Backing up and restoring OS (XP) drive on to a new HDD

[DB83]

Thought it better to ask before I even attempted this.

I have a quite oldish 320 GB HDD which has 2 partitions. One holds a XP install which I occasionally access as a dual-boot. The other is data.

My suspicion is that the drive is failing (maybe it is full despite what is reported). Some folders on the data partition take ages to load and one can not be accessed at all due to a 'I/O device error'

Of course backing up and restoring the data partition on to a new HDD is a piece of cake so that is not my concern (as long as the back up process reads the drive)

But is there any particular procedure with the XP partition ?

I really want to keep that partition but not to reinstall the OS ie keep everything as it is right now. I have read, maybe got it wrong, that the OS may fail to load since the drive has changed. Is there a quick fix for this ?

Also what software should I use for the backup/restore. I have a brand new WD passport drive to use for the back up which claims to have backup software on it. But it is still in the box at present un-opened. But is there something better/easier to use ?

Thanks for reading. By all means ask if anything is not too clear.

[Poppa_Meth]

I think WD still comes with a custom version of Acronis, so it should work fine. Personally I prefer Macrium Reflect, which has a free version. I backed up and restored my old XP rig many years ago with no problems. I can't remember what software I used, but it was either Acronis or Paragon. If the software has the option, let it create a new MBR instead of cloning the old one and it should boot fine.

[DB83]

Thanks for the quick response.

I have heard of, and maybe used, Acronis in the distant past.

Will report back when the volume is restored on a fixed HDD.

Any other contribution to the thread is more than welcome tho.

[videobruger]

Used CloneZilla to succesfully clone a disc with surface errors where Acronis, Paragon, EaseUS ... failed.

[gonca]

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-windows.htm

Try this
Has free trial, I use it and it has never failed me

[SameSelf]

I use O&O Disk Image simply because no one has ever heard of it

[DB83]

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-windows.htm

Try this
Has free trial, I use it and it has never failed me

Looks interesting.

Thanks.

[DB83]

Used CloneZilla to succesfully clone a disc with surface errors where Acronis, Paragon, EaseUS ... failed.

Will keep that in mind since the drive I am backing up is suspect (as described)

[DB83]

I use O&O Disk Image simply because no one has ever heard of it

Danke !

[Poppa_Meth]

Paragon will definitely choke on disk errors. Ran into that myself. Clonezilla is very good, but expect to spend some time learning it. It has no GUI. Everything will be done from a terminal and a lot of it is not self explanatory. I currently use Terabyte Unlimited Image for Windows and Linux. It's is a very good piece of kit as well. However, it is also highly convoluted once you get outside of basic backup/restore operations. This is because there is so very much this software is capable of, but instead of being housed in one neat package, it's broken into multiple modules and even getting everything you need installed is tricky. Also, it is not one of the more widespread products on the market and both user input and company provided help documents are often out of date.

[october262]

which would be better to use, a SSD or a regular hard drive for an operating system ??

[DB83]

which would be better to use, a SSD or a regular hard drive for an operating system ??

Just to clarify. The 320 gb drive is a 'regular' HDD. My main 'boot' drive for Win7 is indeed a SSD and I turn of AHCI when I need to boot in to XP (since AHCI is a bit of a PITA to set up on XP). The XP system is only for occasional use since it has software that does not work beyond XP. I might not actually use XP again (just upgrade some s/w which might work on Win7 but just do not have the time right now to try that out) but it is there should I need to.

[Poppa_Meth]

I'd be hesitant to go with an SSD for Windows XP. They were nowhere near mainstream when XP died. There just isn't good support in that OS for keeping them healthy. There are programs like AS Cleaner that will manually perform a TRIM-like function. But you have to be careful to setup your OS to avoid issues that can wear out an SSD faster. A good drive like Samsung will have their Magician software to help with configuring the OS and doing some maintenance.

Edit: Just had a thought. If this is dual boot and both drives show up in Win7, then Win7 can handle trim commands for both SSDs.

[october262]

just watched a couple of youtube videos on SSD boot up time and i'm impressed
on how fast windows 7 boots up on an SSD compared to a HDD.

[DB83]

Win7 sees the 320 gb normal drive(appears as Drive D: whereas when XP boots straight up that is then Drive C: and it does not see the SSD) but, naturally, will not run any programs that are on it.

But I guess you are not asking that.

No. I do not intend getting a SSD to replace the 320 gb. Probably go for a WD blue (seems that green are no longer manuf)

[Poppa_Meth]

Red's have taken the place of Greens. Greens were designed for use in things like DVRs. Reds are meant for RAID arrays in servers. Both run at slower speeds I believe. Blues are a decent mainstream drive, but personally I use Blacks for everything that doesn't get an SSD. Blacks are a higher end version of Blues. They are performance drives, have better warranties, and have been very reliable for me.

[Poppa_Meth]

just watched a couple of youtube videos on SSD boot up time and i'm impressed
on how fast windows 7 boots up on an SSD compared to a HDD.

Yep, I have an EVO 740 I believe in an old first gen i3 rig I use for office stuff. Boot time is about 45 seconds from cold start to Windows 7 fully loaded desktop. That accounts for a 10 second delay I have set to choose an OS in Grub since this is a dual boot rig. My Windows 10 rig with a Skylake i5 actually takes a bit longer to fully load. I get to the login screen in about half the time it take for Windows 7, but it takes longer for everything to fully load. This is an 850 EVO. I installed the same drive in a last gen i3 build for my mother running Mint. Boot to fully functional desktop in 15 seconds.

[Skiller]

I did this a few times with XP whenever I moved to a larger HDD using Clonezilla.

I would recommend downloading Ultimate Boot CD which is an assortment of swiss knife tools that can all be booted from CD, independent of the OS, including Clonezilla. It has a simple GUI (including Clonezilla), so no need for typing commands. It's quite easy to use.

[DB83]

Thnx guys for all the suggestions.

At present I am using the s/w that came with the WD passport. Never been one for full backups. Just important files. So, yes, I did reinstall XP when I changed HDD's.

The software does not tell you what it is doing apart from a progress bar and it is incredibly slow. The XP partition has been reported at 50 gig (thought it larger so there already be issues). But I have been using it for almost 2 hours now and less than 17 gig or 33% complete. There are no settings other than what file(s) or drive you want to include and the frequency of the backup.

Methinks I will be trying some other of the above suggestions.

[DB83]

Update:

Yeah. I know. RTFM. Methinks I have wasted the last couple of hours. This backup software lists various exceptions of files it will not include even if one, as I did, select the full drive. I may be wrong but it does list various windows files. So the OS appears to be excluded. Maybe that has been done deliberately but I am equally sure I read before I bought the drive the s/w allowed for the OS as well. After all what is the point of a full backup if it does not include the OS ?

[gonca]

FYI
Image for windows from Terabyte can image a drive in about 5 minutes, and can do the OS while it is in use

[DB83]

Thnx for the suggestion. 5 mins seems rather quick given that data will take time to transfer.

I'm up to 73% on this POS right now. Have just downloaded WD's free version of Acronis True Image so that will be tomorrow's task.

Really did not want to spend all this time on what should be a basic task. And that is before I attempt the restore which is the whole point of the exercise.

[gonca]

Imaged C drive to D drive
Running encode with source on D drive at same time

[Nelson37]

You're going the long way round the horn here.

If you need a functioning, bootable drive, you image the entire thing. Surface problems will take a long time and often fail completely. Just image directly to a drive rather than a backup and restore. Do it all in one step.

If you just need certain files/folders, any old copy prog will work fine, and you'll be made aware of bad files as you go along. But no bootable OS.

Looks like you would need to re-install XP regardless. Usually best with a malfunctioning drive.

Never had an OS issue imaging XP, done many, many times. Some progs do not automatically make the partition active. Clonezilla decent, free, has its own boot disk which is very important. Macrium and acronis also free, work well, good menus. Clonezilla extremely funky interface.

[DB83]

^^ The reason why I appear to be 'going the long way around' is simple (although I guess I could resolve it)

I do not at present have any spare space for a HDD. My PC has 4 + the SSD. The plan is to backup the 'failing' drive. Remove it from the system. Install the new drive and restore the content.

At a push I could temporarily remove one of the other drives and clone/image from there. But before I discovered that this drive was potentially failing I had already purchased the WD passport for other backups and thought it could be put to good use here. Plus I do not have the new HDD yet.

Had a quick look at the WD version of Acronis and that seems to fit my needs. Begs the question why WD bothered to include a different backup program direct on the passport drive. And since I have wasted many hours this evening on a backup which is still not complete (84% in 5 hours) and is probably useless I am somewhat miffed.

[Poppa_Meth]

Most imaging software will exclude certain files. It's usually stuff like the pagefile.sys and hyberfile.sys. Things that are not essential to Windows and and will be automatically recreated when you start up Windows again. Disc Read Errors will slow down a backup as the software tries multiple times to recover the data. DREs can easily read in the thousands on a failing disk. This is likely a big part of the slowdown you are seeing. Another issue is the external drive you bought. These pre-made drives are generally small laptop drives now and run at 5400 RPM. I build my own with a good USB 3.0 enclosure and a WD Black, which runs at 7200RPM and is roughly 33% faster in data transfer. Even my old first gen i3 backup up over 100GB of data in under 20 minutes. My new Skylake i5 easily makes full backups in 5 minutes and differentials in 7.

[DB83]

Maybe I have overreacted but have now cancelled that backup.

Took a look at the created files at the 85% mark and it was at Program Files. So no idea if the Windows folder would have been created.

But what was concerning me was the 'missing' 20 gig - partition was reported at 70 gig yet the backup was only 50. Windows itself could account for 10.

But I will try again tomorrow with Acronis. But if I read that correctly the clone works on the drive not the partition. If the drive if coughing over 50 gig, goodness knows how long 320 gig will take.

All I know right now is in that 5 hours I could have reinstalled XP and the critical software and just copy as much of the data from the other partition to the passport.

[jollyjohn]

I use O&O Disk Image simply because no one has ever heard of it

I used O&O Disk Image once long time ago. I found it so user unfriendly and complicated. I messed up and lost everything on my HDD and had to re format the new HDD and install OS and programs. Lost all my data. Now, I keep back ups in at least two places. Cloned HDDs and images.. But, because we are only human, we make mistakes and pay for that, and also learn.

[DB83]

Well another day and another potential hurdle.

I ran Acronis True Image for the first time this morning. The intention is to back up the OS partition of the failing drive and later restore that partition on the new drive.

Acronis then lists all the drives/partitions on my system. However that particular drive is not shown even though Windows sees it. So I figured that the reason for this is that it is a system drive and that system (XP) is not in AHCI mode. I also figured that if I turned off AHCI mode and boot in to Win7 that drive will then show up.

But here is today's 'Starter for 10' (as anyone who knows about University Challenge will appreciate). Can I actually turn of AHCI mode and still boot in to Win7 ?. And the reason I have my doubts is that when I do turn off AHCI mode and boot in to XP the SSD drive does not show up and I fear that what I saw in Acronis is a mirror image of that.

And even if I am allowed to boot in to Win7 with AHCI mode off will that have any impact on the SSD ?

But here is the odd thing. If I go to the Clone Disk part of Acronis the drive does show up. Obviously I can not clone to an external drive so I might have to abandon the plan of using the passport drive for this backup and just do a straight clone HDD to HDD

[gonca]

If you want to try the free trial for Terabyte
Install IFW in XP partition
Create image of XP partition onto My Passport
Later use IFD, comes with program to restore to new drive