Converting PAL to NTSC?

[Djehuty]

Greetings,

I have a number of DVDs which I need to be able to play in a standard NTSC-only DVD player. These DVDs are all in PAL format, interlaced, anamorphic widescreen. I've been searching for a way to do this, but everything I've tried thus far hasn't quite worked. Threads on this forum and a few others that popped up in Google led me to AviSynth, HC Encode, DGMPGDec, DGPulldown, and VirtualDub. I already had DVD Decrypter and ImgBurn.

After much experimentation, I tried the following, which almost worked:

1) Used DGMPGDec to separate the audio and make a .d2v file.
2) Used an AviSynth script in HC Encode, with the DGDecode and Yadif plugins, to deinterlace the video and resize it to 720 x 480.
3) Used DGPulldown to increase the framerate to NTSC standard.
4) Ran DGMPGDec again on the result.
5) Used an AviSynth script in VirtualDub to open video and audio and put them back together in an .avi file.

The resulting file played, with sound, but the sound was out of sync. I thought I could fix it by changing the offset, but doing that made it start too late and still be out of sync later. Then I realized the problem was that the video was now quite a few frames longer than before, which threw off the audio track.

Is there any way to fix this? I'd be grateful for any assistance, especially if it's rendered in a simple format that the most non-expert of non-experts can understand.

[Moontrash]

the very simplest thign to do is to just buy and multi player dvd player liek thsi one...ive been suing them for the last 6 or 7 years so pal to ntsc conversion isnt necessary...plus they're not very expensive...saves time and hassle

Philips 3560

if your dead set on pal to ntsc conversion with software then there 2 pretty simple methods that work...you can use avstodvd or multiavchd to do it...all the tools come with the apps

[John-Paul]

There's probably better ways to do it now days as mentioned above, but it could be that you haven't changed the duration of your audio file (from step 1) to match the new duration (different fps) of your output video file before you've muxed them together.

[Djehuty]

Moontrash, buying a DVD player for this isn't an option. I really do have to play the DVDs on standard NTSC-only machines. I'll take a look at that software, though, and see if I can get it to do the conversion.

John-Paul, how would I go about changing the duration of the audio file?

Thanks!

[John-Paul]

You could try Mediainfo on the separate video and audio files (ie: before you mux them) and check the durations of each to see if they match. Also, with your video file take note of whether you've encoded to 29.97 fps or 23.976 fps.

[manono]

You said in 5) you're muxing for an AVI? If so, your entire workflow makes no sense at all. 25fps AVIs can be played in NTSC DVD players that also play XviD/DivX AVIs. And if you're really making AVIs, steps 2-4 are completely wrong. If you leave out steps 4 and 5, maybe you could make an NTSC DVD.

Two more things. How do you know the source PAL DVD is interlaced? If a movie, it's probably not interlaced. Check the frames. If you don't see interlacing it's not interlaced, and using Yadif on it will do nothing but degrade it.

As for the sound being out of synch when done. If you encode a 25fps PAL source at 23.976fps, that will create out-of-synch audio. The trick is to encode at 25fps (yes, even with NTSC 720x480 resolution) and then run DGPulldown for 25->29.97fps. That way the length remains the same and the audio can be used unchanged. Even if you mistakenly encode at 23.976fps, you could still run DGPulldown afterwards for 25->29.97fps to 'fix' the length back to the same length as the audio. All of this supposes you're making an NTSC DVD. But, again, your 5) says otherwise.

[Djehuty]

Manono, I'm a newbie at this, so I'm not surprised what I did makes no sense. I turned it into an AVI because VirtualDub was the only one of the programs I had that seemed willing to put sound back with the video. I'm not specifically making AVIs. I don't really care what the final file format is, so long as cheap, older DVD players will play it correctly. I'm doing this for a professor, so he can play these for a class (it's a documentary in which he appears, and the discs were provided by the publisher). Unfortunately, we don't get to choose the DVD players.

As for the interlacing, I think it's interlaced video, but of course I could be wrong. I see horizontal lines across the image where there's movement, and it largely clears up when I turn on deinterlacing in VLC Player. But the lines returned (if not quite as clearly) in the final encoding (the one with messed-up sound), so it could be something else entirely. This isn't a movie, it's a German TV program. On the disc it just says PAL 16:9.

Finally, about the framerate, I never changed that until I used DGPulldown. I don't have Mediainfo installed yet, but Windows says the "before" video is 25 fps, and the "after" is 29, so I assume DGPulldown did its work as advertised. I've just noticed, though, that the duration isn't appearing correctly in the Windows info panel. The front of the disc says 43:19. Windows says the VOB is 47:40, which VLC Player confirms (the number on the disc apparently doesn't count the credits). But the files produced after step 2 claim a length of 23:50, and VLC Player doesn't register anything, just 0:00 at any point in the film. I presume this is because of what Yadif does to deinterlace.

Am I making this all more complex than it needs to be?

[manono]

I'm not specifically making AVIs. I don't really care what the final file format is, so long as cheap, older DVD players will play it correctly.

They won't. It's a special class of DVD player that can also play AVIs. What you need to do is author the video and the audio (assuming both are DVD compliant) with an authoring program to make it playable in a standard DVD player.. Muxman is easy, very good, and free.

I see horizontal lines across the image where there's movement, and it largely clears up when I turn on deinterlacing in VLC Player.

OK, then maybe it really is interlaced. Generally, interlaced sources are kept interlaced for DVD. There is a problem when converting to NTSC DVD, though, because you have to be careful when resizing an interlaced video. Since you know Yadif, you could resize like this:

AssumeTFF()
Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
AssumeTFF()
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()
ConvertToYUY2(Interlaced=True)#for MPEG-2 encoders expecting YUY2. For HCEnc ConvertTOYV12(Interlaced=True)

Then encode as interlaced 29.97fps and no need for DGPulldown. Either that or deinterlace it as you did, followed by the resize to 720x480, encode as progressive 25fps, and later apply DGPulldown for 25->29.97fps.

...so I assume DGPulldown did its work as advertised.

Yes it did. It did what you told it to do. And if you used the default setting for DGPulldown, you applied pulldown to a 23.976fps video, thus changing the final framerate but also the length of the video. You can confirm by checking the initial length (the length in the AviSynth script), and comparing that to the final length, after pulldown (or after making the AVI).

The front of the disc says 43:19. Windows says the VOB is 47:40

I rest my case. By applying pulldown as you did, you lengthened the video. But there's something screwy there (probably the front of the case) because it shouldn't have been lengthened by over 4 minutes. More like 2 minutes. Check the AviSynth script in VDub's File->File Information.

But the files produced after step 2 claim a length of 23:50

Ignore that. You can't get a correct length by just playing an MPV/M2V.

You might give Avs2DVD a try. It can also do PAL to NTSC conversions.

[Djehuty]

Sorry about the lack of response, I didn't have a chance to get back to this until this morning. I'm trying to work with AVStoDVD, on the assumption that anyone who can create such a program knows more about this stuff than I do, so it'll be safer than my muddled attempts at dealing with AviSynth scripts. I have managed to burn a DVD that plays on my cheap NTSC-only player, but there are still a couple of problems.

The original is in anamorphic widescreen format. I told AVStoDVD to make the new version at 720x480 resolution, 16:9 aspect ratio. What shows up on my TV is letterboxed, but not quite right. The first problem is that the letterboxing crops the top and bottom of the frame, so that a fair amount is simply covered, rather than everything appearing within the borders. The second problem is that the image still appears vertically stretched (or horizontally squashed, whichever you prefer).

How do I get this to work properly, so that the image looks exactly as it should based on the original?

Also, ImgBurn returned an error when verifying the disc. Am I right in thinking that reducing the burn speed will help eliminate these errors when I try again? Probably a stupid question, but I really am a newbie.

[_MrC_]

Sorry about the lack of response, I didn't have a chance to get back to this until this morning. I'm trying to work with AVStoDVD, on the assumption that anyone who can create such a program knows more about this stuff than I do, so it'll be safer than my muddled attempts at dealing with AviSynth scripts. I have managed to burn a DVD that plays on my cheap NTSC-only player, but there are still a couple of problems.

The original is in anamorphic widescreen format. I told AVStoDVD to make the new version at 720x480 resolution, 16:9 aspect ratio. What shows up on my TV is letterboxed, but not quite right. The first problem is that the letterboxing crops the top and bottom of the frame, so that a fair amount is simply covered, rather than everything appearing within the borders. The second problem is that the image still appears vertically stretched (or horizontally squashed, whichever you prefer).

How do I get this to work properly, so that the image looks exactly as it should based on the original?

Also, ImgBurn returned an error when verifying the disc. Am I right in thinking that reducing the burn speed will help eliminate these errors when I try again? Probably a stupid question, but I really am a newbie.

Could you post the AVStoDVD project log file? It is located in output folder.



Bye

[Djehuty]

Certainly, thanks for being willing to take a look at it.

-----

<2011.08.19 11:49:51>
START PROCESS
<>

<2011.08.19 11:49:51>
PROJECT SETTINGS

DVD Video Standard: NTSC
DVD Titles number: 1
DVD Size: 3003/4450 MB (67%)
DVD Output Setup: ISO UDF Image
DVD Label: Planet Egypt 01
DVD Menu: Static Menu
Output Folder: D:\Videos
Delete Temp Process Files: Yes
Delete Working Files: Yes
Edit Command Parameters: No
Post Process Task: Show Progress Status window

PREFERENCES

MultiThread: 1
AVS Source Filter: A2DSource
AVS UpSize/DownSize Filter: Lanczos4Resize/Spline64Resize
Video Resolution: 0
Video BitRate Min: 2500
Video BitRate Level 1: 6500
Video Profile Level 2: 4500
Video BitRate Max: 8500
Keep DVD Compliant Video: 1
AC3 Audio Encoder: 0
PAL SpeedUp: 0
Force FFmpeg for Long Audio: 1
DVD Audio Format: 0
DVD Audio BitRate: 192
Keep DVD Compliant Audio: 1
Normalize Audio: 0
Auto Delay Audio: 1
DVD Audio Language (Primary): EN - English
DVD Audio Language (Secondary): EN - English
DVD Subs Language (Primary): EN - English
DVD Subs Language (Secondary): EN - English
DVD Subs Font: Tahoma 18pt
Chapters Interval: 5
Use Source Chapters: 1
DVD Burning Drive: E: TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S222L SB01
DVD Burning Speed: 12x
Auto Erase DVD RW: 1
Save Log file: 1
Display errors messages: 1
Unload ActiveMovie library: 0
Adjust ffdshow mixer: 1
Save General Settings: 0
<>

<2011.08.19 11:49:51>
TITLE 1 SOURCE FILES
Video: D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01\VTS_01_1.d2v
Info: DGIndex - 4221 kbps - 720x576 - DAR 1.333 - 25 fps (CFR) - Interlaced (BFF) - 47:39 minutes - 71497 frames
Audio 1: D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01\VTS_01_1 Ta0 48K 16bit 2ch.wav
Info: PCM - 1536 kbps - CBR - 2 ch - 48000 Hz - 47:39 minutes (0 ms delay) - External
[A2DInfo.avsi]
<>

<2011.08.19 11:49:51>
AVISYNTH SCRIPT
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\Lib\A2DSource.avsi")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\DGIndex\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\Lib\LeakKernelDeint.dll")

Video = MPEG2Source("D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01\VTS_01_1.d2v")
Audio = A2DAudioSource("D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01\VTS_01_1 Ta0 48K 16bit 2ch.wav", CacheFolder="C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp")

Video = Video.ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
#Using DGPulldown/HCenc to upsize FPS
Video = Video.LeakKernelBob(0,7,false,false)
Video = Video.Spline64Resize(720,480,0,66,0,-66)
Video = Video.SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4,0,3).Weave()

AudioDub(Video, Audio)
<>

<2011.08.19 11:49:51>
START VIDEO ENCODING OPERATIONS
Encoding Profile: HCenc VBR 2-pass
Target Video FileSize: 2898 MB
HCenc Parameters: -ini "C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01.HCenc.ini"
HCenc ini file:
*INFILE C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01_1.avs
*AVSRELOAD
*OUTFILE D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01.m2v
*LOGFILE C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01.HCenc.log
*MAXBITRATE 9000
*BITRATE 8500
*PROFILE BEST
*ASPECT 16:9
*INTERLACED
*BFF
*BIAS 80
*DC_PREC 10
*MATRIX MPEG
*AQ 1
*LUMGAIN 1
*SMP
*PRIORITY IDLE
*WAIT 2
<>

<2011.08.19 12:39:53>
END VIDEO ENCODING OPERATIONS
Created File: D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01.m2v (2733.4 MB)
OUTPUT VIDEO INFO: MPEG-2 Video - 8077 kbps - 720x480 - DAR 1.778 - 25 fps (CFR) - Interlaced (BFF) - 47:39 minutes - 71497 frames
<>

<2011.08.19 12:39:53>
START PULLDOWN OPERATIONS
DGPulldown Parameters: "D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01.m2v" -srcfps 25.000 -destfps 29.97 -inplace -bff
<>

<2011.08.19 12:42:11>
END PULLDOWN OPERATIONS
DGPulldown executed on File: D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01.m2v (2733.4 MB)
OUTPUT VIDEO INFO: MPEG-2 Video - 8077 kbps - 720x480 - DAR 1.778 - 29.97 fps (CFR) - Progressive - 47:39 minutes - 85709 frames
<>

<2011.08.19 12:42:12>
START AUDIO ENCODING OPERATIONS (Track 1)
Wavi+Aften Parameters: "C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01_1.avs" - | "C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\Aften\aften.exe" -b 192 -pad 0 -dynrng 5 -bwfilter 0 - "D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01_1.ac3"
<>

<2011.08.19 12:42:45>
END AUDIO ENCODING OPERATIONS (Track 1)
A2DAudioSource: DirectShowSource
Created File: D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01_1.ac3 (65.5 MB)
OUTPUT AUDIO INFO: AC3 - 192 kbps - CBR - 2 ch - 48000 Hz - 16 bit - 47:39 minutes (0 ms delay)
<>

<2011.08.19 12:42:46>
START DVD MENU BUILDING OPERATIONS
DVD Menu settings:
Style: 0
Aspect Ratio: 1
Titles Format: 1
Template: Menu in Black
Max Titles Page: 12
Enable Play All: 0
Force Play All: 0
Background Audio: 0
Max Thumbs Row: 4
Thumb Image Source: 0
Thumb Frame Position: 10%
HL Frame Format: 0
HL Selection Color: 5
HL Play Color: 0
Menu Video BitRate: 6000 kbps
Motion Menu Duration: 15 seconds
Thumb Drop Shadow: 2
Play All Shadow: 2
Arrows Shadow: 0
<>

<2011.08.19 12:42:51>
END DVD MENU BUILDING OPERATIONS
Created File (Menu Page 1): D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_MenuPage1.bmp (1 MB)
<>

<2011.08.19 12:42:51>
START DVD AUTHORING OPERATIONS
BatchMux Parameters: -arglist "C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_BatchMux.ini"
BatchMux ini file:
-d "D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0\VIDEO_TS"
-mxp "C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_MuxMan.mxp"
-l "C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_MuxMan.log"
-muxman "C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\MuxMan"
-prio LOW
-v "D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01.m2v"
-vidmode LB
-a1 "D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_Planet Egypt 01_1.ac3"
-a1lang en
-SEG2v "D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_MenuPage1.bmp"
-SEG2vidmode LB
-SEG2s1 "D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0_Menu.sst"
-SEG2s1dmode WIDE_LB
-SEG2hlmnu "C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_MenuPage1_Buttons.mnu"
-SEG2hlcsm "C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_HighlightScheme.csm
-hcn "C:\Users\---\AppData\Local\Temp\Planet Egypt 01_0_BatchMux.hcn"
<>

<2011.08.19 12:44:31>
CHECK DVD SIZE
DVD Folder (actual) Size: 2845.5 MB
vs Estimated Size: 3003 MB -> 5.2% undersize
vs Assets Size: 2799.8 MB -> OK
<>

<2011.08.19 12:44:31>
END DVD AUTHORING OPERATIONS
Created Folder: D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0 (2845.5 MB)
<>

<2011.08.19 12:44:42>
START ISO IMAGE BUILDING OPERATIONS
ImgBurn (ISO) Parameters: /mode isobuild /buildmode imagefile /src "D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0\VIDEO_TS" /dest "D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0.iso" /volumelabel "Planet Egypt 01" /overwrite yes /noimagedetails /start /close
<>

<2011.08.19 12:47:11>
END ISO IMAGE BUILDING OPERATIONS
Created File: D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01_0.iso (2846.1 MB)
<>

<2011.08.19 12:47:11>
Log file created by AVStoDVD Release 2.4.0
<>

[_MrC_]

@Djheuti,

you said that original DVD is PAL anamorphic, but from input file info:

TITLE 1 SOURCE FILES
Video: D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01\VTS_01_1.d2v
Info: DGIndex - 4221 kbps - 720x576 - DAR 1.333 - 25 fps (CFR) - Interlaced (BFF) - 47:39 minutes - 71497 frames
Audio 1: D:\Videos\Planet Egypt 01\VTS_01_1 Ta0 48K 16bit 2ch.wav
Info: PCM - 1536 kbps - CBR - 2 ch - 48000 Hz - 47:39 minutes (0 ms delay) - External

the Display Aspect Ratio is 4:3 (1.333) and not 16:9 (1.778). If the input file DAR is erroneous, you can fix it with DVDPatcher.

Let me know



Bye

[manono]

_MrC_,

If I'm reading that right, it's not the DVD that's 4:3, but the VOBs, as the information seems to be coming from DGIndex. It sometimes happens that the VOBs will be in one DAR and the IFOs in the other. Since a DVD player (almost always) gets its information from the IFOs, it'll play the DVD correctly but when you go to reencode the VOBs, they'll show the other DAR. A program with which I'm familiar, AutoGK, gives you the chance to change the DAR if that happens. You might consider doing the same. Of course, it still might be easier to just run the DVD through DVD Patcher after the DVD has been made. Easier yet would be to just change the IFOs in PGCEdit to 16:9. Then the result will be like the original, a 16:9 DVD with 4:3 VOBs.

But without additional evidence, we don't know for sure that's what's going on here.

[_MrC_]

@manono

you are probably right, let's wait for Djheuti confirmation.

About adding the capability to change source DAR info to AVStoDVD: good suggestion. It could be even generalized to all source info tags. A good amount of code writing, but it could be worthy.



Bye

[Djehuty]

I just tried opening the IFO in AVStoDVD, and it still thinks the original should be 4:3. I've downloaded PGCEdit, but it won't work with the IFO and VOB on my hard drive. I'm not prepared to mess around with the actual original DVD -- I didn't even realize that could be edited.

Is there a way to change the IFO on my hard drive so that it reflects the 16:9 aspect ratio? Perhaps a setting I'm not aware of in DVD Decrypter that would produce the proper results if I ran the DVD through it again? Or what about a way to convince AVStoDVD to produce a 16:9 DVD image that didn't get there by simply pasting black bars over the top and bottom of every frame?

[_MrC_]

@Djheuti,

to change the IFO aspect ratio flag: IfoEdit (guide)

to change the VOB aspect ratio flag: DVDPatcher

to bend AVStoDVD to your will:
1. go to 'Edit Title'/'Video', toggle off 'Auto Video Setup', select 'Widescreen (16:9) as 'Video Aspect Ratio'
2. go to 'Edit Title'/'AviSynth', toggle off 'Auto AviSynth Script', select 'Vertical Resize' and insert '75'



Bye

[manono]

To do it using PGCEdit, open the final and reencoded DVD made by Avs2DVD in PGCEdit. Find the movie in the left panel and right-click on it followed by hitting 'Domain Stream Attributes' Then check the DAR. If it says 4:3, change it to 16:9 and Automatic Letterbox. OK your way back to the main screen, save your work, and test before burning.

[Djehuty]

Hello again,

I've finally had a chance to get back to this project, and I didn't want to leave this thread for good without a final report and round of thanks. I tried editing the IFO, but AVStoDVD still read the edited IFO as if it were 4:3, not 16:9. So I tried the vertical resize suggestion, and that worked perfectly! I now have a DVD that will (I hope) play in any NTSC DVD player. I tried it out in my own player, and a super cheap one my folks got for free from their bank, and it played in both, 16:9 letterboxed, no cropping, no stretching, just a good clear picture. Except for the interlacing lines, but that's an argument to take up with the production company.

Thank you all very much for the help and advice!