Converting VHS Tapes To DVD

[lordsmurf]

I don't think it can be said that all frame syncs have TBC, if machines that sync frame are lacking in certain processing features often associated with a TBC (chroma correction, etc). So with that in mind, how can the definitions you provided be repaired? This is the dilemma I ran into last time. I wrote down a solution (and indeed it can be found in an ancient forum post), but I've never re-visited it as properly as I want to (and shall do before this year is over).

[davideck]

IMO, it is more consistent to identify the existence of a "TBC" based on the functional footprint common to all TBCs rather than the features and performance of each particular TBC. A TBC with no features and poor performance leaves the same functional footprint as any other TBC.

Every Frame Synchronizer will digitize its video input with some characteristic TBC performance, embed any timing errors it does not correct into the video samples, and perform frame synchronization. A downstream TBC will not be able to see or correct these embedded errors, just as if a TBC had existed upstream. From the functional footprint standpoint, an upstream TBC does in fact exist.

Any Frame Synchronizer (or digitizing device for that matter) will look like a TBC to downstream devices, whether it makes things better, the same, or worse in terms of actual timebase correction.

[robjv1]

I am wondering as well if the TBC in the VCR was on during robjv1's problem captures...

The JVC TBC usually has trouble with the tapes in question. Usually I turn it off and turn on the video stabalizer, which in more cases then not fixes the problem. This is one thing I really like about the JVC -- you can try different combinations of the filters and usually get different effects. One thing I almost never leave on anymore though is the Video Calibration feature (which also morphs the default "NORM" setting to "AUTO") as I find it can exxacerbate jitter problems (maybe my imagination) and I don't like the picture on the AUTO setting as much. If I can get a tape to track properly and the video stable with the TBC on in the NOMR setting, then it's gold. For whatever reasons, my home movies don't tend to like the JVC TBC very much. However, I have tried these same tapes in my run of the mill Sony VHS recorder that I purchased brand new last year and have used maybe 5 times total since I got it, and don't find that it helps the problem.

I actually do have the original VCR almost all of my home movies were recorded on (the portable from 1980 which has an incredibly soft picture playback, how did we ever watch these things!?) and it doesn't seem to play the tapes any better either. I am sure the heads have been cleaned and the unit may have been serviced at one point, so perhaps the alignment has changed since the tapes were made. Or perhaps it was just a crappy VCR! I don't remember these home movies looking so rough, but then again, my standards for quality are a lot higher now with DVD and HD to compare to. I was perfectly happy with them before, so I suppose as long as I can get them "as good as I can" then that will be good enough. I just wish there was more equipment available to experiment with, because these ARE important tapes. Then again, maybe after I finish converting it all, I'll send it off to someone with more sophisticated equipment to see what they can do.

The JVC DRM100 makes a very distinctive-looking recording that some people love and some people hate (to be crude, some think it looks beautifully smooth while others think it looks like mush).

I thought that this was a very interesting statement. First off -- I don't want to get into the "my JVCs soften the picture too much" debate, as I know there is some disagreement on that. For most of my tapes, while I am dubbing them (and watching them on my input monitor) I am generally impressed with what the JVC VCR and it's TBC can do, but when I watch the resulting DVD made on the DRM100 I am often BLOWN away with how much further cleaned up it is. It does an amazing job at clearing up chroma noise and all kinds of other little annoyances that I see on my input monitor. I really noticed this with some heavily saturated animation, all of the noise that I could see in the red backdrop was completely gone in the resulting DVD, without any perceptible loss in resolution or sharpness. On some of my home movies though, it does a little too good of a job I find though, and I don't quite like the DVD as much as I liked how it looked on my input monitor, but it really depends on the source and the particulars of the issues of the video. I actually just picked up a Phillips 3575 to use as a living room DVR, so I think I might try it out on some of my problem tapes. I record everything home movie related in XP mode. I used to use a Liteon 5005, which had it's perks but overall the quality of the capture was just not to my liking.

Overall though, to me, a good JVC SVHS with the DNR along. a Datavideo TBC, with a DRM-100 recorder is a pretty lethal combination. It doesn't hurt to have some color correction hardware and a detailer either. I would love to start all over and do it more simply, but like many have said, sometimes you just need to do you best with what you have and let it go.... but I really need to get my hands on a Panasonic ES10 though, they still turn up on eBay?

[orsetto]

robjv1's experience with his JVC DRM100 mirrors my own: they seem to excel with some input material but can overcompensate with others. Since I have to work very fast now, I decided not to keep my JVCs because I couldn't spare the time to run spot checks on each transfer. If you currently have a vintage JVC dvd recorder and want to make your workflow more efficient, try to divide up your tapes into groups: very clear and sharp, sharp but noisy/grainy, animation, and soft. A JVC DVD recorder will generally improve VHS tapes that are very good to begin with, and even improve a tape that is sharp but noisy (it will lessen the noise and keep a lot of the sharpness), and can greatly improve flat animation. But I have definitely found a JVC recorder will overshoot if I input a "soft" looking original : it will make a muddy or soft VHS unacceptably muddier or softer on the DVD. Since I'm not quite sure what the "tipping point" is in the JVC encoder architecture, I chose to go with recorders that are more consistent in their response curve: they can't match a JVC at its best, but they don't overclean already-soft inputs either. Its a compromise I'm willing to live with in the interest of working faster on thousands of tapes.

robjv1 stated the perfect context for this: if you already own a JVC dvd recorder and have additional processing hardware handy, they are great machines and if you take the time to intervene and fine-tune "problem" tapes you can get excellent results. I do recommend obtaining a high-quality image enhancer if you have many "soft" tapes: a Vidicraft Detailer II or III can make a night and day difference on soft tapes transferred to a JVC recorder. Boost the detail a little bit higher than ideal, and when it encodes the JVC will smooth that down to a normal level while retaining additional details it would have otherwise lost. Turn off the TBC/DNR circuits on a high-end VCR if you are using one, they can defeat the purpose of the detailer and cause "too much of a good thing" when transferring "too-soft" VHS to a JVC dvd recorder. It can be hit or miss, those with enough time to experiment can achieve rewarding results with dismally soft tapes.

[robjv1]

Well said Orsetto. I have a mountain of videos that I've dubbed and many more to go. One thing I have more then a lot of people is the time to tinker with all of it. I don't have a very efficient workflow though. For the most important stuff I think it's crucial that I be there the whole time to make sure that the dubs come out the way I want them to. Especially since a lot of my footage has been discovered on unlabeled tapes, or even on the end or beginning of tapes, in the middle of movies, etc. A lot of times the tracking needs to be adjusted in between each segment, because for some reason the next segment will introduce jitter or a horizontal roll in the signal, and I'll have to tweak it. My family just tended to grab the recorder and record, not thinking to label the videos or cue up the tape or anything. Oh the joys of family!

[deuce8pro]

Video calibration also tends to soften the picture and sometimes that is necessary with grainer already soft video, that could help to be cleaned up of grain before encoding on the JVC, but usually it needs to be turned off.

I think it is worth your time and money to purchase a ES10 to use as a tbc/frame sync pass through/black level corrector into the drm100. Once you get it, you will have the ability to make dvds correctly with the drm100 by correcting the black level before encoding on the JVC. Both in and output set to darker.

And yes, sometimes its better to turn the TBC/DNR off on the jvc high end decks. You get a better picture that way.

Speaking of sharpness, I really urge along with getting a used es10 on ebay is to purchase some pro grade s-video cables to get the sharp playback you need of your tapes but also the cleanness and seperation of colors. I dont think people bring up how important that is to get the seperation of colors and to use these type of cables. Check them out.

[victoriabears]

I might mention that the UK ES10's can do NTSC and PAL, but of course would cost a minimum of $80 to ship and they go for about $50 minimum, and they work on 110 volt.

[lordsmurf]

Remember that the ES10 filters add a heavy posterization to image quality, so you'll end up with some color crushing in the palette. The machine is not perfect, it can add back as much as it fixes. It really depends on the tapes, and you need to select the lesser of evils in image quality The ES10 should not be part of a normal setup.

[deuce8pro]

Remember that the ES10 filters add a heavy posterization to image quality, so you'll end up with some color crushing in the palette.

Ive used this machine as a pass through on probably 200 tapes or so and maybe im not a smart guy, but I dont know what you mean by "color crushing in the palette". What are you talking about?