For the PROS: Combining CDDA on a VCD??? PLEASE HELP...

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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On 2001-07-26 13:16:00, timmy_boi wrote:
Britny speers???
geez if you said porn i would of forgave you but but

BRittny speers??

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lol... "Used to..." I hate myself for that too...

Why did you think I need the Audio tracks for??? (for hearing the moanning?! )

[tacosalad]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>What you did is a simple multi-session project. The only disadvantage is that your cd is not playable in a CD-I player.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

It was a single-session disc. Maybe we're using the term "session" differently? Does Roxio now have something called a "multi-session proejct"? (I used the old WinOnCD 3.6.)

Regardless, I had never paid much attention to CD-I compatibility, so that one caught me by surprise. Can't CD-I handle VCD 2.0 discs? Or was that based on the assumption that my CD really was a multisession disc? I swear it wasn't--WinOnCD 3.6 doesn't even have such an option!

I have some ideas I want to try tonight. I think it's possible to create a VCD 2.0 that plays just audio tracks in an audio CD player, but live video and all the audio tracks in a DVD or VCD player. I just remembered a technique called "CD-Ready" or something like that, which was used prior to the advent of multisession. It might not be applicable here, but it's worth a shot.

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

[/quote]
I have some ideas I want to try tonight. I think it's possible to create a VCD 2.0 that plays just audio tracks in an audio CD player, but live video and all the audio tracks in a DVD or VCD player. I just remembered a technique called "CD-Ready" or something like that, which was used prior to the advent of multisession. It might not be applicable here, but it's worth a shot.
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I ment that you had only one data track. CD-I reads only the Video TRACKS (each one must be track and no t sengment)...


Thats great. If you manage to do it, let me know. ok...

GoodLuck

[tacosalad]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>I ment that you had only one data track. CD-I reads only the Video TRACKS (each one must be track and no t sengment)... </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Ah, interesting.

But reading the help files with the Philips VCD Toolkit, it implies CD-i works with their segment items since that's what they say hotspots on the menus are for. And the "Making CD-i compatible VCD discs" section doesn't mention any limitations. In fact, it says "...actions can be defined as any of the selection branches in the Toolkit menus."

I wonder if the limitation you mentioned is just a flaw in the CD-i application included with other programs (like WinOnCD). It wouldn't be surprising if Philips put a better CD-i application in their Tool Kit that the generic one that WinOnCD uses.

I've gotten a sample image built with the Philips Toolkit, but I won't get to record a sample disc until the weekend. It looks promising. My goal: when played in a DVD player (I can't test CD-i) it should play as a full-featured VCD with access to motion video and CDDA tracks. When played in an audio player, the CDDA tracks should play either immediately or after a pause of no more than 5 seconds (my arbitrary limit).

PS: Do you actually own a CD-i player?

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

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My goal: when played in a DVD player (I can't test CD-i) it should play as a full-featured VCD with access to motion video and CDDA tracks. When played in an audio player, the CDDA tracks should play either immediately or after a pause of no more than 5 seconds (my arbitrary limit).
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Can you please Email me your project file?

[Branroyal]

Well, i hate to tell you this, but what you are looking to do i have already patent pending. please keep a look out for the CS2 compact disc. heres something interesting for anyone here to do, when you find a way to bridge CDDA to MPEG, try rewinding back from the CDDA track into the mpeg track before it. that harsh digital noise you will hear is why youve never seen a big consumer market for the CDDA option of VCD (E32 type uncorrectable error at replication glass mastering). for what you need to get done, winoncd 3.8 has a problem with (the cracked verion of course) where it will burn but create a coaster. hint find winoncd 3.7.. you will have no problem getting basic results of what your looking to do, but the disc authored CAN not be replicated due to errors in the white book with CDDA tracks of that digital noise mentioned beforehand, and a "fake" lead out point at the end of the CD. you will hear a nasty digital pop at the end of the cd which will error your cd player and prevent any auto replay or CD carusel functions. WINONCD 3.7 and youll be fine

[tacosalad]

Alex_vcd_builder,

I'm getting close, but I'm having trouble recording images from the Philips Toolkit. If you've tried the Philips VCD 2.0 Toolkit probably know what I'm talking about--it's very cumbersome! But the critical step of hiding the data from an audio player turned out to be fairly easy, at least for a sample disc I built with WinOnCD 3.6. But that test disc doesn't have "live" video--just stills--so it's not quite what you're after.

Branroyal,

No need to "hate to tell you this" about your patent--it's always good practice to mention a patent. However, my methods follow established practice of the art--there's nothing new--so there's little probability that my method will resemble that in your disclosure. The challenge is to accomplish it using the tools available.

My first step is to prepare a perfectly orthodox VCD 2.0 disc, storing the video assets as segments not tracks. That's established practice--in fact there's a checkbox that does it automatically. The second step is to adjust the pre-gap of the data track so that the data area is concealed from an audio player (except by rewinding). This is also established practice, before everyone adopted Blue Book, and went under various names you've probably seen, CD-i Ready, Hidden Track, Track Zero, i-Trax, Audio-Vision, CD-ROM Ready, etc. It obviously has all the established disadvantages to which the pregap technique is prone, but Blue Book just isn't applicable to VCD players.

[nidoran]

just for the record; it IS possible to have a audio CD combined with a VCD (wich can be played with a CDI) without a still track 1. I used to have a legal cd which worked like that. unfortunally, i gave it away together with my CDI player

I think you gotta make it like first the CDDA, and then the VCD part. i dont know very much about it, i step up to SVCD a long time ago, and SVCD cannot be combined with CDDA as far as i know

[tacosalad]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>just for the record; it IS possible to have a audio CD combined with a VCD (wich can be played with a CDI) without a still track 1. I used to have a legal cd which worked like that. unfortunally, i gave it away together with my CDI player</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, that could be a "CD-i Ready" disc. There's plenty of evidence that such discs were more common around 1995, but have gradually become extinct. The challenge here is to create one with the tools we've got available, which aren't really oriented toward that use.