Thumbnails for MKV files

[Steve01351]

OK - that's the cover that one of my Win 10 machines shows. The other one shows a thumbnail from somewhere in the mkv. Now I need to figure out what the explorer settings differences are. But since neither machine is showing any cover.jpg that I put into a file, that's probably not going to tell me a lot. Still, it's worth finding out.

[Steve01351]

The explorer (file view) properties on the two computers are identical. But one of them shows that cover.jpg and the other one shows a thumbnail picture of him holding the baby.

[Steve01351]

The file view settings are identical on those two Windows 10 computers. But this computer here shows the cover.jpg above. The Windows 10 computer in my living room show a thumbnail of him holding the baby. This is making less and less sense.

[jagabo]

It's some third party software you installed in the computer that shows the cover art.

[Steve01351]

It's possible that Icaros (even though it's disabled) showed the cover.jpg on this computer - although it's supposedly a program that takes a thumbnail from the movie, but there's no way there's a third-party program on the other computer. I just installed Windows 10 on that computer last week, and with the exception of installing MPC-HC on there, I haven't installed a single program of any kind. (I've even got the wireless connection that it uses set as a metered connection so it won't download Windows 109 updates. )

[flashandpan007]

Delete thumbnail cache. It‘s possible that the cover is cached, and Icaros is disabled now makes no difference. Be aware, Icaros has also a cache

[Steve01351]

Thanks.

[Steve01351]

You're right. I cleared the cache, enabled Icaros, ran MKVToolnix-gui and tried again to add a cover to a file. It worked. But if I transfer the file to another computer - even one running Icaros, there's no cover visible. Even though running MKVToolnix-gui on the transferred file and opening the attachments tab clearly shows the cover.jpg file there and enabled
.

[flashandpan007]

I‘m not sure, but there could be a checkbox in Icaros which must be checked to get covers visible.

[Steve01351]

OK, if I install Icaros on each Windows machine and check the "use embedded Cover Art for thumbnails" button, whatever cover art I add to the MKV when I mux it WILL be displayed - on those machines. There isn't a version for Linux. At least of Icaros. I'll see what I can find.

It's strange though. EVERYTHING I read said that I could get that art to display with just MKVToolnix.

[Budman1]

This post will probably get me in a lot of trouble so I will preface it with this. I do not believe you should do ANYTHING with your Windows Registry, not even view it or add any Codec Packs UNLESS you understand them and can fix them for certain if you mess them up..

Now this is for information only for anyone interested in Problem In this thread.

Windows, even brand new out the box has entries in it's Registry that allow decoding of videos, thumbnails and other things like Infotips on Mouseover. Some ofthe more important ones are like these below:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.ts\shellex\{00021500-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}]
@="{869C14C8-1830-491F-B575-5F9AB40D2B42}" Infotip handler
Image extracter for thumbnail
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.ts\shellex\{BB2E617C-0920-11D1-9A0B-00C04FC2D6C1}]
@="{9DBD2C50-62AD-11D0-B806-00C04FD706EC}" PotPlayer
@="{c5aec3ec-e812-4677-a9a7-4fee1f9aa000}" Icaros
@="{c5a40261-cd64-4ccf-84cb-c394da41d590}" Normal Codec
Thumbnail provider
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.ts\shellex\{e357fccd-a995-4576-b01f-234630154e96}]
@="{9DBD2C50-62AD-11D0-B806-00C04FD706EC}" PotPlayer
@="{c5aec3ec-e812-4677-a9a7-4fee1f9aa000}" Icaros
@="{c5a40261-cd64-4ccf-84cb-c394da41d590}" Normal Codec

If they are not set to use a codec or handler that will show thumbnails such as MKV, then they have to be altered by altering such things as disabling Windows Media Foundation codecs or choosing other installed ones, or installing new ones.

Many Video Editors, Viewers and Programs alter these and the order in which you install new items on your PC often determine which is the one Windows will use. If you notice in my earlier thread, the little PotPlayer logo in the lower right corner of my Thumbnails and Cover Art. This is because Potplayer changed my registry to use it's decoders and handlers. I do not care because PotPlayer has a lot of features I require (such as frame by frame viewing and others) but if I wanted to have a Thumbnail without the logo, I would reinstall Icaros, which is already installed, but since it would be last, the handler would be changed in my Registry and Icaros handler would then become the default.

OPINION: I use K-Lite because it has VFW codecs I wish for Virtualdub and it does NOT contain adware. It adds its codecs and registers them in the registry and overrides some handlers but for me, everything plays fine. Even VLC, which many people like as a viewer/editor, adds it's codecs, just in a separate folder and also adds 570 Registry entries by my count, not including those without VLC in their line as above.

C:\Users\Bud\Desktop>find /C "vlc" BUDS.REG
---------- BUDS.REG: 570
C:\Users\Bud\Desktop>

SO... if your PC does not have the the correct handlers and Codecs pointed to for Thumbnails, Cover Art, etc. then that has to be changed. If you change it and get the correct ones to display, another PC may or may not show them depending on its registry. If someone adds a program, (including some codec packs and editors and viewers) it may change their egistry and several days later they will post here that SUDDENLY their player won't play or their Thumbnails won't display for some icons, They just didn't notice until they opened their folder with all their videos.

Also... if many people, who have added software, used Windows to clear their thumbnail cache and then opened their video folder they would probably find many different icons or lack of them because they would be recreated with the latest software designated handler and codec. By the same token, you may notice an MP4 (or other) that some have thumbnails and some do not. This is often caused because Windows has that thumbnail cache and remembers your old video names and their designated thumb but any new ones have their thumbnails created when they are created, moved or renamed and a new codec may make them different or generic. Clear the cache and suddenly ALL MP4's are the same.

I hope this helps to understand thumbnails and Cover art and some of the problems and the reason for them not showing.

[Steve01351]

I avoid editing the registry and have heard WAY too many stories about the problems started with codec packs to be comfortable.

Anyway, I was just trying to get computers to display the cover art I chose for a video file. I'd thought from my reading that MKVToolnix alone would do that. I think it probably does - for some people. But for whatever reason it just doesn't do it for me. Unless the computer looking at the file is running Icaros and has the "use embedded Cover Art for thumbnails" button checked (not a default). But, I just found an older copy of MKV2MP4 on one of my computers, ran an MKV and added cover art that I liked - and computers not running Icaros (including Window 7 machines) are displaying that cover art. My only concern at this point is that the movie that I remuxed ended up going from a 2.3GB MKV to being a 1.77GB MP4. I'd thought that going from one container format to another container format with MKV2MP4 that the sizes would stay approximate. All I've given the two files is a pretty quick comparison and I don't see any quality discrepancy, but I certainly don't want to sacrifice video quality for a nice cover picture. And viewing the file on my computer is one thing. But I watch movies a LOT from a projector and on a 12 foot screen in my living room. A loss of quality would be problematic there.

[Steve01351]

The only differences I see in the properties are in the audio. The MKV had 6 channel and 640Kbps while the MP4 had 2 channel and 163Kbps. Still seems like a BIG difference, but who knows?

[Budman1]

Were the original mkv video and the final mp4 both h264/avc for video? Just curious.

My only concern at this point is that the movie that I remuxed ended up going from a 2.3GB MKV to being a 1.77GB MP4. I'd thought that going from one container format to another container format with MKV2MP4 that the sizes would stay approximate.

I thought the problem was you did not have Cover Art for MKV. Now it sounds like it shows for MP4???? Yes it may very well show.. for MP4... different handler?

[Steve01351]

I'd RATHER stick with MKV. 99% of my movie collection I've muxed to MKV. But my MAIN concern was having a thumbnail (or cover art) displayed. Some files don't display anything. I understand this is because of whatever app encoded the video in the first place not being format Windows natively understands, but for my purposes, the why is almost immaterial. I just wanted art instead of the generic icon. I thought that fixing that with MKVToolnix was possible. Even easy. And I'm sure it is on some computers. It just doesn't work for me. But I CAN put the file in an MP4 container. I THINK.

The video is h264 and audio is AAC for both MKV and MP4. But the audio is 6 channel and 640 Kbps for the MKV and 2 channel 163 Kbps for the MP4. The total bitrate is 2040 for the MKV but only 1574 for the MP4. And the filesize is .53 larger with the MKV than MP4. Do you suppose the difference in the audio could account for that much difference in total bitrate and filesize? Viewing them (even through a projector and blown up for a 12 foot screen, I don't see any obvious differences in video quality.

[leonsk]

Well, as the description says there's no "reconverting/transcoding" going on IF the original video is H264 and it has support for multiple audio tracks.

From videohelp software description:

MkvToMp4 can change the mkv/m2ts/mts to Mp4 without reconverting/transcoding video(If the original video in H264 format). Support for multiple internal and external audio tracks.

My guess is that the original file contained more than one audio tracks but somehow the remuxed one ended up containing only one audio track.

As for the cover art problem, there's no way you could make windows to show cover art by just using MKVToolNix, not unless you use a property handler. I was sure about this regarding Win 7, and as stated in previous posts you can't do it on Win 10 as well without a property handler regardless of what you have read or heard etc.

IIRC, you don't need a property handler or any special tool in order for windows to show cover art in MP4s so in my opinion you've only got 2 options here:

1. Install a property handler (e.g. Icaros) on all of your computers if you wish to use MKV
2. Go with MP4 (Not sure about this)

And as for the whole codec pack thing, I don't know where you get your facts from (or rather stories as you refer to them), but I've never had any problems with K-Lite which I've been using for years, and I don't know about this whole adware thing because I've seen NONE. Although I'll admit that when I first installed it there were a lot of problems, but when I cared enough to actually configure it thoroughly for once there's been no problems for me ever since.

Anyway, if don't like to install a codec pack then don't, it's not a requirement, just install Icaros.

[Steve01351]

Seems like your guess is right. The MKV had 6 channel and 640Kbps while the MP4 had 2 channel and 163Kbps.

I'd thought that I read guides HERE about adding the cover to the attachments tab and being able to see them. That only works for me if every windows computer that looks at that file has Icaros installed. Not a big deal, but if I share that file with someone or bring it over to watch at someone elses house, it's just be nice to have a thumbnail picture (or cover art picture) instead of a generic MKV logo. Still, that's probably not a good enough reason to all 1300 movies I have to MP4s.

I haven't heard anything about k-lite. Just the dangers involved in installing codec packs in general. How defaults you had could get changed and adware installed, etc. And the only time I installed a codec pack was years ago (I don't even remember the name, and it did exactly that. It tried to change my video player, it tried to change my browser, it DID change my homepage, etc. Just pains in the ass, and not a pain in the ass I want to revisit. Also, it has the same drawback using Icaros has - it only helps on a computer it's installed on. So, all in all, it seems like my best bet is to leave most of my movies alone, but remux to MP4 the ones that just show the generic MKV icon.

Well, as the description says there's no "reconverting/transcoding" going on IF the original video is H264 and it has support for multiple audio tracks.

From videohelp software description:

MkvToMp4 can change the mkv/m2ts/mts to Mp4 without reconverting/transcoding video(If the original video in H264 format). Support for multiple internal and external audio tracks.

My guess is that the original file contained more than one audio tracks but somehow the remuxed one ended up containing only one audio track.

As for the cover art problem, there's no way you could make windows to show cover art by just using MKVToolNix, not unless you use a property handler. I was sure about this regarding Win 7, and as stated in previous posts you can't do it on Win 10 as well without a property handler regardless of what you have read or heard etc.

IIRC, you don't need a property handler or any special tool in order for windows to show cover art in MP4s so in my opinion you've only got 2 options here:

1. Install a property handler (e.g. Icaros) on all of your computers if you wish to use MKV
2. Go with MP4 (Not sure about this)

And as for the whole codec pack thing, I don't know where you get your facts from (or rather stories as you refer to them), but I've never had any problems with K-Lite which I've been using for years, and I don't know about this whole adware thing because I've seen NONE. Although I'll admit that when I first installed it there were a lot of problems, but when I cared enough to actually configure it thoroughly for once there's been no problems for me ever since.

Anyway, if don't like to install a codec pack then don't, it's not a requirement, just install Icaros.

[Budman1]

Just adding another 2 cents worth... i also tried a codec pack years ago also and another when it hosed my computer, and then another and another. OMG it really hosed it up with players etc. Like you mentioned. I have used k lite now for years and never have problems. In fact when i test a new program and it messes my computer thumbs i just reinstall k lite and its back to normal.

Also most recent computers i have worked on recently have later handlers and codecs and dont have a problem with many videos except maybe mkv because it is becoming more important only recently to have mkv thumbs as mkv becomes more and more popular. I cant speak about windows 8 or 10 factory install tho since i still stick to 7.

[jagabo]

I'd thought that I read guides HERE about adding the cover to the attachments tab and being able to see them. That only works for me if every windows computer that looks at that file has Icaros installed.

It's almost certain that anyone who said you didn't need third party software to view cover art in MKV files with Win10 was simply mistaken. They didn't realize that some third party software they had already installed was giving them that ability. Microsoft didn't support MKV at all before Win10 and the current support is very rudimentary.

[Steve01351]

I'd thought that I read guides HERE about adding the cover to the attachments tab and being able to see them. That only works for me if every windows computer that looks at that file has Icaros installed.

It's almost certain that anyone who said you didn't need third party software to view cover art in MKV files with Win10 was simply mistaken. They didn't realize that some third party software they had already installed was giving them that ability. Microsoft didn't support MKV at all before Win10 and the current support is very rudimentary.

I'm sure that they were. Or maybe the computer that they were using already had Icaros (or another handler) installed.

[Steve01351]

Just adding another 2 cents worth... i also tried a codec pack years ago also and another when it hosed my computer, and then another and another. OMG it really hosed it up with players etc. Like you mentioned. I have used k lite now for years and never have problems. In fact when i test a new program and it messes my computer thumbs i just reinstall k lite and its back to normal.

Also most recent computers i have worked on recently have later handlers and codecs and dont have a problem with many videos except maybe mkv because it is becoming more important only recently to have mkv thumbs as mkv becomes more and more popular. I cant speak about windows 8 or 10 factory install tho since i still stick to 7.

I've been wracking my brain since yesterday trying to remember why I decided on MKV for a "format of choice". I mean, I was trying to decide on a single movie file format for simplicitiy's sake and the choice came down to either MP4 or MKV. Since both are container formats, there just aren't quality issues to consider (at least as far as I know). I decided on MKV but I have no idea why. More and more movies I see are already in the MKV format too. There has to be a reason - I've just no idea what it is.

[jagabo]

Or maybe the computer that they were using already had Icaros (or another handler) installed.

You say that as if Icaros isn't third party software. Icaros IS third party software.

[Steve01351]

Or maybe the computer that they were using already had Icaros (or another handler) installed.

You say that as if Icaros isn't third party software. Icaros IS third party software.

Oh, FFS. No, I don't. I said maybe the computer they were using had had it INSTALLED. As in it wasn't part of the OS. I'm not sure why you think it's either warranted or welcome to talk down to me and be preachy, but I assure you it's neither. The guides I talked about about using MKVToolnix to mux visible cover art came from ***this*** site. Warnings about the danger and problems involved in installing codec packs are all over the web.

You REALLY need to get over yourself.

[leonsk]

The guides I talked about about using MKVToolnix to mux visible cover art came from ***this*** site. Warnings about the danger and problems involved in installing codec packs are all over the web.

Then why don't you just follow those guides you've been going on about (which apparently can't be wrong) and stop wasting the time of those who are trying to help you.
And I think we've had enough of this codec pack BS, in fact I strongly urge you to never install a codec pack.

[Steve01351]

I DID try and follow all of those guides. Which is something you'd know if you bothered to actually read instead of joining the snarky and clueless team.

I made ***ONE*** comment about what *I'D HEARD* about installing codec packs. I got jumped all over by some other clown from the snarky and clueless team.

ONE. You CAN count, right?

And you DO know what the name of this forum is. Right?

Chill out. You sound like that other guy - like a 13 year old kid with more attitude than either manners or common sense.