Files too large ?

[Tafflad]

Having had help here it getting files into my video editor (loads of issues on ts streams)
I'm using Sony Movie Studio Platinum 12 and DVD Arch studio 10

Created my video ... (PAL 19:9 with 5.1 audio)

Total run time 1:55

Step 1 Render audio as Dolby 5.1 (resulting file is 594,159 kB)

Step 2 Enter run time, DVD size, audio type into '<b>Marks Bit Rate Calculator</b>' with 5% safety margin

Step 3 Open Render video template MainConcept > DVD Architect PAL widescreen (no audio)
Change to VBR 2 pass
Set Max to 8,128kB Avg to 4,684kB and min to 2,784kB

Step 4 Render (resulting file is 5,314,832 kB)


Step 5 Load files into DVD Architect and I get Red warning that files are a total of 6.3GB and too big.


What is going wrong ? screen grab below:

[DB83]

All I can think of is that the rec avg INCLUDES audio.

But then I never rely on calculators. Got a 2 hr dvd. I just select 4,000 kbps and it never fails me.

[Tafflad]

Anybody know who Mark is ... I could ping him a mail and find out

[DB83]

I just d/l'd the program and I was wrong about the audio.

The problem is that an average is just that. If your encode demands more, then you will go higher and it may be safer so set a higher minimum and lower maximum and average.

[Tafflad]

Isn't that what the calculator use is for though ? ........... DVD architect reports files are 133% over size ?

Seems way off.

[DB83]

I must also add that the program appears buggy.

Depending on how you enter the variables (manually or by the up/down) you can get different results.

Right now I have 7936,4528,2720

[DB83]

Apart from the video, just look at the difference between your audio and what the calculator says .

[Tafflad]

Not sure what you mean by that .... anyway tried again ... this time Rendered Audio out as Dolby 1 (need one copy which does not need 5.1)
The Bit Rate Calc figures were:

Max 8576
Avg 4904
Min 2936

Everything else as before ...
produces Audio file of 254,637kB
Video file 5,570, 008kB

still way over what should now fit a type 5 disc ?

Marks Bit Rate Calculator shows that it should only be using 4,461,585kB
DVD Architect complains of 131% oversize - and even trying 'fit to disc fails'

Must be something fundamentally wrong here ? even with no menu overheads etc. .... still way out on calculation

[DB83]

But again, just as an example, your audio is 254 mb whereas the calculator shows 165 mb.

I had a thought.

These are the BBC HD recordings ? Have you stripped out the 2nd audio track etc. ?

But 4900 is way to large whatever. As I said earlier, a 2 hr dvd should be nearer to 4000.

I am not familiar with main concept so I just wonder whether part of the problem is the treatment of mb as 1000 kb or 1024 mb

Just a suggestion. Try a different bitrate calculator just to see if it throws out any variation.

[Cornucopia]

Simple rule of Filesize (overall) = Bitrate (average/overall) * Running time (overall) shows that:

1hr55min0sec = 6900sec

4904kb/sec * 6900 sec = 33837600kb = 4229700kB = ~4131MB
add to that
192kb/sec * 6900 sec = 1324800kb = 165600kB = ~162MB
Total = ~4293MB

If you are getting more with the encoder, you are setting something wrong in the encoder.

Do you have Audio included in that template (I usually do not, and encode audio in a separate pass, as IIRC the audio options on the MPEG encoder are only MP2) - in which case you might have 1 Audio file and 1 Video (+Audio) file. But that still wouldn't account for everything.

Make sure you account for x1000 vs. x1024 nomenclature. Capacities & bitrates usually don't match, so you must track the conversion.

Scott

[Tafflad]

No ... audio rendered out separate

I load the Template and only settings I change are to select 2 pass VBR and put in the values from Bit Rate calculator.
I don't convert any numbers.. I set 1kB = 1000 in Bit Rate calculator setting as advised ...
Put in the run time, DVD type 5 and the audio details ..... all all as per screen shot
Then put the Max/Avg/Min values into Sony Vegas I don't convert any numbers .......... output in +30% larger than predicted

[DB83]

Just compare the bitrate of your encode (with mediainfo) to the avg reported by the calculator.

Better still. Post the mediainfo report (text mode). We might just spot the not-so-obvious

[Cornucopia]

Except I have Vegas/DVDA, and if you use their default templates and choose "DVDA PAL (or NTSC) Widescreen...", it by default includes an audio stream in that encode, regardless of you choosing an additional audio-only encode or not. You have to choose to NOT "include audio stream" (un-check box in [Audio] tab).

So, unless you ALSO changed that and didn't mention it, the video might still have an extra audio stream in there.

Scott

[vkmast]

Try to prepare (not burn) the project to a folder on hard disc and see what comes out. DVD Architect S and P often incorrectly estimate the file sizes.

[DB83]

Try to prepare (not burn) the project to a folder on hard disc and see what comes out. DVD Architect S and P often incorrectly estimate the file sizes.

It is plainly obvious, without the input from DVD Architect, that the OPs files are too big for a SS-DVD

[vkmast]

Sorry, I thought I read the OP complained that "DVD Architect complains of 131% oversize".

This question is asked currently in an identical post on the SCS DVDA forum as well.
Seems that poster had similar problems earlier as well.

Did the OP match all the settings in DVD A Project properties correctly?

@Cornucopia,
The MainConcept mpeg-2 DVDA compliant templates do not include the audio stream by default.

[jagabo]

Avg to 4,684kB...resulting file is 5,314,832 kB

The encoder isn't hitting your requested bitrate. You should be getting a file a little over 4 GB. Encoders sometimes screw up like this. All you can do is try a lower bitrate.

[poisondeathray]

Or perhaps try a different encoder / method . One option is to use a lossless intermediate, and another option I think debugmode frameserver works with the studio platinum version of vegas

[Cornucopia]

Sorry, I thought I read the OP complained that "DVD Architect complains of 131% oversize".

This question is asked currently in an identical post on the SCS DVDA forum as well.
Seems that poster had similar problems earlier as well.

Did the OP match all the settings in DVD A Project properties correctly?

@Cornucopia,
The MainConcept mpeg-2 DVDA compliant templates do not include the audio stream by default.

They do on all 4 versions of my copies (v6, 8, 10, 11). Maybe they changed it in most recent version.

Scott

[vkmast]

Cornucopia,
I see you actually meant DVD PAL/NTSC and not DVD A(rchitect) PAL/NTSC.
See the list here.
Anyway, the screengrab shows the OP is using the DVD Architect widescreen DVD template in MSP 12, which has no audio by default.
The same goes for the SCS recommended DVD A(rchitect) templates in all my MSP 10 to 13 and VPro 10 to 13 versions.

[Cornucopia]

No that was just me trying to conserve typing (didn't do any good after all)...

<edit>Just checked...Nevermind. You were right, I was mistaken. I was looking at the DVDA PAL/NTSC template items and NOT the DVDA PAL/NTSC video stream items. Sorry to have sidetracked.</edit>

[Tafflad]

OK ... I found an issue .. (my fault) investigating further - when I looked at Render with MediaInfo it was too long (time wise)

Traked that down to fact I had a spurious marker out at 3.5 Hrs ... so was rendering 3.5 nor 1.55

So run it again first off audio is run at Dolby stereo ac3 192 Kb ... gives file of 160,165Kb
Entered in Marks Bit Rate Calculator
Selected MainConcept DVD Architect PAL Widescreen
Set to VBR 2 pass and entered the Calculator settings - (no audio stream)
Settings are as shown:



Rendered and results in Video file size 4,347,808 Kb

Audio + Video = 4,507,973 Kb

So we are better as no longer ~6Gb ... but when I put these files into DVD Architect, and chose single movie DVD, PAL 16:9 sterepo ac3
It again gives me an 'oversize error File size of 4.8Gb'

So back to same issues why does DVD architect claim, this to be oversized ?
No menus or anything else being added.

The whole point of using DVD Calculator was to ensure it would fit with 5% safety margin.

[Tafflad]

I know there are other programs I could use to make discs .. but would like to find out where I am going wrong.

[vkmast]

OK ... I found an issue .. (my fault) investigating further - when I looked at Render with MediaInfo it was too long (time wise)
---
Traked that down to fact I had a spurious marker out at 3.5 Hrs ... so was rendering 3.5 nor 1.55
---
So we are better as no longer ~6Gb ... but when I put these files into DVD Architect, and chose single movie DVD, PAL 16:9 sterepo ac3
It again gives me an 'oversize error File size of 4.8Gb'
---
So back to same issues why does DVD architect claim, this to be oversized ?
No menus or anything else being added.
---
The whole point of using DVD Calculator was to ensure it would fit with 5% safety margin.

Why indeed, but it would not be the first time.
From SCS,
"Why does DVD Architect sometimes incorrectly report file sizes? (It usually says it’s too large even though it isn’t).
DVD Architect does its best to estimate what the total size of the disc image will be, but it is just an estimate. There is no way to know the actual file size until the disc is prepared."

[DB83]

Rick,

I guess that DVD Architect is taking the maximum size for a menu (1 gig IIRC) since it has nothing else to work with. Can you actually process that latest encode in the program or does it simply refuse to proceed ? If it refuses, then use your calculator to enter menu info which you are not gonna use. That decreases the bitrate and should make the program more friendly.

[jagabo]

Are you rendering to an mpeg 2 elementary stream? VOB files have significant overhead.

[Tafflad]

>Are you rendering to an mpeg 2 elementary stream?
I think so
I'm not selecting anything other than create DVD PAL. 16:9, 25 fps, stereo ac3

It creates a pair of folders - Audio _TS and Video_TS and inside the video one are a bundle of VOB files, BUP, & IFO

I used 'prepare' option ... and although it gave 'media oversize' it did complete without error..

Is there a way of running this 'prepared' DVD without burning to see if it actually works ........ don't really want to start burning coasters

Just checked the files size of combined AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS is 4.15GB

or does this not help is there further overhead to create the disc?

[DB83]

You can test the video_ts folder in vlc

[Tafflad]

OK ... interesting no audio files in the Audio folder

But if I click on the .ifo files then the video plays ............. so does this mean it will fit on disk ?

[DB83]

No.

What is the size of the video_ts folder ?