VHS waviness in digital conversion - comparison screenshots

[Brad]

How do various devices handle timebase errors? A single frame from an SP mode camcorder tape doesn't tell the full story, but it's a start.

Note: these images are useless to judge other qualities like color. I deliberately lowered the contrast where possible, because the tape is overly bright and I was trying to avoid clipping peaks.

Ranked in approximate order of best to worst.

Panasonic DMR-ES25 (HDMI output)


ATI 750 USB (vertical jitter manually corrected)


StarTech USB3HDCAP (see warning)


ATI Radeon X1950 Pro + LanczosResize(711,480), ATI All-in-Wonder 128 Pro + LanczosResize(689,480)


ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon 9800 Pro


Vidikron DVS3500 (aka Faroudja DVP3000)


Canopus NHX-E2, I-O DATA GV-MVP/RX3, I-O DATA GV-MVP/GX2 (GX2 is MPEG-2 only)


Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K


ATI 600 USB


Diamond VC500


Easycap STK1160


iGrabber + LanczosResize(704,480)


ATI TV Wonder Pro + LanczosResize(689,480)


I'll add more later, probably.

[Brad]

Added two All-in-Wonder cards and GV-MVP/GX2.

[Brad]

Added Easycap STK1160. Probably the worst so far.

[KarMa]

You have too many toys, please continue.

[jagabo]

I might be better if you used something like

SeprateFields()
StackVertical(SelectEven(),SelectOdd()

so the combing doesn't interfere with the view.

But thanks, though.

[pippas]

Added Easycap STK1160. Probably the worst so far.

I've been trying out an EzCap 116 to compare results with my Canopus ADVC50. I find the quality from both pretty good.. although without using any TBC at all, any 'waviness' from VHS source is just about the same on both.. and not always that good of course!

If I add my old Panasonic DMR-E55 DVD recorder into the signal path, then the results are much improved. Many Panasonic DVD recorders from around that time includes a form of TBC or 'frame synchronizer' ... the exact details of what they actually used seem to be a bit uncertain.

As any of the capture devices - like the EzCap116 - which use the Empia 28xx chip don't include any TBC, it's probably not really fair to attribute any 'waviness' to a shortcoming in the capture device?

A short clip of an old VHS tape capture with the EZCap116 is attached. (Any 'waviness' in the BandW bits of moving footage is in the original film clip).
I don't think the EzCap makes too bad a job of things?......

[Brad]

As any of the capture devices - like the EzCap116 - which use the Empia 28xx chip don't include any TBC, it's probably not really fair to attribute any 'waviness' to a shortcoming in the capture device?

Some of the devices I've included claim to have TBC, some others out there claim "mini-TBC" or other features to handle unstable input. And some folks wonder what the effect of line TBC is. So I wanted to compare how various devices manage with non-TBC'd input.

[pippas]

So I wanted to compare how various devices manage with non-TBC'd input.

Ah - I see. My misunderstanding... sorry about that.

I have to say I discovered the TBC capability of my old DVD recorder by accident. Then of course a quick Google showed that others had discovered it as well!

If I'm honest, I think that my Canopus ADVC does perform better than the EzCap without any TBC device in the chain, but the improvement to both devices is so marked, I don't do any more captures without the recorder 'in the loop' as it were!

I have to say I was surprised at how well the Ezcap does perform. Bit of 'tweaking' of course (I get better results using an intermediate than I do trying to capture uncompressed) and I don't find the USB audio path very good. The AC97 audio hardware codec used is not good.. or at least the way it's implemented in this device is not very good.

So, having been spoilt with locked audio with DV capture, it's a bit of a pain to have to sync the audio. But not difficult.

As I say, for the money, I have been pleasantly surprised with the capture quality from the EzCap....at least, when there is a TBC involved!

[Brad]

Added StarTech USB3HDCAP. Of the capture cards shown, it has the best horizontal stability, but it's ultimately no good for VHS.

[PuzZLeR]

Been meaning to do something like this with my toys too. Will get around to it soon enough.

I was wondering, you don't have an ATI USB 600?

[Brad]

You should know that I do, if you got my most recent PM. It's just that I'm very familiar with its results, so there's no personal curiosity motivating me to try it with this tape.

It's added above, now.

[PuzZLeR]

You should know that I do, if you got my most recent PM. It's just that I'm very familiar with its results, so there's no personal curiosity motivating me to try it with this tape.

It's added above, now.

Yes certainly, that's why I asked since I was surprised, or wondering why, you didn't include the ATI 600 USB in this mix, at least initially.

It's nice to see another freak like me with this many toys that we can't possibly include them all.

Glad you added the ATI 600, but disappointed it didn't do so well here.

[Brad]

Added Vidikron DVS3500 (aka Faroudja DVP3000) and iGrabber.

The iGrabber is a cheapo USB device by MyGica / Geniatech targeted towards Mac, though it includes Windows drivers and that's what I used here. The driver only goes up to 640x480, so I resized the image.

[Brad]

Added ATI 750 USB. I didn't experience any AGC pumping during the sample capture, but brights were clipped irrecoverably throughout.

More distressingly, there was plenty of random field-bounce (vertical jitter), and even entire sections where one of the fields stayed vertically offset by 1 scanline, causing horrendous bobbing when viewed at 60Hz. One of these lasted 41 seconds. There were also many dropped frames.

[PuzZLeR]

Added ATI 750 USB. I didn't experience any AGC pumping during the sample capture, but brights were clipped irrecoverably throughout.

More distressingly, there was plenty of random field-bounce (vertical jitter), and even entire sections where one of the fields stayed vertically offset by 1 scanline, causing horrendous bobbing when viewed at 60Hz. One of these lasted 41 seconds. There were also many dropped frames.

Yes indeed. Although it's been 5 years or so I still remember just how horrible the 750 was.

I know you participated in this thread, but for others, here's a clip of some of that trouble. Jagabo described it a few posts down.

There's a sample below here. Check it out frame-by-frame.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/331817-Best-MPEG-2-Capture-Device?p=2056893&viewful...=1#post2056893

This would occur too frequently, also accompanied by others: color bursts too (that seem like chroma, not brightness levels pumping to me, but not sure) and many dropped frames as well. It was one bad product that I've actually returned instead of burned/destroyed. It sucked right from the get-go that I just felt it more principle than anything that they won't get my money on this.

[Brad]

Added ATI TV Wonder Pro: the new worst. The waviness is horrendous and the blooming is almost as bad as the DVS3500 (the Contrast control recovers nothing). Not to mention that it's cropped/stretched as much as the AIW 128 Pro.