Best Middle of the Road VHS to Digital Capture?

[jar292]

So just a little bit of information about me first.
I'm fairly new to this website(other than just reading a few threads), so please bear with me
Not a professional of videography, or looking to be by any means of the definition, but just looking to transfer about 40 or so home VHS and VHS-C tapes to the digital format.
And not looking for the cheapest/worse quality way to transfer videos, but also not looking for the most expensive way either(hoping to find somewhere in the middle)

Here are a couple methods that I have tried already but with mixed results:
1.) I've tried a cheap RCA to HDMI converter/upscaler from Amazon, and then ran that through a Magewell USB Capture HDMI Plus device(already had this available so didn't have to purchase it for this project) which gave an okay picture(to me anyways), but still the colors where slightly off, and it seemed to add a lot of contrast and/or saturation to the picture. Also I have read online that it's best not to upscale the video when transferring to the digital format, but to save that process for later if need be.

2.) I also tried the Elgato Video Capture device, which seemed to provide a picture that was closer to the original, but yet added a lot of "jittering" to the video.(After doing some research, I found out the jittering was probably because my VCR didn't have a TBC.) Besides this though, I had other issues with the Elgato as well. It and the Elgato software just didn't play nice with my Windows 11 PC. For it to work correctly, I had to end up disabling some security software in my PC, go through the Elgato website to download the recommended driver(Version 127), then find out that driver didn't work, then download another driver(Version 128) that Elgato recommends if the first one didn't work. I also had to change some of the code in the Elgato software(as detailed how to do on the Elgato website when the certain issue I had arises), to finally get it to work.

Now from what I understand, one of the best ways to transfer videos is to have a good quality VCR with line TBC, an external Full-Frame TBC, and a good capture device/card. After doing some research though, that method most likely comes to around $2000 or more, with a good refurbished VCR with TBC running around $800-1000 or more, and the external Full-frame TBC starting around $1000 and going up from there. That's well above my budget. I can probably justify taking the risk of getting the VCR w/ TBC, and hopefully reselling it after I'm done, but I don't think I can pull the trigger of spending another $1000 or more to just transfer old VHS tapes to the best quality.

So if I get the VCR with TBC, leave the external Full-Frame TBC out due to price, that leaves me with getting the capture card/device. After looking through threads though, watching youtube videos, reading articles, etc., I can't seem to make sense of what is the best device of getting the video from the VCR to the PC.
Some say to use something such as the Canopus ADVC-110 over devices such as Blackmagic or devices such as the I-O Data GV-USB2.

One Example:
https://youtu.be/5nubVDZvzNA?si=MlaWpP5YpxO5Kc-t

But then I have read where some say not to use a DV converter because it compresses the video quality. Which then again, this person from youtube says that it doesn't do that enough to make a difference.

https://youtu.be/e2Qt0rQVRhc?si=c665m-Xc5u6nzvii

And then there are products such as the Dazzle DVC100, Hauppauge USB-Live 2, Diamond VC500, etc., to consider

So back to my question, what is the best way for me to transfer VHS to digital without breaking the bank, but also not cheaping out?
Thanks in advance

[Sharc]

Ever thought of using a (Panasonic) DVD recorder? It could be a good compromise and saving you a lot of hassles, especially for less experienced users or using some crap capture devices.

[jar292]

I've read how some others have went that route, but I haven't looked into it a whole lot, because I have heard how it compresses the video to mpeg format, which I've read is also harder to edit later on down the road if need be. I may look into it a bit more though. Thanks for the input!

[davexnet]

The most acknowledged and recommended process is to capture in standard definition using something like I-O data GV USB2,
AmarecTV capture software
using chroma 4:2:2 colorspace with a lossless codec eg. UT video codec

[Sharc]

The most acknowledged and recommended process is to capture in standard definition using something like I-O data GV USB2,
AmarecTV capture software
using chroma 4:2:2 colorspace with a lossless codec eg. UT video codec

The lossless capture route gives basically better results if done correctly using qualified devices. Has its pitfalls though. For users willing to go through a learning curve.
Much info found in this forum.

[jar292]

Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it! I will try to look into the I-O data GV USB2 more, as well as AmarecTV.

[The_Doman]

I've read how some others have went that route, but I haven't looked into it a whole lot, because I have heard how it compresses the video to mpeg format, which I've read is also harder to edit later on down the road if need be. I may look into it a bit more though. Thanks for the input!

Instead of recording to it directly, you can use it as a pass through/stabilizing function to give you a more stable video image to work with your capture card/device.
NTSC VHS newbie summary #2: TBC Budget option: Panasonic DMR-ES10 ES15

I have several Panasonic DVD/HDD recorders from my thrift store just for that when capturing analog video through my firewire devices.

Also with a separate TBC/Panasonic you then are not depending on a VCR with TBC, which are more hard to get and expensive.
And getting a reliable working VCR these days already can be a challenge.
I have some JVC S-VHS machines with TBC (thrift) too but i prefer to use the stabilizing functionality of the Panasonic DVR with a decent regular VCR.

[jar292]

Instead of recording to it directly, you can use it as a pass through/stabilizing function to give you a more stable video image to work with your capture card/device.

I will definitely consider that option! It looks like it would be quite a bit cheaper! Thanks for the recommendation!

[Sharc]

If your VCR has Composite ("RCA") OUT only and no S-Video OUT the insertion of a recommended DVD Recorder in passthrough is a de facto MUST to prevent wiggling, reduce dotcrawl and rainbow artefacts, unless you have an external genuine TBC or a high-end capture card.

[jar292]

If your VCR has Composite ("RCA") OUT only and no S-Video OUT the insertion of a recommended DVD Recorder in passthrough is a de facto MUST to prevent wiggling, reduce dotcrawl and rainbow artefacts, unless you have an external genuine TBC or a high-end capture card.

Gotcha! Yeah my current VCR is just a basic one without S-Video out, and only composite. I plan to at least get a VCR with S-Video out though, and hopefully one with TBC as well. I have a couple follow up questions though. If I get a VCR w/ TBC and S-Video out, would it still be recommended that I get something such as the DMR-ES10 or ES15? And also, what is considered a "high-end capture card"?

[lollo]

If I get a VCR w/ TBC and S-Video out, would it still be recommended that I get something such as the DMR-ES10 or ES15?

No, you use the TBC of the VCR or the TBC of the ES10/ES15. Whatever works best. If the first is "well" correcting the picture is preferable, because you do not introduce an additional lossy element in the signal path.

And also, what is considered a "high-end capture card"?

Something like a Ensemble Design BrightEye 75, a Snell & Wilcox TBS800 or a Canopus NX. They have internal correction for bad incoming input signals. If the source is clean (high-end SVHS VCR and eventually an external frameTBC), a Hauppauge USB-Live 2 or a I-O Data GV-USB2 are adequate.

[Darryl In Canada]

A medium workflow could be:

- $50 JVC SVHS player (without line TBC) from FB Marketplace
- $50 Panasonic ES-10 or ES-15 as a passthrough from FB Marketplace (I found one at thrift store for $15!)
- $25 Diamond VC500 USB capture device (available new at Amazon)

This would give pretty good results but it would be best to be on the lookout for a pre-owned USB capture device like the ATI TV Wonder 600. In this case, you could also need to get an old Windows 7 computer or Windows XP and use it a dedicated appliance.

I present four options for capture cards in my video here at 11:40
https://youtu.be/pKYNqZdqawc?si=lE8H2eTLJtpWUUDk&t=700

[lordsmurf]

A medium workflow could be:
- $50 JVC SVHS player (without line TBC) from FB Marketplace
- $50 Panasonic ES-10 or ES-15 as a passthrough from FB Marketplace (I found one at thrift store for $15!)
- $25 Diamond VC500 USB capture device (available new at Amazon)

non-TBC JVC > ES10/15, yep, viable uber-budget workflow.

But the VC500 has AGC problems.

The card chosen really depends on OS, with WinXP/7 best, Win10/11 not-best (almost unusable). For example, ATI 600 USB is a top easy choice, but Win8/10/11 updates nuked it, so Win7 at most now. Certain specific Pinnacle for Win10/11 usually works.

$15 is a nice find for ES15.

Beware of VCRs from FB/eBay/etc, so much can go wrong with those, and often does, as the VCRs are all 20-25 years old now. I'd never even pay $50 from FB, as it may be wasted money.

[lollo]

This would give pretty good results but it would be best to be on the lookout for a pre-owned USB capture device like the ATI TV Wonder 600. In this case, you could also need to get an old Windows 7 computer or Windows XP and use it a dedicated appliance.

Who ever told you that the ATI 600 is better in quality than the Diamond VC500 USB? Is not:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-workflows/9583-best-ati-capture.html
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376526-VHS-waviness-in-digital-conversion-comparison-screenshots
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/360704-2013-my-video-capture-device-comparison-screenshots

The problem with the VC500 is that some of its revisions suffer of AGC instability, meaning that in a middle of a scene there is suddenly a change in the brigthness, most of the times trigger by a defect on the tape or by instability of the incomig signal.

I present four options for capture cards in my video here at 11:40
https://youtu.be/pKYNqZdqawc?si=lE8H2eTLJtpWUUDk&t=700

There is no need to install old Windows operating systems as per old cards requirements. Just use a IOData GV-USB2 or a Hauppauge USB-Live 2, which are in pair with the old cards (or better) in term of quality, and work flawless in Windows 10 and Windows 11.

[lordsmurf]

Live2 is a very inferior card to the ATI, especially in a budget workflow.

[lollo]

False. When fed with a stable and TBC corrected Y/C signal is equivalent or better.

[lordsmurf]

False. When fed with a stable and TBC corrected Y/C signal is equivalent or better.

You literally state "false", then describe why it's definitely NOT false.

While TBCs are needed in workflows, capture cards should still have some % of resiliency, as TBC and Y/C cannot 100% correct/solve everything always. When the card essentially craps itself at any sign of danger, it's a weak card, and not suggested, as you will run into issues eventually. After all, isn't that why you moved from Live2 to GV-USB2?

[lollo]

You literally state "false", then describe why it's definitely NOT false.

No. False means what it means. There are not hidden significations behind that adjective.

While TBCs are needed in workflows, capture cards should still have some % of resiliency, as TBC and Y/C cannot 100% correct/solve everything always.

Complete non sense.

• The comb filter of the USB-Live 2 is worse than other cards.
  Which has 0 importance, because in a serious workflow noboby cares about capturing from composite.
  I would not buy snow tires for my car if I live in a sunny city with 25oC average temperature.

• The video circuits of the USB-Live 2 are not comfortable with unstable input signals, such as these coming from VHS recording, just like almost every other card.
  Which has 0 importance, because in a serious workflow noboby cares about capturing without a (even minimal) TBC correction.
  I would not buy a luxury car like if I have to drive in narrow mountain roads.

• The % of resiliency is not existing in this contest, at each its own work. If the input signal is Y/C there is nothing to discuss about, if there is no time base correction, few cards can handle it.

When the card essentially craps itself at any sign of danger, it's a weak card, and not suggested, as you will run into issues eventually.

The USB-Live 2 performs excently in the proper and recommended conditions, that's all that matters.

After all, isn't that why you moved from Live2 to GV-USB2?

False. You muse be confused. I own/used/tested several cards, including the GV-USB2, which is excellent. My favorite (and use most of the time) in that range is still being the USB-Live 2.