Converting VHS Tapes To DVD

[dbuser2]

I'm a newbie to the forum and had been reading some old posts on VHS to DVD conversion before joing the forum. Hope I'm posting in the right place. I've seen where the best vhs players are the JVC 7900-9911 and the SR-V10U and using a TBC 1000. These posts were old ones and I'm trying to find a high quality VHS player to clean up the image and then a TBC to stabilize the signal. I cannot locate any of these particular players. Are there any other vcrs that have taken their place since the old posts and if so where can they be found? I live in the US and use the NTSC format.

[aedipuss]

about the only high quality vhs only machines left are d-vhs units. only a couple of them still around like the jvc HMDT100, if you can find them, they go for around a $1000.

there are a couple of jvc combo svhs/dvdr models that are ok like the JVC SR-MV50US.

[orsetto]

Unfortunately this is no longer a task where you can just decide "I want in", get suggestions for good hardware, and run out that day and buy it. None of the higher-end, DVD-transfer-optimized VHS decks are available new in stores anymore, neither is the once-large selection of DVD/HDD recorders that attached to them. You have to patiently monitor eBay and Craig's List for good second hand units, and sometimes if you're lucky new-old-stock items turn up at decent prices.

I started with upwards of 2500 tapes to transfer, that I've accumulated over 20 years. Over the last 3-4 years I've managed to get thru a little over half of the backlog. I've made some expensive mistakes along the way, so my contribution to this thread will be to advise what I find the most cost-effective setup in terms of balancing price, availability, performance, and least amount of futzing the details. One thing that took me WAY too long to learn is everyones tapes are different, so what is necessary for one person to make good transfers may not be needed for you at all, and vice-versa. The other thing I've learned the hard (expensive) way is that DVD recorders made a quantum leap in their ability to handle a VHS signal sometime late in 2005. A great deal of the excellent advice archived on this forum applies mainly to the pre-2005 DVD recorder models, which had all kinds of allergic reactions to VHS necessitating very expensive VHS decks and external processing hardware to get around. This is no longer the case for the vast majority of tapes and today's current DVD recorders.

I've discovered over time that the $exotic$ JVC (and similar) VHS decks recommended as "absolutely necessary" for a good DVD transfer are actually not so important and I often get a nicer recording from a "lowly" $20 used consumer grade VHS deck. So right off the bat, I advise NOT running out to blow $300 or so for a JVC or Mitsubishi SVHS or DVHS with all the bells and whistles. First, go out and get a modern DVD recorder that can handle the signal from any ordinary VCR you may already have. Personally I think its much easier to use a DVD recorder that has a built-in hard drive: many tapes need some editing, or different segments of the same tape may need to be played on a different VHS deck, transferring to a hard drive first makes compiling the final DVD much easier. Unfortunately the DVD/HDD recorder concept was a huge failure in the USA and they have all been pulled from stores except for the new Phillips 3576. This is a very good machine, widely documented here on VideoHelp and also over at AVS Forum. It comes with built-in ATSC tuner and 160GB hard drive, which can store quite a bit of VHS on it. Alternately, you can pick up a second hand Pioneer 540, 640, 450, 550 or 650 (these were made within the last two years and are excellent) or the new Pioneer 460, 560 or 660 (these are current but only available in Canada or via online dealers).

My experience with these has been great and they have no issues to speak of recording VHS tapes unless the tapes are extremely off-spec or weird. There are those who would argue for Panasonic to be added to the shortlist, I have not had enough experience with them to comment but they do tend to fetch very high prices used because of their TiVO-like timer programming: depends on your budget. Older Toshibas and JVCs were once highly recommended as having the best image quality around, I bought into that advice big-time and ended up regretting it and selling them all off. They WERE great units, but they had a great deal of difficulty with my VHS sources and made the process much harder and more expensive. When I tested Pioneer (and later Phillips) I was astonished at how much more "compatible" they were with my tapes: they trade off a slight bit of ultimate image quality in order to be much less "picky", for me the compromise was a godsend and I switched hardware completely. In the USA the easiest DVD/HDD recorder to acquire is the the Phillips 3576, it is often available under $300 at major retailers who offer a 30-day refund policy on it. I suggest you start there first to get your feet wet, at least you can return it easily if you decide to try something else.

The VCR part of the equation is much trickier, there isn't even one good new model available- its a dead product category, so used is the only way to go. It is often recommended to get a high-end JVC SVHS with TBC/DNR circuits, or similar JVC and Mitsubishi DVHS models with the same feature. The problem with these is they're hard to come by in really good condition and they aren't cheap when you do find them, you can easily pay $300-400 for one. Ditto the Panasonic AG-1980, which is also a popular transfer deck. These machines offer some valuable tape processing options, but they come at a cost in $ and a cost in perceived image quality. Their TBC/DNR filters do wonders with things like color noise and snow, the drawback is the resulting "cleaned" signal looks kind of cartoon-y and fake, especially on a large screen. Very often I double back and try the same tape in my midrange and "cheap" VCRs, and find that I prefer the "noisier" but more realistic-looking result from my plain-jane Panasonic AG-2560 (often available used for under $50). This gets to be a very tedious trial-and-error process with some tapes, so be aware the more options you give yourself the more time the project will take. The JVC, Mitsubishi and Panasonic TBC/DNR decks cannot simply have their fancy circuits switched off to make them behave like "ordinary" VHS decks: they are designed to use those circuits, when you turn them off they present yet another "look" which is not the same look as a standard consumer VCR. This stuff gets more complicated the more you dig into it.

Start with a Phillips 3576 (or a Pioneer 460 if you live in Canada) and a good ordinary VHS deck. If you notice a large number of your tapes have unacceptable color streaking or noise, then you might look into trying a JVC-Mitsubishi-Panasonic TBC/DNR deck. These help greatly in some cases, in others they just make things look weird. External TBCs are no longer necessary 90% of the time if you are using a DVD recorder made in the last 2-3 years, they are needed more for people dubbing VHS to a computer capture card and for the earlier DVD recorders. They were also useful to clean Macrovision from any commercial VHS tapes that were to be transferred, but for a current DVD recorder this can be accomplished with a $50-100 "black box", a $500 DataVision TBC-1000 is overkill.

Of course there are many many other opinions you will see here regarding this VHS transfer task, a lot of them probably would disagree with some of my points because their own experience would be different, as might yours. I am not saying my suggestions are the "best", not by a long shot. I am simply offering up what I've learned as I've drudged thru this process with my own tapes. Whatever hardware you decide to start with, my basic advice is "simpler is better" for as long as you can hold out. Don't add fancy hardware until you yourself perceive a need for it. And if you only have 20 or 30 tapes, you can certainly try a combo DVD/VHS deck first, although the current models are not nearly as good as the older ones and way overpriced in stores.

Good Luck!

[dbuser2]

I don't know if my last reply went through. It said done with nothing on the screen. Anyway, I did a little research on the philips 3575. Could not find the exact specs on the 3576. It appears the 3575 has RCA phono input jacks for audio and video. I take it, I can input video and audio from my old vcr into the Phillips to the hard disk and then burn it to the DVD for converting my old vhs tapes. Is that correct? The format looks to be mpeg2? What kind of software is there that I can edit this with menus? I'm wondering if this is the best way to go for conversion as compared to me importing raw video into my computer from my vcr, then editing, then compressing and then burning.

[thecoalman]

Orsetto has some good advice but I will comment on one thing. Although the high end VCR's may not be necessary in some cases they can work wonders If your tapes are in really bad shape then it might be advisable to try one.

They were also useful to clean Macrovision from any commercial VHS tapes that were to be transferred, but for a current DVD recorder this can be accomplished with a $50-100 "black box", a $500 DataVision TBC-1000 is overkill.

As far as the TBC all those boxes do is "notch" out the part of the signal where the MV resides. If all your having issue with is MV then it might be the way to go however a TBC does much more than simply notch the MV signal out, actually thats just a side benefit. There's more here on what a TBC does:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic246006.html#1115672

As for what to buy your choices are limited, scour ebay and craiglslsit as suggested but you're still going to pay and arm and leg for good JVC deck. I've seen them used more than what I paid brand new. I have a 9911 here with about 20 hours on it I'll sell for one miiiillllion dollars.

Not sure if any of these fit your needs but there are few DVHS and combo decks listed: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&ci=1820&sb=ps&sq=...t=Submit+Query

Some are listed as refurbished but that company is outstanding and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one myself from them if I needed it.

I have a rticle here that should answer ost of the basic questions you may have such as the differenrence between MPEG capture and DV-AVI

http://www.nepadigital.com/articles/analog-capture.php

[dbuser2]

Thanks to "thecoalman" on the TBC info and especially on the differences betwen the MPEG and DV-AVI formats. That could account for why I had some editing problems. I'm a novice to Linux and currently using Kino and DVStyler with all the related dependencies. Except for the attachments you gave, I haven't seen too many Windows based editing software. I once had a strong electronics background back in the days of component repair. 20 years to be exact. I don't know how long Macrovision has been around but somewhere around the late 80s to the mid 90s I use to defeat the method used at that time by messing with the video AGC pot on the VCR I believe of the receiving VCR and could record the tapes OK. You turn it counter clockwise. Just remember where it was before you turn it. At sometime after the mid 90s the AGC circuits were absorbed more into the rest of the elctronics. I still have some of my old repair books around. I'm trying to locate my old cable tv descrambler I built that went between my tv and cable box. It has some video processing circuits in it for sync, contrast and color filtering. This may help to eliminate any time correction problems. A first cheap step to take before investing too much money. Probably any descrambler might work as that is how the cable tv companies use to scramble the signal by skewing or time delaying the sync pluse and with video inversion. Thanks to Orsetto as well for his advice.

[PuzZLeR]

Awesome thread, awesome advice. BTW - Orsetto, I really appreciate the information and detail in your posts. Thanks!

Not sure if I could ask here, but I am curious if I could make improvements in my workflow. Most of my source tapes captured are trashed, but I still have some family stuff I left for last.

I've been using a Pioneer 520 DVR machine doing my capturing to MPEG-2 from a VCR attached to it. So far my results have been quite good - I'm satisfied. I'm not concerned with the absolute best quality method. I do agree with Orsetto's suggestions of simplicity/consistency in the work flow. Trust me, you need to if you have hundreds of tapes, even if it is indeed a slight hit on average quality.

Two questions:

1) Not looking for "the best", but at a consumer level, is this method "almost as good" as what would be "the best" or "far from it"? Should I really invest in a card if it's MUCH better? (Talking video quality.)

2) I notice that capturing VHS creates a "tracking fuzz" at the bottom of the content. It's real easy to crop it off with editing software on your PC but that would involve re-encoding. Now MPEG-2/MPEG-4 encoders for the final product are excellent of late, particularly with VBR or quantizer modes, and the quality loss is minimal at best, but is there a better method that people are using to deal with this?

Thank you for any answers.

BTW - Dbuser2, just my opinion from experience here. If using a DVR I find that it's much, much easier migrating your content to the PC for final processing - better edits (more accurate) with much quicker software (too time consuming on the point and click arrow remotes on a DVR) and much nicer flexible authoring. And you can re-encode on a PC if you need to. Just use the DVR for capturing, and the edits for "cutting some fat", then use RW media to transfer the content to your PC for the final production. (What I'm suggesting is don't waste burning time sending 2 hours of content DVR -> RW -> PC when you know in advance that you will only keep 30 minutes of it. Just do a rough "draft" and clean it up on your PC.)

Just my 99 cents...

[orsetto]

Oh, boy- there I went again with my typical l-o-n-g reply before I asked you for more specifics. Sorry, dbuser2- your original post sort of implied you were a total newbie who would probably be using a DVD recorder, and my advice was based on that hardware and workflow. Your followup posts indicate you do have some expeience at this and have definite plans to use a PC in your workflow- that changes my advice on some significant points.

thecoalman added some excellent info, as did PuzZLer, regarding your specific interests. Going direct to a PC instead of to a DVD recorder would allow capturing in "better-quality" AVI format for archival purposes, you can then transcode those files into MPEG2-compliant DVDs. Or, you could capture directly to MPEG2 and save a conversion step. In either case, you may well need an external TBC after all: PC capture is far more sensitive to timing errors and lipsync issues than current DVD recorders, which seem able to get a better "lock" on VHS without need of a TBC. Of course, as PuzZLer suggested, you could use a DVD recorder for quick and easy capture to MPEG2, and import the DVDs into your PC authoring software. Given the price of a brand new Phillips 3576 is about half that of a DataVideo TBC-1000 external TBC, it could be very cost-effective and convenient if you are not interested in uncompressed AVI capture. (BTW the Phillips 3576 is identical to the earlier 3575, except it has a black cabinet instead of silver and a slightly updated version of the same ATSC tuner.)

My experience with external TBCs has been spotty. Older second hand "pro" units are often so worn out they cause more image problems than they solve. New product like the DataVideo TBC-1000 have become ridiculously overpriced at around $500, they were $295 two years ago. The DataVideo units I've used have been very well built but they do soften the image noticeably, therefore should only be in your hardware chain for tapes that absolutely need a TBC to restore lipsync or other severe problems. If capturing to a PC, many add-on TBC cards are available in several price ranges. For simple MacroVision problems, the cheap $50-100 "notch filters" like the Sima CT2 knockoffs will often output a sharper signal than a TBC, thats a matter of taste so you may want to experiment.

Note the expensive VCRs with "TBC" built in do NOT operate the same way as an external TBC: these VCRs primarily clean up color and luminance noise and help with some (but not all) picture tearing issues. They tend to make things look very weird when processing 2nd or 3rd generation tapes, and can add non-existent "dropouts" to some tapes, so you will likely find yourself switching their TBC/DNR function off half the time, or using more basic VCRs. Popular, more-reliable high-end VCRs would be the Panasonic AG-1980 SVHS, and the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U and JVC SR-VD400U DVHS units. Other earlier JVC SVHS units can be riskier: if you get one in poor condition it can be tricky and pricey to repair. The JVC-9911 and earlier models can be a good bet if you buy from a local seller who'll let you try before buying, but I wouldn't buy one sight unseen from eBay. The earlier Panasonic AG-1970 is a super-rugged vcr with a decent TBC but its color and luminance noise reduction is below-par compared to other alternatives. It is, however, a good compromise choice because it is very inexpensive used and it is the only "high-end" vcr that will revert to a completely normal vcr output signal if you switch off its TBC and DNR. All the other fancy decks retain some form of picture weirdness even when you turn their TBC/DNR off, and in fact the later Panasonic AG-1980 can not turn off its noise reduction at all, only minimize its action. So its a VERY good idea to always keep a plain-jane, good-quality "normal" vcr on hand as a secondary playback option.

[davideck]

you may well need an external TBC after all: PC capture is far more sensitive to timing errors and lipsync issues than current DVD recorders, which seem able to get a better "lock" on VHS without need of a TBC.

That's because current DVD Recorders have internal TBC/Frame Synchronizers that are functionally equivalent to the DataVideo TBCs with one exception; they do not provide vertical blanking (i.e. macrovision removal). Adding an external TBC/Frame Synchronizer ahead of a DVD Recorder is redundant unless it happens to provide some type of improvement on problematic tapes because of its particular TBC performance profile. Otherwise, it serves no purpose other than to provide MV removal (or prevent false MV detection) and perhaps a set of proc amp controls.

The TBC/Frame Synchronizer internal to my Toshiba HDD/DVD Recorder noticeably outperforms the timebase correction capability of the DataVideo TBCs and does so without the softening that you have mentioned. Adding a DataVideo TBC ahead of the Toshiba actually makes things worse. For these reasons, I use the Toshiba as my external TBC/Frame Synchronizer instead of the DataVideo even when capturing to the PC, which I rarely do anymore. My Panasonic AG-1970 into the Toshiba DVD Recorder makes excellent DVDs.

[lordsmurf]

I'm a newbie to the forum and had been reading some old posts on VHS to DVD conversion before joing the forum. Hope I'm posting in the right place. I've seen where the best vhs players are the JVC 7900-9911 and the SR-V10U and using a TBC 1000. These posts were old ones and I'm trying to find a high quality VHS player to clean up the image and then a TBC to stabilize the signal. I cannot locate any of these particular players. Are there any other vcrs that have taken their place since the old posts and if so where can they be found? I live in the US and use the NTSC format.

Nothing has changed. The equipment is going to be found used now, rather than new (some of it was not new a few years ago anyway, was used then too).

A few folks here have already given some good replies to you.

[thecoalman]

....I haven't seen too many Windows based editing software.

There's hundreds of them. If you're looking for something simple try Ulead Video Studio. If you're going to do MPEG capture you will need something like VS, VS doesn't reencode MPEG. I don't know if there is Linux equivalent and there are other windows based apps that will not reencode.

[PuzZLeR]

My understanding is that there seriously is a tradeoff here.

Obviously capturing all that VHS content to digital is a very demanding and ambitious task and won't get any easier since the demand has reached diminishing returns for improved technology on a passé format. You have to make do with what's available and make a decision: simplify it immensely with less quality or complicate it immensely for that extra quality. Your choice.

PC capture is far more sensitive to timing errors and lipsync issues than current DVD recorders, which seem able to get a better "lock" on VHS without need of a TBC. Of course, as PuzZLer suggested, you could use a DVD recorder for quick and easy capture to MPEG2, and import the DVDs into your PC authoring software.

Disregarding price for the moment, DVR capture is by far the easiest, and most hassle-free method I've ever used. To point out, I have had ZERO problems doing it this way over the years instead of the sync issues, dropped frames, etc. associated with the cards (as well as the necessary HDD space to allocate if using uncompressed AVI). And the finished product is a breeze on the PC with all the latest software. (I agree with thecoalman on selection.) However, if you want the challenge of "the best" in terms of quality, then that is when you should consider a good PC card.

Going direct to a PC instead of to a DVD recorder would allow capturing in "better-quality" AVI format for archival purposes, you can then transcode those files into MPEG2-compliant DVDs. Or, you could capture directly to MPEG2 and save a conversion step.

In theory you're correct about saving that conversion step to MPEG-2. Unfortunately, in practice, if you're picky like me, you will want to get rid of that "tracking fuzz" and other VHS artifacts associated with the capture, and that would need a re-encoding to clear (and another conversion step). I'm not one that needs the absolute best quality, but my pickiness is affected by this enough to re-encode. Life's not perfect.

[robjv1]

I too have noticed the DataVideo TBC has reached $500 -- I bought mine a few years ago at the $299 price point. In it's defense though -- in my experience it has helped my captures enourmously and rarely have I found it to be a hindrance to making a good capture.

My typical setup is as follows -- JVC SRV101US VCR -> DataVideo TBC -> Sign Video Proc Amp -> Sign Video Detailer -> JVC DRM100 DVD recorder.

I have found that with most tapes (some commercial, some recordered on a circa 1981 portable GE VHS recorder which was plugged into a not so portable Panasonic camera) that when I take the Datavideo out of the chain, I see an increased number of visual disturbances. One particular tape had a lot of problems with image tearing that I couldn't seem to fix with (or without) various combinations of the JVC filters. Adding the Datavideo TBC made it rock solid. I also find it helps a lot with tapes that roll, which is a big problem with the home movies recorded on the GE VHS recorder. Perhaps this is a fluke and the TBC shouldn't improve the signal in this way, which I would be willing to admit because I don't understand the intricate nature of the video signal, but I do know that more often then with a VHS source I add it to my chain and find better results with then without.

As far as the image softening -- are there any threads that give evidence to this? I do see why this would be a possibility, though I can't say I've ever really seen it with my own eyes, and I have some ability to counter it with my detailer. I would like to hear more about this.

[thecoalman]

Disregarding price for the moment, DVR capture is by far the easiest, and most hassle-free method I've ever used. To point out, I have had ZERO problems doing it this way over the years instead of the sync issues, dropped frames, etc. associated with the cards

Those issues are generally associated with the cheap cards older cards where the audio is passed off to the CPU for processing and early MPEG hardware encoders. That's not the case with hardware encoders like the ADVC or Hauppage cards. One of the things heavily commented about for the ADVC for example is that it doesn't have those issues. I haven't seen any problems posted like that for the Hauppage cards either.

[davideck]

My typical setup is as follows -- JVC SRV101US VCR -> DataVideo TBC -> Sign Video Proc Amp -> Sign Video Detailer -> JVC DRM100 DVD recorder.

I have found that with most tapes (some commercial, some recordered on a circa 1981 portable GE VHS recorder which was plugged into a not so portable Panasonic camera) that when I take the Datavideo out of the chain, I see an increased number of visual disturbances. One particular tape had a lot of problems with image tearing that I couldn't seem to fix with (or without) various combinations of the JVC filters. Adding the Datavideo TBC made it rock solid. I also find it helps a lot with tapes that roll, which is a big problem with the home movies recorded on the GE VHS recorder. Perhaps this is a fluke and the TBC shouldn't improve the signal in this way, which I would be willing to admit because I don't understand the intricate nature of the video signal, but I do know that more often then with a VHS source I add it to my chain and find better results with then without.

That makes perfect sense.

The TBC/Frame Synchronizer in the JVC DRM100 DVD recorder is particularly sensitive to horizontal jitter. The input response time is so slow that in some cases, the jitter is exacerbated. This sounds to me like what you're seeing. I have seen it on some of my tapes.

The DataVideo TBC noticeably outperforms the H jitter correction capability of the TBC/Frame Synchronizer in the JVC, so it makes sense that it would help in the cases you mention.

Tapes from a Portable VHS Recorder would be quite likely to have these types of timebase instabilities.

You should try a Toshiba...

[robjv1]

Would I see this as it's recording though? These problems are certainly apparent during the actual recording process, not just on the final DVD.

I will see if I can find any Toshiba's. I wish this stuff was ubiquitous at this point, as I have a little money to throw at this project and it would be nice to see what kinds of results I could get out of using different equipment. How is the D-R400 model? I'm in the US and use NTSC.

All in all though -- I am happy with my setup. There are certainly some problem tapes though that I will have to have someone look at. I think my father paid about $800 in 1981 or so for the camera/vcr combination he has and the tapes made from it are generally hard to figure out, many problems presented. I would like to give some of these another crack in a different machine, although I think I will need a different VCR to try it out. I have the original VCR but they don't play them any better then the Sony or two JVCs I have.

[victoriabears]

In this hobby we all can make it too complicated, always start with simple so jvc vcr with auto as picture mode and through to jvc 100 dvd recorder, then if required, and only if, insert ther stuff

[davideck]

Would I see this as it's recording though? These problems are certainly apparent during the actual recording process, not just on the final DVD.

You would see it at the video output of the DVD Recorder.
Can you display the input directly to a monitor? Does the input look better?

Does the TBC in the JVC SRV101US VCR provide any improvement?

[PuzZLeR]

Regarding dropped frames, sync issues:

One of the things heavily commented about for the ADVC for example is that it doesn't have those issues. I haven't seen any problems posted like that for the Hauppage cards either.

Thanks for your response. I'm really interested in looking into this. (It can't hurt to have another option right? )

I've noticed several different model numbers of these. I've had bad luck in the past selecting on my own. Can you or anyone recommend a particular model or product among these brands? Thanks again.

[davideck]

Regarding dropped frames, sync issues:

One of the things heavily commented about for the ADVC for example is that it doesn't have those issues. I haven't seen any problems posted like that for the Hauppage cards either.

Thanks for your response. I'm really interested in looking into this. (It can't hurt to have another option right? )

I needed an external TBC/Frame Synchronizer ahead of my Hauppage PVR-250 to avoid audio/video sync issues. I was capturing camcorder tapes with 1 or 2 second record gaps in between scenes. This may represent a worst case, but by the end of the capture the audio had drifted with respect to the image. DVD Recorders have TBC/Frame Synchronizers built in to avoid this.

[orsetto]

The TBC/Frame Synchronizer in the JVC DRM100 DVD recorder is particularly sensitive to horizontal jitter. The input response time is so slow that in some cases, the jitter is exacerbated. This sounds to me like what you're seeing. I have seen it on some of my tapes.

The DataVideo TBC noticeably outperforms the H jitter correction capability of the TBC/Frame Synchronizer in the JVC, so it makes sense that it would help in the cases you mention.

Tapes from a Portable VHS Recorder would be quite likely to have these types of timebase instabilities.

You should try a Toshiba...

This is an example of what I meant by my earlier posts, advising the "fancy" VCRs will often fix one problem while introducing another. It is an unfortunate fact that there is no one, single "high-end" vcr that can cover all the bases, each introduces its own positives and negatives. The JVC and Mitsubishi units offer the ultimate in color noise reduction but go off the rails when presented with a severe tear or jitter, generally making it worse. The Panasonic units handle tears and jitter much better but are not quite as good at visible noise reduction. Toss a coin.

robjv1, I suppose LordSmurf will crucify me for saying this, but my experience dubbing sub-optimal VHS to my JVC DRM100 and DRMV5 recorders was very disappointing: they are immensely more sensitive to VHS crap signals like jitter and otherwise-invisible tearing than many newer machines of other makes. They are astoundingly good for off-air, cable and DV camera recordings but they are a bear with sub-par VHS. I have been thru 3 DRM100s and 11 DRMV5 JVCs since 2005, all exhibit this sensitivity with *my* VHS tapes. In nearly every case, troublesome tapes that require a DataVision TBC *and* a TBC/DNR high end VCR to get a usable DVD from my JVC will transfer straight from an ordinary VCR into my Pioneer or Phillips recorders with no fuss: no high-end VCR, no extra TBC needed. (Emphasis on *my* tapes: LordSmurf apparently has had fantastically better luck than I've had, but then he is also far more knowledgable on how to squeeze the best performance from a JVC). To make a short story longer, I recently sold off all but two of my JVCs because I had pretty much stopped using them. And no, I'm not rich : I got a fire-sale price on a big lot of JVCs a couple years ago, paid less than $40 apiece, which is about what I got back when I resold 'em.

I would not necessarily jump thru hoops to look for a used Toshiba DVD recorder, either: their best units date back three years, people ask small fortunes for them, and many second-hand units have buggy failing burners. At this point in time JVC and Toshiba are best limited to those who already own them and can manage their quirks, there are more practical alternatives for new hobbyists. A current or recent Pioneer, Phillips or Panasonic will lock onto VHS as solidly as a vintage Toshiba and can be acquired new or mint via online sources. The Phillips can be bought directly from stores in the USA, Pioneer and Panasonic have to be imported from Canadian sellers. Of course if you *live* in Canada you can just walk into any electronics store and pick up all three (although Panasonic recently pulled out of North America altogether so Canadian new-in-box Pannys are getting scarce). Anyone struggling daily with VHS transfers to a JVC needs to at least *try* another brand of DVD recorder: it won't give you the distinctive JVC encoding quality, but it should be a hell of a lot easier to get consistent stable VHS results with. If you have a huge amount of tapes to convert, you'll want maximum flexibility, and this comes at a cost: two to three VCR options and quite possibly two DVD recorder options (one if you're new to the whole thing and haven't developed a preference, two if your "prized" older unit is becoming more trouble than its worth).

Personally I'm about ready to throw in the towel: I feel like an idiot spending my every spare hour transferring tapes I haven't even watched since 1987. It is much easier if you accept small quality compromises in exchange for consistent and predictable results: not every tape in your collection needs to be a pristine DVD transfer. If you haven't watched it on VHS in years, you probably will never watch the DVD either: make a "good enough" library DVD and move on. Don't get sidetracked into a quest for the nth degree of perfection, unless the tape is priceless family camcorder footage, and NEVER discard original camcorder tapes: the second you trash them you'll decide your "perfect" DVD copies could have been better (a common lament here on VideoHelp).

[thecoalman]

I've noticed several different model numbers of these. I've had bad luck in the past selecting on my own.

Canopus makes a few models but the basic one is the 110, the next ones up th line add some noise filters and other add-ons. There's a cheaper model from another manufacturer called the Pyro that repotedly works just as well. You can even try using a DV cam with pass through.

Canopus: https://www.videohelp.com/capturecards/canopus-advc-110/495

Pyro: https://www.videohelp.com/capturecards/adstech-pyro-a-v-link/258

The link for the 110 is the newer model, the older model is the 100 and is the highest rated capture device here at videohelp. The differences between the two is minimal.

One of the resons these devices work so well is they are dedicated. The encoding of audio and video is done by the device and transferred via firewire as DV to your computer.

[Marvingj]

good replies

[lordsmurf]

This thread is a perfect example of why I have several different VCRs, DVD recorders, capture cards, software, etc. No one item does it all. Find a solution that does most of it, and then pay somebody else to deal with your headache tapes. In the long run, it's easier and cheaper. Fight off that "I must do it myself" urge. You'll thank yourself later.

[victoriabears]

The es10 is very good as a pass thru filter, i am amazed at how good it is

[davideck]

A digital Camcorder with analog passthrough to 1394 can also provide excellent TBC performance. The JVC GR-DVL915 is particularly good at eliminating jitter, even outperforming the internal TBC in the JVC VCRs.

[PuzZLeR]

@davideck and the coalman: I am looking into this right now. I do consider your opinions valid relating to their reliability and simplicity - both important to me even above "best" quality. Thank you.

Personally I'm about ready to throw in the towel: I feel like an idiot spending my every spare hour transferring tapes I haven't even watched since 1987. It is much easier if you accept small quality compromises in exchange for consistent and predictable results: not every tape in your collection needs to be a pristine DVD transfer. If you haven't watched it on VHS in years, you probably will never watch the DVD either: make a "good enough" library DVD and move on. Don't get sidetracked into a quest for the nth degree of perfection, unless the tape is priceless family camcorder footage, and NEVER discard original camcorder tapes: the second you trash them you'll decide your "perfect" DVD copies could have been better (a common lament here on VideoHelp).

I understand your pain all too well, even with my "measly" 300 or so tapes and still not complete. My advice too is keep it simple and stupid for such a demanding project - and a sacrifice of a bit of quality to achieve this in the easiest way possible is more than worth it. Life is too important to kill off trying to make a not-so-important 80s ragged VHS tape look pristine. Who cares?

I will comment however on the fact that some of those that I haven't watched since 1987 or 1985 or whatever have had new life breathed into them in digital format - even if the quality wasn't the best, I still enjoyed them again. Probably the reason why I didn't watch them all these years previous was due to the fact that they were in some box somewhere, in a clunky VHS tape that you needed to cue in your machine that was breaking down anyway. Digital gives new life.

But I agree somewhat. Along the way there were a few tapes I looked at and said, "Do I really want to archive this crap?" Straight to the trashcan with that and no regrets.

And what I'd add to newcomers who may be looking for the best productions is doing this: Do the less important ones first. This way you will make any mistakes in your learning curve on less crucial material and will care lots less if you just so happened to throw away the source. Leaving the important stuff like family or rarities last is like leaving it for the expert - the expert YOU become after a while, which is also why I'm looking for even better options for my final "good stuff" to finally end this project forever.

But if you're down to 5 or so of your most treasured tapes - it may be worthy for a professional service to wrap it up for you (as LordSmurf pointed out for headache tapes).

[SingSing]

VHS tape ? what's that ?

Are they the same as 8-track tape ?

[PuzZLeR]

VHS tape ? what's that ?

Are they the same as 8-track tape ?

That's exactly what I meant in an earlier post. This format is finished and any technology associated with it will not get any better - in fact more rare and more expensive as time goes by. So the best way to digitize them is with what we have now, or had just recently, and there will never be a better method with conventional or consumer methods. We are in the most optimal period on the timeline to do this now that we've seen the best.

[victoriabears]

I have to disagree about it will not get any better, it is possible that somewhere along the line a machine will be invented to convert VHS to HD, that would create better results, I realise to the purist that is a load of crap but to the amateur wathcer, may be?

I hate to mention this but I put my vcr collection , and it numbers 8 models !, including jvc 9911J, ag 1980 and sharp/toshibs good basic 4 head models, through a avt 8710 then through Panasonic es10 to the JVC M100S dvd recorder and the result was almost 100% identical from every machine, the vhs tape I used was a SP Ntsc good recording.