Converting VHS tapes for the ignoramus

[Fogg]

Hey, guys. Sorry for posting a new topic on this, but I still don't understand all the details on this procedure. I'm totally ignorant on how to do any of this kind of stuff, so please bear with me.

I have tons of VHS tapes. Most of them are stuff I taped off of TV myself, but some are commercial movies. What I'd like to do is upload them to my computer and make them into DVDs. My big thing is that I do not want any loss in quality from the way they already look as VHS tapes. Basically, I'd like to be able to pop these new DVDs into my regular DVD player, watch them on my CRT TV and not see (or hear) any difference between them and the original videotapes--no picture "softness" or smudgy motions or other signs of compression. I'd also like to avoid any desynching between the sound and visuals.

I've done a little bit of reading on this topic, and I think I have a sort of rough idea on the equipment I need. Someone mentioned in another thread about the importance of having a Video Stabilizer box. I already bookmarked one and plan on ordering it. (http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/)

I guess you hook the VCR directly into the stabilizer, and then from there you hook things into the computer, right? (Incidentally, I understand that the stabilizer enables one to copy commercial VHS tapes. What I'm not clear on is if it helps at all maintaining quality with just regular home VHS tapes.)

Anyway, it's what happens after this where I get confused. I've read that one method is to hook things up to the comptuer through a capture card that goes into the USB port. I've looked at a couple cards on Amazon and I don't know which one to get. (Can anyone recommend any specific brands, keeping in mind that I'd like to retain as much of the original picture quality as possible?) Keep in mind I don't really plan on doing any fancy editing--just simple cuts and pastes.

I've read some arguments about whether one should use a hardware encoder versus a software encoder for doing a project such as this. Of course, I have no idea what either of those terms mean. Is that something I should concern myself with? Are the capture cards I saw at Amazon an example of a hardware encoder? Considering what my goals are for my project, can anyone recommend one type over the other? Thanks.

[filmboss80]

Have you considered simply using a standalone, set-top DVD recorder? If you directly feed your VHS videos from VCR to DVD recorder, you skip a lot of steps in capturing to PC harddrive, authoring to DVD, then burning to disc. If you want to avoid confusion, the standalone DVD recorder may be the best solution for you.

As for commercial videos with macrovision or other copy protection, you are right to assess that will need to put a video stabilizer between the vcr and recording device.

[Fogg]

Thanks for the response. It's not so much that I want to avoid confusion. I just want to ensure that my resulting DVDs to look a close to the original VHS's as possible (certainly no worse), and I'm totally green on how to go about this all. I mean, yeah, I'm confused now, but I'm willing to get "un" confused. If someone could just plain spell-out (in the simplest language possible) what steps I need to take, or what specific capturing device I should get, that would probably be most helpful.

I'm not sure about a separate DVD recorder. (Although, again, I don't know much about them.) Even though I don't care about doing fancy editing or adding "effects" to the videos, I sort of did want a little flexibility in cutting sections, or even saving selected portions to my hard drive. I worry that a standalone DVD recorder would make that difficult.

[t0nee1]

I use the Hauppauge 150 PVR capture card ,which ignores most MV that I've thrown at it..It's not the best quality but it captures and outputs to .MPG, which is easily editable..I use it mainly for capturing some old VHS family videos and such..

[SmokieStover]

If you want to convert via a PC, use a hardware encoding TV Tuner Card and capture straight to mpg2. If you have a ton of tapes you'll never find the time to encode them from DV AVI to mpg2.....you might get a bit better quality this way, but more likely, you will spend an enormous amount of time (and money) experimenting with player hardware and software filtering and just give up.

And because you will also be converting MV corrupted commercials tapes, I recommend a Hauppauge PVR card. I use the PVR 250 and have never found a MV corrupted tape that it could not handle. My DVD conversions are so close to the original tape (actually a bit better regarding video noise) that you would never notice the difference unless looking for it. Slightly under 2 hours is all that will fit on one DVD at the DVD Long Play setting.........90 minutes for the DVD Standard Play setting. The video capture quality (Video and audio bitrates) are adjustable, but 2 hours 10 minutes per DVD is as low as I go. This means most movie tapes are captured at DVD Standard Play and then split to 2 DVD's.

I would also recommend buying a good low end (without TBC and DNR) JVC S-VHS VCR. The Hauppauge PVR 250 does a better job via the S-Video input.

Beware of the video stabilizer boxes.....very few, if any of them, work with PC TV Tuner Cards.

Regarding software for use with your captured mpgs, all you need is TMPG DVD Author 2.0 or higher. Video ReDo TV Suite is an alternative......I use their most excellent mpg editor (Video ReDo Plus), but haven't tried the TV Suite because I do not need it.

[hech54]

I've looked at a couple cards on Amazon and I don't know which one to get. (Can anyone recommend any specific brands, keeping in mind that I'd like to retain as much of the original picture quality as possible?) Keep in mind I don't really plan on doing any fancy editing--just simple cuts and pastes.

Hauppauge PVR-150
Hauppauge PVR-250
Hauppauge PVR-350
All capture to DVD compliant MPEG-2

I'd forget about the factory made VHS tapes and buy the DVD used on Ebay....unless
of course it has never been released to DVD.

Hauppauge PVR cards can also be found on Ebay. I bought mine from Ebay and it works
flawlessly....I have a recording scheduled in about two hours as a matter of fact. Make sure you
get the correct card (NTSC or PAL).

[olyteddy]

Another vote for Hauppauge. My USB2 PVR has been pretty good going on three years now. But I've gotta say, a standalone is easier, especially one wit a Hard Disk too.

[Fogg]

Wow. Tons of info. Thanks for the quick responses, everyone.

...Slightly under 2 hours is all that will fit on one DVD at the DVD Long Play setting.........90 minutes for the DVD Standard Play setting. The video capture quality (Video and audio bitrates) are adjustable, but 2 hours 10 minutes per DVD is as low as I go. This means most movie tapes are captured at DVD Standard Play and then split to 2 DVD's...

Thanks for the awesomely thorough response, Smokie. I'm going to follow your advice to the letter. I just have one question. When you say that you only fit about 2 hours of video on the finished DVD, are you talking about just regular DVDs with 4.7 GB storage space? The reason I ask is because I kind of hoped I'd be able to fit more than just a couple hours on each DVD and my laptop is (supposedly) capable of burning dual-layered discs that have about 8.5 GB of storage space.

[Fogg]

Hey guys, I have one more question. I notice a lot of subtle inferences being made when people talk about these devices which directly covert the VHS stream into an mpeg-2 file. Basically, I'm getting the impression that the final visuals are going to be compressed somewhat.

Is that the case? Such talk gives me some trepidation.

I'll give you an example: At the beginning of this year, I bought a Tivo for the first time ever. And as soon as I hooked it up to the cable, I noticed right away that the picture coming in seemed to be "soft." Much of the texture in the visuals seemed to be gone. Frankly, it drove me nuts. After asking about this on the Tivo Community forums, people said that yes, if you hook a Tivo up to analog cable, it's pretty much a given that it's going to compress things, even on the Best Quality setting.

So I guess my question is, if I buy a Hauppauge and try to transfer a VHS to DVD, will I see the same level of "softening" as was exhibited when I hooked up my Tivo? (Please say it won't be as bad, please say it won't be as bad, please say...)

[SmokieStover]

I believe that TiVo records at less than full resolution, perhaps half D1 (352 X 480). This will remove some of the detail and thus soften the image. Digital video must be compressed or you could not fit much at all on a DVD.

MPG2 is the most common compression scheme for DVD Video. Using full D1 resolution (720 X 480), a video bitrate of 4.8 kbs and an audio bitrate of 384 kbs, you can only fit 1 hour and 58 minutes onto a single layer DVD. At this bitrate, VHS is about as good as it gets.

Drop the video bitrate below 4.5 kbs and you have noticable motion issues at full D1 using the PVR 250. Drop the resolution to half D1 (352 X 480) and you can also drop the Video bitrate down to say 3.8 kps and eliminate the motion issues, fit more on one DVD, but end up with a loss of resolution (softening the image). You may be happy with the trade off. I'm not!

Good single layer DVD blanks are cheap....good double layer ones are not! A good DVD authoring program is easy to learn and use......authoring and burning 2 DVDs is a simple chore.
But the choice is yours.....one double layer disk at 2 bucks a pop (on sale), or two single layers at 30 to 50 cents a piece.

[Fogg]

...MPG2 is the most common compression scheme for DVD Video. Using full D1 resolution (720 X 480), a video bitrate of 4.8 kbs and an audio bitrate of 384 kbs, you can only fit 1 hour and 58 minutes onto a single layer DVD. At this bitrate, VHS is about as good as it gets...

Thanks so much for your thorough response again, Smokie. You've set my mind at ease and cleared up some of my confusion to boot. I'll order my Hauppauge soon.

[pepegot1]

Use a DVD recorder and install a stabilizer to remove Macrovision protection, if necessary. I use a JVC DMR -10S recorder and it impoves the quality of the recorded DVD's.
You can get a good stabilizer here: http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer They are cheap.

[davideck]

When used with a VCR without TBC/DNR, some DVD Recorders (like the Philips 3575/6 and some Toshiba models) can improve VHS capture quality because of their internal TBC performance. They can also function as an external TBC for a capture device like the Hauppauge. I needed to use an external TBC with my PVR-250 in order to maintain A/V sync when capturing Home Videos that had blank record gap areas between scenes.

I also find it hard to beat the flexibility and convenience of the authoring capabilities on the Toshiba HDD/DVD Recorders. Not to mention their overall excellent PQ.

[Fogg]

Thanks for the additional input, guys.

When used with a VCR without TBC/DNR, some DVD Recorders (like the Philips 3575/6 and some Toshiba models) can improve VHS capture quality because of their internal TBC performance. They can also function as an external TBC for a capture device like the Hauppauge. I needed to use an external TBC with my PVR-250 in order to maintain A/V sync when capturing Home Videos that had blank record gap areas between scenes.

I also find it hard to beat the flexibility and convenience of the authoring capabilities on the Toshiba HDD/DVD Recorders. Not to mention their overall excellent PQ.

Davideck, could you clear something up for me?

You personally feel that video stabilizers can help the quality of the conversions? Right?

Also, I know that people usually use stabilizers to copy commercial VHS's. You seem to be implying that they can also help with some home video recordings as well. Is that true?

Lastly, I appreciate what you are saying about how DVD recorders can improve quality just on their built in Video Stabilizing capabilties. (I think that's what TBC refers to, anyway.) What about the separate box that I bookmarked on this page? (http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/) Assuming it works, would that also improve the final recordings in the same way the built-in feature of your DVD recorders do? (I guess I'm just trying to spend as little money as possible here.)

Thanks

[davideck]

"Video Stabilization" (i.e., copy protection removal) and Timebase Correction are different functions. I was referring to timebase correction. A third function to consider is Frame Synchronization, which is what helps to maintain A/V sync.

The Video Stabilizer you referenced may remove copy protection but will not provide timebase correction or frame synchronization. The DVD Recorders I mentioned provide timebase correction and frame synchronization but not copy protection removal.

The Hauppauge boards typically ignore copy protection but can still benefit from external TBC/Frame Synchronization.

[ranchhand]

VCR tapes are analog; you might find my experience helpful here:
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic358617.html

[Fogg]

"Video Stabilization" (i.e., copy protection removal) and Timebase Correction are different functions. I was referring to timebase correction. A third function to consider is Frame Synchronization, which is what helps to maintain A/V sync.

The Video Stabilizer you referenced may remove copy protection but will not provide timebase correction or frame synchronization. The DVD Recorders I mentioned provide timebase correction and frame synchronization but not copy protection removal.

The Hauppauge boards typically ignore copy protection but can still benefit from external TBC/Frame Synchronization.

Thanks. I did not know that these were three entirely different issues. I guess I still have a bit more research to do.