DMR-ES25 poor PQ connection help??

[mbrose]

I have observed that the picture quality when the video signal is sent throught the DMR is poor. If I switch to the satellite input (through a receiver), the PQ is much improved. Specifically, when run through the DMR input, there is significant pixelation and ghosting effects. Not a pretty picture, and not one I like recording. This effect occurs during disc playback and viewing the live signal. I'm confused , as you'll see from my connection, the PQ should be improved through the DMR.

Components
Directv R15
Onkyo TX-304S
Panasonic DMR-ES25
Sharp LC 32DA5U (32" Aquos LCD)

Video Connection:
Coax--->Directv R15
R15---->Receiver (via composite video plug)
R15---->Panasonic DVDR (via S-video)
Receiver---->TV (via composite video plug)
Panasonic DVDR---->TV (via component video)

Audio Connection:
R15--->Panasonic DVDR (via stereo connection)
Panasonic DVDR--->Receiver (via Digital Optical)
This requires that the DVDR is "on" all the time, but allows digital output from the receiver, and I do not have to change the receiver input when changing between satellite and DMR signals.

The R15 does not have component outputs (only S-video/HDMI/composite). I have checked all connections. I have not connected the coax to the DVDR or TV (trying to get decent PQ first).

I should also mention that this occurs even if I disconnect the R15--->receiver video plug. I am aware that I could buy two HDMI and this may fix my problem, but the PQ is acceptable through the receiver....why not the DVDR??

Thanks beforehand for the help and/or suggestions

[lordsmurf]

The Panasonic LSI-chip machine temporally compress too much. You'll get posterization and trails. Be sure the filters are all turned off.

Or buy a better machine.

This is one of many reasons Panasonic is inferior to all other recorders.

It's only redeeming value is in some LSI-chipped machines, the ES10 for sure, syncs video better than others. Awesome pass-through machines for bad video. The other errors still exst, but it's the best choice of two evils.

The LSI is an excellent chip, probably the best one, but Panasonic poorly uses it.

[Werder]

I have a similar setup

DirecTV HR20-700 ->SVideo->DMR-ES25->HDMI->Sony55A2000

I assume you compare PQ with HD programming, because DireTV SD PQ is so poor that it wouldn't be a test for any recorders PQ.

HD programming I record with HR20 set to 16x9 (ES25 shows compressed picture during recording), rip to a PC and change the format from 4x3 to 16x9 and burn back to DVD. Result is screen filling and phantasic PQ (for SD). Though PQ is not as good as the original HD I think it rivals the PQ of any good SD commercial DVD.

The DMR-ES25 is my fifth DVD recorder (DMR-80H, JVC DR-M10, plus 2 cheapo recorders) and it is by far the most rewarding DVD recorder purchase - not perfect but close to it.

HDMI cables: I'm using $30 cables from Walmart - work perfect even with my 1080p output player. There are even cheaper sources... check e.g. Blue Jeans Cables.

[mbrose]

Lordsmurf....thanks for the info (see what I get when I make splurge purchase (without the usual research.)

Werder...unfortunately I was comparing it to SD Directv feed. That is the problem. I concur even the Directv SD leaves much to be desired, but I would almost be happy with similar. I believe I may have a bad SVHS , combined with what Lordsmurf mentioned. While the Directv HD feed is nowhere near acceptable, I do enjoy it on my 54" HD Sony. I'm still calling customer service to get a deal on a HR20.

Thanks for the lead on HDMI cables - Radio Shack doesn't compare on prices! While I have some capital, my wife controls most of it.... I'm thankful to have the Panasonic DVDR.

[Werder]

mbrose - I looked through my old SD DirecTV recordings...

DMR-80H has a noticable PQ drop (2 hr mode)
Liteon 05 faint drop in PQ (2 hr mode)
JVC DR-M10 and E25 looks to me like the original (2 hr mode)

What recording mode are you using?

HD feeds I record in 1 hr mode on the E25.

BTW the only reason I got the HR20 is to be able to see the local HD channels encoded in mpeg4. The national HD channels are encoded in a different way and my HR20 has a nasty flaw: every minute or so there is a nasty loud audio chirp - I'm not interested in these channels so I can live with it. SD and HD-mpeg4 channels are OK. Also the HR20 has DirecTVs own DVR software which isn't even close in operating elegance as the Tivo implementation on the previous DirecTV DVRs.

[mbrose]

I'm using the 2 hour mode and FR. Right now I'm just trying to get a decent live picture from the E25. I can't expect the recorded quality to improve until I can get the live video better. It just looks much better through the Onkyo right now, even if the Onkyo is on composite.

Last night, I viewed a commercial DVD through the E25, and compared it to my Pio DVD (DV 393-S) player. A slight difference in quality (better through the Pio) - which may be expected.

The satellite video through the E25 is significantly worse than when I send the satellite video through the amplifier. I'm leaning towards a bad S-video cable and some expected loss through the conversion. I'm also going to change my setup to the following.

Video:

R15--->E25 (new S-video cable)
E25---->TV (HDMI)

R15--->TV (Composite)



Audio
R15--->E25 (RCA R/W)
E25--->Onkyo (Digital Audio)

R15--->Onkyo (Digital Audio)

I'm waiting to get a deal on the HR20, although I am concerned with the comments over on dbstalk. I have the H20 right now (connected to a Sony KP-51WS510) - which has had minimal problems. Fortunately, I've had little problems with either (H20 or R15). We tend to spend most of the time watching the R15/Sharp, not the H20/Sony...because of the recording capability and location. Now if I had a HR20...

Edit: Are you using both video outputs on the HR20? I may be wrong, but I believe both are active at the same time on the HR20 - is the R15 the same?. I'm wondering if I have a problem because I'm using both video outputs.???

[Werder]

Yes, I'm using 2 outputs at the same time on the HR20.

Componet output directly to the TV and
S-Video into ES25 (and from there via HDMI to the TV)

[mbrose]

Last night, I changed the S-video (one of the many free ones I have from Directv) to composite. What was interesting was when I used another "new" Directv S-video cable, it was like 1970s reception with bunny ears and aluminum foil. That indicated to me that maybe the original S-video may be bad. Thanks for the quality cables DTV!

I put the composite out from the Directv receiver to the DVDR...and voila - an improved picture. Not perfect, but better. Then adjusted the TV video settings (sharpness, lighting, etc). The end result was better black level, and improved (vibrant?) color overall. The remaining deficiency appears to be just from the standard definition picture and lack of HDMI. I believe the Panny with component out may just expose the PQ of standard definition. I hope the HDMI and further TV setting adjustment helps with the remaining PQ. When I get the time, I'll try my H-20 Hi-def feed again as well.
( I really need to organize the cables back there!!)

Lordsmurf - I can see the limitations of the Panny chip, as it does not like to take 480i and make a 480p picture as currently configured. The better the quality input, the better quality output at least when trying to upconvert (and when making a component signal). I can soften the picture to reduce the appearance of the artifacts, but then you lose other attributes. The Onkyo does a better job of minimizing artifact, even if is just used as a pass through (little signal loss). The color level and black level are improved with the E25 though.

Any suggestions on a test pattern to setup the Sharp?