Lines appear on video captured

[jimrak]

Hi all,

I am new to all this, so please bear with me.

I bought and set-up a Kworld V-Stream Xpert DVD Maker USB 2.0. I have it set up using S-video from the digital cable box (Comcast Motorola box) to the USB capture device to the 2.0 PCI card.

The problem is the video has these slanted lines in it no matter what software I use. The broadcast as shown on the TV is fine, but the capture shows these lines. below are pics as examples of the lines.



I changed the set-up from the the source being the Cable box to the VCR and get the same results. I changed the crappy software that came with the capture card to VirtualVCR, but the lines appear when using that software too.

The PC I am using is a P4, 2.4G, 512MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 (with tv out) card, Digital LCD attached to digital connection on video card, and running WindowsXP Pro.

Does anyone know what can cause these lines? any ideas of what I can doI can do to make these lines disappear?

Thanks in advance,

Jim

[canadateck]

EDIT////Not sure


Maybe some kind of interference.

[jimrak]

Sorry, I didn't know the tags needed to post pics. I should have read the instructions first.

The lines are slanted as shown in the pic shown in the edit of my original post.

any ideas/suggestions? Thanks again!

[non-linear]

What kind of connection are you using to the computer? coax, RCA or S-Video? Have you tried using different cables to see if one is bad? It could also be interference in or around your computer or from the VCR to the computer.

[jimrak]

Hi,

I am using S-video to the capture device, and RCA for audio. The capture device has a S-Video on one end (from VCR) and USB 2.0 on the other, which is plugged directly into the 2.0 PCI USB card in the computer.

I have changed all the cables and get the same result. I am thinking it is inteference either because the the cable box and VCR are drawing from the same source and reducing the signal, or possibly some type of intefernce around the PC as you suggest possible. Would it be electrical connection inteference or what? What could be things I can do to either fix it, or rule some things out? Are there filters or something I should be using?

Any help will be appreciated,

Jim

[hexxisoft]

it appears to be interference of some kind

[edDV]

I agree, its some kind of analog interference. If you don't see it on a monitor using the same S-Video cable, then it is happening in the capture device.

Try moving the capture device away from monitors, the computer and other sources of RF interference.

[INFRATOM]

I tell you from my experience because I haven't messed with my ATI video card for a while. The TV tuner has some adjustments and some lower channels don't tune correctly and you get those lines but not on upper channels. Try some other channel see if you have those lines then look see if you have a fine tune in your tuner setup. Hope this helps

[INFRATOM]

Oh .. I didn't read your question exactly, you are connected to svideo .. so you must have RCA connection too, make sure that one is not connected some of these output sources if you connect to more than one could get a feed back. eg when I connect svideo to projector and RCA to TV I get the some fogging type of scan distortion. So try one connection out of your box only .. I know you want to watch TV at the same time too but try to see if that is the problem. As I previously said try some upper channels too. good luck

[edDV]

If he takes the same S-Video cable and plugs it into a monitor input and the interference is not there, then the capture device is causing the problem.

[jimrak]

Hey thanks Guys for all your comments! I have done alot already to try and isolate the problem and will follow your advice between now and the weekend.

So far I think the inteference has been isolated after the VCR. I disconnected everything, then connected RCA composite video from Cable box to VCR, from VCR to TV. No lines appeared. I disconnect the TV then connected the same RCA to the capture device. the lines again appeared, and was much darker than when I used the S-Video.

I repeated the same procedure with the S-video. No lines when the S-video was connected to TV, but the lines shown in the pic above reappeared when connected to the capture device.

So it does not appear to be a problem from the cable box to the VCR. it seems the problem could be going into the PCI card. The PCI card is located next to the Video card in the PC. could this cause inteference?

I will also try a different connection - From TV to capture device, to PC. One other thing - the Cable box, audio receiver, DVD player and VCR are stacked onto each other and sit directly in front of the Tripp-lite Isobar Surge Suppressor to which everything (except the PC) is plugged in. I am thinking this could be the source of inteference too. But then again, if it was, I would suspect the lines would appear on the TV too as well as the capture on the PC. Maybe I should relocate this?

I will post again after I try all these things. Thanks again for your suggestions, and if anyone can think of anything else that might help or point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it!

Jim

[Abond]

Well,you may find this useful:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=f38bf39b7b105ca7ef61020ef4cb05ce&threadid=92478

[jimrak]

Hi again,

thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. I have tried everything, but still have the problem. HOWEVER, I have been able to rule out many things and it appears the problem is isolated to the PC.

I disconnected the capture card USB plug from my PC and connected it to my laptop. Ran the program and absolutely NO LINES!!! the capture is perfect!!! So it appears the problem is not in the cables, or the capture card.

I opened the PC case, blew out all the dust and relocated the USB 2.0 PCI card. put everything together, and still get lines in the capture when using the PC.

I could use the laptop to capture, but there are no audio inputs, other than the microphone (. so that would be useless.

Supposedly the USB 2.0 PCI card drivers are up to date (according to winXP). Anyone have any ideas as to what adjustments, or whatever can be done to the PC to make the capture as clear as I get it on the laptop?

any help will be greatly appreciated! Thanks again all,

Jim

[pfh]

Have you tried enabling rf modulation setting in BIOS?

[jimrak]

Have you tried enabling rf modulation setting in BIOS?

Hi, Thanks for the suggestion. can you tell me how to do that? I'll try anything!

Thanks,

Jim

[pfh]

The following was taken from the excellant BIOS guide written by Adrian Rojak Pot, a must read for all IMO. This setting is in BIOS so you must enter your bios pages upon boot. Refer to your mobo manual for how to do this. A lot of 'em use the del key during boot up.

"Spread Spectrum

Common Options : 0.25%, 0.5%, Smart Clock, Disabled

Quick Review

This BIOS feature allows you to reduce the EMI of your motherboard by modulating the signals it generates so that the spikes are reduced to flatter curves. It achieves this by varying the frequency slightly so that the signal does not use any particular frequency for more than a moment.

The BIOS usually offers two levels of modulation - 0.25% or 0.5%. The greater the modulation, the greater the reduction of EMI. Therefore, if you need to significantly reduce your motherboard's EMI, a modulation of 0.5% is recommended.

In most conditions, frequency modulation via this feature should not cause any problems. However, system stability may be slightly compromised in certain situations. For example, this BIOS feature may cause improper functioning of timing-critical devices like clock-sensitive SCSI devices.

Spread Spectrum can also cause problems with overclocked systems, especially those that have been taken to extremes. Even a slight modulation of frequency may cause the processor or any other overclocked components of the system to fail, leading to very predictable consequences.

Therefore, it is recommended that you disable this feature if you are overclocking your system. The risk of crashing your system is not worth the reduction in EMI. Of course, if EMI reduction is important to you, enable this feature by all means. But you should reduce the clock speed a little to provide a margin of safety.

Some BIOSes also offer a Smart Clock option. Instead of modulating the frequency of signals over time, Smart Clock turns off the AGP, PCI and SDRAM clock signals that are not in use. Therefore, EMI can be reduced without compromising system stability. As a bonus, using Smart Clock also helps reduce power consumption. The degree of EMI and power reduction will depend on the number of empty AGP, PCI and SDRAM slots. But generally, Smart Clock won't be able to reduce EMI as effectively as simple frequency modulation.

With that said, it is recommended that you enable Smart Clock, instead of the 0.25% or 5% option, if the option is available to you. It allows you to reduce some EMI without any risk of compromising your computer's stability."

[jimrak]

The following was taken from the excellant BIOS guide written by Adrian Rojak Pot, a must read for all IMO. This setting is in BIOS so you must enter your bios pages upon boot. Refer to your mobo manual for how to do this. A lot of 'em use the del key during boot up.

"Spread Spectrum

Common Options : 0.25%, 0.5%, Smart Clock, Disabled

Thanks again for the good info. Problem is, I went into the BIOS last night and could not find anything for spread spectrum, RF Modulation, or anything that looked related. I'm not about to give up yet, but dang, this is so frustrating!!!

[MikeV]

Have you tried a new PC power supply? Most power supplies that come with system cases are very cheap and have poor filtering(even brand name computers use cheap power supplies). The high frequencies generated by the switching PS and not very well shielded case or filtered lines could be causing your problem. The new see through plastic multi-color, glowing, lighted power supplies are worse. Find a good all metal case PS without the extra cooling fans and good filtering. Someone stated in another forum that the Antec 420w PS was well filtered.

[Nelson37]

Excellent troubleshooting procedure.

You have now isolated the problem to the PC itself. Next step? There is a good chance the problem is the USB card itself, plus they are cheap. I would start with that, also did you try moving it as far as possible from the power supply and video card, in fact it is worth a shot to try every available slot. Also disconnect all drives possible, remove all other cards in pc, disconnect audio cables. Some of these things are low odds possibilities but the mantra is Isolate and Identify. I have seen a faulty -though otherwise working OK - hard drive cause a similar problem.

Next would be the Power supply, as with the USB card, fairly cheap and easy to install. See if you can purchase and return, you may end up with a store credit but you need some DVD blanks anyway, right?

Make sure and test with ALL other electrical devices turned off AND physically unplugged. A nearby flourescent light or fan could be the problem. It could be that surge protector.

Note from someone who lives in Southwest Florida, the Lightning Strike Capital of the World - IMO, Tripplite sucks. I buy and recommend nothing but APC.

Definitely try a range of channels as suggested. Could be isolated to a few distinct channels.

[INFRATOM]

It looks like electrical interference. Where do you locate your capture device? compare it to laptop. is your capture device next to a speaker? , anything with radio frequency cordless phone base ? change electrical outlet. when you use laptop are you away from your other system ?
By the way on your laptop if you go to control panel > sound & audio then select audio tab and see what options do you have for your recording device and select line in instead of mic, until you find the electrical interference. good luck

[tigerman8u]

After switching from digital cable to digital satellite I got these lines in my tv when I played my dvd player? After trying several things I used a different composite video cable and it went away. Maybe heavier shielding in the new cable?

[jimrak]

Hi everyone and thanks for all your suggestions. I just replaced the CPU Power supply, the P4 cooling fan, and the fan cooled envidia video card. the lines are still there.

I am almost certain it is some setting (bios or maybe with the video card) but am totally clueless as to what to look for. TRhere is nothing in the vacinity of the CPU to give RF inteference, at least I dont think so. nothing except the power jack it is plugged into, and other things like the monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc.,. connected to the CPU.

Anyway, if anyone has any ideas, I will certainly try ANYTHING to get rid of these lines so I can enjoy recording!

Thanks!!!

Jim

[justinluck]

Hi Jimrak,

It looks like we may be having similar problems. I'll let you know if I ever resolve my issue!

Justin

[justinluck]

Update:

I just checked my AwardBIOS and found an option for Spread Spectrum. Unfortunately, this option was already enabled...

No specific settings were allowed, just enabled or disabled. I figure disabling it will just make the situation worse.

[jimrak]

yeah, I checked my BIOS and cant find Spread Spectrum there. This is so annoying! I am sure it is something simple, but we just cant find it yet!

[SLK001]

You have a power issue. Ripple is getting through to your card, either from the DC power lines, or the grounds. You didn't have this problem on the laptop because I'm assuming that it was battery powered - thus no AC ripple current and no ground loop.

From your experiments, I would suggest that you try to minimize your ground loop currents.

How old is the place you are living in?

[wayne421]

I agree that it looks like powerline interference. You can try buying a UPS/power line filter that 'cleans' incoming power to the PC. Sometimes 'dirty' power from the wall outlet can cause that kind of interference.

Staples, CompUSA, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc, all have these units. Good brands run $50+ but it's a worthwhile investment.

Good luck,

-W-

[jimrak]

ok, I think I finally figured it out!!! First, the laptop was plugged into the same surge protector as the PC. So I once again tried capturing on both the laptop and PC. laptop no lines, PC once again lines.

Then for some reason I switched the PC video from the digital (DVI) to the VGA port on my video card. guess what?

SUCCESS!!! When using the VGA port, the picture is perfect, no lines, no problems at all!!!

Justin, maybe this will help you too?

Once again everyone, thanks for all your suggestions. by following them it helped me rule out many things and zero in on the problem!!!

Jim

[lordsmurf]

<nevermind>

[justinluck]

That is great news Jim!!

Unfortunately, I have an analog CRT, so there is nothing switch.