premiere renders avi with wrong field order

[codemaster]

In Premiere Pro CS3, I created a DV PAL project, Upper Field First, or TFF. Project is TFF because the source is MPEG2 TFF, and I encoded the MPEG2 to DV with ffmpeg with -top 1 parameter. With the -top 1 parameter, ffmpeg creates TFF DV.

In this premiere project I have 2 sequences.

When I render sequence 2 to avi lagarith TFF (lossless intermediate), deinterlace it and encode it to h264, there is back and forth motion, as if that lossless intermediate is BFF. AssumeTFF was present in the avs script, before QTGMC.

When I render sequence 1 to avi lagarith TFF (lossless intermediate), deinterlace it and encode it to h264, motion is fluid, as if that lossless intermediate is TFF. AssumeTFF was present in the avs script, before QTGMC.

The DV clips added to sequence 2 are not the problem, they are are TFF, and there is no back and forth motion if I deinterlace and encode them to h264 progressive, using AssumeTFF and then QTGMC in the avs script.

This means that the problem originates from Premiere. It looks like Premiere renders TFF from one sequence inside a TFF project, and BFF from another sequence inside the same TFF project. But all dv clips from sequence 1 and sequence 2 are TFF.

[poisondeathray]

Check your export settings that everything is TFF, and your sequence settings for sequence 2 that it is TFF

As a workaround, either use AssumeBFF() when processing sequence 2 export with QTGMC

By convention, DV is always BFF . or You can use a "desktop" sequence setting instead of DV PAL project (ie. custom sequence settings)

[smrpix]

You can always right click->modify->interpret footage in Premiere to change the field order. (in PP3, the "modify" step may not be necessary.)

[jagabo]

There is no field order flag in DV -- it should always be BFF. You can convert TFF to BFF by shifting the frame up or down by one scanline. With YV12 video that will cause colors to blur a bit. The other method is to convert to fields, throw out the first field, then weave back into interlaced frames. That will retain color sharpness.

[poisondeathray]

And why are you converting to DV with ffmpeg in the first place ? Premiere can import MPEG2 natively (newer versions definitely can, but I think CS3 can too)

[codemaster]

And why are you converting to DV with ffmpeg in the first place ? Premiere can import MPEG2 natively (newer versions definitely can, but I think CS3 can too)

It does import mpeg2, but
- if there are many mpeg2 clips on the timeline, premiere can't open the project, or takes too long to open it;
- if I wrap the wav and mpeg2 streams inside m2ts, premiere generates a loud noise on playback;
- if I import the mpeg2 and wav separately, I can't trim and insert easily with in and out points;
- some longer duration mpeg2 clips take too long to import, or do not import at all;
- if I don't use debugmode frameserver to export, some frames are not rendered;
- if I convert to lagarith, I don't know how to fix luma and chroma levels, in avisynth, and detail that exceeds tv levels will be lost when premiere converts to rgb, but with dv I can fix levels visually, with fast color corrector and yc waveform, before premiere converts to rgb when rendering;
- if I switch to something intra-frame, like dv, all above problems dissapear, except that wrong field order problem with sequence 2.

[jagabo]

Can't you just set lagarith to work in YUY2 mode?

[smrpix]

- if there are many mpeg2 clips on the timeline, premiere can't open the project, or takes too long to open it;
- if I wrap the wav and mpeg2 streams inside m2ts, premiere generates a loud noise on playback;

You may be dealing with issues that were solved in later versions of Premiere. Also, if your profile is correct, your computer may be a bit underpowered. You should have at least 4GB RAM for 64 bit systems.

- if I import the mpeg2 and wav separately, I can't trim and insert easily with in an out points;

Sure you can, just link the clips on the timeline -- or link the clips in their own timeline and use that new timeline as a source.

- some longer duration mpeg2 clips take too long to import, or do not import at all;
- some frames are not rendered;

Again possible old version, underpowered system

- if I switch to something intra-frame, like dv, all above problems dissapear, except that wrong field order problem with sequence 2.

See my earlier post #3

Good Luck

[codemaster]

You can always right click->modify->interpret footage in Premiere to change the field order.

In CS3, field order of clips cannot be changed. Only frame rate, pixel aspect ratio and alpha channel can be changed.

[poisondeathray]

If both sequence 1 & 2 have the same type of TFF ffmpeg DV clips, it sounds like you accidentally used BFF in the export settings for sequence 2 , since sequence 1 exports as expected

What else is different between sequence 1 vs sequence 2

[codemaster]

I did not accidentally used BFF in the export settings for sequence 2. For sequence 2, I used the same export settings as I used for sequence 1. Both sequences have TFF clips in them.

I'm going to try Vegas 7, to see if it can handle many mpeg2 clips. Vegas Pro 8 can't. If Vegas 7 crashes or doesn't render, like Vegas 8 does when there are many mpg clips on the timeline, then I'll have to learn how to fix levels in avisynth, so that I can convert to lagarith and edit in premiere.

[_Al_]

I tested your uploaded mpeg2 in previous thread with Vegas 8.0c, that clip that was named VTS_01_1 (01).mpg, Vegas 8.0c loads it, it works, it can render it even smart, without recompression (MainConcept mpeg2-DVD PAL widescreen-upper field first-CBR 9,400,000). I have i5 Intel, 650@3.2GHz PC

I think it was established by Sanlyns tests (previous thread) that you better leave your video as is, otherwise it will turn out as cartoon as you could see, and he turned into lossless right away, by changing it into DV avi to add one more compression, it makes matters only worse.
Post some overbright clip how bad it is, can't you just leave it as it is?

[codemaster]

Perhaps it works on 64 bit OS with 64 bit Vegas 8. I used Vegas 8 32 bit, on 32 bit XP, and when many mpg clips are in the timeline, there is not enough ram for rendering.

I couldn't figure out how to fix levels so that I can convert to lossless, like sanlyn suggested. And even if I knew how to fix levels, I don't have all the hdd space required by rgb lossless intermediates. I will try it again when I'll have more knowledge and enough hdd space. So I chose to convert to DV and fix levels in Premiere, using fast color corrector and yc waveform.

But now I tried Vegas 7, and added over 53 mpg clips to timeline, like I did in Vegas 8, and it seems that Vegas 7 has enough ram for rendering, doesn't crash, and ram usage is much lower than it was with Vegas 8. And the project opens quickly. Premiere takes too much time to open the project when there are so many mpg clips in timeline, but it opens it very fast if there are only dv clips in timeline.

[codemaster]

I tried again to edit these mpg clips in Premiere, and I noticed some green and red artifacts in some frames. The same frames from the same clips, have no such artifacts in Vegas 7. Also, Premiere repeatedly conforms the mpg clips, it conforms the same clips over and over, and doesn't stop conforming them.