Prepping 4:3 footage for Youtube

[Skite]

Hey guys,

I have been looking for a solution for days and can't find one.
Me and two friends make Let's Plays on a shared Youtube channel.
We recently put some effort into making a universal intro and outtro.
These are available in 720p and 1080p, but we mostly use 720p.

However, sometimes we LP older games that have a 4:3 resolution.
I've tried Avidemux and VirtualDub, but I can't for the life of me figure out a way to open the intro file (720p), append the gameplay footage (which is 1024×768) and outtro (720p) and export a working file.
I've tried adding black borders and resizing to 720p through Avidemux, but the program doesn't allow me to do this without transcoding.
Obviously, I don't want to transcode the footage again, due to quality loss.

Does anyone know of a way with these programs, or otherwise other programs, to add black borders and resize footage, so that I can append the bumpers? All without transcoding.

Regards,
Skite

[Cauptain]

I use Sony Vegas overlay option to this.

1 - Make a project 120x720

2 - Make a black image 1280x720 and open it.

3 - Insert your opening and videos.

4 - Encode using 720p with LOSSLESS codec and enjoy.




Claudio

[poisondeathray]

Does anyone know of a way with these programs, or otherwise other programs, to add black borders and resize footage, so that I can append the bumpers? All without transcoding.

Not possible; you can't resize or add borders without re-encoding

You can try resizing & re-encode the intro/outro to 1024x768 then appending to the main segment, at least you won't have to re-encode the main segment, but the video will be 1024x768

[Skite]

Thanks for replying.

I use Sony Vegas overlay option to this.

1 - Make a project 120x720

2 - Make a black image 1280x720 and open it.

3 - Insert your opening and videos.

4 - Encode using 720p with LOSSLESS codec and enjoy.

Claudio

Not an option. I'm not going to pay premium price for hell of a lot that I do not need.
Besides, I've tried Vegas, Adobe and other 'premium' software a long time ago and found that they lack a serious number of options for transcoding/encoding upon exporting the outcome.

Not possible; you can't resize or add borders without re-encoding

Then, do you know of a way to transcode with minimal loss?

You can try resizing & re-encode the intro/outro to 1024x768 then appending to the main segment, at least you won't have to re-encode the main segment, but the video will be 1024x768

This would warp the bumpers, so not a very good option.
Even if I got the project files and get the bumpers in that 4:3 resolution, YT would transcode it again upon upload.
And I don't trust YT's transcoding to do wonders for quality.

I find it odd that there isn't a simple solution to this in programs in lieu of Avidemux. The adding of borders and resizing has nothing to do with the codecs, why are we forced to re-encode?

[poisondeathray]

Then, do you know of a way to transcode with minimal loss?

You can use a lossless codec like Cauptain suggested, but the filesize will be enormous, easily 10x . And youtube will butcher it anyway when it re-encodes, not really worth it IMO

You can use x264 with decent settings and it will be visually lossless, and managable filesize

This would warp the bumpers, so not a very good option.

You would letterbox it in a 1024x768 frame to keep the AR

Even if I got the project files and get the bumpers in that 4:3 resolution, YT would transcode it again upon upload.
And I don't trust YT's transcoding to do wonders for quality.

This point is moot, because YT is going to re-encode anyway regardless of what you do

I find it odd that there isn't a simple solution to this in programs in lieu of Avidemux. The adding of borders and resizing has nothing to do with the codecs, why are we forced to re-encode?

I don't understand your question? If you change the size, you have to re-encode, there is no way around it, regardless of codec or program used

[theewizard]

you can try ..transcode with a 'bit rate' thats higher than the source video, so there is No data loss, use a loss less format when transcoding
opf course your file is going to get bigger since your adding footage to each end and black bars on each side of the video,but if you use a loss less codec there should be very minimal degradation

is there a way to set your record settings
to record in a wider format and record the black bars on the screen
record sd 4:3 as a captured 16:9 image, the same size as your intro file
then you wouldn't have the re-encoding problem

[Skite]

You can use a lossless codec like Cauptain suggested, but the filesize will be enormous, easily 10x . And youtube will butcher it anyway when it re-encodes, not really worth it IMO

You can use x264 with decent settings and it will be visually lossless, and managable filesize

The source files are Bandicam files, which is set up to use x264 at YT's preferred settings.
Wouldn't re-encoding it with the same settings have it apply the encoding twice, thus increasing the chance of artifacts and errors?
I've tried it with the quantizer set at 0, but for whatever reason, it doubles in filesize. Other than blackness, I'm not adding anything. In fact, the resizing will make the footage a marginal amount smaller, so I would expect the filesize to be smaller. Unless blackness is saved as hard data in video streams? That would explain.
Done in Avidemux, btw. I thought Quantizer could only go up to 1, being 1-on-1, but it allowed a setting of 0.

I don't understand your question? If you change the size, you have to re-encode, there is no way around it, regardless of codec or program used

A misunderstanding of the terminology, sorry. English is not my native language.
The alterations would be done to the video stream and this would require encoding.

[Cauptain]

Thanks for replying.

Not an option. I'm not going to pay premium price for hell of a lot that I do not need.
Besides, I've tried Vegas, Adobe and other 'premium' software a long time ago and found that they lack a serious number of options for transcoding/encoding upon exporting the outcome.

It has long since you used the VEGAS then.

Vegas is currently the most complete editor in terms of output / encodes / transcodes. Its cost (Vegas Movie Studio 11) $45,00 and will do everything you need.

For free solution, Virtualdub resize using frameserver.



Claudio

[poisondeathray]

Wouldn't re-encoding it with the same settings have it apply the encoding twice, thus increasing the chance of artifacts and errors?

Re-encoding it with any settings except for lossless will cause generation loss

When you re-encode with a lossy format, you incur quality loss

I've tried it with the quantizer set at 0, but for whatever reason, it doubles in filesize. Other than blackness, I'm not adding anything. In fact, the resizing will make the footage a marginal amount smaller, so I would expect the filesize to be smaller. Unless blackness is saved as hard data in video streams? That would explain.

Yes, but quantizer 0 is lossless. Even black pixels take up room. "Lossless" is a term used in reference to uncompressed streams, not the original compressed stream, thus the filesize is much larger, but much smaller than if you used uncompressed data

[budwzr]

[COLOR=Navy][I]I use Sony Vegas overlay option to this.

1 - Make a project 120x720

2 - Make a black image 1280x720 and open it.

3 - Insert your opening and videos.

4 - Encode using 720p with LOSSLESS codec and enjoy.

Ummm..."Overlay Option"?

[Cauptain]

Ummm..."Overlay Option"?

Forgot the correct name and remembered only the overlay function . For any video just set resolution desired in project and drag drop that works.




Claudio

[budwzr]

OK, because the black box threw me off. Hey, we're "Vegas Pro 12 Budz".

[Cauptain]

Particularly like Sony Vegas. Too bad not having in my native language.



Claudio

[Skite]

It has long since you used the VEGAS then.

I'm afraid it has been a long time, indeed.

For free solution, Virtualdub resize using frameserver.

Claudio

You mean hooking VD up with Avisynth? I've tried messing with Avisynth once, but couldn't figure it out.
Could you help me out with that?

Re-encoding it with any settings except for lossless will cause generation loss

When you re-encode with a lossy format, you incur quality loss

Yes, so it is impossible to keep the already encoded file at the same quality.

Yes, but quantizer 0 is lossless. Even black pixels take up room. "Lossless" is a term used in reference to uncompressed streams, not the original compressed stream, thus the filesize is much larger, but much smaller than if you used uncompressed data

The thing is, Bandicam already saves to a lossy format. This is perfect, because I can directly record in settings that YT likes, to cut off processing time. Not to mention the optimal quality vs. filesize, which means shorter upload times.

[poisondeathray]

Yes, so it is impossible to keep the already encoded file at the same quality.

Unless you use a lossless codec (huge filesizes)

Yes, but quantizer 0 is lossless. Even black pixels take up room. "Lossless" is a term used in reference to uncompressed streams, not the original compressed stream, thus the filesize is much larger, but much smaller than if you used uncompressed data

The thing is, Bandicam already saves to a lossy format. This is perfect, because I can directly record in settings that YT likes, to cut off processing time. Not to mention the optimal quality vs. filesize, which means shorter upload times.

That might be suitable if you didn't intend to edit it, and wanted to upload it as is. If you edit it, you have to re-encode, and if you use a lossy format, you incur generation loss


That's why people use a lossless recording if they intend to edit it (such as you're doing now by resizing, adding borders). Your edits are in the lossless domain, when you export, you compress it so it's a suitable filesize for uploading. Therefore 1 less generation loss

[Cauptain]

You mean hooking VD up with Avisynth? I've tried messing with Avisynth once, but couldn't figure it out.
Could you help me out with that?

The thing is, Bandicam already saves to a lossy format. This is perfect, because I can directly record in settings that YT likes, to cut off processing time. Not to mention the optimal quality vs. filesize, which means shorter upload times.

Yes. I will make a little guide to make this.

Bandicam (I use it sometimes) you can select YV12 codec to make a lossless encode. Huge files? Yes, but you can process in full quality in any editor.





Claudio

[budwzr]

Mpeg2 files can be concatenated using a DOS command. And I think SolveigMM Splitter does that too, no? That would solve the recoding problem. Mpeg2 is lossy, but not so much if you keep the bitrate higher.

But then you would lose the time gained when uploading to YT. It would take longer to transcode.

This video stuff, like anything else, always has a tradeoff. You can't pick all the good parts and just leave the rest.

[Skite]

Yes. I will make a little guide to make this.

Thank you very much! I'll await your guide.

Bandicam

(I use it sometimes) you can select YV12 codec to make a lossless encode. Huge files? Yes, but you can process in full quality in any editor.

Claudio

This video stuff, like anything else, always has a tradeoff. You can't pick all the good parts and just leave the rest.

I know this. Which is why I'm always looking for the most optimal solution. The least time in the entire process with the most quality I can get. Bandicam, especially with the x264 ability, saved us a lot of time as long as we didn't have to edit. The only things missing are more options for the sound settings, container settings and not being able to do a two-pass with Bandicam. The option is there to make it a first pass and save a stat file, but for some reason, it doesn't want to work when doing a second pass with transcoding software.

I'm thinking the best solution in this scenario is to export the bumpers to exactly the same resolution as the game footage and then just stick them together with Avidemux or VDub.
I'm eager to see what Claudio comes up with, though. Maybe his guide will let me understand Avisynth and not make it so horribly complicated as it looks.

Anyways, I just want to thank you guys for everything so far. I was kind of expecting a 'GO LERN 2 USE GOGLE LULZ', but you've all been very receptive.

[Cauptain]

Hi Prepping

I know you wanted otherwise.

I hope it helps.


1 - Download: Virtualdub, Avisynth and X264vfw and install/extract both.

2 - Put the videos in the same directory (opening.avi, bandicam.avi, outtro.avi)

3 - Click button 2 and select New: avisynth script.

4 - Copy and paste the line below:

DirectShowSource("opening.avi")+DirectShowSource(" bandicam.avi").addborders(128,0,128,0).PointResize (1280, 720)+DirectShowSource("outtro.avi")

5 - Opening this in Virtualdub.

6 - Encode using x264 and enjoy.


Source video file (1024x768):


Avisynth video file (1280x720):




Easy? Some clues:


- Both videos must have the same framerate. If not, you can use the function "AssumeFPS".

Example: DirectShowSource("opening.avi").AssumeFPS(60,1) = opening@60fps, if file are 30fps use .AssumeFPS(30,1)...

- Both videos must have audio. No need have music but audio track. If one does not have audio, give error.


Try it. Any doubts, reply.


PS: All users can provide feedback on how to improve the script.





Claudio

[Skite]

Hi Prepping

Hey Claudio/Cauptain, the nickname is Skite, haha.
Prepping is an abbreviation of preparing.

I know you wanted otherwise.

I hope it helps.


1 - Download: Virtualdub, Avisynth and X264vfw and install/extract both.

2 - Put the videos in the same directory (opening.avi, bandicam.avi, outtro.avi)

3 - Click button 2 and select New: avisynth script.

4 - Copy and paste the line below:

DirectShowSource("opening.avi")+DirectShowSource("bandicam.avi").addborders(128,0,128,0).PointResize(1280, 720)+DirectShowSource("outtro.avi")

5 - Opening this in Virtualdub.

6 - Encode using x264 and enjoy.


Source video file (1024x768):

[Attachment 15936 - Click to enlarge]

Avisynth video file (1280x720):

[Attachment 15937 - Click to enlarge]



Easy? Some clues:


- Both videos must have the same framerate. If not, you can use the function "AssumeFPS".

Example: DirectShowSource("opening.avi").AssumeFPS(60,1) = opening@60fps, if file are 30fps use .AssumeFPS(30,1)...

- Both videos must have audio. No need have music but audio track. If one does not have audio, give error.


Try it. Any doubts, reply.


PS: All users can provide feedback on how to improve the script.





Claudio

Thanks, I'll give this a go!

[Skite]

Crap. I just found out whilst editing some 16:9 footage, that Bandicam saves at 30,00003 FPS instead of 30FPS.
VDub gives an error.

[poisondeathray]

Everything has to be the same, even audio sample rate. You have to conform one to match the other, so if you slow down the fps you have to slow the audio as well to match

Post the mediainfo (view=>text) of the intro/outro and the bandicam recorded footage

So I'm assuming you want to scale & pillarbox the bandicam footage and join with the intro/outro segments ? (so everything is 1280x720p30.0 )

[Cauptain]

Crap. I just found out whilst editing some 16:9 footage, that Bandicam saves at 30,00003 FPS instead of 30FPS.
VDub gives an error.

Its no problem.

Modify script like this.

DirectShowSource("opening.avi")+DirectShowSource("bandicam.avi").AssumeFPS(30,1).addborders(128,0,128,0).Poi ntResize(1280, 720)+DirectShowSource("outtro.avi")

Claudio

[Skite]

Everything has to be the same, even audio sample rate. You have to conform one to match the other, so if you slow down the fps you have to slow the audio as well to match

Post the mediainfo (view=>text) of the intro/outro and the bandicam recorded footage

So I'm assuming you want to scale & pillarbox the bandicam footage and join with the intro/outro segments ? (so everything is 1280x720p30.0 )

Yes. We make Let's Plays, two friends and I. On the same channel on Youtube.
We do whatever games we enjoy playing, so sometimes they're old and have smaller resolutions, or can't go widescreen.
I've got a whole bunch of series waiting to be edited and uploaded with our new bumpers.
Railroad Tycoon 2 is the game that has the 4:3 resolution, 1024 × 768. The bumpers are available in 720p and 1080p. Everything is set at 30FPS, but apparently, Bandicam doesn't save at true 30FPS.

Railroad Tycoon 2 (old game) metadata;

General
Complete name                            : D:\My Documents\My Movies\BandiCam raw\RT2_PLAT\RT2_PLAT 2012-12-10 20-23-08-688.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
File size                                : 317 MiB
Duration                                 : 28mn 4s
Overall bit rate                         : 1 579 Kbps
Writing application                      : BandiAviMuxer 1.0

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : x264
Codec ID                                 : x264
Duration                                 : 28mn 4s
Bit rate                                 : 1 373 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 024 pixels
Height                                   : 768 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate                               : 30.000 fps
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.058
Stream size                              : 276 MiB (87%)

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : MPEG Audio
Format version                           : Version 1
Format profile                           : Layer 2
Codec ID                                 : 50
Duration                                 : 28mn 4s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 38.6 MiB (12%)
Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration                     : 24 ms (0.72 video frame)

Jagged Alliance Crossfire (modern game) metadata;

General
Complete name                            : D:\My Documents\My Movies\BandiCam raw\GameJACrossfire\2a.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
File size                                : 986 MiB
Duration                                 : 50mn 46s
Overall bit rate                         : 2 714 Kbps
Writing application                      : BandiAviMuxer 1.0

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : x264
Codec ID                                 : x264
Duration                                 : 50mn 46s
Bit rate                                 : 2 317 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 30.000 fps
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.084
Stream size                              : 841 MiB (85%)

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : MPEG Audio
Format version                           : Version 1
Format profile                           : Layer 2
Codec ID                                 : 50
Duration                                 : 50mn 46s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 384 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 139 MiB (14%)
Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration                     : 24 ms (0.72 video frame)

Bumpers metadata;

General
Complete name                            : D:\Workbench\Intro\intro_720p_30fps.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42
File size                                : 1.96 MiB
Duration                                 : 6s 0ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 2 740 Kbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-01-01 17:04:44
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-01-01 17:04:44
©TIM                                     : 00:00:00:00
©TSC                                     : 30
©TSZ                                     : 1

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=4, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 6s 0ms
Bit rate                                 : 2 438 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 30.000 fps
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.088
Stream size                              : 1.74 MiB (89%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-01-01 17:04:44
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-01-01 17:04:44

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 6s 0ms
Source duration                          : 6s 37ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 243 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 139 KiB (7%)
Source stream size                       : 140 KiB (7%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-01-01 17:04:44
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-01-01 17:04:44

Its no problem.

Modify script like this.

DirectShowSource("opening.avi")+DirectShowSource("bandicam.avi").AssumeFPS(30,1).addborders(128,0,128,0).Poi ntResize(1280, 720)+DirectShowSource("outtro.avi")

Claudio

VDub returns with error 'video framerates do not match'.

[poisondeathray]

I think Claudio's pillarbox numbers are a bit off

In a 1280x720 (square pixel) sized frame, it should be 960x720 (to check, 960/720 = 4:3)

1280 - 960 = 320

320/2 = 160 to each of left and right for pillarbox

For the bandicam section I think it should be:

AVISource("bandicam.avi")
PointResize(960,720)
AddBorders(160,0,160,0)

You can use other algorithms other than pointresize. PointResize will preserve the "blocky" look , so if you are playing something like a dos game it might be appropriate. Other games, you might want to use a different resize algorithm

You probably won't notice sync issues between 30.00003 and 30.0 FPS, but if you wanted to , you can add "true" to the AssumeFPS(30,true) and it will adjust the audio as well

I would recommend using AVISource() for AVI sources instead of DirectShowSource(), as directshowsource isn't necessarily frame accurate and can cause many headaches and problems

[Cauptain]

Excelent suggestions poisondeathray.

Normally use 1080x720 for 4:3/720p on YT (it is good and does not lose much AR)



I didnt know what was the container using, because this suggested DSS.

Think he'll end up using DSS because your opening file is MP4. Any suggestions?



Claudio

[poisondeathray]

If intro/outro is MP4 or MKV, then I recommend using FFMpegSource2("video.mp4", atrack=-1)

http://code.google.com/p/ffmpegsource/


DSS should always be "last resort"

[Skite]

I've tried both Claudio's script and with poisondeathray's edits, but errors keep coming up. Apparently, there's quite some incompatibilities between the bumpers and any game footage.

It looks to me like I have to convert something to the other before I can put everything together. It's all a lot of information, more than I can handle at the moment, though. I've got no idea how to go on about this.

[Cauptain]

I've tried both Claudio's script and with poisondeathray's edits, but errors keep coming up. Apparently, there's quite some incompatibilities between the bumpers and any game footage.

It looks to me like I have to convert something to the other before I can put everything together. It's all a lot of information, more than I can handle at the moment, though. I've got no idea how to go on about this.

Can upload a samples from game and opening?? (15 seconds each).



Claudio

[Skite]

Can upload a samples from game and opening?? (15 seconds each).



Claudio

I assume you mean to an upload service, not Youtube? Let me get that for you.
There we go. https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6gatqcq55qbv7r/Test.7z