Convert Color Matrix of MOV File

[koberulz]

I have a PSD, which I've imported into After Effects and used in a comp. I've exported the comp as an RGB + Alpha PNG MOV file. Imported both into Premiere, but they're different colors - the MOV has much brighter reds.

Taking a stab at it, I put the MOV through this AviSynth script:

qtinput("source.mov")
ColorMatrix(mode="rec.601->rec.709",interlaced=true)
ConverttoRGB32(matrix="rec.601",interlaced=true)

Output as RGBA Lagarith. This solved the color problem, but I no longer had an alpha channel.

So, I went to ffmpeg:

ffmpeg -i "file.mov" -pix_fmt rgba -c:v rawvideo -an "file.avi"

Then AviSynth:

AVISource("file.avi")
a = last
MergeARGB(a.ShowAlpha(),a.showBlue(),a.showGreen(),a.showRed())
b = last
mask = b.ShowAlpha()
ConverttoYUY2()
ColorMatrix(mode="rec.709->rec.601",interlaced=true)
ConverttoRGB32(matrix="rec601",interlaced=true)
y = last
MergeARGB(mask.ShowAlpha(),y.showRed(),y.showGreen(),y.showBlue())

But that still has the color issue. Same if I add "return b" at the end.

This is just Googling and throwing the results at it, I don't really know what I'm doing...how can I fix this?

[SameSelf]

Sounds like the infamous gamma issue associated with Quicktime on PCs. Why are you using an MOV container? That is a strange way to export comps imo. Two thoughts:

1. Export your comp as a PNG or TIFF image sequence. Basically what I am saying is you should export your AE comp as RGB. Judging from your posted scripts, it sounds like you are exporting as YUV from AE. Color shifts are tricky when passing between applications. It is especially tricky since AE operates in RGB space while PP operates in YUV space. Fortunately, PP can handle PNG and TIFF sequences fine and so can ffmpeg/x264.

2. Export as a UYVY AVI. I seem to recall this was one of the lossless pathways between AE and PP.

[poisondeathray]

I suspect you didn't export it correctly or messed up some settings; QT PNG should have worked in RGBA mode. You can also try QT animation codec

When you use QTInput in avisynth the default output "YUY2" , use RGB32 (color=2)

see
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/QTSource

But the image sequence suggestion will work as well, as any RGBA AVI intermediate such as lagarith etc... directly from AE

[sneaker]

Yep, ColorMatrix() works in YUV. So if you exported to RGB and you don't have RGB after QTinput() there's already been something wrong going on.

use RGB32 (color=2)

The doc you linked says color 2 is YUY2.

[poisondeathray]

Yep, ColorMatrix() works in YUV. So if you exported to RGB and you don't have RGB after QTinput() there's already been something wrong going on.

use RGB32 (color=2)

The doc you linked says color 2 is YUY2.

yes 1 is RGB32, thanks for correction

Or another option is l-smash

[poisondeathray]

Or just dynamic link AE to PP (!)

[koberulz]

Sounds like the infamous gamma issue associated with Quicktime on PCs. Why are you using an MOV container? That is a strange way to export comps imo.

*shrug* That's the way I've always done it. Someone somewhere said to do it that way, so I did.

1. Export your comp as a PNG or TIFF image sequence.

Isn't that going to lead to an incredibly crowded folder/project panel? I've only got a handful of comps at a few seconds each here, but I certainly wouldn't want to do that with the two-hour comp I have for a different project.

2. Export as a UYVY AVI. I seem to recall this was one of the lossless pathways between AE and PP.

Does that allow an alpha channel?

EDIT: Output as RGBA Lagarith, and it's still a different color.

[poisondeathray]

EDIT: Output as RGBA Lagarith, and it's still a different color.

Directly exported from AE ?

Then likely something is wrong with your setup .

Do you have color management enabled in AE ?

Do a small test, export a single PNG out and import into PP to check

[raffriff42]

Try this

AVISource("file.avi") ## RGB32

## save alpha
A=ShowAlpha("YV12")

## 601->709
ConvertToYV24(matrix="Rec709")
ConvertToRGB32(matrix="Rec601")

## merge original alpha
MergeARGB(A, Last, Last, Last)
return Last

EDIT removed interlaced=true. It has no effect on RGB<>YV24 conversions anyway.

[koberulz]

Try this

AVISource("file.avi") ## RGB32

## save alpha
A=ShowAlpha("YV12")

## 601->709
ConvertToYV24(matrix="Rec709")
ConvertToRGB32(matrix="Rec601")

## merge original alpha
MergeARGB(A, Last, Last, Last)
return Last

EDIT removed interlaced=true. It has no effect on RGB<>YV24 conversions anyway.

That's definitely better, but still not quite right.

[raffriff42]

Something is definitely not right. How is a color shift even happening with RGBA?

I assume AE has internal colorbars. Export those and verify that they import into Premiere without color shift.
If not, you need to make some adjustments to your export settings, your import settings, or both.

I don't know why you're going through a MOV. Adobe recommends:
https://helpx.adobe.com/after-effects/using/export-effects-project-premiere-pro.html
https://helpx.adobe.com/after-effects/using/importing-effects-premiere-pro.html

[poisondeathray]

Yep, something is definitely wrong with your setup. RGB should be the same color in AE and PP, especially an AVI exported from AE on a windows setup, unless you have color management settings messed up . ALL the problems occur when you have YUV <=> RGB conversion . RGB to RGB never has those problems unless you have color management messed up , tags, or LUTs applied

There is quality loss and rounding errors everything you use colormatrix, or convert between YUV<=>RGB. So I would try to get it working properly in the first place.

In your first post, you said you "solved" it, but without alpha. Well a workaround until you get it sorted out would be to use a separate alpha and track matte in premiere

If you still wanted to go the avisynth route, to use RGBA (instead of RGB + separate A), use the script that you said gave correct colors without alpha, and add the alpha back into the script

qtinput("source.mov")
ColorMatrix(mode="rec.601->rec.709",interlaced=true)
ConverttoRGB24(matrix="rec601",interlaced=true)
main=last

a=qtinput("source.mov", color=1).showalpha()

mergeargb(a,main,main,main)

[koberulz]

No, that still doesn't work; it's about the same as raffriff's solution. The changing background must have just obscured the smaller color change.

The AE project is color managed as SDTV PAL, as is the PSD used to generate the composition (everything was initially done for DVD, now I'm going back and doing a Blu-Ray...and yes, I realise that's the wrong way to do it but the Blu-Ray wasn't in the initial plan).

[SameSelf]

Have you tried a PNG/TIFF image sequence, yet? I know—for the unwashed—200,000 files in a folder sounds like a nightmare, but it is not that bad really. PP will import them as a single clip automatically. If not, just make sure the image sequence checkbox in the import dialog is ticked. Scrubbing and playback is only limited by your storage speed since no decoding is required. There is a reason that professional vfx artists use image sequences instead of encoded formats, like when you need to hold an alpha channel. It is the default format that all compositing and finishing programs (AE, nuke, scratch, resolve, etc.) actually expect. So whoever told you to export your comps from AE in that manner didn't know what they were talking about.

I am not aware of any color shift issues that arise from using PNG, TIFF, openEXR, DPX, etc. Also, image sequences offer the rather nice benefit of enabling you to restart a render from where you left off if for some reason the render crashes. I use linear half float openEXR for my comps when round tripping. However, PP does not recognize openEXR which is why I have eschewed mentioning it (I no longer use PP as my NLE). Plus, working with linear formats is difficult unless you can apply LUTs easily.

If you are working with a lot with comps in AE, you need to spend some time testing your workflows with colorbars and learning some about color science and color management. For example, make sure you have AE set to 32 bpc. I think it defaults to 8 bit. If you are doing any color critical work, you always want 32 bpc enabled. Dynamically linking AE to PP is ok for lite vfx, but unless you have a really powerful machine, rendering out is often unavoidable. I could go on, but bottomline, spend some time testing and learning, you will be glad you did. The fact that you noticed a color shift is a good thing, so now the task is to improve your workflows!

[koberulz]

A PNG sequence, apart from not being able to replace the existing AVI file (which is used dozens of times across three sequences; redoing all that would be hell), is right back to the first color set. So, worse than the raffriff script.

I have a hex color picker sitting around, so: the PNG sequence displays #E62618, the raffriff avi is #D91A0B, and the PSD is #C9291F. Those aren't the only colors, but it's the biggest area of difference.

I know—for the unwashed—200,000 files in a folder sounds like a nightmare, but it is not that bad really.

Subfolders for each file though, right?

linear half float openEXR...round tripping...LUTs easily.

...wut?

For example, make sure you have AE set to 32 bpc. I think it defaults to 8 bit.

It was indeed set to 8, although I swear I remember setting it to 16. I was told not to bother with 32 unless I had 32bpc sources. I do remember the source of that claim, it was VideoCopilot's 'Intro to After Effects'. That may have been the place I got mov exports from, come to think of it.

unless you have a really powerful machine, rendering out is often unavoidable.

Yeah, the two-hour comp I mentioned earlier is a scoreboard and clock for a basketball game. I've been RAM-previewing to time the clock to the refs' whistles and it's sooooooo slow. Although it occurs to me now I could manually enter timecodes after finding the right frames by watching the clip in Premiere. Although constantly alt-tabbing and having to sort through that might get more tiresome than killing a couple of minutes.

The fact that you noticed a color shift is a good thing

Well, the AE comp is an animation to bring in a logo, which is then held in place by the PSD. It was the change in color at the handover point that caught my eye, rather than it merely looking different.

[poisondeathray]

So you were wrong about "solved" the color problem in the 1st post ?



I probably don't have to say this , but your project organization is a mess. I would seriously consider starting over

But did you try dynamic link as suggested earlier ? It should fix everything . Everything gets transformed to Rec709, sent as Rec709, at least in CC

Color management and Dynamic Link

When color management is enabled for an After Effects project, compositions viewed over Dynamic Link are transformed using the Rec. 709 color profile. This prevents color or gamma shifts in the appearance of these compositions in Premiere Pro and Adobe Media Encoder.

Dynamic Link always assumes that all incoming frames are in Rec. 709. A color transformation is applied to the composition as a last step before the images are passed to Dynamic Link for use in Premiere Pro or Adobe Media Encoder. This corrects the composition image to the color space used by Dynamic Link, similar to how the View > Enable Display Color Management option in After Effects corrects the image for your monitor.

[SameSelf]

I know—for the unwashed—200,000 files in a folder sounds like a nightmare, but it is not that bad really.

Subfolders for each file though, right?

linear half float openEXR...round tripping...LUTs easily.

...wut?

No, the files will be written to a single folder. So when you click on the folder in an explorer window it will just look like a typical folder with thousands of pics but with a frame number.

As for your second question about openEXR and LUTs, don't sweat it. If you ever reach the point where you need a LUT, you will know it when you need it

[koberulz]

So you were wrong about "solved" the color problem in the 1st post ?

Evidently, yes. It's just a lot closer, so the change in background (due to the lack of alpha channel) obviously disguised the change in the shade of red.

I probably don't have to say this , but your project organization is a mess. I would seriously consider starting over

Bahahahaha no, I am not spending hours re-masking something that finicky. raffriff's avi is live-withable, if that's the choice I have to make.

Although I went back and checked the SD Premiere sequences, and there's also a slight color change there (AVI #E02617, PSD #C92A1E). So, not an SD/HD issue anyway. Not sure what other issues you might take with my project.

But did you try dynamic link as suggested earlier ? It should fix everything .

It's the same as the PNG sequence, which is worse than raffriff's solution.

No, the files will be written to a single folder. So when you click on the folder in an explorer window it will just look like a typical folder with thousands of pics but with a frame number.

I mean, I should create a subfolder for each comp I output. Rather than dropping them all in the one folder as they are now, which would make it impossible to find anything after the first one.

It also assumes the PNG sequence is 29.97fps progressive, even though I'm outputting as 25fps interlaced.

[koberulz]

The other possibility is that it's the PSD file that is shifting color.

[SameSelf]

This sounds dubious to me. While I rarely use PS for video editing (it is not stable enough ime), I have never noticed a color shift. What exactly is your workflow and why are you using PS? What are you importing into PS? Personally, I would export a TIFF/PNG rather than a PSD. I would still save the PSD, but use the TIFF/PNG in my timeline/comp.

Also, you need to do some explicit testing of your workflow rather than just guessing. Load some colorbars into PS and follow your workflow all the way to PP. Scope the bars up in PP and see if there is a color shift.

[koberulz]

Although I went back and checked the SD Premiere sequences, and there's also a slight color change there (AVI #E02617, PSD #C92A1E).

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but I just checked the AE comp: #EA2617.

So none match, but the SD AVI is bloody close (apparently I exported AVIs instead of MOVs when I was doing that). The SD comp, however, is #E52617, which also matches the PSD in Photoshop.

PSDs PS: #E52617

SD Export: #E02617
HD Export: #E62618

SD AE Comp: #E52617
HD AE Comp: #EA2617

SD PSD PP: #C92A1E
HD PSD PP: #C9291F

raffriff's AVS: #D91A0B

So it appears most of the shift is actually with the PSD file importing into Premiere, with a tiny amount of shift occurring with everything else both in and out of AE except the SD version going in.

I don't know how to 'scope the bars up', or how to generate them in PS.

I'm using PS to create a logo that sits in the corner of the screen. I've imported the PS into AE to create a couple of animations for it.



EDIT: Saved a PNG, pulled it into Premiere...problem solved. Both are now #E62618. Which is weird, because it's still the PNG sequence created from the PSD in AE.

[SameSelf]

So none match, but the SD AVI is bloody close...

EDIT: Saved a PNG, pulled it into Premiere...problem solved. Both are now #E62618. Which is weird, because it's still the PNG sequence created from the PSD in AE.

I am having a hard time following your workflow. Sounds like this:

Create a logo from scratch in Photoshop (don't import any additional layers) -> Save As PSD -> Open PSD in AE -> Animate PSD in a comp -> Render out as PNG -> Import PNG sequence into PP -> No more color shift?

Whereas before: Render out of AE as AVI/MOV or whatever -> Import into PP -> Color shift?

Also, by scoping up I meant, looking at your timeline in PP using one of PP's built in scopes. I keep a Reference Monitor window up at all times for this very purpose. PS and AE don't have built in scopes but that is why color bars are useful because the RGB values are well defined and useful for detecting problems.

[koberulz]

When the logo is just sitting in the corner not doing anything, I don't need an AE comp. So I imported the PSD into Premiere and used it as a still image. I went back to Photoshop, saved the PSD as a PNG, and imported that into Premiere and now all the colors are the same. I didn't change anything relating to the AE comp.

So I'm using an AE comp to animate the logo in, the PNG (previously the PSD) to just have it sit there, and then an AE comp to animate it out.

I don't even know what a scope is.

[SameSelf]

That is strange that importing the PSD results in a color shift while the PNG does not. I have never really used a PSD in a timeline before but, when you say animate the logo, are you talking about some sort of fade in/fade out? If so, you don't need AE for that. You can just apply a video effect like cross dissolve in PP to the logo in the timeline. Even more complex animation is easy with keyed effects e.g. fly ins/outs, rotations, scaling, etc. I can't think of too many reasons for why a simple logo would require AE.

Also, PP has basically all the same text design functionality that PS has. It is found by clicking New Item then Title. Even though I no longer use PP as my NLE, I still use PP extensively for making titles, credits, etc. because the text design tools are simply that good, even better than AE. It is super easy to add drop shadows, outlines, color ramps, and so on.

As for "vectorscopes", click on the Lossless Workflows thread link in my signature, and you will see many a screenshot of vectorscopes and why they are critical to diagnosing color problems in a workflow.

[koberulz]

Ah, vectorscopes. Yes, those I'm familiar with.

The logo itself is just an .eps imported into Photoshop, placed, and lined up with a couple of other elements. It has to appear partly underneath an existing logo, which itself animates out, as well as sometimes being partially hidden by other animating elements on the original footage. So there's a whole lot of frame-by frame masking of individual layers; it's not something you could do in Premiere (or, at least, not in the amount of time it took).