My Sony TV plays NTSC dvds in Black n White

[erajsri]

My Sony TV model is KV 2197 M3s and I bought it in 1999 from a local retailer. I hav bought a Sony Setup MHC-RV 990D which is capable of playing DVDs. However I find that when I play several NTSC DVDs off the Sony Setup, the picture comes in b/w. Certain DVDs though would play in full color and clarity as if there was nothing wrong and these happen to be in PAL mode.

The TV manual says that it can handle PAL / SECAM / NTSC4.43 modes. I have even tried setting to AUTO mode but still with no luck in getting to view NTSC DVDs in colour.

This is a real problem for me as I would like to know whether it is the TV I need to upgrade or if it is a dedicated DVD player that I need to buy ( since my TV already says it supports NTSC 4.43 ).

I already have hopes of buying a DivX capable DVD player but would like to know whether the problem would still be there even with a new player.
Therefore your replies would be highly appreciated.

eraj.

[guns1inger]

Does your DVD player output true NTSC or PAL60 ?

[erajsri]

Well really it says you can change the DVD output to PAL / NTSC. There is a special procedure... switching off the player and then holding a particular button.... .

However even though I changed the output colour system to PAL so as to match my TV's it still doesnt play in colour. Ive set the TV's colour system to AUTO but that doesnt even work. When I phoned my local retailer who's also the dealer for Sony here in my country, they said that NTSC 4.43 which is currently supported on my TV is not the proper one, but rather NTSC 3.58. Is this true ? Does that mean having NTSC 4.43 is not sufficient to play NTSC DVDs in colour ?

However the same thing happens when I play VCDs. There the procedure for changing the colour system in the player is done on the menu itself. But this colour change seems to work. That is, with VCDs even if they are NTSC they will play in full colour, provided I set the colour output to PAL. How can NTSC work for VCDs and not for DVDs ?

I jus want to know whether it is a prob with my TV or the Hi-Fi system ( DVD player ). I am unable to bring along and plugin any other DVD Players to ma TV so as to test it out. Please let me know the reply soon.

[guns1inger]

My understanding (and this is coming from PAL land, so excuse me if I'm not 100% accurate) is that NTSC 3.58 is the US broadcast standard. NTSC 4.34 is a modified NTSC standard that uses a sub-carrier closer to that of PAL, and was/is used often in European TVs because it is easier to implement in multi-format TVs. In most cases this should not be an issue because the DVD player should also be outputting NTSC 4.43. For VHS material recorded at 3.58 and output from the player at 3.58 you would expect to see black and white because the sub-carrier, where the colour is held, would not match the expected 4.43. For DVD this should not be an issue if the DVD player outputs NTSC 4.43.

If your DVD player outputs NTSC 3.58 then you wont get coolour, which appears to be the case here.

Again, if any of this is wrong I apologies, and I'm sure an NTSC guru will correct me pretty quickly.

[edDV]

My understanding (and this is coming from PAL land, so excuse me if I'm not 100% accurate) is that NTSC 3.58 is the US broadcast standard. NTSC 4.34 is a modified NTSC standard that uses a sub-carrier closer to that of PAL, and was/is used often in European TVs because it is easier to implement in multi-format TVs. In most cases this should not be an issue because the DVD player should also be outputting NTSC 4.43. For VHS material recorded at 3.58 and output from the player at 3.58 you would expect to see black and white because the sub-carrier, where the colour is held, would not match the expected 4.43. For DVD this should not be an issue if the DVD player outputs NTSC 4.43.

If your DVD player outputs NTSC 3.58 then you wont get coolour, which appears to be the case here.

Again, if any of this is wrong I apologies, and I'm sure an NTSC guru will correct me pretty quickly.

Another indication that the subcarrier is at the wrong frequency is a screen door fine noise pattern (high frequency) over the black and white picture. This is what we NTSC people see when PAL is played over composite or S-Video assuming the monochrome signal locks.

Chroma (color) shows as noise unless it is filtered out and decoded.

[ntscuser]

Well really it says you can change the DVD output to PAL / NTSC. There is a special procedure... switching off the player and then holding a particular button.... .

However even though I changed the output colour system to PAL so as to match my TV's it still doesnt play in colour. Ive set the TV's colour system to AUTO but that doesnt even work. When I phoned my local retailer who's also the dealer for Sony here in my country, they said that NTSC 4.43 which is currently supported on my TV is not the proper one, but rather NTSC 3.58. Is this true ? Does that mean having NTSC 4.43 is not sufficient to play NTSC DVDs in colour ?

However the same thing happens when I play VCDs. There the procedure for changing the colour system in the player is done on the menu itself. But this colour change seems to work. That is, with VCDs even if they are NTSC they will play in full colour, provided I set the colour output to PAL. How can NTSC work for VCDs and not for DVDs ?

I jus want to know whether it is a prob with my TV or the Hi-Fi system ( DVD player ). I am unable to bring along and plugin any other DVD Players to ma TV so as to test it out. Please let me know the reply soon.

It is possible that your player can convert NTSC VCDs to full PAL 625-line/50Hz standard but not DVD titles. If the latter are output in their native format your TV will not be able to decode the color.

If you have component or RGB connections of any kind use those as it makes no difference then if the colour is PAL or NTSC.

[erajsri]

I think I knda understand the situ Im in... my DVD player ( or actually the Sony Mini Hi-Fi System ) plays the DVDs in NTSC 3.58 as this is the more pure NTSC rather than using a sub carrier that is close to PAL like in 4.43 ( this is how I understand it ). Although this player outputs in Component Video I am unable to use it since my TV doesnt have Component Video or even an S-Video input.

I do not want to buy a new DVD player and risk my investment in not getting to watch DVDs in colour ( as many DVDs available here are in NTSC ). I bet the best option would be to buy a new TV that is definitely Multi System capable.

Jus one question I have in mind is that could watching NTSC DVDs on my TV render any damage to it. Quite recently I had to giv my TV to be repaired ( I do not remember which part/s I had to replace ) and Im thinking that watching too much of DVDs in b/w ( which my folks dont mind ) could hav led to this.

Anyways thanx all for the reply and thanx for clarifying that NTSC 3.58 is much more pure and thus different from NTSC 4.43

eraj.

[ntscuser]

Jus one question I have in mind is that could watching NTSC DVDs on my TV render any damage to it. Quite recently I had to giv my TV to be repaired ( I do not remember which part/s I had to replace ) and Im thinking that watching too much of DVDs in b/w ( which my folks dont mind ) could have led to this.

Not a chance.

And just to clarify, the differences between NTSC and PAL encoding go way beyond just having a different subcarrier frequency.

[erajsri]

OK to be on the safe side, if a TV says "Multi System" does that mean there wouldn't be any problem with whatever colour system DVD that is thrown at it ? I hav seen plenty of CRTs for sale with the Multi System name tag on it and if I remember correct they support upto 17 colour systems or so.

Im hoping to buy a new CRT TV that I would use primarily for TV as well as watching movies on DVDs ( as well as DivX / XVid / MPeg once I find a compatible player ). So all I need to worry about is Multi System playability and Component Video input if possible to end my B/W movie experience ?

[guns1inger]

I would buy a cheap, multi-system DVD player instead of a new TV. More than likely solve your problem. Even better, purchase on the understanding that if it doesn't work you can return it.

[erajsri]

I would buy a cheap, multi-system DVD player instead of a new TV. More than likely solve your problem. Even better, purchase on the understanding that if it doesn't work you can return it.

Well my Sony Hi-Fi is supposed to be a MultiSystem DVD player too cos there is a mechanism by which u can change the playback colour system for both DVDs and VCDs. Ive set the colour system to PAL for DVD playback and also done the same for VCD. Note that settin the playback colour system is different for the two discs ( in DVD u need to shutdown the Hi-Fi and switch on whilsit holding down a button where as for VCDs you can jus change the playback in the setup menu itself ). But strangely no matter how many times I change the playback for DVD with success it still doesnt play in colour and yet works for VCDs. This is the reason I fear that my TV may not be upto good at handling DVDs and therefore Im thinking of goin for a new TV.

Ive heard that there is a switch at the back of many standalone DVDplayers to do the job of changin the colour systems. Given you set this setting to output the playback in PAL would it really convert the signal to PAL no matter what disc u put in ? IF they can do the job without doubt then I mite as well go for a standalone DVD player ... this is the advice Im seeking rite now

eraj

[guns1inger]

I have a Pioneer which was true multi-system (native) out of the box, and an LG which was set to output PAL for all discs. The Pioneer is flawless (I would expect nothing less from them), but the LG showed all the signs of format conversion - jerkiness on the pans and zooms, and when playing back avi files, audio sync issues. Setting to output native NTSC resolved these issues.

[sleepy_monkey]

Are you using s-video to hook up the dvd player to your tv?? If one of the pins are bent on an S-video cable, it will play in black and white...so you might want to try changing cables.

[oldfolk999]

Sounded like your TV only accepts coxial cable and no other inputs, then can you buy one of those converters, accepts composite, component and s-video and output only coxial for older TVs.

[sleepy_monkey]

^^^^
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