mni dv footage capture

[zoranb]

I have loads of mini dv tape footage and i want to transfer it all on in other medium. Mini dv tapes are great dont get me wrong, but once the camera dies then i have no way of watching them, so the footage must be on other more convenient medium.
1. What do you think will be the most appropriate medium? Especially one that there will be no quality loss, like the dv format that the footage is stored in those tapes?
2. What is the best app for capturing that footage for the mac? Im looking for something easy, just to capture the footage without compression. I have no intrest in editing at the moment, just want the footage stored elsewhere from those tapes!

[yoda313]

Just transfer as dv-avi with a firewire cable.

I can't suggest software for a mac as I don't have one. I don't know if imovie can save as unaltered dv-avi. if it has that option just use that. You don't want it doing any compression or conversion until you are ready to.

As far as storage keep it as the original file. It will be 13gb/hour. Invest in a portable harddrive so you can keep the original files.

Please also keep the original tapes. That way you can always get them retransferred in the future should something come up.

You can also span them across dvdrs if you must (the captured dv-avi file that is). Use imgburn to burn the disc (sorry I don't know if its available on the mac that is my automatic suggestion for windows users).

[aedipuss]

miniDV is normally converted to DVD. same size - 720x480 (ntsc) or 720x576 (pal) and both are interlaced. one tape per dvd allows the max dvd bitrate to be used so quality is great.

[edDV]

iMovie can capture DV and export as Quicktime DV. If no filters are used, there should be no re-encode, just a wrapper change.

Be aware that it will be difficult to read a Quicktime DV file on a Windows PC unless you buy Quicktime Pro.

DV captures on a Windows PC (e.g. with WinDV) will be to DV-AVI.

[techiejustin]

Howdy, Zoran!

I mentioned this in another one of your threads. In the Apple Firewire SDK there is a utility called AVCVideoCap. It is a small utility that simply takes whats on your DV camera and dumps it to a file. No weird Apple Intermediate Codec conversions.
You can read about it here, somebody was looking to do the same thing as you:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2294500?start=0&tstart=0

[Cornucopia]

@edDV, No, the free QT player for Windows also happily plays DV.MOV files. No need to buy anything if you don't really need to.

@techiejustin, since iMovie doesn't convert DV to AIC anyway, doing a sidetrip through an SDK is really unnecessary. Just opening up the iMovie cache folder allows you to find and use the raw .DV files for other apps. QT architecture happily accepts raw .DV files as easily as DV.MOV files, so most apps based on QT (FCP/FCS/FCE, MpegStreamclip, etc) will also. They MIGHT want to rewrap upon saving/storage/export, but that's a fairly trivial and quick matter, being a non-reencoding process.

I believe you're confusing DV ingest with HDV or AVC ingest, where those often require use of an intermediate codec to facilitate ease of editing. (And in those cases, it makes the most sense to do so regardless of which app you're in)

Scott

[2Bdecided]

miniDV is normally converted to DVD. same size - 720x480 (ntsc) or 720x576 (pal) and both are interlaced. one tape per dvd allows the max dvd bitrate to be used so quality is great.

I wouldn't put it on a DVD until I'd edited it. And even then, I'd keep edit before MPEG-2 encoding for DVD, because I've never been 100% happy with the quality on DVD (for amateur interlaced footage encoded using a free encoder).

Cheers,
David.

[techiejustin]

@edDV, No, the free QT player for Windows also happily plays DV.MOV files. No need to buy anything if you don't really need to.

@techiejustin, since iMovie doesn't convert DV to AIC anyway, doing a sidetrip through an SDK is really unnecessary. Just opening up the iMovie cache folder allows you to find and use the raw .DV files for other apps. QT architecture happily accepts raw .DV files as easily as DV.MOV files, so most apps based on QT (FCP/FCS/FCE, MpegStreamclip, etc) will also. They MIGHT want to rewrap upon saving/storage/export, but that's a fairly trivial and quick matter, being a non-reencoding process.

I believe you're confusing DV ingest with HDV or AVC ingest, where those often require use of an intermediate codec to facilitate ease of editing. (And in those cases, it makes the most sense to do so regardless of which app you're in)

Scott

I figure using a small app to capture the footage is a holdover from my Computer Science days! Only use the amount of resources you really need.
You're right, it has been a while since I captured DV. I should try an experiment with my TRV480.

[zoranb]

Guys its hard to follow with all these names on the table FCP, FCS, FCE, AIC, AVC, ingest... and what have you! I see things have changed since i used to capture dv video.
Isn't there one simple app i can use just to get those dv files out, lossless without any compression?
All this seems like a nightmare! Its gotta be simper than that, just one app, one output file, one medium
I know im being dramatic, but im tying to make a point!

[Cornucopia]

Already answered. Cap with iMovie. Go to movie cache and burn those .dv files as data to DVD to archive.

If you want something edited, authored & playable on settops (those .dv files won't be) keep them in iMovie then create/export a DVD-Video title from the edit master.

FCP, FCE, FCS all deal with Apple FinalCut. Do you have one of those? If not, ignore.
Ingest just means the process of bringing assets into an editing realm (through capture, copy, transfer, import).

Once again, DV is already a lossy, compressed being while just having been shot and still in the camera. Luckily, the Firewire transfer/capture and editing is basically a lossless process in the chain so what got shot is still the same dv quality once it is edited. Only with the conversion/encoding to MPEG2/DVD or h.264/Youtube does it incur further compression and losses.

Scott

[zoranb]

Capturing with iMovie results in same dv file as if i capture with say... Premiere?

If you want something edited, authored & playable on settops (those .dv files won't be) keep them in iMovie then create/export a DVD-Video title from the edit master.

i remember capturing dv from premiere and then that was edited in premiere

[edDV]

Capturing with iMovie results in same dv file as if i capture with say... Premiere?

If you want something edited, authored & playable on settops (those .dv files won't be) keep them in iMovie then create/export a DVD-Video title from the edit master.

i remember capturing dv from premiere and then that was edited in premiere

The DV video will be the same but if you cap on a Mac, the result will be a raw containerless *.dv stream (using Cornucopia's method) or DV video in a Quicktime wrapper (iMovie export to Quicktime). If you cap on a Windows PC, the DV stream will usually be placed in an AVI wrapper although MXF (Material Exchange Format) can also be used.

[zoranb]

Well capture is gonna be on a Mac (thats for sure) but i dunno which app yet. Whats the disadvantage if a containerless dv stream is output?

[edDV]

Well capture is gonna be on a Mac (thats for sure) but i dunno which app yet. Whats the disadvantage if a containerless dv stream is output?

Not a big problem. Most mac apps can open it. It would need conversion (wrapped) to DV-AVI to be used on a Windows PC.

[zoranb]

all edit will be on a mac

[techiejustin]

all edit will be on a mac

It's easy. Everyone is just tossing a bunch of options at you.

[zoranb]

So to summarize -cause im mixed up- what would be my best option always regarding mac apps?

[mammo1789]

So to summarize -cause im mixed up- what would be my best option always regarding mac apps?

None, buy PC just kidding

[edDV]

So to summarize -cause im mixed up- what would be my best option always regarding mac apps?

What part of post #12 wasn't clear? Repeating...

The DV video will be the same but if you cap on a Mac, the result will be a raw containerless *.dv stream (using Cornucopia's method) or DV video in a Quicktime wrapper (iMovie export to Quicktime).

Or are you saying you don't want to use iMovie?

[zoranb]

Yes to be frank, id prefer not to use iMovie, form the little experience i have with it, i cant say thats it has the most friendly user interface. On the other hand, my experience with Premiere was much more exciting!
What do you say?

[edDV]

Premiere will cap DV on the Mac and gives several ways to save it. I don't have it here to list the export options.

[zoranb]

what would you prefer to use -if you would be working on a mac- and why?

[edDV]

Depends who the customer is. I use Final Cut on the Mac and Vegas/Premiere on the PC because that matches the needs of customers and/or collaborators.

[zoranb]

from all that is said this is how i believe my plan should be:
1. fully capture each tape on one dv file per tape
2. store the captured dv files in dvds (u think they will each fit in one dvd?)
3. use the dv files for later editing
4. still though not certain on what app to use for capturing (iMovie is almost out of the list cause it mixes me up on the location of th e produced files it creates, they seem to be stored to complex directories, i preferred the old fashion way older version of Premiere used to do it, i remember selecting the capture time code, a path and a file specification, and that was it, arent there any apps doing this easy?)

[yoda313]

2. store the captured dv files in dvds (u think they will each fit in one dvd?)

Not likely. Depends on the total length of each file however. Standard def dv-avi is 13gb/hr.

At best you could do disc spanning burns. If its less than an hour you might get it on a dual layer disc.

Best to just buy a large external harddrive to save the captured files to.

AND SAVE YOUR TAPES!

[zoranb]

Then if thats the case, i guess ill capture and save each relevant scenes that the tape has!

[edDV]

Then if thats the case, i guell ill capture and save each relevant scenes that the tape has!

A single layer DVDR only holds 4.3GB which is only about 20min of DV.

I cut my caps into large blocks and label them + track the clips in an Excel database. They all get backed to hard drive and backed to a second hard drive. Plus I keep the original tapes.

[zoranb]

what kind of HD are u using and what capacity?

[edDV]

what kind of HD are u using and what capacity?

I've got many. Any drive will work even the low end USB2 external drives. Hard drive prices are coming back to normal after the Thailand floods. Western Digital says supplies are returning to normal so expect price drops soon.