Professional Looking Menus for Non-Pros?

[Jeff_NJ]

Currently, I use Sony Vegas and DVD Architect. I am by no means a professional, though I do manage to land a few small paying video once in awhile. I am happy with the quality of my video, however, I have to admit that my menus lack any professionalism. Are there any authoring applications out there that make it fairly easy to get pro looking results through the use of incorporated templates and buttons etc? I just cant seem to be able to do this in Architect.

A friend with about the the same skills as me, uses Final Cut Pro and Apple DVD Studio and gets really good results, so that had me wondering. Though, at this point, I dont want to leave Vegas. Thanks.

Jeff

[thecoalman]

Good looking menus are created not templated, it has more to do with creativity than skill or the application you are using. Providing the application isn't hobbling you by it's limitations.

Having said that DVD workshop comes with quite an extensive collection of templates ,buttons etc. You could of course create and import your own collections which is more important.

[lordsmurf]

Ulead DVD Workshop 2

[Bjs]

You might be tempted to checkout wax2 , Ive been able to pull off plenty of tricks using a mix of plugin presets and transition presets ... getting things to appear smooth in moving is the real trick .

[Jeff_NJ]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll look into the suggestions!

Jeff

[racer-x]

Creativity and skill are way more important than Programs. I made a video tutorial awhile back that involves making an advanced motion menu in Vegas using track masks and a 3D image sequence made with OpenFX. You could also make the same motion menu in Premiere or even Wax2.

Here is the tutorial: http://www.fortvir.net/gallery/d/2173-1/trackmasks_tut.mov

Here's a motion menu example done with OpenFX and Premiere, but you could also use Vegas or Wax2:
http://www.fortvir.net/gallery/d/1535-1/record.avi

[Jeff_NJ]

Hey, great tutorial. I had never tried making menus in Vegas. I will give that a shot for sure. Thanks.

Jeff

[lordsmurf]

I use Adobe Premiere and Adobe Photoshop to create menu elements, but you still require a good authoring software to implement and use them as desired.

[GeorgeW]

Agreed with the folks who stress the importance of creativity -- basically, you create your menu assets, and use your DVD Authoring program to put it all together.

The future of DVD Workshop is uncertain at the moment, and it has menu limitations in its current form (no 16:9 menus, cannot fully control button states, cannot control button navigation, etc...). At a minimum, I would recommend waiting for clarification from Corel/Ulead regarding their plans for the future of DVD WS...

If you plan to create your menu assets externally, then DVDA4 is great at allowing you to put the pieces together when constructing your menus.

If you are looking for wizard/template driven software, Ulead's DVD MovieFactory 6 Plus does a pretty good job at creating "Motion Menus" that can automatically generate menu fades and fly-in buttons. It also does a form of "Switched Menus" automatically for you. But you have less control over menu navigation setup, and sometimes too much motion (that forces the viewer to wait for the buttons to become active) can be annoying to viewers -- depends on your audience. And of course, MF6+ is missing several SD DVD "Advanced" features as found in DVDA4 (but it does offer some HD DVD Authoring functionality).

Regards,
George

[Jeff_NJ]

Thanks for the advice. I will take all of this into consideration. Nothing good comes without the effort, so I will have to put more time into my menus

Jeff

[lordsmurf]

The future of DVD Workshop is uncertain at the moment, and it has menu limitations in its current form (no 16:9 menus, cannot fully control button states, cannot control button navigation, etc...). At a minimum, I would recommend waiting for clarification from Corel/Ulead regarding their plans for the future of DVD WS...

Who cares about the future? The current product works great as is. You expect authoring software to do more than is commonly needed. That is your problem, not an issue of the software. You'll have to spend more money and more time with something more attuned to your unusual need. Things like 16:9 menus are not commonly needed, most will never need them. I have no idea what you refer to about button states and navigation. What are you wanting it to do, exactly? It's a button. Let's not get lost here, DVD menus are for functionality, though they do require some degree of quality design and organization. All the super-fancy crap is secondary, and most people realize it.

[SCDVD]

Often times understated elegance is better than a menu with a lot of slick glop in it. If you get too carried away, you run the risk of players being too slow in handling the menu functionality or worse, not even working right. Granted, everyone has their own idea of how much time and effort they want to put into menu creation but you're usually not wrong to keep it clean and simple.

[Jeff_NJ]

I agree. Nothing worse than those dvds you watch, where it takes you a minute to figure out where the play button is. Simple is usually better for sure. As others said, still has to look professional, but functionality is the key thing.

Jeff

[GeorgeW]

The future of DVD Workshop is uncertain at the moment, and it has menu limitations in its current form (no 16:9 menus, cannot fully control button states, cannot control button navigation, etc...). At a minimum, I would recommend waiting for clarification from Corel/Ulead regarding their plans for the future of DVD WS...

Who cares about the future? The current product works great as is. You expect authoring software to do more than is commonly needed. That is your problem, not an issue of the software. You'll have to spend more money and more time with something more attuned to your unusual need. Things like 16:9 menus are not commonly needed, most will never need them. I have no idea what you refer to about button states and navigation. What are you wanting it to do, exactly? It's a button. Let's not get lost here, DVD menus are for functionality, though they do require some degree of quality design and organization. All the super-fancy crap is secondary, and most people realize it.

Who cares about the future Well, I would if I were recommending someone put down an investment on outdated software. You really have no clue as to how many features are truly missing from the current version. And I guess you see no value in future support from the underlying company -- perhaps a patch here or there, or even ability to run on Vista (yea, I'm not changing OS at the moment, but some folks will be buying new machines with Vista already pre-loaded).

The OP wanted to know how to make "professional looking" menus. Well, to start with, you need a tool that will give you the most features/options, and not limit you to 4:3 menus (btw, in the Ulead Forums 16:9 menus is one of the most requested items on the DVDWS3 Wishlist -- although I don't know if there will ever be a DVDWS3). You get a prospective client, the client only has HD TV's or widescreen TV's. They ask you what type of menus you offer -- and all you can offer is 4:3 menus. Some clients WILL look elsewhere...

Button States as in Normal/Selected/Active -- you CANNOT fully control the NORMAL state of a button.

Button Navigation as in if I use my navigation arrows (up/down/left/right), which button will be highlighted next. Yea, you can do that with the help of external tools, but why not directly in the software itself

And I haven't even mentioned the lack of Menu-Cell Setup/Control -- nevermind, you probably have no idea what that means either...

btw, what happened to your "sources" from September 2006 when you were telling us about how DVDWS3 was in the works

Here's a simple menu example that uses the Inverse Selection trick -- can this be done in DVDWS (NOTE: buttons are Full-Motion and can be Full-Color, and there is no delay while changing buttons -- the type of delay you get with "Switched Menus")

Link to technique
Link to Example -- about 10mb, active for a couple of days

Regards,
George

[fredfillis]

Here is the tutorial: http://www.fortvir.net/gallery/d/2173-1/trackmasks_tut.mov

Here's a motion menu example done with OpenFX and Premiere, but you could also use Vegas or Wax2:
http://www.fortvir.net/gallery/d/1535-1/record.avi

Nice, racer! I went ahead and downloaded openFX and have had a bit of a play. Are you aware of any tutorials for openfx? I've not found anything particularly helpful.

[lordsmurf]

George, if I wanted advanced functionality, I'd use DVD Studio Pro.

Something like DVD-Lab, DVD Architect or Ulead MF6 is a total piece of crap compared to DVDSP. The original poster might consider borrowing some time on his friend's computer. That's what I do, when needed, which is a few times per year. Most everything else can be done in DVDWS2 in Windows.

The original poster wants non-pro difficulty with sleek menus. That points directly to DVD Workshop, which has a non-pro interface, but comes with many pro quality attributes.

The other aspect is menu assets. If your menu images/videos/buttons look like crap, no authoring package will change that. You need to have good Photoshop and video work in advance. That's usually where the "professional" aspect comes from anyway, not the authoring software.

The authoring software simply gives options on how to use the menu, layout the assets and navigate the content.

[SCDVD]

The ability to be artfully creative as well as the willingness to truly learn how to use a powerful tool like Photoshop play a major role in tasteful and professional looking menus. Photoshop is a great tool but it also has a significant learning curve. A person has to want to learn it and have enough perseverance to stick with it. I'm convinced there are more copies of Photoshop sitting unused on bookshelves than there are copies in active use. It is NOT for the user who wants instant gratification - just load it and it does beautiful graphics all by itself just like the ones on the box. The other aspect of using Photoshop is artful creative ability. Some people have it and some don't. It is an individual decision about the amount of time someones is willing to spend to learn and use a tool like Photoshop. It isn't an issue of right and wrong. It really boils down to what do you want to do. If one isn't willing to spend the time to learn and use a good graphics design program. they may be better off using the canned menu templates that are in a number of video suite software products.

[spanky123]

I use Adobe Premiere and Adobe Photoshop to create menu elements, but you still require a good authoring software to implement and use them as desired.

I haven't tried them yet but the Adobe CS3 package looks good
With Photoshop and AfterEffects integration in Encore, I'd imagine you could do some pretty good stuff.

Has anyone tried these?

I too think it's more too do with the users ability and creativity but without the right tools it might be a lot harder.

[GeorgeW]

George, if I wanted advanced functionality, I'd use DVD Studio Pro.

Something like DVD-Lab, DVD Architect or Ulead MF6 is a total piece of crap compared to DVDSP. The original poster might consider borrowing some time on his friend's computer. That's what I do, when needed, which is a few times per year. Most everything else can be done in DVDWS2 in Windows.

lordsmurf, what version of DVDSP are you actually running You throw around words like "crap" without ever backing them up (which is pretty weak in my book). I don't post generalizations -- I give examples. You never give examples, you just throw out your useless opinion using an occasional harsh word without anything to back up your point...

I don't know where DVDSP entered this picture, but since you now feel the need to bring in something more powerful than DVDWS, please tell me -- why are DVDA4 and DLP2.x "crap" next to DVDSP (I am just wondering what DVDSP can do that cannot be done in either DVDA4 or DLP2.x -- because I'm willing to learn, but it feels like you are never willing to learn anything...).

I mean, if DVDA4 and DLP2.x are "crap" compared to DVDSP, then what do you consider DVDWS next to DVDSP

I never put DVD MovieFactory 6 in the same league as DVDA4 or DLP for SD DVD Authoring -- I just said if the OP was looking for an "automated" wizard/template based authoring program, then it might be a consideration. And it has the added bonus of authoring "basic" HD-DVD's

btw, have you figured out how to do an Inverse Selection in DVDWS (controlling the "Normal" button state) And no response to the lack of 16:9 menus either and no reply to the button navigation either That's not even mentioning missing SD DVD features such as:
-chapter playlists
-multiple menu cells
-buttons over video
-multiple angles
-mixed angles
-scripting
-UOPS Settings
-chapter VM Commands
-pausing on chapter marks
-controlling the placement of assets on the disc
-compiling WITHOUT an abstraction layer
-and the list goes on...

I'm waiting for your list of what DVDWS does that these others do not. Please enlighten us with some FACTS -- not just some bullying commentary on software that you really have no clue about...

As for DVDSP -- I have no doubt it offers advanced SD DVD Authoring features -- I'm curious what "advanced" features you actually used it for -- because that should start to give you a clue as to what features are missing DVDWS...

On a final note -- I am not a rookie when it comes to DVDWS2.x -- I probably know alot more about DVDWS2 than you think (its strengths and its weaknesses...)

Regards,
George

[racer-x]

fredfillis wrote:

went ahead and downloaded openFX and have had a bit of a play. Are you aware of any tutorials for openfx? I've not found anything particularly helpful.

Sorry, I don't know of any tutorials. I just did a crash course of trial and error to learn it. I'm definitely no expert on OpenFX. In fact I usually use the existing model animations and edit them the way I want. Most 3D applications are very difficult to learn, except maybe Ulead Cool 3D. I suppose I could make a tutorial myself, but I don't have much free time.

GeorgeW,

I too am an avid user of DVD-Lab. I recently made an Inverse Selection menu and it came out great. Next time I do a Baseball menu, I'll make it an Inverse Selection menu and use spinning 3D baseballs for button selection. Don't know if it will work on motion menus, I'll have to check it out when I have a chance.

[lordsmurf]

George, you're the one insisting there are more powerful tools than DVDWS2. If you want to play that game, fine, let's go to the top of the list and quit screwing around, that was my point. DVDSP and Scenarist, everything else sucks.

But if you want a little more realism, and actually want to address the original post, DVDWS2 is the perfect answer. This is why I use it, as do so many others. My problem here is you're not addressing the question, you're just giving some anti-DVDWS2 opinions again. His keywords were "easy" and "professional" and "templates". Some of your suggestions fail the easy requirement, and the templates in your suggestions would cause a failure of "professional".

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

[lordsmurf]

I haven't tried them yet but the Adobe CS3 package looks good
With Photoshop and AfterEffects integration in Encore, I'd imagine you could do some pretty good stuff.
Has anyone tried these?
I too think it's more too do with the users ability and creativity but without the right tools it might be a lot harder.

I have Adobe CS3 Master Collection on order. It's not released yet. I've used the beta of Photoshop and Dreamweaver CS3, and they're great. Another week or so, it should be here.

At the moment, I use Photoshop 6 and Photoshop CS2, as well as Adobe Premiere 6.5. The CS3 finally has some upgrades worth getting, and my main interest in Encore is the FlashDVD for web. I have yet to see how well it works on normal DVD authoring, from non-shot sources.

Even then, the software is not the answer. You have to have the source video and images to work with.

There are four main factors at play for professional DVD menus:
1 - Quality asset sources (photos, images, video)
2 - Quality asset-creation software (Photoshop, Vegas or Premiere, 3D rendering)
3 - Creative abilities to edit the assets into a good menu.
4 - Quality asset-assembly software a.k.a. authoring software. Make the menus functional.

In GeorgeW's defense, the software he is mentioning is good stuff. But each has it's own set of limitations, with a few exceptions.
1. DVDSP has few limitations, if any, for example. but it costs money and takes time to learn. I've been using it for 5 years on and off, and still don't grasp every aspect of the program. It comes with a book so thick that my major-metro phone book is dwarfed.
2. DVDWS2 has ease of use, excellent starter templates, and many pro features (but not all pro features). But you'll pay for it, not the cheapest.
3. DVD-Lab has compliance issues, and is not very friendly to work with. I would not suggest this unless money is just a serious problem, and you're willing to learn a lot.
4. Ulead MF6 is more template-driven, but also a more amateur kind of package. This is usually something cheap, free, or available as a low-cost upgrade. I would only suggest it in those situations where money is tight, and you're only making DVDs for yourself (not customers).
5. DVD Architect is also not the easiest to work with, lacks what I would consider pro-quality templates (in the versions I've seen). The only time I would suggest this is when you're using Vegas as your editor and want to take advantage of the integrated workflow. It's also a tad pricey.

If you are willing to learn this stuff, and have money for it, go for it.

I've been using Photoshop for about 13 years now, Premiere for about 7 years now, and authoring DVDs since 2001. My advice to you is to not do important projects first, do them later. I've gone back and re-done some of my early authoring work. Partially due to skill level, partially due to poorer software quality in those early days.

[GeorgeW]

George, you're the one insisting there are more powerful tools than DVDWS2. If you want to play that game, fine, let's go to the top of the list and quit screwing around, that was my point. DVDSP and Scenarist, everything else sucks.

But if you want a little more realism, and actually want to address the original post, DVDWS2 is the perfect answer. This is why I use it, as do so many others. My problem here is you're not addressing the question, you're just giving some anti-DVDWS2 opinions again. His keywords were "easy" and "professional" and "templates". Some of your suggestions fail the easy requirement, and the templates in your suggestions would cause a failure of "professional".

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

lordsmurf, I simply recommended that the OP wait for further clarification from Corel/Ulead on their future plans for DVDWS (support and/or new version). I also stated that it has limitations compared to other programs (I don't count Scenarist because that is in a different league).

1) I asked you what version of DVDSP you are using -- to which you have no reply
2) I ask you what "advanced" features you use in DVDSP, again no reply
3) I ask you what features DVDWS has that DVDA4 and DLP2 do not have -- again no reply
4) I mention if I were making recommendations, I would be interested in the underlying company's future plan for the product -- you have no comment
5) I asked you if DVDA4 and DLP2 are "crap" compared to DVDSP, then what is DVDWS compared to DVDSP -- again no comment
6) I ask you if you can do a simple Inverse Selection in DVDWS -- no answer
7) I ask if you can control button navigation in DVDWS -- no answer
8 - I list a bunch of missing SD DVD Authoring features in DVDWS -- no contradiction from you, but you insist DVDWS is better than DVDA4 and DLP2
9) I tell you that one of the MOST ASKED FOR features on a DVDWS3 Wishlist is 16:9 menus -- and you still insist that 4:3 is all anyone needs/wants (lol)
10) and here you go again -- you say everything else "sucks" compared to Scenarist and DVDSP Well, now we have a stronger word than "crap" -- you have moved on to "sucks" -- Scenarist is a special program, that's probably why it costs thousands of dollars. It is the holy grail for SD DVD Authoring. I can't afford it, but it is there -- do you use it? I said I don't doubt DVDSP has advanced features -- again, I asked you what they were that cannot be done in DVDA4 or DLP (just for my own learning). But once again, you cannot reply because you actually don't know. You're all talk, but have nothing solid to say to backup your comments.

Please provide some actual examples or reasons that make DVDA4 and DLP2 "crap" compared to DVDSP (oh, and you never did say what DVDWS is compared to DVDSP).

I remember last Septemeber, you said this:

Ulead has updated it's other products too in past years. They are very major a competitor to Adobe, in terms of products lines, and they aren't going anywhere. They're actually doing quite well from what I've read, they won't be folding or selling out or merging anytime soon.

The funny thing is you said it AFTER Intervideo bought Ulead, and AFTER Corel announced it was buying Intervideo -- you really know your stuff

Oh yea, in that thread I also listed these features in DLP2.x (over DVDWS) -- but you never really commented on them -- maybe because you don't even know what half of them are...

-sprm checking
-gprm check/modify
-scripting / vm commands (you have the power to control/customize navigation and playback)
-control of button navigation on menus (left/right/up/down arrows)
-multiple angles
-buttons over video
-up to 30 menu cells
-16:9 menus
-manually control VTS assets (you control where your titles should go in your dvd structure)
-chapter playlists (play a chapter and return to the menu, or play several chapters in a different sequence and return to the menu -- all without needing to add additional assets that will eat up your disc space)
-import chapter list text file (timecodes and/or frame numbers)
-smart re-compile
-lean abstraction layer (for freedom to code with up to 10 GPRM's)
-compile without abstraction layer (for total control)
-support for closed caption line-21 for NTSC DVD's (takes Scenarist format)
-generate project reports -- assets, links, etc...
-better control of color states for menu buttons
-attach pre-made external VTS (so you can build your DVD in stages, and Import them into a master project)
-pause on chapter-end for "x" time, or until user presses play
-pause on Title end
-setting of UOPS

Regards,
George

[lordsmurf]

I'm not giving you any answers because I don't have the time to look up and remember all the issues.

For example, I've already forgotten how to use DVD-A, it's been a while since I needed it. I've got it open now and it's just been too long... I'd have to re-learn the software just to tell you want it can't do. If I recall correctly, it could not do multiple VTS.

I've used DVDSP since version 1.1, up to and including the current versions. I actually prefer the older versions.

Ulead didn't fold, it was just taken over in a M&A. You should notice how the brand was retained due to its strong market value. And Ulead products are still a direct competitor with Adobe, although Adobe has the upper hand on most all products.

What I find amusing is the original poster here asked for simple, and each of your posts has successively gotten more techie. Are you here to help, or here to argue?

[GeorgeW]

I'm not giving you any answers because I don't have the time to look up and remember all the issues. I've already forgotten how to use DVD-A, it's been a while since I needed it. I've got it open now and it's just been too long... I'd have to re-learn the software just to tell you want it can't do.

Which version do you have open -- DVD Architect 4.x (Full) You see, you make general statements in an open forum, so you should say what you are basing those statements on (don't you think that's fair to the forum readers) If you have NOT used software (the most recent versions), then how can you possibly make any reliable comments in an open forum

I've used DVDSP since version 1.1, up to and including the current versions. I actually prefer the older versions.

Have you ever inspected the forced Abstraction Layer of DVDSP It has been known to cause slower playback because the jumping around the DVD Player has to do while seeking the next play item.

Ulead didn't fold, it was just taken over in a M&A. You should notice how the brand was retained due to its strong market value. And Ulead products are still a direct competitor with Adobe, although Adobe has the upper hand on most all products.

hmmm, you said "they won't be folding or selling or merging anytime soon" And to think you made that statement AFTER they were bought out by INtervideo, and AFTER Corel announced their acquisition of Intervideo

What I find amusing is the original poster here asked for simple, and each of your posts has successively gotten more techie. Are you here to help, or here to argue?

Was my first post in this thread non-helpful I mentioned DVDWS has some menu limitations, and its future is unclear at the moment. You went off on it's "my problem" and questioned my examples of some of its limitations I explain some more, give more examples, and ask you for some actual substance for the basis of your accusations that other software is "Crap"

I ask you -- calling software that is better than DVDWS "crap" being helpful to anyone here

[GeorgeW]

1. DVDSP has few limitations, if any, for example. but it costs money and takes time to learn. I've been using it for 5 years on and off, and still don't grasp every aspect of the program. It comes with a book so thick that my major-metro phone book is dwarfed.
2. DVDWS2 has ease of use, excellent starter templates, and many pro features (but not all pro features). But you'll pay for it, not the cheapest.
3. DVD-Lab has compliance issues, and is not very friendly to work with. I would not suggest this unless money is just a serious problem, and you're willing to learn a lot.
4. Ulead MF6 is more template-driven, but also a more amateur kind of package. This is usually something cheap, free, or available as a low-cost upgrade. I would only suggest it in those situations where money is tight, and you're only making DVDs for yourself (not customers).
5. DVD Architect is also not the easiest to work with, lacks what I would consider pro-quality templates (in the versions I've seen). The only time I would suggest this is when you're using Vegas as your editor and want to take advantage of the integrated workflow. It's also a tad pricey.

1) As mentioned, DVDSP's Abstraction Layer can cause long dvd-player seek times due to some complexity and redundant code that it uses as a "template" -- but I understand it does have many pro features, and so it is most likely an excellent Authoring application (I have no experience with it).

2) DVDWS2.x has one of the most user-friendly interfaces (I have always said that is one of its greatest strengths), but at times has "compliance" issues (see your comment on DVDLab Pro). There are cases when it will not pass an Eclipse Audit by replicators. It is pricey, and still missing MANY advanced SD DVD Authoring features/options (see my lists of missing features in posts above -- and those lists are not complete as there are other missing features).

3) DVDLab Pro is a BARGAIN for what it offers and its low cost (imho). Yes, it has a steeper learning curve than DVDWS, but part of that is because of all of its features. I don't know what is meant by "compliance" issues -- but I know folks who have submitted DLP DVD's for replication and they pass Eclipse Audits. And if you are worried about compliance -- then code the entire DVD yourself using your own commands, and compile WITHOUT the Abstraction Layer (yes, you have the option to compile WITHOUT the Abstraction Layer).

4) MovieFactory 6 Plus -- consumer authoring -- wizard/template driven (I have said this many times). And has added bonus of doing "basic" HD-DVD Authoring and burning (to HD-DVD and DVD5/9 discs). It also does direct-to-bluray disc authoring (no Bluray Menus). Makes for simple menu creation that can look semi-pro (due to auto "Switched Menus" and Button Fly-ins (as I mentioned in my first post when trying to be helpful by suggesting something simple).

5) DVDA4 -- offers many advanced SD DVD Authoring features. Define "pricey" -- you can get the FULL version plus Vegas 7 (FULL) for under $300 (gotta shop around). What other combinations of Editing/Authoring are out there for under $300

For example, I've already forgotten how to use DVD-A, it's been a while since I needed it. I've got it open now and it's just been too long... I'd have to re-learn the software just to tell you want it can't do. If I recall correctly, it could not do multiple VTS.

Oh, just noticed your comment about multiple VTS -- DVDA4 does do Multi VTS (as needed -- so You do not recall correctly, or you are using a very old version), the same way DVDWS will use Multi-VTS (when needed). DLP2.x can be setup to do Multi_VTS manually (the beauty of DLP is you have FULL CONTROL). Even MovieFactory will do multi-VTS (as needed).

The point is this -- you throw around your harsh trash-talking statements about other software, yet you don't even use their recent versions enough (if at all) to know their actual strengths and weaknesses. I actually USE DVDWS2.x, DVDA4.x, DLP2.x, DVD MovieFactory (all versions), and several others.

Regards,
George

[lordsmurf]

When it comes to compliance, I do not refer to pressing or replication. Most consumer or even low-end pro software will fail that requirement. If you want to press discs, author with the appropriate software intended for that task.

I refer to DVD players barfing. I've never seen a DVDWS2-made disc barf, whereas I've seen quite a few DVD-Lab discs barf and lock up a player. I've never been able to replicate the issue on my own, but it exists. It's not a media issue, it's an authoring problem. It wasn't user error either, from what I can tell.

My DVD-A is version 3. I see no mention of DVD-A 4 allowing multi VTS, in the "why upgrade" new features mentioned on the Sony site. Maybe v3 had multi-VTS too, but I'm just not remembering right. I don't have time to look into it more.

I've got MF6 too, never use it, too cheesy and kiddie-quality, not an ounce of professionalism to it. It came free with something, I forget what, and the only difference between this version and the "plus" version is HD authoring, which is not important for DVD work. I've gotten several version of MF free in past years.

I get the feeling you're trying to talk with "big words" to sound important. I understand you, but I refuse to participate in your word salad, as I think it makes people sound like pompous asses. It goes against the grain of what I do.

[GeorgeW]

When it comes to compliance, I do not refer to pressing or replication. Most consumer or even low-end pro software will fail that requirement. If you want to press discs, author with the appropriate software intended for that task.

oh -- I didn't realize you had different levels of "compliance" issues -- I guess replication of a DVD doesn't need compliant structures (in your book)

I refer to DVD players barfing. I've never seen a DVDWS2-made disc barf, whereas I've seen quite a few DVD-Lab discs barf and lock up a player. I've never been able to replicate the issue on my own, but it exists. It's not a media issue, it's an authoring problem. It wasn't user error either, from what I can tell.

Which version of DVD Lab PRO are you talking about? Maybe early versions had issues, but over the years they have been worked out (just like other software with early and ongoing issues -- they get worked out with new releases and/or update patches).

My DVD-A is version 3. I see no mention of DVD-A 4 allowing multi VTS, in the "why upgrade" new features mentioned on the Sony site. Maybe v3 had multi-VTS too, but I'm just not remembering right. I don't have time to look into it more.

ummmm, Version 3 also has Multi-VTS (both the scaled down STUDIO version, and the FULL version can do Multi-VTS (when needed)

I've got MF6 too, never use it, too cheesy and kiddie-quality, not an ounce of professionalism to it. It came free with something, I forget what, and the only difference between this version and the "plus" version is HD authoring, which is not important for DVD work. I've gotten several version of MF free in past years.

Like I said, it's a great consumer package from Ulead -- easy menu creation using templates/wizards -- fly-in buttons and "Switched Menus" -- I'm not touting it as an "Advanced" SD DVD Authoring program.

I get the feeling you're trying to talk with "big words" to sound important. I understand you, but I refuse to participate in your word salad, as I think it makes people sound like pompous asses. It goes against the grain of what I do.

I don't even know where you're trying to go with that. I'm trying to offer some advice based on actual hands-on experience. You offer comments that this software is "crap", and that software "sucks" -- but when asked to provide some actual reasons/examples/substance, you throw out more "generalizations" without offering any actual facts, and you try to cover it up with more trash talk. If you're going to trash talk software -- at least have hands-on experience with the underlying software, and also state which version you are trash-talking. Otherwise, folks won't know that perhaps a more recent version resolved whatever issue you are talking about...

[lordsmurf]

If it's not multiple VTS in DVD-A, then it was something else that DVDWS2 does do. I don't really care. I'm mostly trying to point out that each of these has flaws. I remember some, but not all. There's a whole forum here, and in fact an entire Internet, where you can search for this information. Of the list of flaws in each application, only DVDWS2 had them at a level that are acceptable to most people, because most people would not need those features anyway.

Some of the more basic pro-quality DVDWS2 features include (meaning this is not a full list): multiple VTS, playlisting, firstplays, AC3 encoding and importing, motion menus, PSD buttons, button transparency, an accurate preview mode in-software, support for all DVD resolutions in MPEG-2 (and ability to trick it to take MPEG-1 at SIF), ability to author DL folders (set your own layer break when burning via the PgcEdit/ImgBurn method), and some basic menu options (time to default play). You won't find that in most software, and you definitely will not find it in such an easy interface.

The hard part is Photoshop and video work before authoring.

Scripting a menu, button states, and all that other stuff is not necessary to making a good DVD menu. You start to leave the need of 95% of authoring work. And I don't recall the original poster asking for the things you insist are needed.


______________________________

EDIT: Sorry George, but I don't have any more time to converse with you. I'm sure there are things I've said very summarized where you insist on more details. You'll try to dismiss everything I've said because I've not bent over backwards to write you a detailed novel explaining every facet. That's just too damned bad.

I wish the original poster well. DVDWS2 has a trial, so go try it.

[GeorgeW]

If it's not multiple VTS in DVD-A, then it was something else that DVDWS2 does do. I don't really care. I'm mostly trying to point out that each of these has flaws. I remember some, but not all. There's a whole forum here, and in fact an entire Internet, where you can search for this information. Of the list of flaws in each application, only DVDWS2 had them at a level that are acceptable to most people, because most people would not need those features anyway.

Some of the more basic pro-quality DVDWS2 features include (meaning this is not a full list): multiple VTS, playlisting, firstplays, AC3 encoding and importing, motion menus, PSD buttons, button transparency, an accurate preview mode in-software, support for all DVD resolutions in MPEG-2 (and ability to trick it to take MPEG-1 at SIF), ability to author DL folders (set your own layer break when burning via the PgcEdit/ImgBurn method), and some basic menu options (time to default play). You won't find that in most software, and you definitely will not find it in such an easy interface.

The hard part is Photoshop and video work before authoring.

Scripting a menu, button states, and all that other stuff is not necessary to making a good DVD menu. You start to leave the need of 95% of authoring work. And I don't recall the original poster asking for the things you insist are needed.

LOL -- you attempt to list ONE "missing" feature (multi-VTS -- which most folks don't even need to know about), I tell you that you are WRONG AGAIN, and you come back with it must be something else -- well, that about clears things up...

My original post mentioned menu limitations (not other SD DVD Authoring limitations). It also mentioned a concern over the future of the software -- and to at least wait for some word from Corel/Ulead on what their plans are for DVDWS. But then you attacked me, and said it was "my problem" when all I listed was some menu limitations (assuming the OP would start to build their own menus from scratch).


You seem to think that 95% of people authoring SD DVD's can invest their money in DVDWS 2.x and also DO NOT NEED:
-widescreen menus
-ability to control button navigation
-to know whether the company will continue support for the software
-to know if their investment will ever run on Vista
-and I won't even mention the other SD DVD options that are missing -- just sticking to the missing menu functions and some basic investment/business decision fundamentals...

EDIT: Sorry George, but I don't have any more time to converse with you. I'm sure there are things I've said very summarized where you insist on more details. You'll try to dismiss everything I've said because I've not bent over backwards to write you a detailed novel explaining every facet. That's just too damned bad.

I wish the original poster well. DVDWS2 has a trial, so go try it.

-- I already TOLD YOU -- I already own and use DVDWS2.x, and I know the software alot better than you probably think I do. You have not said a thing that supports your claims that DLP2.x and DVDA4 "suck" or are "crap" (as you put it). You have not said a thing as to why DVDWS2.x is better than DLP2.x and DVDA4.

I believe no software is "perfect" -- so you have to look at what each package has to offer (or what each package is missing), and weigh the pros and cons. You also have to look (imho) at what the underlying company plans for the future of said package, and then decide which is best for you (short term and long term -- which is just good planning).

Live long in your 4:3 world