Smart Media Cutter

[skeskinen]

Thank you for the files!

I think I know what this is about. On my machine, all 3 videos you uploaded play correctly (without glitch) in mpv, losslesscut and smc, but I see the glitch in video 3 with vlc.

Firstly, i am curious why SMC on your PC plays the 4k/60p HEVC file, but when i try to play it in SMC on my fairly powerful Dell PC the image is very laggy, but the Audio is fine.

I use MPC as my media player, and the glitch is definitely there during playback at the join of the 2 segments, and i get the same glitch using VLC which i had not tested before.

As i previously mentioned in a post up the page with my Youtube videos, SMC (and VRD) will not play my 4k HEVC files properly in the preview screen, VRD is slow to seek to my cut points but i can do it, but SMC is very smooth locating my cut points, the video just doesn't seem to play smoothly in the preview screen, but LosslessCut plays these files perfectly.

OK so i just opened SMC and made 2 cuts in that same 4k HEVC file and joined the segments, and i loaded the joined file into VRD and when i seek to the first cut point it is almost identical to the glitch of the single cut file that i uploaded to you, BUT seeking to the 2nd join in VRD it shows an even bigger mess before and after the 2nd cut point.

I played the file back in LosslessCut because that is the only tool that i found will play my 4k/60p HEVC file perfectly, that gave me a very slight glitch at the 2nd cut point, nothing at the first cut, but playing it multiple times i get slightly different results, but if i seek to the 2 cut points in LosslessCut it shows no apparent glitches at the 2 cut points, where VRD does, so i am left scratching my head.

As i mentioned before, i cannot use LosslessCut to cut my 4k/60p HEVC files even on keyframes and guarantee that VRD will play with them properly when adding titles or exporting to other formats, and i would not be confident using SMC to cut these files just yet either because of this glitch that VRD is showing in the timeline, and seeing the glitches when i play them back in MPC and VLC.

Keep us posted on progress if you can, because i definitely would be keen to use SMC in the future if it can play properly with my 4k HEVC files.

BTW i uploaded the same 4k/60p HEVC file with 2 cuts made (3:50 point and around 15:11 point)

File name is 5 SOURCE 4k-60p HEVC @ 61.0Mbps - 2 Cuts (3.50 & 15.11)

Hi, The HEVC export issue should be fixed in v2.2.8.
This change is not specific to the sample you sent to me, but it affects most hardware encoded HEVC video. Unfortunate side effect of this fix is that the recoding this type of content is now slower than it was. You can mitigate this somewhat, by setting the encoder speed to e.g. 'ultrafast'.

I will probably look into the recoding performance a little later, but for now I think it's better for the outputs to be glitch free than to be fast but incorrect.

I've also tried to make the preview player faster and also make it slightly prettier with nicer downsampling and a buffering indicator. But again, I'm not sure if these changes do anything for you because the player seems to perform quite differently on my machine.

EDIT: 2.2.8 had bug on Windows which makes the player not work at all. Pushing 2.2.9 update very soon
EDIT2: 2.2.9 is out for Windows and the problem is mitigated.

[Bridgy]

Hi, The HEVC export issue should be fixed in v2.2.8.

Hi there, i just installed version 2.2.9 and my 4k/60p HEVC sample file does not play or display the image properly in the preview screen, the Audio track is fine.

If i use the 1 Sec and 10 Sec seek button in the cutting tool timeline, the video frames still lag a bit, so nothing has changed from 2.2.7 on my Dell PC.

The GOOD News, the frames at the start of each segment after a cut no longer has a glitch, and this for me is the most important Fix so fat, so thank you Sir.

Cheers

[skeskinen]

Hi, The HEVC export issue should be fixed in v2.2.8.

Hi there, i just installed version 2.2.9 and my 4k/60p HEVC sample file does not play or display the image properly in the preview screen, the Audio track is fine.

If i use the 1 Sec and 10 Sec seek button in the cutting tool timeline, the video frames still lag a bit, so nothing has changed from 2.2.7 on my Dell PC.

The GOOD News, the frames at the start of each segment after a cut no longer has a glitch, and this for me is the most important Fix so fat, so thank you Sir.

Cheers

Well, good that at least the HEVC cutting fix works.

I really need a better process to test and validate on Windows. The issue with 2.2.8 was just because I don't test enough on Windows.

I'm gonna pull out an old laptop and install Win10 on it. Hopefully, I can see some of issues you have with the preview player on that machine. If not, then I'm really just trying different random things and hoping that they fix the issues you see.

Could you describe a bit more about what this means "display the image properly in the preview screen"? Like is there image but it's wrong or laggy? Or is there no image at all?

[Bridgy]

Could you describe a bit more about what this means "display the image properly in the preview screen"? Like is there image but it's wrong or laggy? Or is there no image at all?

This is a video i just recorded of the playback and seeking to cut points using the 1 Sec and 10 Sec markers, it is similar to the way it was working in my previous video on the previous page, using version 2.2.7.

https://youtu.be/L56fNofUfaQ

This is the same file being played and seeking in my VRD Pro.

https://youtu.be/5TkKSL4HMDs

VRD is a lot worse but VRD has not been developed for 3.5 years due to the passing of it's owner Dan Rosen, so this issue in VRD is to be expected, Dan just never completed his development of 4k HEVC video files.

This is the same file being played and seeking in my LosslessCut.

https://youtu.be/EIoAt0yLsfE

[Bridgy]

Hi, how do i create chapter markers at each of my cuts, this is crucial to my work.

In VRD there is a setting that lets me create chapters if i want them.

Cheers

[skeskinen]

Hi, how do i create chapter markers at each of my cuts, this is crucial to my work.

In VRD there is a setting that lets me create chapters if i want them.

Cheers

Hi, I plan to add tool to add/edit chapter marks to the next release. Should be out later this week

Also, I have made some progress on the 4k HEVC playback situation. I've implemented better optimized rendering path for Windows. Now I'm able to play the sample file you sent me smoothly even on my old laptop. That should also be coming up with the next release.

[Bridgy]

Hi, I plan to add tool to add/edit chapter marks to the next release. Should be out later this week

Also, I have made some progress on the 4k HEVC playback situation. I've implemented better optimized rendering path for Windows. Now I'm able to play the sample file you sent me smoothly even on my old laptop. That should also be coming up with the next release.

The playback issues that i had with my 4k/60p HEVC files was only happening in your SMC preview screen and in the timeline when seeking to my cuts, with version 2.2.9 it is now perfect, and there are no longer any glitches at cut points on playback, which i was getting with version 2.2.7

VRD still has a bit of lag in the preview screen and seeking in the timeline, but that was due to it not being developed any more, but now that i have my much more powerful Dell PC that has vastly improved, and i can manage to make my cuts with patience but VRD is having an issue joining the cut segments together, it just crashes, so using VRD for cutting these files was pointless, which is why i initially started using LosslessCut to do my cutting and joining, but SMC is just so much better at this task so i am now going to use it as my full time cutting tool, and the export files from SMC play nicely with VRD where the files from LosslessCut did not, VRD just didn't like them for some reason.

I really look forward to the option to add chapter markers at each cut.

[Bridgy]

Hi again, ok after your PM to me today with my License info, and outlining other features that you might add this year, i will post my thoughts below.

Transitions between cut points - don't get too hung up on those too much, especially those silly Fade in/Fade out ones that we all used many years ago when making DVD's, and i have not seen anyone use transitions between cut points for a very long time, they don't do it in movies or tv shows so it would not be something that many would use.

I will add tho, i do sometimes like to add my own custom made Black transitions between cut points in my files, but the transition is only half a second or 1 second duration, and it just appears a quick black flash between the cut points, i created my own way to make these short transition files, the same as i had to create my own way to create my own Titles and Credits.

VRD was not able add transitions, it only had the option to add Titles and Credits, either using a Text Format, or using a graphics image and adding text to that.

Chapter Marks at Cut Points is important for me and it seems like you might be working on that soon, which will be great, and i sent you a screenshot of how it can be set in VRD Pro using the Options Settings, rather than have a defined "Add Chapter mark" button within the cutting tool buttons on the main interface, i just don't like too many buttons down there, and at the moment you have enough buttons already.

So far so good, i look forward to future releases.

Cheers

[noemi7]

Changing the File extension at the end of a file name has nothing to do with SMC being able to export to other containers, so i am a bit confused by that comment.

Have you checked it? Just do it - it doesn't hurt

I've never considered VRD as a video converter, especially for resizing video. There are plenty of other and free programs for such purpose. So, I don't see a problem with SMC not having the option (yet).

[skeskinen]

Yeah, the "UI" to do container conversions is to just type different file extension to the output filename. Kind of like in command line ffmpeg.
I think I will eventually add an export format list like there is in VRD. Where you can click to select some combinations like "export to h264 .mp4" and it just sets the export settings correctly. But this is pretty low on the priority list at the moment.

[Bridgy]

I've never considered VRD as a video converter, especially for resizing video. There are plenty of other and free programs for such purpose. So, I don't see a problem with SMC not having the option (yet).

You very obviously have had no experience with VRD saying this sort of tripe, VRD is a video converter as well as a cutting tool, and it uses Intelligent recoding to export to the same, or to other formats, VRD has built in presets or you can create your own where VRD already has the right export settings set by default for any export format you choose, and it does this better than any other video converter out there, and it is this feature that i hope will be included in SMC.

And please don't throw up tools like Handbrake as a better option because even tho it is a great bit of software and it's free, it requires a certain amount of user input for exporting files to other formats at the right quality, and you need to understand how to use the export Quality presets for each given export (RF Quality Factor) and that is why i don't use it over using VRD with it's built in Intelligent Recode feature.

Even the VRD Force Recode feature is better and easier to use than Handbrake.

Have you checked it? Just do it - it doesn't hurt

I really have no idea what you are talking about, have i checked what exactly ?????

As for anything else you want to say about SMC and how brilliant it is, well i will just try to avoid most of it because i personally don't really think you know that much at all about video editing, based on your ill informed comments about VRD above.

All i will say is that based on testing with my own camera recorded 4k/60p HEVC files, i can select to do full recode of my 4k HEVC files to H264 etc and it works, but only on files that are cut first, i imported some 4k HEVC files from my camera and did not do any cuts, and i set to export to H264 with full recode to H264 but they fail, if i cut a small segment from the file then it works, so i am getting some mixed results so far

Also, the Full Recode option in SMC needs to have the export Encode quality and encoder speed settings applied manually like you need to do in tools like Handbrake, and if you do not apply the right settings then the exported H264 file may not be as it should be (bitrate wise)

SMC is brilliant for Frame Accurate Smart Cutting, but as i keep saying, until SMC can implement a full Recoding feature (to other formats and resolutions) and uses the same or a very similar Intelligent Recode feature that VRD has, i will need to use SMC along side VRD for my own particular video files.

[Paolo Tex]

Hi skeskinen, first of everything: THANKS.

That said, i just downloaded the free version of SMC v2.3.0 and it does works flawlessly at cutting out commercials from my DVB-T .ts files recorded with my PVR decoder here in Italy. The resulting cutted file (i've tried only one FHD h264 recording for now) plays wonderful at cutpoints both on my PC (VLC mediaplatyer) and my hardware player (Xiaomi TV Box 3rd generation).

I think i'll buy the full version, your constant work must be rewarded.

Some features suggestions will follow.

Thank you again.

[Bridgy]

@ Paolo Tex .......... i would like to gift you a personal licence if you have not already bought one.

I was gifted a Lite version for helping skeskinen with some of my testing on 4k/60p HEVC camera files, but i ended up buying a Personal License, and a few days later i accidentally bought another license which skeskinen offered to refund my money, but i think his software has a lot of potential and i am now using it as part of my Editing workflow along side VideoReDo Pro, so i asked him if i can gift thee License to someone of my choosing, and he agreed.

So if you have not bought one yet, please reply here and i will send you the license details via a PM.

Cheers

[Bridgy]

Back again, will post this up in here and see if i can find out what might be going on with the Smart Cut Export Settings.

I have been using SMC to do my Cuts in many files over the weekend, and used the Smart Cut export mode.

Given that the Smart Cut mode exports your files to "Same As Source" without recoding, there is no need to have the Encode Quality and Speed Settings enabled in the Export box (see screenshot) as i noted in my exports that if i set the Encode settings to Default, the Smart Cut Quality is set to Low and Speed is set to Slow to get my files the same Bitrate as the Source file.

I was testing the Full Recode feature for a while to try and export my 4k/60p HEVC files to AVC, i tried various export settings to but it would not work, so i went back to doing cute and exporting with the Smart Cut option, but i realized that the Encode Quality and Speed settings were still set to the AVC export settings, so my Smart Cut export file ended up having a higher bitrate than the Source file.

This is when i realized that i need to reset the encoder settings to Default so the Smart Cut mode was reset to Low and Slow.

I know this might not seem like a big deal, but the Smart Cut mode needs to be separated from the Full Recode section so there is no confusion about the settings.

Anyway, no big deal, i just don't like having to reset the encoder settings to Default, or have to change the Quality and Speed back to Slow and Low manually if they have been changed.

BTW, does the Full Recode Mode actually work yet, i have tried several recodes of my 4k HEVC files to AVC but they are not working.

I did send you a screenshot of the Error, and you may aalready be looking into this.

Cheers


[Attachment 91948 - Click to enlarge]

[Paolo Tex]

Hi, thanks for your findings, i thought that, for smart mode cut, only some frames at cutpoints were re-encoded, despite those settings....

[skeskinen]

Hi skeskinen, first of everything: THANKS.

That said, i just downloaded the free version of SMC v2.3.0 and it does works flawlessly at cutting out commercials from my DVB-T .ts files recorded with my PVR decoder here in Italy. The resulting cutted file (i've tried only one FHD h264 recording for now) plays wonderful at cutpoints both on my PC (VLC mediaplatyer) and my hardware player (Xiaomi TV Box 3rd generation).

I think i'll buy the full version, your constant work must be rewarded.

Some features suggestions will follow.

Thank you again.

Thank you Paolo I'm glad to have you as a user of SMC.

Back again, will post this up in here and see if i can find out what might be going on with the Smart Cut Export Settings.

I have been using SMC to do my Cuts in many files over the weekend, and used the Smart Cut export mode.

Given that the Smart Cut mode exports your files to "Same As Source" without recoding, there is no need to have the Encode Quality and Speed Settings enabled in the Export box (see screenshot) as i noted in my exports that if i set the Encode settings to Default, the Smart Cut Quality is set to Low and Speed is set to Slow to get my files the same Bitrate as the Source file.

I was testing the Full Recode feature for a while to try and export my 4k/60p HEVC files to AVC, i tried various export settings to but it would not work, so i went back to doing cute and exporting with the Smart Cut option, but i realized that the Encode Quality and Speed settings were still set to the AVC export settings, so my Smart Cut export file ended up having a higher bitrate than the Source file.

This is when i realized that i need to reset the encoder settings to Default so the Smart Cut mode was reset to Low and Slow.

I know this might not seem like a big deal, but the Smart Cut mode needs to be separated from the Full Recode section so there is no confusion about the settings.

Anyway, no big deal, i just don't like having to reset the encoder settings to Default, or have to change the Quality and Speed back to Slow and Low manually if they have been changed.

BTW, does the Full Recode Mode actually work yet, i have tried several recodes of my 4k HEVC files to AVC but they are not working.

I did send you a screenshot of the Error, and you may aalready be looking into this.

Cheers

Hi Bridgy

1. I think I found the issue that was blocking recoding to AVC. This will be fixed in v2.3.3, which should be out later today.

2. Smartcut uses the encoder settings, but they only apply around the cut points (the small bridge segments between keyframes). The rest of
the file is copied bit-for-bit from the source.

A note on bitrate: SMC doesn't try to match the source bitrate. Re-encoding at the source's bitrate actually loses quality, since the encoder is working from already-compressed pixels, so it needs a higher bitrate than the original to preserve the same visual quality (this is called generation loss). With Default settings the bridge segments may end up at a higher bitrate than the surrounding copied stream, but that's there to keep the cut points looking as close to the original as possible. If you'd rather minimize file size at those points, lowering Quality and slowing the encoder both decrease the final file size.

That said, I will probably eventually add an option to smartcut to preserve the source bitrate.

===

v2.3.3 mostly just a bunch bugfixes. I'm hopeful that this version is going to be stable enough that I can take about 2 week break from new SMC releases.

In early May I want to redesign the export UI. Then I can do things like separating the smartcut and fullrecode settings and add cleaner UI for choosing output codec and container, etc.

[Paolo Tex]

Hi Santtu !!!!

Take all the time you need. For the moment i only have two more feature suggestions in my mind: one as simple as smart it can be, and one.... very ambitious... (eheh)

Sorry but i can't contain myself... i'll reveal the simple and smart: simply to add to the cutting final report/statistics, where the cutpoints (the conjunctions) between segments are located (using the output file timing) so in in playback mode i can quickly look at those points.

For the ambitious one i'll wait......

[Bridgy]

Hi Bridgy

1. I think I found the issue that was blocking recoding to AVC. This will be fixed in v2.3.3, which should be out later today.

That's great, however it is not a big deal breaker for me to be honest, i retain my Cut files in 4k HEVC anyway, ready to add my titles/credits, short black transitions between cuts, i would only export to AVC if i had someone who had a device that was not able to play HEVC files.

I can still use VRD for this purpose but i am thrilled that you may have fixed this in the next build all the same.

The feature i would use more would be the ability to down or upscale to other resolutions like VRD can do, so i am waiting for this to be added at some time too, but i hoped that you might do it using what VRD calls "Intelligent Recode" where the user does not need to set their own export Quality or Encoder Speed to get the resized export file to the right quality.

2. Smartcut uses the encoder settings, but they only apply around the cut points (the small bridge segments between keyframes). The rest of the file is copied bit-for-bit from the source.

A note on bitrate: SMC doesn't try to match the source bitrate. Re-encoding at the source's bitrate actually loses quality, since the encoder is working from already-compressed pixels, so it needs a higher bitrate than the original to preserve the same visual quality (this is called generation loss). With Default settings the bridge segments may end up at a higher bitrate than the surrounding copied stream, but that's there to keep the cut points looking as close to the original as possible. If you'd rather minimize file size at those points, lowering Quality and slowing the encoder both decrease the final file size.

Yes i understand that the file is recoded only at the cut points, but why are we left to decide which export quality and encoder speed to set if these settings only apply to the small recode at each cut point, isn't there a way of doing this automatically within the encoder itself, just like the way it is done in VRD, we don't need to set anything for the Intelligent Recode at each cut point, Dan created this to happen automatically based on reading the frames around the cut point.

Apologies for the comparisons to VRD but i am merely using VRD as a reference.

That said, I will probably eventually add an option to smartcut to preserve the source bitrate.

Well if that was possible for you to do then this would be great, because in VRD when you cut and join multiple parts together and use the Smart Render option (also known as "Same As Source") the exported file has the same video Bitrate as the Source file, which confirms that Dan Rosen was using his Intelligent Recode function to recode those frames the same as the Source file bitrate.

In SMC i joined multiple segments cut from one of my 4k HEVC files and i tested 5 different settings to encode those frames around the joins and the overall Bitrate for each exported file was quite different to each.

Keep up the great work, so far everything looks on track, unfortunately i can't test any TV broadcast files so others will need to offer you feedback for those.

[Bridgy]

Disregard.

Just testing version 2.3.4