The PC is Dead

[SameSelf]

Disco is a dead duck.
8 track tape is dead.
Betamax is officially dead.
Laserdisc is dead.
VHS is dead.
Super 8 was dead?

We need a cemetery and some wooden stakes for the vampires that refuse to die.

[filmboss80]

Disco merely evolved. Terrible dance music still exists.
8 track tape died...because something much better and equally affordable came along.
Betamax died...because something much better and equally affordable came along.
Laserdisc died...because something much better and equally affordable came along.
VHS died...because something much better and equally affordable came along.
The resurrection of Super 8 is a fad that won't last...because something much better, much more practical, and ultimately more affordable is abundant in supply. (And this comes from someone who was a Super 8 hobbyist as a kid.)

There is no need for wooden stakes. Most things die natural deaths. Who are you to dictate to the rest of us the things that should be eliminated before their time?

Though absolutely impractical in the portability and space-saving departments, the PC still holds advantages over laptops and tablets in terms of power, screen and keyboard size, and build-your-own customization. Like all things, the PC will die one day...when something much better in all areas comes along. But until you fully understand WHY some things become obsolete while other things persist, you will not be able to offer insights that others can take seriously.

[usually_quiet]

In early 2014 one could buy an ASRock AMD motherboard with an M.2 slot built in, and it could use an M.2 SSD as its boot drive if the right one was installed. http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/8-pcie-sata-m-2-ssds-test-asrocks-new-fatal1ty...d-motherboard/

Two bootable PCI-e SSDs for desktops were tested in late 2013: http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/ioswitch-raijin-m-2-pcie-ssd-review-plextor-m6...boot-features/

SameSelf apparently didn't bother to do much research before he wrote his first post. If someone was willing to pay the asking price, it was possible for them to use an M.2 SSD as their desktop boot drive much sooner than 2015.

[SameSelf]

SameSelf apparently didn't bother to do much research before he wrote his first post.

uq, you are now just trolling. Shame on you. If I could, I would throw my shoe at you.

Go back an read my OP. pcie ssd's and the M.2 interface are Exhibit Number 1. I am not about to repeat myself.

[usually_quiet]

SameSelf apparently didn't bother to do much research before he wrote his first post.

uq, you are now just trolling. Shame on you. If I could, I would throw my shoe at you.

Go back an read my OP. pcie ssd's and the M.2 interface are Exhibit Number 1. I am not about to repeat myself.

I did read it, and how does pointing out that you have your facts wrong constitute trolling? Furthermore, you demanded that I comment on your silly "take" on new technology, so you are merely getting what you asked for.

Be glad this isn't a shoe-throwing situation. If it were you would have been buried under a pile of them some time ago for engaging in this kind of childish behavior whenever someone points out the flaws in your arguments.

I can post what you wrote, since you cannot be bothered.

Fast forward to October 2015, Samsung unveils an ssd that uses the pcie interface and SATA Express is dead. Why is this relevant? Well, the pcie ssd actually was borrowed from the mobile space. The first pcie ssd appeared in ultrabooks more than two years ago. Many new, desktop motherboards sport the M.2 connector which makes no sense on a desktop because it lays flat or flush with the PCB versus perpendicular like a pcie card. Also, don't think for a second that you can just grab one of these beasts and pop it into a spare pcie slot. Unless you have the latest chipsets, you won't be able to boot from the device. Bottomline, the pcie ssd is a mobile technology. Watching it find its way into the desktop space over the last two years is like watching paint dry. Very frustrating for those of us used to cutting edge technology driving the desktop space.

You are once again guilty of narrow, presumptive thinking with respect to the M.2 connector. It makes little sense to insist that M.2 devices must be installed perpendicular to the motherboard on a desktop PC. Historically, add on cards have been installed perpendicular to the motherboard, but that doesn't mean a small component like an M.2 stick has to be installed the same way. A parallel orientation provides the ability to install the identical component in either a laptop or desktop without modification or daughter boards for physical support. If there is space to do it, why not?

Adding M.2 via a connector on the motherboard was a quick and easy way to add a small capacity "cheap" PCI-e SSD to a desktop for gaming enthusiasts. However, M.2 can also be used to add wireless cards, bluetooth cards, and possibly other small devices, so they might be retained on some high-end desktop motherboards for that reason after small M.2 SSDs become passe. Larger capacity SSD need heat sinks and fans because they get very hot very quickly, but the cost of a large AIC-type SSDs would have been so prohibitive just a couple of years ago that supporting their use boot drives in the consumer realm made little sense.

You implied that there were no bootable M.2 SSDs for desktop PCs until 2015. That is demonstrably untrue. If a motherboard's BIOS can be configured so that it sees an M.2 SSD as a bootable device and lists it in the boot order, then it can be used as a system drive. As is sometimes the case with cutting-edge hardware, installing an M.2 SSD as a boot drive wasn't plug-and-play, but if someone had the right M,2 SSD and the right desktop motherboard in 2014, it could be done.

M.2 connectors began appearing on motherboards in 2014. The ASRock’s Fatal1ty 990FX Killer AM3+ motherboard released in early 2014 has an M.2 slot. http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/8-pcie-sata-m-2-ssds-test-asrocks-new-fatal1ty...d-motherboard/ Intel Z97 motherboards with M.2 slots soon followed. The makers of these motherboards must have had some reason to suspect that consumer M.2 devices would soon be available to fill it. Some 2014 motherboards are able to boot from an M.2 SSD.

The Plextor M6e M.2 SSDs, which received a fair amount of coverage in the spring of 2014, was designed to be bootable. The Marvell controller on the Plextor M6e M.2 SSDs support both UEFI and legacy BIOS booting. There were also PCI-e cards available sporting a Plextor M6e M.2 SSD for motherboards without an M.2 slot. In addition, there was the Samsung XP941, which was not bootable using a legacy BIOS, but in some cases was bootable via UEFI. http://www.anandtech.com/show/8006/samsung-ssd-xp941-review-the-pcie-era-is-here/3

Here's a review of the ASRock Z97 Extreme6 where a Samsung XP941 M.2 was successfully installed as a boot drive in UEFI mode. http://www.anandtech.com/show/8045/asrock-z97-extreme6-review-ultra-m2-x4-tested-with-xp941/11

Puget Systems tested Samsung and the Plextor M.2 SSDs with a number of motherboards using an adapter. Several desktop boards were able to recognize it as a boot drive without a lot of extra work. https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-XP941-Plextor-PX-G256-M6e-M-2-Qualification-575/

[SameSelf]

You are once again guilty of narrow, presumptive thinking with respect to the M.2 connector. It makes little sense to insist that M.2 devices must be installed perpendicular to the motherboard on a desktop PC.

Goodness, that is a long post and I confess to being guilty of tldr because being called "childish" falls into the ad hominem category and detracts me from your message.

But I give you a gold star to being the first person to actually engage in my "narrow, presumptive thinking" regarding pcie ssd and the M.2 connector. So here is what I will say:

If you think for one second that installing an M.2 ssd flush is the brainchild of some forward thinking PC mobo designer, you're dreaming. Mobo space is extremely crowded. I could squeeze two vertical ssd in the same space as a flush ssd, a la banks of RAM. But the main reason I cite this is to drive home the point that M.2 was borrowed from the mobile space versus the other way around. Mobile devices operate on the flush principle for obvious reasons, not vertical. SATA Express was supposed to supersede SATAIII in the desktop space. But guess what? After feeble attempts to get it going: SATA Express is dead, just like disco.

Over and out

EDIT: Okay I glanced through the rest of your post. I read all those reviews when they came out. None of it changes my thinking because I was 100% aware of all of it when I created this thread more than 5 months ago. In fact they formed the basis of my comments. If you have some original thinking to share besides posting links I have read or name calling, I am all ears.

P.S. It may have taken you five months, but I am glad to see you finally caught up.

[usually_quiet]

EDIT: Okay I glanced through the rest of your post. I read all those reviews when they came out. None of it changes my thinking because I was 100% aware of all of it when I created this thread more than 5 months ago. In fact they formed the basis of my comments. If you have some original thinking to share besides posting links I have read or name calling, I am all ears.

P.S. It may have taken you five months, but I am glad to see you finally caught up.

Your post was too childish to read in its entirety, so I skipped to the end.

This thread started on November 11, 2015. November, December, January, February... That is four months, even rounding up generously. (Really three months and 7 days). I know innumeracy is rampant these days, but I never thought I would encounter someone who cannot count months correctly.

[mike20021969]

This thread started on November 11, 2015

It started on 10th November 2015

[usually_quiet]

This thread started on November 11, 2015

It started on 10th November 2015

The forum time stamp on the initial post currently says 11th Nov 2015, 00:26 for me and no doubt some others in the USA.

[Edit]The post Sameself was referring to is currently time stamped 18th Feb 2016 19:54. If you want to round up to the nearest day, then 3 months and 8 days passed between those posts. That is still not 5 months.

[El Heggunte]

^ The time-zone hell is another idiocy that should have been killed decades ago.

Just an an example, the beginning of a new year is celebrated 24 times during an interval of 24 hours...

Completely stupid, if we have to be honest.

Also, intercontinental flights and GPS have worked as they should because there is only one UTC.

[SameSelf]

This thread started on November 11, 2015

It started on 10th November 2015

LOL, some people enjoy being anal. No point in arguing.

[usually_quiet]

A motherboard with a native U.2 connector, the ASUS ROG Maximus VII Impact, was released last year. Perhaps this means M.2 is already on its way out as a high-speed SSD connection on desktops. However, the U.2 connection isn't as friendly to laptops as the M.2 connection because it uses cables.

Of course SameSelf may decide U.2 on desktops is an indication that the laptop is dead, since this SSD connection came to the desktop by way of servers and Enterprise SSDs.

[usually_quiet]

^ The time-zone hell is another idiocy that should have been killed decades ago.

Just an an example, the beginning of a new year is celebrated 24 times during an interval of 24 hours...

Completely stupid, if we have to be honest.

Also, intercontinental flights and GPS have worked as they should because there is only one UTC.

We won't get rid of time zone hell completely unless human biology changes drastically. Most of us are biologically hardwired to be more alert and productive during daylight hours.

[hello_hello]

I don't see how you could get rid of time zone hell or what it'd achieve if you did. If it was the same time everywhere, for some people sunrise might be at 6am and somewhere else it'd rise at 8.30PM, and maybe you'd get used to that, but instead of asking questions like "what time is it in Australia" you'd need to know what hours people in Australia are awake and doing business.... which you can thanks to time zones..... once you know what the time difference is.

There's only one GMT. I'm not sure how that's different to UTC.

[usually_quiet]

There's only one GMT. I'm not sure how that's different to UTC.

They are pretty much the same thing. Some people don't like the reference to the Greenwich Meridian in GMT. It is too anglocentric for their taste.

[SameSelf]

Another example of how they are doing it better, faster and cheaper in mobile. The desktop is so dead.

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-introduces-industrys-first-256-gigabyte-univer...mobile-devices

[usually_quiet]

Another example of how they are doing it better, faster and cheaper in mobile. The desktop is so dead.

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-introduces-industrys-first-256-gigabyte-univer...mobile-devices

The article mentioned USB 3.0 on a smart phone, for the first time. It has been available on the desktop for about 6 years. Smart phones are sure leading the way in new tech.

Mobile CPUs are so slow and feeble that they need fast storage to make them appear to be more capable, but try editing and encoding some 4K video on one.

The desktop is nowhere near as dead as your reputation here. You are the new newpball.

[SameSelf]

I dont have the bandwidth to pay attention to people thrashing strawmen and ignoring what's going on in the mobile space.

Better. Cheaper. Faster.

End of story.

[usually_quiet]

I dont have the bandwidth to pay attention to people thrashing strawmen and ignoring what's going on in the mobile space.

Better. Cheaper. Faster.

End of story.

The product in your link is neither better nor faster than Samsung's best current 2.5" desktop SSD. Only smaller and possibly cheaper.

From your link.

In terms of sequential writing, it supports up to 260MB/s, which is approximately three times faster than high-performance external micro SD cards.

A description of Samsungs fastest desktop SSD (not their NMVe SSD) from http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/950-pro-review-samsungs-first-pcie-m-2-nvme-ssd...olute-monster/

Samsungs Samsung’s current flagship 2.5-inch SATA SSD, the 850 Pro, is probably the most advanced SATA drive on the market. With 32-layer V-NAND, read and write performance that hovers around 550MB/sec, a 10-year warranty, and capacities that go up to 2TB (and a 4TB model due out next year)

260MB/s is not faster than 550MB/sec. Once again, you misrepresented the facts.

[SameSelf]

This announcement by Samsung marks the first UFS 2.0 2-lane interface solution which, unlike UFS 2.0 1-lane interface, has twice the theoretical bandwidth at 1.2 GB/s and is a milestone in their roadmap towards UFS 4.0 2-lane.

The PC is dead.

[El Heggunte]

SameSelf is dead

[usually_quiet]

This announcement by Samsung marks the first UFS 2.0 2-lane interface solution which, unlike UFS 2.0 1-lane interface, has twice the theoretical bandwidth at 1.2 GB/s and is a milestone in their roadmap towards UFS 4.0 2-lane.

The PC is dead.

PCi-e 2.0 X4, PCI-e 3.0 X4, U.2 and M.2, already available for desktop PCs, are capable of faster speeds than 1.2 GB/s. The smart phone is still a long way behind the desktop.

SameSelf's reputation at VideoHelp is dead.

[hello_hello]

I dont have the bandwidth to pay attention to people thrashing strawmen and ignoring what's going on in the mobile space.

Better. Cheaper. Faster.

End of story.

If I had a dollar for every time I've seen someone cry bandwidth poor in a forum after losing a discussion, I'd have many, many dollars.
If I had a dollar for every time I've seen someone use an accusation such as "strawman" in a forum, apparently completely oblivious to the fact they're looking in a mirror, many dollars would I have.
If I had a dollar for every time I've witnessed an astounding display of hypocrisy in a forum, such as a poster ignoring anything that doesn't suit his argument, often sighting bandwidth restrictions as justification, only to later accuse someone else of ignoring his argument, I'd have enough dollars to last several lifetimes.
If I had a dollar for every time I've seen someone use "end of story" to finish a forum post, as though it hides the fact their horse is long dead yet they're still flogging it relentlessly, I'd have many, many dollars to burn.

[orsetto]

Another example of how they are doing it better, faster and cheaper in mobile. [...]

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-introduces-industrys-first-256-gigabyte-univer...mobile-devices

Personally, I wish they would have promoted a dirt cheap 64GB or 128GB version at least two years earlier, even if it wasn't blinding fast. The asinine greed of some mobile mfrs, who stubbornly stuck to incredibly limited 16GB or 32GB standard phone models until very recently, fostered the equally annoying "personal cloud" nonsense to compensate. Most people, esp in "emerging markets", prefer local storage so they can access their music, videos, and photos with or without a signal connection. A big selling feature for "smartphones" is the all-in-one factor, yet the price of a current phone that can match the storage capacity of a prehistoric midrange 2007 iPod remains out of reach for many. Yeah, some let you add a cheap MicroSD card, but the cards are klugy and desirable models of Nexus, iPhone & Galaxy are sealed (so 32GB max forever). Tim Cook should be stuffed in the urn with Steve Jobs for perpetuating the insanely inflated prices of 64GB products: its 2016, memory is cheap, knock off the gouging already.

If anything should be "dead" its sealed-back phones with thin useless batteries and 16GB/32GB storage limits.

[vhelp]

Yeah, some let you add a cheap MicroSD card, but the cards are klugy and desirable models of Nexus, iPhone & Galaxy are sealed (so 32GB max forever).

yeah, i agree. what i hate reading about, is where people keep saying the same thing.. that you can "extend" the memory by adding additional mem cards to double the memory, when in fact, this is incorrect. You can not extend, for example, a 16GB device into 48GB or any other mem configuration, to double or triple the memory. all you are doing is adding another "drive" to the unit. it is not the same thing. I have many tablets, an 8GB, 16GB and 32GB ones. When I add a SD card to it, it creates a new drive. it does not add to the main drive. anyway. i just wanted to finally get this out so that people can start phrasing the correctness of this memory add-on misconception.

[johns0]

You can use at least a 64gb card in those tablets,just need to format it to fat32 first.

[MJPollard]

yeah, i agree. what i hate reading about, is where people keep saying the same thing.. that you can "extend" the memory by adding additional mem cards to double the memory, when in fact, this is incorrect. You can not extend, for example, a 16GB device into 48GB or any other mem configuration, to double or triple the memory. all you are doing is adding another "drive" to the unit. it is not the same thing. I have many tablets, an 8GB, 16GB and 32GB ones. When I add a SD card to it, it creates a new drive. it does not add to the main drive. anyway. i just wanted to finally get this out so that people can start phrasing the correctness of this memory add-on misconception.

Except that Android 6.0 (aka Marshmallow) does allow this. On devices that support it, SD cards can be handled two ways: the traditional way (treated like a separate drive), or reformatted by the system and used to extend total storage capacity. Not all phones will allow this, though, even with Android 6.0: the upcoming Galaxy S7 brings back the SD card (missing in the Galaxy S6), but even though it'll be running Marshmallow, it will not support the extended storage scheme (a conscious decision by Samsung).

[SameSelf]

Seems vendors are holding their collective breath that the end of free Windows 10 upgrades will breathe new life into the PC market. Hahaha

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS41584116

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160711006385/en/Gartner-Worldwide-PC-Shipments...ed-5.2-Percent

[-Habanero-]

Better. Cheaper. Faster.

Nobody. F!@#ing. Cares.

Except usually_quiet, apparently. God bless his patience.

[ron spencer]

I just threw out all of our PCs....what should I buy now?