For the PROS: Combining CDDA on a VCD??? PLEASE HELP...

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

For the last YEAR, I've been tying to build a VideoCD that also containse Audio tracks for a CD Player. SO I could play the Videos in a VCD/CD-I/DVD player and the Audio in a standart CD Player.

I've tryed many different things, but nothing ever reached perfection. The closest I got was:

Easy cd creator: First I burn a regular Audio CD, and than I burn a VCD in another session. The problem:
1. I want to control these audio tracks from the VCD menu.
2. I CAN'T BURN ON A 90/99 MINUTE CDS, CAUSE IT'S NOT A DISK-AT-ONCE METHODE.

WinOnCD: That was almost it. The Idea is there. I can build it all (CD-TEXT, 90/99 minutes cds, controling the Audio from the VCD menu), BUT, When I actualy burn it, nothing works!!! No CD-TEXT, and the VCD can't find the Audio tracks.

So please, I turn to the best of the best among you, If anyone knows a solution, than please tell me. I'll appriciate it Alot.

Thank you

[timmy_boi]

Hey this post is to you and the Administrator

i think this topic is verry cool and verry needed ive seen lots of ppl stuck at this too

if anybody finds a way i think the Tutorial should be made and put on this site that would be a SWEEEEEEET addition to this site

[kitty]

I have not tried it but have you looked at VCDimager? Check out http://vcdimager.hvrlab.org/pub/vcdimager/manuals/0.7/vcdimager.html#SEC18
It appears you can add CDDA after the ISO image on VCDs (not SVCDs).

hvr would be the person to ask.

Da Kitty

[Beavis]

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On 2001-07-24 15:55:47, Alex_VCD_Builder wrote:
For the last YEAR, I've been tying to build a VideoCD that also containse Audio tracks for a CD Player. SO I could play the Videos in a VCD/CD-I/DVD player and the Audio in a standard CD Player.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

This cannot be done as you describe.

[tacosalad]

Which version/edition of WinOnCD are you using?

A simple hybrid disc should be fairly easy, so long as you don't mind the trade-offs. With WinOnCD 3.6, it was as simple as dropping the audio and video files into the track list and creating nodes with the extended editor. (I'll go into more detail if you want. I just haven't done it recently.) I have no experience with the CD-TEXT part, though.

The tradeoffs I observed: 1) an audio CD player starts with about 17 seconds of silence because the first track can't contain data. 2) The disc cannot be multisession, as most players reject the second session.

Neither of these limitations should be particularly crippling. In the past I've conjectured that #1 might be solvable by squeezing the required data into the pre-gap so that an audio player skips directly to track 2, but I haven't actually tried it.

It sounds like you want a fairly ambitious project, especially with CD-TEXT and 90-minute media. Start simple! Get a few simple test discs (ie: "junk&quot successfully recorded before trying too much.

Oh, but it also sounds like fun! I'll go mess with it while waiting for more comments on this thread...

-tacosalad

[disturbed1]

Maybe add the wav files seperately with VCD Imager, it allows full customization of the file system. Contact HVR, or Vitiluas through these forums (do a search)

But with CD audio, and VCD A/V you'd only get 30 minutes each. Kind of short play time.

With the Philips VCD 2.0 toolkit, you can combine wav audio(.cda) with full motion video. That would net you about 40 minutes. But the .cda is the audio track for the movie. Pretty cool if you only wanted 5 or 6 music videos.

That might play the music videos in a VCD capable player, and the audio to the music videos in a regular CD player

[disturbed1]

damn double posts

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: disturbed1 on 2001-07-24 18:59:29 ]</font>

[RFontenot]

You can do most of what you want with the Philips Video CD 2.0 Toolkit. Here's a guide on creating VCD's with audio tracks using VCD2TK:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=50500&forum=1

I used VCD2TK to create a VCD with multilevel menus, one menu branch dedicated to video clips, the other to music ripped from a CD. I used PowerPoint to create a unique background for each song which included the title, album, and artist. Each song displays it's unique background as it plays. You have control over what happens when the song ends. You can choose to go back to a selection menu, or you can choose play each song in sequence.

I don't know if VCD2TK will support CD-TEXT, though. I've never had a need for it.

RF

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-24 18:16:55, Beavis wrote:
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On 2001-07-24 15:55:47, Alex_VCD_Builder wrote:
For the last YEAR, I've been tying to build a VideoCD that also containse Audio tracks for a CD Player. SO I could play the Videos in a VCD/CD-I/DVD player and the Audio in a standard CD Player.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

This cannot be done as you describe.


</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>


Why not?

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-24 18:49:49, tacosalad wrote:
Which version/edition of WinOnCD are you using?

It sounds like you want a fairly ambitious project, especially with CD-TEXT and 90-minute media. Start simple! Get a few simple test discs (ie: "junk" successfully recorded before trying too much.

Oh, but it also sounds like fun! I'll go mess with it while waiting for more comments on this thread...

-tacosalad
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, I've tryed alot, for about a year of testing... I'm using WinOnCd 3.8 PE. Ther'es a slight problem with what you're saying. VCD project is not 1 track. It's multi-data tracks. And the best I got was, that a standalone CD player silently "plays" the data tracks until it reaches the Audio...

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-24 20:07:26, RFontenot wrote:
You can do most of what you want with the Philips Video CD 2.0 Toolkit. Here's a guide on creating VCD's with audio tracks using VCD2TK:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=50500&forum=1


RF


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WOW, thats something I haven't seen before, I'll try it out, thanx

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-24 17:47:41, kitty wrote:
I have not tried it but have you looked at VCDimager? Check out http://vcdimager.hvrlab.org/pub/vcdimager/manuals/0.7/vcdimager.html#SEC18
It appears you can add CDDA after the ISO image on VCDs (not SVCDs).

hvr would be the person to ask.

Da Kitty
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I think it doesn't support Menus...

[kitty]

Alex - VCDimager definitely supports menus and complex ones also. You have to master its XML syntax for which there are only 2 simple GUIs for, not one for complex menus (yet - hint we need one).

If anyone uses Philips to do this let us know if the audio CD player plays the disks normally.

Da Kitty

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-25 03:34:33, kitty wrote:
Alex - VCDimager definitely supports menus and complex ones also. You have to master its XML syntax for which there are only 2 simple GUIs for, not one for complex menus (yet - hint we need one).

If anyone uses Philips to do this let us know if the audio CD player plays the disks normally.

Da Kitty
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Oh, Thanx. I'll check it out

[tacosalad]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>Oh, I've tryed alot, for about a year of testing... I'm using WinOnCd 3.8 PE. Ther'es a slight problem with what you're saying. VCD project is not 1 track. It's multi-data tracks. And the best I got was, that a standalone CD player silently "plays" the data tracks until it reaches the Audio...</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't know how far you'd really gotten.

But you might have been closer than you'd realized. It sounds like you just got the video tracks before the audio tracks. Track 1 (the is the only immovable data track on a VCD, but it's generally only a few seconds long. If you move the audio tracks before the video tracks, you'll still have a few seconds of silence when you put the disc in an audio player, but you won't have to wait through ALL those video tracks!

This principle will apply to discs created by the Philips toolkit, too. Put the audio in the lowest possible tracks.

[RFontenot]

Actually, I don't think VCD2TK will let you put audio tracks before any MPEG tracks. The instructions are quite specific that audio tracks must follow video tracks. I believe it's a White Book spec thing.

RF

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-25 13:49:31, RFontenot wrote:
Actually, I don't think VCD2TK will let you put audio tracks before any MPEG tracks. The instructions are quite specific that audio tracks must follow video tracks. I believe it's a White Book spec thing.

RF
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I read all of your posts concerning VCD2TK. VERY impressive. I'll start working on it tommorow. I wanna learn using this soft. Than, I'de like to try VCDimager out. It's suppose to be very good...

But still, The way I want it, It must be a simple multi-session disk. First session - Audio (cd-text), and second session the VCD project. And it's possible. I did it using EZCD 4. But than I'll have to give up 90 min media. Cause it's no longer Disk-at-once (no overburning possible). Though I have some more Ideas... There's a nice soft cold "DVDMotion pro". It has it all... (besides the CDA support).

... My hopes are relaying on "Roxio VideoPack 5.0"...

[AntnyMD]

If you somehow managed to get a multisession disk burned, with the first session being CDDA (audio CD), and the second session being CDDV (video CD data), how would a standalone DVD player thats VCD and audio CD capable understand what to do with the sessions?

In theory, it should read the last session first and play the VCD ... but from within the VCD, it wouldn't be able to see the audio CD session. An audio-only CD player would see the first track as normal and play. Heaven forbid you put that thing in a DVD-ROM drive with autoplay enabled. It's bound to launch every piece of software you have on your computer.

[Beavis]

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On 2001-07-25 15:49:55, AntnyMD wrote:
If you somehow managed to get a multisession disk burned, with the first session being CDDA (audio CD), and the second session being CDDV (video CD data), how would a standalone DVD player thats VCD and audio CD capable understand what to do with the sessions?
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It wouldn't, and that's the key.

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-25 15:49:55, AntnyMD wrote:
... Heaven forbid you put that thing in a DVD-ROM drive with autoplay enabled. It's bound to launch every piece of software you have on your computer.
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lol... Thats funny man. No, beavis is right, it wouldn't. I'll explain: When you put a game cd in to the drive, the autorun.inf starts to install the game. Many games include Audio tracks as part of the game (like Tomb raider, Mortal kombat...) Have you ever seen that in adition to the installation, the cd player started too? More over, with such a CD (Called Enhanced CD), you won't be able to hear the Audio tracks using Winamp... or any other software that trys to play the tracks digitaly. You can ONLY use windows cd player , Windows media player 7.+ (in Audio cd mode)

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Oh, and I forgot to mantion that, its the same with standalone DVD players. They see only the last session. (and in case the last (and only) session are the Audio tracks, than it'll play them. The player will see the CD EXACTLY as you see it from windows explorer window

[tacosalad]

Well, you've convinced me that you're trying to do something other than what I'd been imagining.

So is it acceptable if VCD/DVD player doesn't play the same physical CDDA tracks as the audio player? That certainly changes the playing field.

But then, perhaps I was biased--I had created a hybrid disc as a demo for a Dejay colleague, so the audio tracks were the critical part. All he wanted the VCD player to do was put pretty stills on the screen while playing the same audio tracks as a regular CD player. (The stills simply changed between audio tracks.) That way, the disc played over 70 minutes of audio in either and audio or DVD player, but in a DVD player it had the bonus of pretty pictures, like happy faces, while the same audio played.

Any chance you could describe what application you've got in mind, if any? It sounds like more than just a technical foray.

[vitualis]

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On 2001-07-25 15:49:55, AntnyMD wrote:
If you somehow managed to get a multisession disk burned, with the first session being CDDA (audio CD), and the second session being CDDV (video CD data), how would a standalone DVD player thats VCD and audio CD capable understand what to do with the sessions?</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

This wouldn't work. A hardware player doesn't look at the ISO9660 filesystem at all. It looks at the data in the physical sectors. Have a brief look at the VCDImager manual... For example, for the entrypoints data, it doesn't look in the entrypoints file. Rather, that data is standardised in white book to be at a particular sector on a VCD and the hardware player just reads that. Consequently, if you do anything trickly like multisessions, it simply won't work.

To others:

VCDImager does not support the addition of CD-DA tracks yet so you are out of luck.

The VCD Toolkit is probably the only program that does it in accordance to White Book (a good thing).

I don't know enough this to know if you could reference the CD-DA tracks directly through the PBC. This is simply because I don't use VCD Toolkit.

And as someone has said, the CD-DA tracks MUST be after all the video tracks. This is in White Book.

Regards.

[tacosalad]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>And as someone has said, the CD-DA tracks MUST be after all the video tracks. This is in White Book.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

That confusion was my goof. I thought I'd put the video tracks after the audio, but I found that disc last night, and its video items are recorded as segment items, not sequences. That means they were recorded in the data area, not as tracks.

It's been a couple of years since I built that disc, so it's not fresh in my memory. Sorry about that, chief!

To Alex_VCD_Builder:

Do you have a specific project in mind? I still think it can be done the way you want it (not the way I did it), but I'd love to know if you've got something cool on the drawing board.

[timmy_boi]

well i have a commerical VCD disk and it has music and video files

i browsed through it and found that the music files were put in a "cdda" folder i dono thats the difference i saw maybe there is more coding to it too

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-25 17:54:27, tacosalad wrote:
Well, you've convinced me that you're trying to do something other than what I'd been imagining.

So is it acceptable if VCD/DVD player doesn't play the same physical CDDA tracks as the audio player? That certainly changes the playing field.

But then, perhaps I was biased--I had created a hybrid disc as a demo for a Dejay colleague, so the audio tracks were the critical part. All he wanted the VCD player to do was put pretty stills on the screen while playing the same audio tracks as a regular CD player. (The stills simply changed between audio tracks.) That way, the disc played over 70 minutes of audio in either and audio or DVD player, but in a DVD player it had the bonus of pretty pictures, like happy faces, while the same audio played.

Any chance you could describe what application you've got in mind, if any? It sounds like more than just a technical foray.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea sure. You can use Roxio WinOnCD to do that (I did it my self).

Or you can use Philips VideoCD 2.0 ToolKit (you can find instructions here: http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=50500&forum=1&0 )

GoodLuck

[gsashok]

Alex_VCD_Builder

Do you got any solution for your question?

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-26 12:25:34, timmy_boi wrote:
well i have a commerical VCD disk and it has music and video files

i browsed through it and found that the music files were put in a "cdda" folder i dono thats the difference i saw maybe there is more coding to it too


</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

This is great. The key is to check if the Audio tracks are located after the video tracks or before them. You can do it using Roxio WinOnCD. If you check it, let me know.
Thanx

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-26 12:21:49, tacosalad wrote:
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>And as someone has said, the CD-DA tracks MUST be after all the video tracks. This is in White Book.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

That confusion was my goof. I thought I'd put the video tracks after the audio, but I found that disc last night, and its video items are recorded as segment items, not sequences. That means they were recorded in the data area, not as tracks.

Do you have a specific project in mind? I still think it can be done the way you want it (not the way I did it), but I'd love to know if you've got something cool on the drawing board.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

What you did is a simple multi-session project. The only disadvantage is that your cd is not playable in a CD-I player.

Yea, I have a spesific project in mind. As I said in the begining I'm trying to build this disk for almost a years. Well, last years I liked Britney Spears (her music!), lame, I know. Anyways, I wanted to build a CD, that will contain her Album and her Music videos. Now, I do it out of principle, fun...

[timmy_boi]

Britny speers???
geez if you said porn i would of forgave you but but

BRittny speers??