Best Consumer Video Editing Software for $100

[magillagorilla]

Give me an example. A still.

A still image might be a poor example, because often noise patterns can occur temporally. Good temporal noise filters look at previous and foward frames for noise patterns , tough to see on a static frame

Great point. VHS dropouts and analog noise happens in different places across multiple frames. I have been deinterlaceing using AVISynth then filter chain: levels, color correction, denoise, chroma denoise, deblocking then median filter in VDUB. I think it looks about as good as it can get without totally smearing the frames. AviSynth is by far the best looking deinterlacer I've used. I can't quantify it, it just looks better. There is less smudging and chunking across the frames.

The footage I am working right now is old 8mm film transferred to VHS (uggg!), transferred to my PC via Panny AG-1980P>Happague 1250>HuffyUV (720x480). The best I can do so far is remove the VHS artifacts (static, chroma noise, some dropouts), color correct and use a heavy median filter. The median filter is needed because to the compounded grain. I have film grain which is being stored as VHS grain. I know I can't remove the grain nor do I want to because "grain" is what the image is made from. I do want to remove as much VHS noise as possible.

Before anyone asks, the original film is gone. I'd love to have it resampled but alas, this is not an option.

I'll try and post a sample tonight, sorry but I am really skeptical about Vegas doing a better restoration job. I love Vegas for the final grooming and transcodeing. There are certain errors which are inconsistant across footage, like a camcorder with bad auto white balance moving between different light sources. VDUB applies a filter evenly across all frames. In Vegas I can slowly shift color, gamma and white balance across the frames to suit the needs of the scene. I'm sure there is some way to do that in AviSynth but I also bet it's not as easy. The Main Concept encoders in Vegas are by far the best I have worked with as well.

[Eyedoctor2]

Here's another free alternative:

http://www.vso-software.fr/products/avchd-editor/avchd-editor.php

[jagabo]

VDUB applies a filter evenly across all frames.

You can use the Curve Editor and filter Blending to vary each filter with time. But that doesn't allow you to vary the parameters within the filter with time, just how much a particular filter is blended with the source video. For example, you could perform a fade-in by apply the Fill (full frame with black) filter 100 percent at the start and decrease to 0 percent over several frames. But you couldn't vary, say, the color of the fill over that time.

[handyguy]

There are several free online video editors too. YouTube has one:http://www.youtube.com/editor lol

This looks like fun too:http://jaycut.com/

[budwzr]

budwzr,
What are you doing in Vegas to remove noise?

When I mentioned Gaussian Blur as a noise remover, it would be in the context of something like this:

Whereas the top eye has a halftone pattern that can be likened to noise. The bottom eye has a Gaussian Blur. Certainly in this case the Gaussian blur eye is preferable.

[Grandpa Oddball]

I use all free open source software for video editing and special effects. If you are comfortable with scripts then check out my software list at
http://getoddnews.com/2011/01/20/colorscreenmask/

[magillagorilla]

budwzr,
What are you doing in Vegas to remove noise?

When I mentioned Gaussian Blur as a noise remover, it would be in the context of something like this:

[Attachment 5256 - Click to enlarge]
Whereas the top eye has a halftone pattern that can be likened to noise. The bottom eye has a Gaussian Blur. Certainly in this case the Gaussian blur eye is preferable.

I just read your example. Not to get all philosophical about the word noise, but I guess it's relative. Like weeds; grass in your flower garden is a weed but grass in your yard is not.

Budwzr, all you have managed to do is distort the image of the eye to an image that seems more pleasant to you. The original image, I would argue, had no noise in it to begin with. Blurring does not equal noise reduction. As I put it, the grass in my flower garden is noise. I want to remove the grass. I don't want to make my vision blurry so that the grass in my flower garden is simply more difficult to see.

Look at my example. Video A has chroma and static noise in different places across the frames. What you did is B. What a good de-noiser can do is C.

[Smells_Like_Feet]

magillagorilla,

I love your example. I am a frequent reader of this forum and have tried to find ways of applying filters that execute exactly what you have demonstrated, but I still struggle with the proper use of filters in general. Do you have any recommendations on how to use filters to accomplish option C in your example? What filters are effective in removing the chroma and static noise? Perhaps point to some links on the web that show good tutorials on this subject? I realize this is very open-ended, but any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

- Smells_Like_Feet

[jagabo]

He probably used something like RemoveDirt() in AviSynth.
http://avisynth.org.ru/docs/english/externalfilters/removedirt.htm

[magillagorilla]

For the record, the picture above was all done in MS Paint just to illustrate my point. But I do get dramatic chroma noise reduction very similar to this using the "camcorder noise removal" filter in VDUB. Maybe I'll post a screen shot later. I am still not very good with AVISynth but the more I use it the more I like it. I want to try some of it's noise filters in AVISynth, any suggestions?

[poisondeathray]

You need to be more specific or post a video sample if you want suggestions

For example, if you wanted chroma noise reduction, you could use FFT3DFilter on the chroma plane (plane=3)

Vdub filters don't really work on CbCr (it has to be converted to RGB first in vdub filters, so they aren't really working on Cb or Cr directly)

[budwzr]

Post a noisy clip and I'll use Vegas ONLY, and let somebody else use whatever.

[poisondeathray]

You have to define what you mean by "noise". There are so many different kinds and specific filters for situations

For example, magnetic drop outs can be considered a type of "noise", but there is nothing vegas can do a thing about them

[budwzr]

You have to define what you mean by "noise". There are so many different kinds and specific filters for situations

For example, magnetic drop outs can be considered a type of "noise", but there is nothing vegas can do a thing about them

If you were restoring a photograph in Photoshop, and there was a hole or corner missing, the area can be rebuilt from a similar section, yes?

[poisondeathray]

You have to define what you mean by "noise". There are so many different kinds and specific filters for situations

For example, magnetic drop outs can be considered a type of "noise", but there is nothing vegas can do a thing about them

If you were restoring a photograph in Photoshop, and there was a hole or corner missing, the area can be rebuilt from a similar section, yes?

yes, you can clone spatially or temporally (if you have video, with AE , nuke or similar tools)

are you referring to manual edits? because that's the only way you'd be able to do that in vegas

in avisynth, there are special filters that do this automatically

(but i think we're getting off topic here - if you want to discuss this, it should probably be split off into another thread)

[budwzr]

Automatic filters need parameters. If you understand the parameters the Vegas filters are automatic too.

What you said earlier, that we must "define" the noise first, is the key to setting the filter parameters. Defining the noise to me means understanding the nature of it in terms of a counter-tool to minimize or eliminate it.

I usually try to convert it to something else that is easier to deal with.

[poisondeathray]

Yes, you must enter parameters. But by "automatic" - I mean in the sense you don't have to frame by frame edit or rotoscope . I mean it might take 1000's of times longer trying to use vegas for something it wasn't meant for. You don't use a screwdriver to hammer a nail (at least I don't , they might over there on the Galapagos )

For the chroma noise example, you can treat it with chroma blur in vegas - there are workarounds that maybe ok in vegas, but some things it's just not ideal for (deinterlacing, denoising) . It's not good at 3d animation either, but it's designed for that. It's an editor and a great one at that.

[budwzr]

Frame by frame? Heck no.

[poisondeathray]

Frame by frame? Heck no.

So you have some other magic way of restoring drop outs in vegas other than masking/rotoscoping/cloning ?

[budwzr]

.... magnetic drop outs can be considered a type of "noise", but there is nothing vegas can do a thing about them

If you were restoring a photograph in Photoshop, and there was a hole or corner missing, the area can be rebuilt from a similar section, yes?

So you have some other magic way of restoring drop outs in vegas other than masking/rotoscoping/cloning ?

I already commented that restoring missing sections can be done by using similar areas of the existing media.

[budwzr]

I don't think "dropouts" are noise. Noise is a naturally occurring phenomenon, the other is mechanical.

The distinction in regards to repair is that noise will occur in conjunction, and on a curve with, something that can be measured and therefore predicted.

So the first question I ask is can I get a selection on it, and what can I sacrifice in exchange for the noise.

EXCHANGE/SACRIFICE/SELECTION

Those three words are the "magic".

[DarrellS]

Here is a screenshot from the Virtualdub forums where a guy used different filters to make a low resolution video look a lot better.

He states in the thread to remove excessive noise, add multiple smoother 40 to increase detail, increasing warp sharp could add denoising,
could also add msu cartoon restore.

http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=19620&

[budwzr]

Lowlight noise removed with gamma shift.

Note that the subject gets enhanced, while the non-interesting background is shnizzled.


[Attachment 5934 - Click to enlarge]

[poisondeathray]

I don't think "dropouts" are noise. Noise is a naturally occurring phenomenon, the other is mechanical.

The distinction in regards to repair is that noise will occur in conjunction, and on a curve with, something that can be measured and therefore predicted.

So the first question I ask is can I get a selection on it, and what can I sacrifice in exchange for the noise.

EXCHANGE/SACRIFICE/SELECTION

Those three words are the "magic".

Now you're going to have to define "noise"

In video & audio, noise is simply unwanted signal. It doesn't have to be "naturally occuring"

For example , you can have digital quantization noise that is not naturally occurring

It doesn't have to be quantifiable or measurable. Sure , there are objective measures of signal and noise (e.g. Peak Signal to Noise Ratio or PSNR) , but they don't necessarily apply to subjective measures like "quality", in fact they can deviate quite a bit from human perception of "quality"

The key here is the human perception of unwanted signal , and this is subjective.

For example, you might want to add grain and to dither gradients - this may actually improve quality along gradients and banding for 8-bit video. Although you're adding grain and some might call it "noise" - it's wanted signal , so it's not really "noise" by definition

Some might label a metallica concert: "noise" , but to metallica fans, they might like the signal, to them it's not noise

Sacrifice ; yes - there is always some sort of tradeoff for any processing. For example it can be time spent processing, deterioration of "quality" , or any parameter you want.

[magillagorilla]

poisondeathray you are right. That's why I used the weeds example. A flower in a flower garden is OK but a flower in the middle of the lawn is a weed. So I think noise is whatever I don't want in my picture. I tried to keep the conversation subjective but it really can't be. Here is an example of removing chroma snow without loosing too much detail. I personally like grain over blur because I like to see sharpness, this is my preference. However, there is garbage in some signals which should not be there, like chroma snow and drop outs. Blocky images due to too much data reduction, in my mind, is not "noise" but simply image distortion caused intentionally. The blockiness did not happen out of some organic nature of the medium like VHS chroma noise, but rather it was caused by someone running the video through a desturctive transecode.

[Attachment 5936 - Click to enlarge]

[magillagorilla]

On my example notice the horrible chroma snow on the right side and its removal on the left with minimal bluring. There are still some hard (purple) dropouts on the left of the image. I just don't know how Vegas can do this type os noise removal. I'm not talking about making the picture blury, I'm talking about removing unwanted elements while leaving the rest of the image alone.

[poisondeathray]

[Attachment 5936 - Click to enlarge]

no signal = no noise

[Bonie81]

@magillagorilla

here the top-10 reviews
http://video-editing-software-review.toptenreviews.com/

[pepegot1]

Corel VideoStudio Pro X4 is a very powerful and easy to use program. All the working parts of the video production are clearly visible. There is an excellent forum for their product. It is especially good for beginners. at: http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewforum.php?f=1
One I would avoid in Pinnacle Studio.

[jagabo]

I wouldn't believe anything I read at toptenreviews.com.