigger problem for you may be that as of Tahoe, Mac OS has dropped support for FireWire.

Well, I was less worried about compression, and more concerned with actual interference and signal limitation because of the adaptor being “in the way”. It’s one more step the data stream has to go through.

As for Tahoe, I am still on OS 15.7.4. So, one other reason not to “upgrade”.

Yes, much less so than what you get from the software the VidBox comes with.

Hmm… really. And, as someone suggested, I could rip the DVDs and just save the QT files.

You can get these self-contained Sony "DVDirect" recorders all day long for $15 - $20 because nobody cares about them, but I think they're an absolute steal in terms if the quality you get out of them:
VHS to DVD without a PC - Sony DVDirect VRD-MC5

Holy crap that’s cheap. I guess streaming’s made everything else near-obsolete (personally, I prefer hard media). Although, that'll be almost 200 DVDs I'd have to burn... unless I can continuously burn a DVD-RW...

Thank you for all that. Not bad for someone who wanted to turn me into a chicken!


[Attachment 93182 - Click to enlarge]

It seems the cheapest option for me would be the FW800 to TB adaptor... assuming I have software that would recognize the camera. Crap... that’s another potential problem. Anyone know anything about that?

[VWestlife]

Yes… I was unaware of this mode / functionality, but I always wondered that, if I never put a cassette inside, could I still just pass a signal — either a live shooting or from a connected VCR — into a computer?

Yes, that's how the DV passthrough mode works. Canon called it "AV -> DV" mode:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/275535/Canon-Vixia-Hv30.html?page=74#manual

It seems the cheapest option for me would be the FW800 to TB adaptor... assuming I have software that would recognize the camera. Crap... that’s another potential problem. Anyone know anything about that?

Use QuickTime 7.x Pro (registration code available online) and set its recording quality to "device native".

[Kong]

Dude... thanks.

Now, the search for a good adaptor. I found this article:

https://www.recordingbase.com/how-to-convert-firewire-to-usb-c-thunderbolt/

[rgr]

Dude... thanks.

Now, the search for a good adaptor. I found this article:

https://www.recordingbase.com/how-to-convert-firewire-to-usb-c-thunderbolt/

For the FW-to-USB adapter to work, the camera must support it. Only a few Sony models are capable of this.

[Kong]

For the FW-to-USB adapter to work, the camera must support it. Only a few Sony models are capable of this.

Well, we’re talking FW-to-TB3. Or... is TB a species of USB?

[rgr]

For the FW-to-USB adapter to work, the camera must support it. Only a few Sony models are capable of this.

Well, we’re talking FW-to-TB3. Or... is TB a species of USB?

Since it was hard to do with USB, I doubt it would be better with TB.
It's better to invest in a laptop with FireWire, capture it, and then sell it.

[Kong]

It's better to invest in a laptop with FireWire, capture it, and then sell it.

That's actually not a bad idea. I used to have a 2010 MBP that I would capture video with. The OS and hardware ought to be compatible -- if I could find a working one.

I seem to have 4 options:

1. Buy an old (and hopefully working) machine with FW...

2. Buy a DVD burner (but also need to purchase a few hundred blank discs)...

3. Fix up my 2010 MacPro tower (which will try my patience as I need to do a few things to it)...

4. Purchase an S-VHS player with TBC.

All of these are going to require an estimated $200 to $300, with the exception of 3.

Thanks guys. I got a real education from this thread. ’Preciate it.

[rgr]

1. Buy an old (and hopefully working) machine with FW...

And with SSD drive.

2. Buy a DVD burner (but also need to purchase a few hundred blank discs)...

Bad option.
But the DVD burner was only supposed to be used as a passthrough.

[Kong]

And with SSD drive.

On that note... I am thinking, if I go this route, a 2008-2010 MBP, perhaps running Snow Leopard since that version had a version of iMovie that could “see” the Vixia HV30. This, according to ChatGPT, though I do recall capturing video with that laptop (just don’t recall the OS or iMovie version I last used with it).

Bad option.
But the DVD burner was only supposed to be used as a passthrough.

A “pass-through” option. Holy crap. Umm... Would it not need a TB2 or 3 output?? I have ditched my VidBox device... perhaps a bit prematurely?

For those following this, I’ve decided against the S-VHS player with TBC, since I cannot seem to find one below $US700. And, my MacPro tower, a machine capable of handling this, needs some work and that will take longer than I want to wait (but, I have not completely closed the door on this option).

Thanks to everyone here who’s stuck with this and has patiently offered help.

[rgr]

And with SSD drive.

On that note... I am thinking, if I go this route, a 2008-2010 MBP, perhaps running Snow Leopard since that version had a version of iMovie that could “see” the Vixia HV30. This, according to ChatGPT, though I do recall capturing video with that laptop (just don’t recall the OS or iMovie version I last used with it).

Just buy a laptop with Windows - there's a lot of software there to support FW.

Bad option.
But the DVD burner was only supposed to be used as a passthrough.

A “pass-through” option. Holy crap. Umm... Would it not need a TB2 or 3 output?? I have ditched my VidBox device... perhaps a bit prematurely?

For those following this, I’ve decided against the S-VHS player with TBC, since I cannot seem to find one below $US700. And, my MacPro tower, a machine capable of handling this, needs some work and that will take longer than I want to wait (but, I have not completely closed the door on this option).

I don't know VidBox, I don't know which decent grabber will work on Mac on TB3, I can't help here.

[The_Doman]

A “pass-through” option. Holy crap. Umm... Would it not need a TB2 or 3 output?? I have ditched my VidBox device... perhaps a bit prematurely?

Really?
I had (wrongly) assumed you read some of the earlier linked topics here.
And "ditched", you mean you not have it anymore?

[Kong]

A “pass-through” option. Holy crap. Umm... Would it not need a TB2 or 3 output?? I have ditched my VidBox device... perhaps a bit prematurely?

Really?
I had (wrongly) assumed you read some of the earlier linked topics here.
And "ditched", you mean you not have it anymore?

Yeah, I screwed up. I read through some of that too fast. And, yes, the device is gone.

[Kong]

Just buy a laptop with Windows - there's a lot of software there to support FW.

Actually have a Win11 tower. Use it for 3D. Just would have to buy a FW card.


[quote]

I don't know VidBox, I don't know which decent grabber will work on Mac on TB3, I can't help here.

Oh, that’s fine. You’ve been very helpful.


It’s good that there are options, I just need to decide which is the least painful.

[The_Doman]

Just buy a laptop with Windows - there's a lot of software there to support FW.

Actually have a Win11 tower. Use it for 3D. Just would have to buy a FW card.

If you really want to go the fire-wire route.
Getting an older laptop with fire-wire can be much more convenient, also for regular USB capturing.

Can't capture DV no matter what I try.

Another possible option for capturing/recording is to get an older/refurb (business) laptop with firewire.
Often they can be acquired very cheaply, at least here in my (PAL) country The Netherlands.
I have a few Dell Latitude e6410's which work flawlessly capturing from camera/DV converters with ScenalyzerLive and Windows 7/10/11.
It uses the Ricoh OHCI 1394 firewire chipset.
Having a separate PC/laptop for capturing is very convenient without having to use/change your main system.

Also when using firewire i still warn people against the so called "hot-plugging".

And be careful when connecting firewire devices to a PC.
Specially the firewire with Sony camcorders are prone to get damaged when connected to a working PC.
Best to connect everything when powered off.

[lollo]

Alright... what are the non-cheap options, and what would be an approximate price range?

I’ve been looking at YouTube videos on this, but they’re recommending the El Gato (among other devices), and I’ve not read great things about it. Also, they recommend an S-VHS deck with TBC. On eBay, they’re going for $200 to $300 (some, way beyond, and while those are outside consideration, I would consider a $250 model).

What are your thoughts on this?

The most important device in the capture chain is the player, among with the conditions of the tapes. Yes, a high-end S-VHS VCR with TBC is recommended. The capture device comes later.

[Kong]

If you really want to go the fire-wire route.
Getting an older laptop with fire-wire can be much more convenient, also for regular USB capturing.

This is what I was thinking, but @rgr recommended against it. No huge difference between the two solutions. Either requires the purchase of something. The only issue with buying an older laptop is being sure that the onboard software recognizes my camera. AFAIK, 2010-ish Macs running Snow Leopard-era OSes (give or take a few years), should have a version of iMovie that can see the camera. But... I’m going to try to get my MacPro tower up and running before I try that. If that can get done, then I’ll break out the Vixia HV30 and go on from there.

Thanks all.

[rgr]

The most important device in the capture chain is the player

The most important device in the chain is the weakest one. That includes the user.

[rgr]

If you really want to go the fire-wire route.
Getting an older laptop with fire-wire can be much more convenient, also for regular USB capturing.

This is what I was thinking, but @rgr recommended against it. No huge difference between the two solutions. Either requires the purchase of something. The only issue with buying an older laptop is being sure that the onboard software recognizes my camera

That is precisely what I am recommending - an older laptop with FireWire. It has to be an older model, because new ones no longer have FireWire. If it is to be used for capturing via USB, it also needs a good processor (for on-the-fly compression).

Any Windows laptop will recognize your camera.

[lollo]

The most important device in the capture chain is the player

The most important device in the chain is the weakest one. That includes the user.

Not for analog capture. A nice player and a mediocre capture card produce good results. A crap player and the best capture card produce bad results.

The user is out of the equation once is instructed on the right materials and procedures to use.

[rgr]

The most important device in the capture chain is the player

The most important device in the chain is the weakest one. That includes the user.

Not for analog capture. A nice player and a mediocre capture card produce good results.

Yes - stuttering video, 25fps progressive (Nero Recode), dropped frames, bad colors, MJPEG compression, no a/v sync. Great results!